European Tour: Johnnie Walker Championship @ Gleneagles

First topic message reminder :

After two great European wins in US we're back this week (without the two winners, unfortunately) on the Europeant Tour with the Johnnie Walker Championship at Gleneagles. And as we've heard many times already over the past week or so, it's all about Ryder Cup (well, almost all...). The tournament was moved only recently (since 2007) to the end of August and has been indirectly linked eversince with the Ryder Cup as being the last ET event counting for the European RC team selection. And surprise, surprise, to the organisers' delight, no doubt, this had an immediate effect on the tournament's field strength...

Spoiler:

Can you guess which are the Ryder Cup years...?

Talking about the Ryder Cup, there is, of course, also a direct connection with Gleneagles, as this is the venue for the next edition organised in Europe in 2014. I'm not sure if the Johnnie Walker tournament will still be organised on the same course just before the Ryder Cup that year, but if it will, I wouldn't be surprised at all if it turns out to be one of the best fields in its history.

But going back to this week's event, Captain Olly is in the field, of course, and apart from his game he'll be keeping a close eye on how guys like N. Colsaerts, R. Cabrera-Bello and D. Lynn will perform. As we've been discussing already, the field strength this year is probably even more relevant than in other years, and some of the late withdrawals from the initial field are already having an impact on what will or could have happened. As it stands now, it looks that the winner will receive 30 owgr points and at this level Colsaerts needs a 3-way tie for 2nd or better (solo 3rd is not enough) to move ahead of Kaymer (just in case there is some last minute WD and the field strength drops to 28 points then he'll need a 2-way tie for 2nd or better). Unfortunately, if the field strength would've stayed at 32 points (as it was just a few days ago, before P. Hanson WD), both Cabrerra-Bello and Lynn would still have the chance to overcome Kaymer in the World Points Standings with a win, but as it is now they've no chance, and in fact Lynn will end up only ~0.7 points short, should he win... I just came across this piece that confirms the regrets that David Lynn feels now after choosing not to stay one week longer in US (as smart Colsaerts did) and play Greensboro, despite being pressed on that by Harrington, who ended up giving him a lift to NY in his private jet...

http://www.espnstar.com/golf/news/detail/item841473/Lynn-regrets-not-staying-on-in-US/

Anyway, whatever happened, happened and this is the situation we're in now... Apart from those mentioned, the next three in line in the RC qualification standings are also in the field (Bjorn, Siem and Dyson) and although no one gives them any realistic chance, a win here could bring any of them right behind Colsaerts and... you never know...

It should be an interesting and intriguig weekend, no doubt...

Deliberately miss the point?

You said "American aren't very good at international team sports". Do you deny that?

Jeez ... as ill informed as I believe that thought is, no need to back peddle.

Actually Shotrock I said that America aren't very good at international team sport in which they compete as America against other nations, whilst American's by and large don't have an appetite for much other than domestically competed sport, therefore what sports they do compete as as a nation are fairly small fry and do not appear much on the radar of American sports fans.

You chose to read it as you wanted to read it.

kwinigolfer wrote:I played football with a Bay City Roller once.
Probably a lowlight in his career as well as mine.

Perhaps they're pushing Chicago out in their wheelchairs because they still think "every day's the Fourth Of July".

Given their "music" that's perfectly understandable Kwini and I'm sure any judge would pardon you.

Shotrock, super_,

Americans don't play team sports, period, anything like as much as most British men (not sure about women).

The whole essence of club sports is relatively non-existent in the States, at least to the extent per capita that it is prevalent in Britain.

Then the US golf journos treat "team bonding" as if it's something they have to artificially create every "Cup" event: "Ooh, Phil's playing Tiger at ping pong. Matt Kuchar beat them both" sort of thing. Almost as if a table-tennis table was as important to the American team room as a humidor, a case of and a few crates of and are to the Europeans.
('Course, if "tennis table" was that important to US success they'd grant Freddie Jac citizenship overnight.)


Shotrock,
Camaraderie among US mens' sports teams competing internationally often seems very artificial, the debate about their success probably starts and ends with basketball. Think it's all grass roots really.
But then you could say we compete with esprit de corps and a conspicuous lack of international success - fortunately there always seems to be one sport whose star is in the ascendancy, seldom more than one or two unfortunately!

Kwin - What? I've lived in America my whole life and played almost nothing but team sports!

And I'm not an anomaly (after all I had to play with others on the team) - Baseball into college, basketball through high school, football through grade school, curling to this day. Almost every day after school (well into high school) I had a team related activity in South Utica.

Shotrock, I think you are living up to the American stereotype of being thick.

Yes, American's play team sport, but not really on an international scale against other nations at a level which captures the public imagination on a national scale.

Sr,

But not much after College - of course it's popular in schools and unis, but there's no equivalent of club cricket, club rugby, the football pitches laid out back-to-back-to-back-to-back in their hundreds.

Are there exceptions? Of course, but they are few and far between; you may curl, but doubt you have more than one club per major city.
Probably club hockey and work's basketball and softball is the closest, but even then they're the exception rather than the rule, certainly in comparison with Britain.

My son's sports mad yet there's no organized sports teams in the area except basketball. Golf clubs don't play competitively as a team to anything like the extent they do in Britain.
What happens to all these football players when they're spat out by high schools and colleges because they're not good enough to turn pro? When was the last time I saw an amateur (American) football game? Not sure I ever have.

You're as well travelled and open-minded as any American, but would just ask you to consider that I don't make this stuff up! Smartest guy I ever worked for never used to hire someone unless they played competitive sport as a pastime. Good policy I always thought.

Sad to see the report of Ramon Sota's death.

One of the stalwarts of European Golf even before the formal birth of the European Tour, and of course mentor to his nephew, Seve. Actually invited to The Masters a few times (6th in 1965) when invites to Europeans were rarer than abortions in Mississippi.

Kwin - I have a friend who plays in a course outside London, and has done so for 10 years. He claims there is nowhere near the level of interclub that there was when he lived outside Philly and played in GAP events. (www.gapgolf.org) I think the GAP team matches are the largest amateur golf event in the US and I'll get the number of participants so we can see how they might compare in the UK. Not sure I would buy fully into your conclusion.

Super - On any allegation you make, I truly consider the source!

I expect there's more Philly footie than on the fields at Purley Way also . . . .

The basic premise of s_r's point that American's (let's say above the age of 23) play far less team sport than their European counterparts is indisputably true - as for the rest, I tossed out a bone but no nibbles!

Shotrock, I have lost the place with the exact issue which you guys are debating but the thing that struck me is a point that hasn't been well enough made so far...

the big difference is that in UK every half assed town, almost every pub has a footaball team that plays in a league against other teams from that town every weekend, they might have rugby and darts teams too depending on the size of the town or city. The closest thing I can think of that the US have to that is bowling teams and leagues... when we get to bowling and darts we are really stretching the use of the word sport though.

THe point that SR is conveniently and deliberately missing is that America do not play any team sports on the international stage as America that galvinates the nation on any sort of significant supporting/spectating level, hence why they go so utterley bananas in something like the Ryder Cup when they get the excuse to chant the unimaginative and worn out U.S.A chant ad nauseum, because there is hardly another event where they are able to.

SR - You're wrong.

I never commented on any sort of "galvinizing" impact US international team sports has on the "nation". I'll leave the desire to classify and label that to others. Go crazy on that front.

What I've always commented on are your allegations that the US doesn't "compete in International team sports competitions, at least one which they do dominate". That statement is a complete inaccuracy.

Actually, I'm convinced you know it is, too.

Shotrock, you do make a professional habit of misinterpreting my point.

For clarification I have never said that America don't compete in international sport. What I have said is that America, in major sports don't compete as America in a sport which captures the national imagination or which galvinises the nation in a spectator/viewer fashion.

Keep misinterpreting if you like, but Kwini, who has lived on both sides of the atlantic, can confirm that American's don't really follow American's playing international sport, it's all very insular with the domestic leagues.

princedracula wrote:Talking about the Ryder Cup, there is, of course, also a direct connection with Gleneagles, as this is the venue for the next edition organised in Europe in 2014. I'm not sure if the Johnnie Walker tournament will still be organised on the same course just before the Ryder Cup that year, but if it will, I wouldn't be surprised at all if it turns out to be one of the best fields in its history.

There's the answer to that...

http://www.europeantour.com/europeantour/season=2013/tournamentid=2013066/news/newsid=182230.html#johnnie+walker+championship+gleneagles+plans+future

Not unexpected decision, of course, but would be interesting to see what the field for the Gleneagles event would look like in 2013... Tom Watson said that he'd like the US RC players to play that course before the 2014 RC. Interestingly, next year's tournament clashes with The Barclays/Playoffs on the PGAT, so can't see any of the top US players coming to Scotland instead...

What a shame that they can't see fit to relocate for just one year . . . . . . .

princedracula wrote:Tom Watson said that he'd like the US RC players to play that course before the 2014 RC. Interestingly, next year's tournament clashes with The Barclays/Playoffs on the PGAT, so can't see any of the top US players coming to Scotland instead...

Er... so is that Europe 1 up already?

Skydriver wrote:

princedracula wrote:Tom Watson said that he'd like the US RC players to play that course before the 2014 RC. Interestingly, next year's tournament clashes with The Barclays/Playoffs on the PGAT, so can't see any of the top US players coming to Scotland instead...

Er... so is that Europe 1 up already?

Depends if you think any of the top Euro players will go there rather than The Barclays either