JEFF vs Rabo

by HERSH Sun 02 Sep 2012, 6:59 pm

First topic message reminder :

IMO there is only one winner and this weekend proved it once again. Very Happy

Thank God for the Jeff. thumbsup

Full strength teams playing with passion, aggression and skill, thats what the paying public want to see not 2nd/3rd/youth teams turning up to fulfill a fixture. thumbsdown

What do you think

by beshocked Mon 03 Sep 2012, 11:36 am

Portnoy wrote:The Saints final was the real demonstration of it 'shocked.

Mind you Saints were paper thin in depth to fight on two fronts and overextended their limited resources.

Agree with that. Tactical naivety on Saints part - too much reliance on their 1st XV in that final. It's pretty tough when the best side in Europe has fresh legs to bring on.

Leinster fans can't deny that the management of their key players like BOD,Sexton,SOB has really helped them in the HC.

by caoimhincentre Mon 03 Sep 2012, 11:39 am

beshocked wrote:
Portnoy wrote:The Saints final was the real demonstration of it 'shocked.

Mind you Saints were paper thin in depth to fight on two fronts and overextended their limited resources.

Agree with that. Tactical naivety on Saints part - too much reliance on their 1st XV in that final. It's pretty tough when the best side in Europe has fresh legs to bring on.

Leinster fans can't deny that the management of their key players like BOD,Sexton,SOB has really helped them in the HC.

Also cant deny Leinster finished top of the league that year also though.

by LeinsterFan4life Mon 03 Sep 2012, 11:40 am

beshocked wrote:
Portnoy wrote:The Saints final was the real demonstration of it 'shocked.

Mind you Saints were paper thin in depth to fight on two fronts and overextended their limited resources.

Agree with that. Tactical naivety on Saints part - too much reliance on their 1st XV in that final. It's pretty tough when the best side in Europe has fresh legs to bring on.

Leinster fans can't deny that the management of their key players like BOD,Sexton,SOB has really helped them in the HC.

BOD was injured for most of the season. SOB played with an injury for most of the season so he wasnt managed well ,as he is now out until december. Sexton played over 30 games last season so cant really be expected to play any more or can he?

by gowales Mon 03 Sep 2012, 11:41 am

Sexton wasn't really established as Ireland's first choice 10 though was he?

by HammerofThunor Mon 03 Sep 2012, 12:16 pm

beshocked wrote:
Portnoy wrote:The Saints final was the real demonstration of it 'shocked.

Mind you Saints were paper thin in depth to fight on two fronts and overextended their limited resources.

Agree with that. Tactical naivety on Saints part - too much reliance on their 1st XV in that final. It's pretty tough when the best side in Europe has fresh legs to bring on.

Leinster fans can't deny that the management of their key players like BOD,Sexton,SOB has really helped them in the HC.

Something that is rarely remember about Saints is that was their third season in the Premiership. Given the standard length of pro-contracts I doubt the squad they had then was planed for HEC winning. Their 1st 15 was very good and then there was a drop off. In the years since then they've been strengthening their squad. We'll see how they do in the long run.

by ScarletSpiderman Mon 03 Sep 2012, 12:32 pm

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:It could be an issue if Scarlets scrape into the playoffs & another team misses out if they had to play eg. A proper Leinster side.

The Scarlets missed out on the Play-offs last season by three points. We had to play Ulster without any of our welsh players (playing aus in a pointless friendly the day after) and lost by a few points. That would have given us our three points we needed. SO it is all swings and roundabouts.

by Jenifer McLadyboy Mon 03 Sep 2012, 12:48 pm

This thread is just typical of the mindset that is behind the PRL bluffing about pulling out of the HC.

"It can't be our fault that we're not winning, hmmmmm, oh yeah Leinster they keep winning, they must have some unfair advantage. Let's whinge about that instead of making our teams better".

Hersh's mindset.
"My team not doing to well despite a millionaire owner what will I do? Get behind them and support them? No I'll just find someone else to blame and keep starting threads to pi$$ everyone off/get attention. Hmmmmm. Leinster they seem to be able to top their league and win the HC.....They must be cheating!"

Why don't you just concern yourself with Bath. Focus your attention on the positive rather than the negative. Surely Bath can't be that bad?

As regards Leinster. I reckon some arsekickings need to get handed out. That kind of a beating is not acceptable from any Leinster team no matter who is in the jersey.

Might just build a chip on the shoulder for the Scarlets in the HC....Hopefully

Joe was very careful last year to get off to a decent start as we left ourselves a lot to do to catch Munster in the league the previous season. So hopefully we can win the next 3 or 4.

by BigTrevsbigmac Mon 03 Sep 2012, 12:51 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
BigTrevsbigmac wrote:It could be an issue if Scarlets scrape into the playoffs & another team misses out if they had to play eg. A proper Leinster side.

The Scarlets missed out on the Play-offs last season by three points. We had to play Ulster without any of our welsh players (playing aus in a pointless friendly the day after) and lost by a few points. That would have given us our three points we needed. SO it is all swings and roundabouts.

Yes I see that but 2 wrongs don't make a right. It isn't true competition is it?

Most posters agreed that Wales v Australia was a pointless game other than to swell the coffers of the WRU.

by HammerofThunor Mon 03 Sep 2012, 12:52 pm

Why don't you just concern yourself with Bath.

Perhaps you haven't noticed this but HERSH is a bit of cheeky chappy and like to wind people up. Focusing on Bath would be a bit boring (well it is Bath)

by ScarletSpiderman Mon 03 Sep 2012, 12:52 pm

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:This thread is just typical of the mindset that is behind the PRL bluffing about pulling out of the HC.

"It can't be our fault that we're not winning, hmmmmm, oh yeah Leinster they keep winning, they must have some unfair advantage. Let's whinge about that instead of making our teams better".

Hersh's mindset.
"My team not doing to well despite a millionaire owner what will I do? Get behind them and support them? No I'll just find someone else to blame and keep starting threads to pi$$ everyone off/get attention. Hmmmmm. Leinster they seem to be able to top their league and win the HC.....They must be cheating!"

Why don't you just concern yourself with Bath. Focus your attention on the positive rather than the negative. Surely Bath can't be that bad?

As regards Leinster. I reckon some arsekickings need to get handed out. That kind of a beating is not acceptable from any Leinster team no matter who is in the jersey.

Might just build a chip on the shoulder for the Scarlets in the HC....Hopefully

Joe was very careful last year to get off to a decent start as we left ourselves a lot to do to catch Munster in the league the previous season. So hopefully we can win the next 3 or 4.

Fingers crossed it will give the Scarlets a chance to believe they can actually compete with your lot in the HEC too. All we need now is to beat Munster (which would be first time since '08 or something dull).

P.S. This result is just because you said you were not nervous about playing us anymore as the big point wins for the Scarlets were in way back in '07 Run

by Jenifer McLadyboy Mon 03 Sep 2012, 12:56 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
P.S. This result is just because you said you were not nervous about playing us anymore as the big point wins for the Scarlets were in way back in '07

I was very fcuking nervous when I saw the teams. Still thought we would put up a better show. Tackling was shocking from Carr and the 2 centres.

Not taking from your win (well not too much) that was a proper hiding. I'll be over for the HC game in Oct where hopefully we can return the favour.

Nervous about Exeter after this weekend too.

by HammerofThunor Mon 03 Sep 2012, 12:58 pm

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:
P.S. This result is just because you said you were not nervous about playing us anymore as the big point wins for the Scarlets were in way back in '07

I was very fcuking nervous when I saw the teams. Still thought we would put up a better show. Tackling was shocking from Carr and the 2 centres.

Not taking from your win (well not too much) that was a proper hiding. I'll be over for the HC game in Oct where hopefully we can return the favour.

Nervous about Exeter after this weekend too.

Why? Surely you wouldn't put out such a weakened side in the proper competition?

by Jenifer McLadyboy Mon 03 Sep 2012, 12:58 pm

HammerofThunor wrote:
Why don't you just concern yourself with Bath.

Perhaps you haven't noticed this but HERSH is a bit of cheeky chappy and like to wind people up. Focusing on Bath would be a bit boring (well it is Bath)

Ah I've noticed OK. (How could you not) A lot of the time it is funny, sometimes pathetic, but a bit like a kid telling the same joke the whole time it just gets boring after a while.

by Jenifer McLadyboy Mon 03 Sep 2012, 1:01 pm

HammerofThunor wrote:
Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:
P.S. This result is just because you said you were not nervous about playing us anymore as the big point wins for the Scarlets were in way back in '07

I was very fcuking nervous when I saw the teams. Still thought we would put up a better show. Tackling was shocking from Carr and the 2 centres.

Not taking from your win (well not too much) that was a proper hiding. I'll be over for the HC game in Oct where hopefully we can return the favour.

Nervous about Exeter after this weekend too.

Why? Surely you wouldn't put out such a weakened side in the proper competition?

That's the beauty of sport. Exeter can turn over our best team on the day if we don't get our heads right and they do. Even in the RDS.

by HERSH Mon 03 Sep 2012, 1:01 pm

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:
Hersh's mindset.
"My team not doing to well despite a millionaire owner what will I do? Get behind them and support them? No I'll just find someone else to blame and keep starting threads to pi$$ everyone off/get attention. Hmmmmm. Leinster they seem to be able to top their league and win the HC.....They must be cheating!"

This isn't about Bath!

Why bring that up? Is it to deflect away from a very fair important question that is affecting our domestic game in the NH?

Please put your personel dislike of me to one side for a moment.

The English and French clubs will pull out of the HC and it will only be a matter of time before Sky /money pullout too.

France and England’s populations are far bigger than that of the Rabo teams put together, do you think big companies sponsor events out of the goodness of their hearts or because they want exposure to the biggest audiences possible?

by red_stag Mon 03 Sep 2012, 1:10 pm

Hersh, lets assume for the minute that Leinster have indeed "thrown the match".

So what? Scarlets are happy - they got points. Leinster are happy - they are keeping the conveyour belt moving. Hersh is happy - he went fishing today and caught a few beauts!!

Everyone's a winner Very Happy

by Jenifer McLadyboy Mon 03 Sep 2012, 1:16 pm

HERSH wrote:
Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:
Hersh's mindset.
"My team not doing to well despite a millionaire owner what will I do? Get behind them and support them? No I'll just find someone else to blame and keep starting threads to pi$$ everyone off/get attention. Hmmmmm. Leinster they seem to be able to top their league and win the HC.....They must be cheating!"

This isn't about Bath!

Why bring that up? Is it to deflect away from a very fair important question that is affecting our domestic game in the NH?

Please put your personel dislike of me to one side for a moment.

The English and French clubs will pull out of the HC and it will only be a matter of time before Sky /money pullout too.

France and England’s populations are far bigger than that of the Rabo teams put together, do you think big companies sponsor events out of the goodness of their hearts or because they want exposure to the biggest audiences possible?

I don't have a personal dislike of you. I've never met you. I find your negativity and constant harping on about the same shyte over and over and over again a bit tiresome at times, and you can't expect people to take you seriously when you constantly do this. Just because you decide to be serious.

Why would you give a rat's ass whether Leinster rotate players or whatever your latest thing is? I couldn't give a flip what Bath do with their players. If the premiership decide to have no relegation and play the under 12s in half their league games that's grand. Let them at it.

If the 6 unions hammer out some kind of compromise to placate the 2 biggest ones that's ok too. If the 2 biggest ones take their ball and feck off so be it. It will be a pity for all the teams in all the unions and all the fans worldwide who love the HC.

by HERSH Mon 03 Sep 2012, 1:19 pm

You missed one Red!

I suspect there were a few people who made some money out of it too by betting that the European Champions and Rabo runners up would lose their 1st game to a lower ranked Scarlets team.

I'd imagine they were happy as they went and picked up their winnings today.

by Jenifer McLadyboy Mon 03 Sep 2012, 1:21 pm

HERSH wrote:You missed one Red!

I suspect there were a few people who made some money out of it too by betting that the European Champions and Rabo runners up would lose their 1st game to a lower ranked Scarlets team.

I'd imagine they were happy as they went and picked up their winnings today.

As long as they put their money on before the teams were named. Whistle

by red_stag Mon 03 Sep 2012, 1:25 pm

Exactly Hersh. Everyone's a winner. Don't think its anywhere near as big a deal as people are making out.

I think rugby is the real winner. It would be boring for Leinster to simply win every game (except of course for when they play Musnter)

Very Happy

by Portnoy Mon 03 Sep 2012, 1:25 pm

Attendances show what the public think as they demontrate a willingness to pitch up and splash their cash.

On that score there is no doubt what the stats show.

More bums (wait for the 'hilariuos' riposte) on seats shows something. 5.5m more in the Jeff than the Rabo. Mind you, everyone in the England is a millionaire whereas all the inhabitants of the Rabo nations live in mud huts and subsist on earthworm casts.

Rabo: Leinster (pop: 2.5m : ave crowd 19,252)
Jeff:Leicestershire (pop: 0.65m : ave crowd 20,749 (all at WR)

Make your own comparisons. The raw data is out there. http://www.statbunker.com/rugby/btb/index.php?PL=team&TeamID=116&CompID=376

by HERSH Mon 03 Sep 2012, 1:31 pm

I thought it was really disappointing to see so many empty seats especially after the summer break from the game.

by Kingshu Mon 03 Sep 2012, 1:33 pm

Leinster match fixing?
This is the same Leinster that have finished in the top 4 every year since 2003–04?
They will prob finish in top 4 again this year,
Ok Leinster didn't have there internationals and lost, (you may call it a weaked team if you want, but it was the best available)
But Ulster and Munster both sent out similar teams (just as weakened as Leinsters) and won, and not one word is Hersh saying about them.

Disgrace Munster and Ulster sending out weakened teams and winning, match fixing I call it.

The Rabo is more about depth than most leagues, and thats why at the buiness end when there are a few injuries, we have players of a similar level that can come in, these players don't get to that level never playing.

Well done Scarlets good win, Leinster are well known as being slow starters.

by funnyExiledScot Mon 03 Sep 2012, 1:33 pm

So you agree Portnoy that football is a vastly superior sport to rugby? I always assumed you were more of a rugby man personally....

by GunsGerms Mon 03 Sep 2012, 1:35 pm

Portnoy wrote:Attendances show what the public think as they demontrate a willingness to pitch up and splash their cash.

On that score there is no doubt what the stats show.

More bums (wait for the 'hilariuos' riposte) on seats shows something. 5.5m more in the Jeff than the Rabo. Mind you, everyone in the England is a millionaire whereas all the inhabitants of the Rabo nations live in mud huts and subsist on earthworm casts.

Rabo: Leinster (pop: 2.5m : ave crowd 19,252)
Jeff:Leicestershire (pop: 0.65m : ave crowd 20,749 (all at WR)

Make your own comparisons. The raw data is out there. http://www.statbunker.com/rugby/btb/index.php?PL=team&TeamID=116&CompID=376

Easier for the AP to get higher attendances because:

1. It's an older more established league
2. The AP is played in the same country which means away fan numbers will always be bigger than the Rabo which is played over four countries.
3. My guess is stadia capacity is bigger in the AP.
4. Welsh fans aren't coming in numbers yet.

None of the above make the AP a better league.

by red_stag Mon 03 Sep 2012, 1:37 pm

HERSH wrote:
I thought it was really disappointing to see so many empty seats especially after the summer break from the game.

Lets face it lads. I think Hersh that the All Blacks could roll up to town and the Welsh regions would still have rubbish attendances.

Portnoy, the RDS has a maximum capacity of 18,500. To have an average attendance of 19,500 suggests they are doing something right (they played 1 game in the 50,000 Aviva Stadium and it was full).

by Portnoy Mon 03 Sep 2012, 1:38 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:So you agree Portnoy that football is a vastly superior sport to rugby? I always assumed you were more of a rugby man personally....

Funnily enough, funny, I thought the debate was about the Rabo v Jeff. I'd hate to trawl Scottish attendances figures for comparisons with equivalent Jeff sides.

by Kingshu Mon 03 Sep 2012, 1:39 pm

Portnoy wrote:Attendances show what the public think as they demontrate a willingness to pitch up and splash their cash.

On that score there is no doubt what the stats show.

More bums (wait for the 'hilariuos' riposte) on seats shows something. 5.5m more in the Jeff than the Rabo. Mind you, everyone in the England is a millionaire whereas all the inhabitants of the Rabo nations live in mud huts and subsist on earthworm casts.

Rabo: Leinster (pop: 2.5m : ave crowd 19,252)
Jeff:Leicestershire (pop: 0.65m : ave crowd 20,749 (all at WR)

Make your own comparisons. The raw data is out there. http://www.statbunker.com/rugby/btb/index.php?PL=team&TeamID=116&CompID=376

Try

Rabo: Leinster (pop: 2.5m : ave crowd 19,252)
Jeff:Leicestershire (pop: 955,300 ave crowd 20,749 (all at WR)

Add in Leinter, Rubgy 4th choice sport, Leicestershire 2nd choice (closer to football than most parts of England in popularity).

by Jenifer McLadyboy Mon 03 Sep 2012, 1:41 pm

GunsGerms wrote:
Easier for the AP to get higher attendances because:

1. It's an older more established league
2. The AP is played in the same country which means away fan numbers will always be bigger than the Rabo which is played over four countries.
3. My guess is stadia capacity is bigger in the AP.
4. Welsh fans aren't coming in numbers yet.

None of the above make the AP a better league.

I dunno. The first one makes it a better league. Look how much the Rabo has come on in the 11 seasons. The longer established the better Leagues get. (To a point anyway, Look at the 100+ year old Top 14 with no tries in the knockout stages)

by funnyExiledScot Mon 03 Sep 2012, 1:44 pm

I was merely responding to your suggestion that supporter numbers corresponded directly to the quality of the product, and pointing out that is of course obviously nonsense.

More people no doubt watch London Irish than watch Edinburgh week in week out, but this didn't stop us spanking them twice last season in the HC, and we were the second worse team in the Rabo last year!

But as you say, it's all about statistics isn't it. That's why we love the game. You should have been at Ibrox to see Rangers play Elgin at the weekend. You'd have loved it. Loads of people were there.

by Portnoy Mon 03 Sep 2012, 1:47 pm

red_stag wrote:
HERSH wrote:
I thought it was really disappointing to see so many empty seats especially after the summer break from the game.

Lets face it lads. I think Hersh that the All Blacks could roll up to town and the Welsh regions would still have rubbish attendances.

Portnoy, the RDS has a maximum capacity of 18,500. To have an average attendance of 19,500 suggests they are doing something right (they played 1 game in the 50,000 Aviva Stadium and it was full).

Well let's explore that claim: firstly the attendance for the Munster match was declared at 48000. If as you say that's the exception, he average gate for the RDS was therefore 19253. In a ground max of 18500 - then that's very very good - even more so when the RDS had one game when 14,362 pitched up

[ed peg pardon the RDS average was 14452] -error on fag-packet.

by GunsGerms Mon 03 Sep 2012, 1:56 pm

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:
Easier for the AP to get higher attendances because:

1. It's an older more established league
2. The AP is played in the same country which means away fan numbers will always be bigger than the Rabo which is played over four countries.
3. My guess is stadia capacity is bigger in the AP.
4. Welsh fans aren't coming in numbers yet.

None of the above make the AP a better league.
I dunno. The first one makes it a better league. Look how much the Rabo has come on in the 11 seasons. The longer established the better Leagues get. (To a point anyway, Look at the 100+ year old Top 14 with no tries in the knockout stages)

Completely disagree with you on the point 1. 15 years the AP was by far the best league in Europe not only have the Rabo and top 14 caught up and probably overtaken the AP the AP has not improved in years. If anything the quality of the teams has possibly gotten worse. Well established leagues can become dated and I feel the AP has become quite dated.

by geoff998rugby Mon 03 Sep 2012, 1:59 pm

Portnoy wrote:Attendances show what the public think as they demontrate a willingness to pitch up and splash their cash.

On that score there is no doubt what the stats show.

More bums (wait for the 'hilariuos' riposte) on seats shows something. 5.5m more in the Jeff than the Rabo. Mind you, everyone in the England is a millionaire whereas all the inhabitants of the Rabo nations live in mud huts and subsist on earthworm casts.

Rabo: Leinster (pop: 2.5m : ave crowd 19,252)
Jeff:Leicestershire (pop: 0.65m : ave crowd 20,749 (all at WR)

Make your own comparisons. The raw data is out there. http://www.statbunker.com/rugby/btb/index.php?PL=team&TeamID=116&CompID=376

We can all play the statistics game

England pop 55 million - 16 (?) fully professional teams - 1 for every 3.4 million.
Ireland pop 5 million - 4 fully professional teams - 1 for every 1.25 million.

thats even when Rugby Union is Englands 2 favourite team game but only Irelands 4th favourite.

by Portnoy Mon 03 Sep 2012, 2:24 pm

geoff998rugby wrote:
Portnoy wrote:Attendances show what the public think as they demontrate a willingness to pitch up and splash their cash.

On that score there is no doubt what the stats show.

More bums (wait for the 'hilariuos' riposte) on seats shows something. 5.5m more in the Jeff than the Rabo. Mind you, everyone in the England is a millionaire whereas all the inhabitants of the Rabo nations live in mud huts and subsist on earthworm casts.

Rabo: Leinster (pop: 2.5m : ave crowd 19,252)
Jeff:Leicestershire (pop: 0.65m : ave crowd 20,749 (all at WR)

Make your own comparisons. The raw data is out there. http://www.statbunker.com/rugby/btb/index.php?PL=team&TeamID=116&CompID=376

We can all play the statistics game

England pop 55 million - 16 (?) fully professional teams - 1 for every 3.4 million.
Ireland pop 5 million - 4 fully professional teams - 1 for every 1.25 million.

thats even when Rugby Union is Englands 2 favourite team game but only Irelands 4th favourite.

Well if I were going to be picky, I'd say that Ireland's population for the purpose (if there was any) of this debate, I'd say that the population is 6.8m according to wiki.

But as the OP is a comparison between the Rabo v Jeff, I'll pass on your opinion as to how the debate can be moved on by casting in irrelevant made-up numbers.

by Kingshu Mon 03 Sep 2012, 3:01 pm

Portnoy wrote:
geoff998rugby wrote:
Portnoy wrote:Attendances show what the public think as they demontrate a willingness to pitch up and splash their cash.

On that score there is no doubt what the stats show.

More bums (wait for the 'hilariuos' riposte) on seats shows something. 5.5m more in the Jeff than the Rabo. Mind you, everyone in the England is a millionaire whereas all the inhabitants of the Rabo nations live in mud huts and subsist on earthworm casts.

Rabo: Leinster (pop: 2.5m : ave crowd 19,252)
Jeff:Leicestershire (pop: 0.65m : ave crowd 20,749 (all at WR)

Make your own comparisons. The raw data is out there. http://www.statbunker.com/rugby/btb/index.php?PL=team&TeamID=116&CompID=376

Even though the numbers may be slightly out, the point is still very valid

Ireland smaller Population, 4th choice sport, Engalnd larger population 2nd choice sport. In which country do you think it would be easier to fill stadia?

We can all play the statistics game

England pop 55 million - 16 (?) fully professional teams - 1 for every 3.4 million.
Ireland pop 5 million - 4 fully professional teams - 1 for every 1.25 million.

thats even when Rugby Union is Englands 2 favourite team game but only Irelands 4th favourite.

Well if I were going to be picky, I'd say that Ireland's population for the purpose (if there was any) of this debate, I'd say that the population is 6.8m according to wiki.

But as the OP is a comparison between the Rabo v Jeff, I'll pass on your opinion as to how the debate can be moved on by casting in irrelevant made-up numbers.

by Kingshu Mon 03 Sep 2012, 3:03 pm

Portnoy wrote:
geoff998rugby wrote:
Portnoy wrote:Attendances show what the public think as they demontrate a willingness to pitch up and splash their cash.

On that score there is no doubt what the stats show.

More bums (wait for the 'hilariuos' riposte) on seats shows something. 5.5m more in the Jeff than the Rabo. Mind you, everyone in the England is a millionaire whereas all the inhabitants of the Rabo nations live in mud huts and subsist on earthworm casts.

Rabo: Leinster (pop: 2.5m : ave crowd 19,252)
Jeff:Leicestershire (pop: 0.65m : ave crowd 20,749 (all at WR)

Make your own comparisons. The raw data is out there. http://www.statbunker.com/rugby/btb/index.php?PL=team&TeamID=116&CompID=376

We can all play the statistics game

England pop 55 million - 16 (?) fully professional teams - 1 for every 3.4 million.
Ireland pop 5 million - 4 fully professional teams - 1 for every 1.25 million.

thats even when Rugby Union is Englands 2 favourite team game but only Irelands 4th favourite.

Well if I were going to be picky, I'd say that Ireland's population for the purpose (if there was any) of this debate, I'd say that the population is 6.8m according to wiki.

But as the OP is a comparison between the Rabo v Jeff, I'll pass on your opinion as to how the debate can be moved on by casting in irrelevant made-up numbers.

The number may be wrong but the point is still very valid.

England much larger population 2nd choice sport, Ireland much smaller population 4th choice sport. In which country do you think its easier to attract big crowds?

by Portnoy Mon 03 Sep 2012, 3:06 pm

GunsGerms wrote:
Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:
Easier for the AP to get higher attendances because:

1. It's an older more established league
2. The AP is played in the same country which means away fan numbers will always be bigger than the Rabo which is played over four countries.
3. My guess is stadia capacity is bigger in the AP.
4. Welsh fans aren't coming in numbers yet.

None of the above make the AP a better league.
I dunno. The first one makes it a better league. Look how much the Rabo has come on in the 11 seasons. The longer established the better Leagues get. (To a point anyway, Look at the 100+ year old Top 14 with no tries in the knockout stages)

Completely disagree with you on the point 1. 15 years the AP was by far the best league in Europe not only have the Rabo and top 14 caught up and probably overtaken the AP the AP has not improved in years. If anything the quality of the teams has possibly gotten worse. Well established leagues can become dated and I feel the AP has become quite dated.

GnG, 1. It's an older more established league - true

2. The AP is played in the same country which means away fan numbers will always be bigger than the Rabo which is played over four countries - true
3. My guess is stadia capacity is bigger in the AP - at best irrelevant
4. Welsh fans aren't coming in numbers yet - very true

None of the above make the AP a better league - true - so your point is?

Jenny, "Look at the 100+ year old Top 14 with no tries in the knockout stages". Really over a hunderd years? No wonder the French prefer their own league!

The furthest I can find on statbunker for the rabo is 2007/8

Magners Celtic League 07/08 / Home Attendance
Club Average Total Highest Lowest
Leinster 13,929 111,432 18,500 5,976
Ulster 8,984 80,857 12,300 6,592
Ospreys 8,702 69,614 16,109 5,417
Cardiff Blues 8,241 74,166 12,532 5,425
Scarlets 7,350 58,802 10,739 5,923
Munster 7,106 63,952 8,500 4,952
Gwent Dragons 4,972 39,774 6,782 3,240
Edinburgh Reivers 2,889 26,002 6,225 1,200
Connacht 2,181 19,631 4,000 1,463
Glasgow Caledonians 2,170 19,527 4,731 1,250
Total 6,555 563,757 (2011-12 797,129)

Guinness Premiership 07/08 / Home Attendance
Club Average Total Highest Lowest
Leicester Tigers 17,206 189,266 17,498 16,219
Gloucester 13,965 153,613 16,500 11,753
Harlequins 13,133 144,463 35,000 7,459
London Wasps 11,560 127,155 39,400 6,629
Bath 10,460 115,057 10,600 10,010
London Irish 9,950 109,449 23,709 6,800
Worcester Warriors 9,658 106,242 10,197 7,105
Bristol 9,175 100,929 16,243 6,439
Saracens 9,071 99,779 17,223 5,896
Sale Sharks 8,772 96,487 10,872 6,402
Newcastle Falcons 7,530 82,829 10,200 5,592
Leeds Carnegie 7,238 79,621 11,116 3,841
Total 10,643 1,404,890

Rabo gates 41% up
Jeff gates 3% up

Now there's something for the Rabo to crow about over the past five years.

by Portnoy Mon 03 Sep 2012, 3:10 pm

Kingshu wrote:
Portnoy wrote:
geoff998rugby wrote:
Portnoy wrote:Attendances show what the public think as they demontrate a willingness to pitch up and splash their cash.

On that score there is no doubt what the stats show.

More bums (wait for the 'hilariuos' riposte) on seats shows something. 5.5m more in the Jeff than the Rabo. Mind you, everyone in the England is a millionaire whereas all the inhabitants of the Rabo nations live in mud huts and subsist on earthworm casts.

Rabo: Leinster (pop: 2.5m : ave crowd 19,252)
Jeff:Leicestershire (pop: 0.65m : ave crowd 20,749 (all at WR)

Make your own comparisons. The raw data is out there. http://www.statbunker.com/rugby/btb/index.php?PL=team&TeamID=116&CompID=376

We can all play the statistics game

England pop 55 million - 16 (?) fully professional teams - 1 for every 3.4 million.
Ireland pop 5 million - 4 fully professional teams - 1 for every 1.25 million.

thats even when Rugby Union is Englands 2 favourite team game but only Irelands 4th favourite.

Well if I were going to be picky, I'd say that Ireland's population for the purpose (if there was any) of this debate, I'd say that the population is 6.8m according to wiki.

But as the OP is a comparison between the Rabo v Jeff, I'll pass on your opinion as to how the debate can be moved on by casting in irrelevant made-up numbers.

The number may be wrong but the point is still very valid.

England much larger population 2nd choice sport, Ireland much smaller population 4th choice sport. In which country do you think its easier to attract big crowds?

True, but shouldn't the Rabo be taken over the cumulative populations of its constiuesnt nations to draw a parallel. Or do want to cherry-pick your data to fit your argument?

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Mon 03 Sep 2012, 3:20 pm

I think youll find bickering is Englands second favourite team game ( CBA to check the stats but rugby league used to be more popular too)

And saying " Noone cares about rugby in Ireland" is hardly a ringing endorsment for the amount of sh1t people give about the Rabo is it

The made up stats are also incorrect in stating theres ony 16 pro clubs in England, the entire Championship is now fully professional. Not that its entirely relevant, theres 3rd tier amateur clubs who get attendances higher than some of the Rabo games do.

by geoff998rugby Mon 03 Sep 2012, 3:23 pm

My point was to show the total irrelevancy of the original stats posted.

I think the ensuing posts have confirmed that.

It was not I who cherry picked some stats to prove a point I was merely showing we can all do that and nothing is proven either way.

by **George Carlin** Mon 03 Sep 2012, 3:25 pm

by Kingshu Mon 03 Sep 2012, 3:31 pm

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:I think youll find bickering is Englands second favourite team game ( CBA to check the stats but rugby league used to be more popular too)

And saying " Noone cares about rugby in Ireland" is hardly a ringing endorsment for the amount of sh1t people give about the Rabo is it

The made up stats are also incorrect in stating theres ony 16 pro clubs in England, the entire Championship is now fully professional. Not that its entirely relevant, theres 3rd tier amateur clubs who get attendances higher than some of the Rabo games do.

No one says " Noone cares about rugby in Ireland" but to say it's the 4th choice sport, a long way behind Football, Gaelic football and Hurling, is an unarguable point.

The Ireland England comparassion came about as it was orginally Tigers v Leinster, I orginally corrected Liecestershire pop to 0.9 million.

Comparing total league populaton is very difficult, as with Wales its the main sport (argueable by some Welsh), Ireland 4th choice, Scotalnd second choice but a way less popular 2nd choice than England, and Italy, don't know where it lies, but its fair to say its only popular in some areas and way way way way behind football

by Portnoy Mon 03 Sep 2012, 4:05 pm

Kingshu wrote:
Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:I think youll find bickering is Englands second favourite team game ( CBA to check the stats but rugby league used to be more popular too)

And saying " Noone cares about rugby in Ireland" is hardly a ringing endorsment for the amount of sh1t people give about the Rabo is it

The made up stats are also incorrect in stating theres ony 16 pro clubs in England, the entire Championship is now fully professional. Not that its entirely relevant, theres 3rd tier amateur clubs who get attendances higher than some of the Rabo games do.

No one says " Noone cares about rugby in Ireland" but to say it's the 4th choice sport, a long way behind Football, Gaelic football and Hurling, is an unarguable point.

The Ireland England comparassion came about as it was orginally Tigers v Leinster, I orginally corrected Liecestershire pop to 0.9 million.

Comparing total league populaton is very difficult, as with Wales its the main sport (argueable by some Welsh), Ireland 4th choice, Scotalnd second choice but a way less popular 2nd choice than England, and Italy, don't know where it lies, but its fair to say its only popular in some areas and way way way way behind football

I orginally corrected Liecestershire pop to 0.9 million.

You used wiki I think by googling the county and your exact figure originally, My numbers are as published by government population censuses and reported in the case of Leicestershire in the press : http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/Leicestershire-County-Council-leader-welcomes-new/story-16543798-detail/story.html

And the number in the rankings of sport is clearly dependent on how that is determined (participants?, revenue?, attendance? team/individual etc.) and not on a bland, made-up assertion.

One website has cricket as England.s national sport. Another based on web hits has Soccer as #1 and football as #4 and no mention at all of rugby (either code). Pretty much the same for Ireland as it happens.

by geoff998rugby Mon 03 Sep 2012, 4:23 pm

so the cherry picking of stats to prove a point goes on picard

by GunsGerms Mon 03 Sep 2012, 4:59 pm

Portnoy wrote:

GnG, 1. It's an older more established league - true

2. The AP is played in the same country which means away fan numbers will always be bigger than the Rabo which is played over four countries - true
3. My guess is stadia capacity is bigger in the AP - at best irrelevant
4. Welsh fans aren't coming in numbers yet - very true

None of the above make the AP a better league - true - so your point is?

My point is attendance figures isnt a reliable indicator of which league is better. I'd imagine the premier league in England gets bigger attendances that La liga in Spain but La liga is a better league etc.

by Pot Hale Mon 03 Sep 2012, 5:20 pm

So you think that Premiership sides don't field weakened sides when the situation calls for it?

Unlike French sides do. Or SA or NZ did in last year's 3N.

Or as many football sides do when playing in the League Cup for example.

You're a dog with a plastic bone, Hersh. Keep gnawing - eventually a piece will come off.

by Portnoy Mon 03 Sep 2012, 5:27 pm

GunsGerms wrote:
Portnoy wrote:

GnG, 1. It's an older more established league - true

2. The AP is played in the same country which means away fan numbers will always be bigger than the Rabo which is played over four countries - true
3. My guess is stadia capacity is bigger in the AP - at best irrelevant
4. Welsh fans aren't coming in numbers yet - very true

None of the above make the AP a better league - true - so your point is?

My point is attendance figures isnt a reliable indicator of which league is better. I'd imagine the premier league in England gets bigger attendances that La liga in Spain but La liga is a better league etc.

Oh right then. I agree.

It's all subjective. No question about that. thumbsup

All I was trying do was to put some flesh on the bare bones of the OP as the majority of the posts seem to be just opinion/assertion wrapped up in bollix evidence (if any).

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Mon 03 Sep 2012, 6:36 pm

Honestly though in terms of how seriously its contested, and how much the fans who watch (howvever many) give a toss about it relative to other cups can there be an argument that the Jeff isnt more highly regarded than the Rabo?
That doesnt mean there arent some better players, better teams and arguably better ethics in the Rabo. Nor is it a question of the "quality" of the rugby, which is very varied in the Jeff ...although the opening weekends matches were pretty good for the most part its rarely the case for the whole season. The same for the Rabo, Im sure we'll see some better games as it goes on. What we wont see is the best sides, and most fans, treating it as their top priority.

by Hound_of_Harrow Mon 03 Sep 2012, 6:49 pm

Ok, so the Jeff has got off to a rip roaring start with lots of points and tries. Perhaps the new laws helped speed the game up. It seemed that way with Wasps v Quins. The only other game I saw - Welsh v Tigers - was played in similar vein.

But maybe it was because the Jeff clubs were able to call on their best players, and some of the Rabo teams were forced to stand down their best players, that might have had something to do with some perceptions of the quality of the rugby.

Yer know, like err, internationals will produce better rugby.

Therefore last weekend was not the one to make such comparisons.

There are periods under the EPS agreement when Jeff clubs have to rest their internationals too.

by Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler Mon 03 Sep 2012, 7:25 pm

Hound_of_Harrow wrote:Ok, so the Jeff has got off to a rip roaring start with lots of points and tries. Perhaps the new laws helped speed the game up. It seemed that way with Wasps v Quins. The only other game I saw - Welsh v Tigers - was played in similar vein.

But maybe it was because the Jeff clubs were able to call on their best players, and some of the Rabo teams were forced to stand down their best players, that might have had something to do with some perceptions of the quality of the rugby.

Yer know, like err, internationals will produce better rugby.

Therefore last weekend was not the one to make such comparisons.

There are periods under the EPS agreement when Jeff clubs have to rest their internationals too.

Thats the point though...whilst both leagues suffer from other competitions taking precedence the Rabo suffers more. "on their day" both leagues are equal, and the best side is certainly in the Rabo, trouble is the Rabo has too many joke games and isnt seen as a priority by some clubs/unions and doesnt have the same commitment from fans as the Jeff either.
Whilst both suffer from clubs missing internationals, resting players etc theres more games played by full strength sides, and more meaningful games ( relegation, HC qualification ) in the Jeff than there is the Rabo. this is why purely as a competition its better....it means more and the clubs try more.
As I said it doesnt mean one has the better players or the always the better "quality" rugby, nor are attendances entirely relevant/comparable...but that wasnt the point of the OP. Nor does it mean the Jeff is better for Englands international and HC ambitions, or acting as a development space for new players.

Even the idea that the Jeff is only contested by the same few contenders isnt valid, if you look at the range of finalists/winners for the two competitions over the period of the Celtic leagues existence its.

In other ways I am happy to argue the Rabo is "better"...it just depends what you want from your league and club rugby. Personally my favourite competitions are the Jeff and the 6 Nations. Other people like the HC and world cup more.

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