Glasgow Warriors vs Scarlets - build-up, teams and live match-day thread

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

First topic message reminder :

Looking forward to round 2 of the Rabo, and hoping that there'll be a big improvement from the Warriors in their first match at the new home at Scotstoun. It certainly won't be an easy task as Scarlets looked in very good shape against (an understrength) Leinster.

Potential team:

15.Murchie - with Hogg and Ramont still unavailable, not sure that we've got a choice here; did ok vs Ulster
14.Seymour - probably our best back against Ulster; showed plenty of hunger, YC was silly tho
13.DTH - we need this guy in the XV, we also need a 13, he plays there for Canada
12.Dunbar - pace, step hands, brain - all things Morrison doesn't have
11.Samont - time to put one over your former colleagues
10.Weir - still the man in possession, just, as Jackson looked better when he came on
9.Cusiter - upped the pace of the game considerably when he came on, heavy-strapping on thigh is of concern tho

8.Wilson - not at his rampaging best, needs a big game to cement shirt else it might go to Ma'afu when her recovers
7.Barclay - looked to have his mojo back, Fusaro unlucky to miss out
6.Harley - nb
5.Kellock - hopefully he's fine, lineout was a shambles without him
4.Ryder - needs to up his game, too quiet last week, place could be under threat from Swinson on his return or even Campbell now
3.Low - seemed solid in the scrum, does a lot more than Cusack around the pitch
2.MAcarthur - if fit, Gillies if not
1.Grant - Reid has improved, but is not the same class as Ryan G who gave Afoa a tough time when he came on

16.Gillies - Hall if MacArthur unfit
17.Reid - nobody else
18.Cusack - Kalman still injured?
19.Campbell - we need proper lock cover
20.Eddie
21.Pyrgos - where is Matawalu?
22.Jackson
23.Horne

[Knowsit17]

Where is everyone? Is the game that boring?

Judging from the fact that none of Scarlets' tries have been converted, I take it Priestland is confirming he's going to have to be very lucky to be able to call himself a Lion in 9 months

[maestegmafia]

What was the score

[Knowsit17]

13-18 to Scarlets. Not sure if Shingler or Earle scored the first try such is the half-heartedness and lack of interest from the beeb in the Pro12. Can't even be bothered to check whether they've spelt Earle and Cusiter correctly

[Guest]

18 - 13 FT to Scarlets

Neither side had a great day with the boot, many drifted just wide, but lots were just miss kicks, hard to tell if it was the players or the wind!

Glasgow fought back v well in the last 20 when it looked like Scarlets could have gone on to get a tbp.

Liam Williams got MotM again.

Scrappy, hard fought game, but Scarlets took their 3 tries v well and the Glasgow one was a nice little pop pass to make the break to send cusiter over. Not bad really.

Try scores for Scarlets: Shingler, Fenby and North

For Glasgow: Cusiter

[Knowsit17]

Liam Williams for Wales this autumn if Halfpenny's injury is more serious than expected? Or too early yet to risk him at the higher stage?

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Fair play to Llanelli - terrible start for the Weegies

[Guest]

hmmmm, possibly too early, although he has been involved with the Wales squad before so who knows. He is in storming form, just such a fiery character, never gives up on anything, amazing spirit really. Love watching him play, he is always, always 100% committed.

Asbo! you toerag...

I will say this about Glasgow. You guys learn how to offload better and you will be a v v difficult side to beat. Tough as hell to play against, really thought you were going to fight back enough to nick the win in the last 20 mins.

[maestegmafia]

Cheers guys. Been sailing down to Cornwall so missed the results.

[Knowsit17]

hmmmm, possibly too early, although he has been involved with the Wales squad before so who knows. He is in storming form, just such a fiery character, never gives up on anything, amazing spirit really. Love watching him play, he is always, always 100% committed.

Asbo! you toerag...

I will say this about Glasgow. You guys learn how to offload better and you will be a v v difficult side to beat. Tough as hell to play against, really thought you were going to fight back enough to nick the win in the last 20 mins.

It's that unrelenting attitude I wish we had from every man playing in red. T'would make us that much less likely to lose in any game. Half the time I feel exasperated at somebody not giving it their all and setting back the rest of the team. Long may Williams' and Scarlets' current form continue

[LondonTiger]

Well done Scarlets, 2 from 2 and a good start to be the highest finishing Welsh team.

[maestegmafia]

Great start and plenty of tries too..!

[maestegmafia]

From the BBC

Glasgow Warriors 13-18 Scarlets

GLASGOW (6) 13
Tries: Cussiter 1 Con: Weir 1 Pens: Jackson 2
ULSTER (10) 18
Tries: Earl 1, Fenby 1, North 1 Con: n/a Pens: Priestland 1
Glasgow lost at the hands of Scarlets in the first Pro12 match held at Scotstoun Stadium in Glasgow.
Tries from George Earl, Andy Fenby and George North boosted the visitors but stand-off Rhys Priestland failed to convert in a poor night for kicking.
Ruaridh Jackson kicked two first-half penalties for the home side only to be replaced at the break by Duncan Weir.
Chris Cusiter rallied Warriors with a try late on, but with five minutes remaining the Welsh side left victors.


Glasgow Warriors : Peter Murchie, DTH van der Merwe, Alex Dunbar, Graeme Morrison, Sean Lamont, Ruaridh Jackson, Chris Cusiter, Ryan Grant, Pat MacArthur, Moray Low, Tom Ryder, Al Kellock, Rob Harley, John Barclay, Ryan Wilson.
Replacements : Gordon Reid, Mike Cusack, Dougie Hall, James Eddie, Chris Fusaro, Henry Pyrgos, Duncan Weir, Peter Horne.
Scarlets : Liam Williams; George North, Jonathan Davies, Scott Williams, Andy Fenby; Rhys Priestland, Tavis Knoyle; Rhodri Jones, Matthew Rees, Deacon Manu, George Earle, Richard Kelly, Aaron Shingler, Johnathan Edwards, Rob McCusker (capt).
Replacements: Ken Owens, Phil John, Peter Edwards, Sione Timani, Kieran Murphy, Gareth Davies, Aled Thomas, Adam Warren.
Referee: Dudley Phillips

[Artful_Dodger]

Ulster maesteg!!??

Scarlets looking very good early door this season - lets see if they can keep this going into the HC and when the big teams in the league are playing their best teams.

[IanBru]

Just back from the game. God that was depressing.

Downsides:
- Jackson's kicking
- Morrison's passing
- Morrison's running
- An inability to put a runner into space
- I got lost on the way to Scotstoun, and had to go to a petrol station to check a map (I didn't buy it.).

Upsides:
I sat next to a lovely old couple with an even lovelier daughter. Genuinely, that's it.

My verdict:
Glasgow didn't deserve a bonus point. We did deserve a massive wedgie. Scotstoun was pretty good and works well with packed stands. Not sure how often we'll see that on this evidence.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Bru, you're missing one major downside - Gregor Townsend has taken a winning team and turned them into complete no-hopers. Useless as a Scotland coach, demoted to the Warriors, continuing his abysmal coaching form. Enough of the experiment SRU, he must go now, he simply doesn't have what it takes

[Knowsit17]

Bru, you're missing one major downside - Gregor Townsend has taken a winning team and turned them into complete no-hopers. Useless as a Scotland coach, demoted to the Warriors, continuing his abysmal coaching form. Enough of the experiment SRU, he must go now, he simply doesn't have what it takes

Bit early to draw the verdict on Townsend as head coach surely, he's only two games into his tenure. Some coaches seem out of their depth when working with national sides yet can be handy to an extent in club jobs (Robbo, Nige Davies to name two), maybe in time Townsend will prove himself in this category.

I wish him and Glasgow luck except when playing the regions

[Seagultaf]

Fortunate win for the Scarlets, two trys against the run of play in the first half and their scrum was a mess! Glasgow will play worse this season and win!

Rhodri Jones was a future star last season and even got capped by Wales. In the two games this season he has been stuffed in the scrums. Perhaps the Scarlets need to get Garin Jenkins back to work on the scrum?

Still, with the majority of their overseas forward signings yet to arrive they have won 2 and lost none, so good start.

[Guest]

The scrums were odd for the Scarlets.

We won 2 against the ahead, but had about 3 where we really struggled. I think it's Rhodri's height that might be the problem, he just needs to consistently stop his opponent getting under him and driving him up. When he does that, our scrum is v solid. He's still learning though, is a massive prospect.

What I noted about Glasgow was that their defence was poor by their standards compared to last season. For me it was their defence that got them into the play offs so if they don't improve on that, especially at home, I'm not sure they'll make it this time as they don't seem to have enough in their backs to take advantage of the possession they do have (and let's face it, they had loads of it in the first half but could barely get into the Scarlets' 22)

[af73]

What I noted about Glasgow was that their defence was poor by their standards compared to last season. For me it was their defence that got them into the play offs so if they don't improve on that, especially at home.

I'm not sure they'll make it this time as they don't seem to have enough in their backs to take advantage of the possession they do have (and let's face it, they had loads of it in the first half but could barely get into the Scarlets' 22)

Correct on both counts RD.

Our defence coach last season was Gary Mercer and as you rightly say we had the best/2nd best defensive record in the league in terms of points and tries conceeded. Naturally the SRU, in their wisdom, removed him from his post.


Over the last few seasons Glasgow haven't been a free scoring team but Sean Lineen knew how to get them to win and the players bought into it leading to 2 play-off spots in 3 years. Again the SRU, in their wisdom, have removed him and installed Gregor Townsend as head coach. His record as Scotland's attack coach saw the national team finish 3rd bottom of the try scoring charts at the last World Cup and a strike rate of less than 1 try per match over the last 3 seasons.

Glasgow are being treated as a lab experiment. A play thing for their blue eyed boy in whom they have an unfathomable amount of faith to learn his trade. Other Scottish coaches are rightly aggrieved at having to learn their trade in the lower leagues only to come up against the glass ceiling while Townsend seems to have been born with a silver spoon in his......

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

Bru, you're missing one major downside - Gregor Townsend has taken a winning team and turned them into complete no-hopers. Useless as a Scotland coach, demoted to the Warriors, continuing his abysmal coaching form. Enough of the experiment SRU, he must go now, he simply doesn't have what it takes

Bit early to draw the verdict on Townsend as head coach surely, he's only two games into his tenure. Some coaches seem out of their depth when working with national sides yet can be handy to an extent in club jobs (Robbo, Nige Davies to name two), maybe in time Townsend will prove himself in this category.

I wish him and Glasgow luck except when playing the regions

Knowsit, I'm trying not to judge too soon, trust me, and I'm even doing my best to ignore how much he blunted Scotland's back play as attack coach. But three losses in the warm-up game, and two more in the season proper, and we're seeing that he's managed to coach out of Glasgow all the virtues that made them such a tough team to beat. He simply isn't up to the task, and I know that there have been high hopes for his potential over at Murrayfield, but even the biggest optimist cannot but fail to see his lack of ability. It's an unfortunate and sad truth, but one that is better recognised quickly and dealt with

[Guest]

that does seem baffling why they would remove two such effective coaches af73, not good for Glasgow

You weren't far off clicking yesterday though, so there's still a lot of positives to take from it, whether or not Townsend is the man to get you to click though is another question.....

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

What I noted about Glasgow was that their defence was poor by their standards compared to last season. For me it was their defence that got them into the play offs so if they don't improve on that, especially at home.

I'm not sure they'll make it this time as they don't seem to have enough in their backs to take advantage of the possession they do have (and let's face it, they had loads of it in the first half but could barely get into the Scarlets' 22)

Correct on both counts RD.

Our defence coach last season was Gary Mercer and as you rightly say we had the best/2nd best defensive record in the league in terms of points and tries conceeded. Naturally the SRU, in their wisdom, removed him from his post.


Over the last few seasons Glasgow haven't been a free scoring team but Sean Lineen knew how to get them to win and the players bought into it leading to 2 play-off spots in 3 years. Again the SRU, in their wisdom, have removed him and installed Gregor Townsend as head coach. His record as Scotland's attack coach saw the national team finish 3rd bottom of the try scoring charts at the last World Cup and a strike rate of less than 1 try per match over the last 3 seasons.

Glasgow are being treated as a lab experiment. A play thing for their blue eyed boy in whom they have an unfathomable amount of faith to learn his trade. Other Scottish coaches are rightly aggrieved at having to learn their trade in the lower leagues only to come up against the glass ceiling while Townsend seems to have been born with a silver spoon in his......

+1

Much more eloquently put than my effort

[af73]

that does seem baffling why they would remove two such effective coaches af73, not good for Glasgow

You weren't far off clicking yesterday though, so there's still a lot of positives to take from it, whether or not Townsend is the man to get you to click though is another question.....

That's it in a nutshell. Scottish coaches and selectors have been (for years) notoriously slow to notice what is blindingly obvious to most observers.

Actually they probably do notice but are more concerned about losing face than correcting a mistake to change it. It would seem to explain the number of caps racked up by certain players.

My feeling is that Townsend is all about his coaching 'philosophy'. In other words he talks a good game. His lack of coaching experience (or basic ability) means he is trying to implement that philosophy regardless of outcome or through inconsistent and ill-matched team selections. For example playing a fast,flat, off loading game with backs like Morrison and Lamont who need 3 separate brain impulses just to catch, turn and trundle into contact.

The injury enforced absence of Hogg is a blow but if he wants to move away form a containing game to a attacking one then why sign players like Paris, McGuigan etc if he thinks they are too young or inexperienced to play? Dunbar is out of position to accomodate Morrison. Our try scoring solo effort from last week, Seymour, dropped completely while Lamont is retained?

Jackosn being asked to kick when he can't and Weir being asked to run when the options outside him are non-existent.

All of this points to a lack of cohesion and organisation behind the scenes and an ineffective pre-season which was borne out by defeats, inconclusive performances and players rested (under cooked) due to national considerations.

[overlordofthewest]

I must admit to being ignorant of Glasgows internal workings etc. I really can't understand why after making the play offs last season they'd want to change the coaching staff. Tweak the squad a bit yes, bring through a couple of youngsters yes, change the defence coach when you had one if the best defences in the league - why??
As for Townsend, he's only had a couple of games maybe things will improve. Nigel Davies was being called all sorts a season or so ago, these boards were calling for his resignation but things then improved. Maybe he'll be a better pro 12 coach that he was skills coach with Scotland.

For the game, both sides were hit and miss. If Glasgow took their chances it could have been another story early on. However credit to the Scarlets, another 3 tries and had Priestland nailed his kicks they would have been out of sight at the end rather than holding on.

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

Bru, you're missing one major downside - Gregor Townsend has taken a winning team and turned them into complete no-hopers. Useless as a Scotland coach, demoted to the Warriors, continuing his abysmal coaching form. Enough of the experiment SRU, he must go now, he simply doesn't have what it takes

Bit early to draw the verdict on Townsend as head coach surely, he's only two games into his tenure. Some coaches seem out of their depth when working with national sides yet can be handy to an extent in club jobs (Robbo, Nige Davies to name two), maybe in time Townsend will prove himself in this category.

I wish him and Glasgow luck except when playing the regions

Knowsit, I'm trying not to judge too soon, trust me, and I'm even doing my best to ignore how much he blunted Scotland's back play as attack coach. But three losses in the warm-up game, and two more in the season proper, and we're seeing that he's managed to coach out of Glasgow all the virtues that made them such a tough team to beat. He simply isn't up to the task, and I know that there have been high hopes for his potential over at Murrayfield, but even the biggest optimist cannot but fail to see his lack of ability. It's an unfortunate and sad truth, but one that is better recognised quickly and dealt with

Well said ASBO as that was bloody abysmal. What a mess ! Defensively appalling. Morrison rotten. Jackson and Weir poor. Wilson poor. SLamont poor. Ryder poor. Eddie poor- god do we need Rob Harley back! Atmosphere poor. Catering disgraceful - note to SRU dunces - if you are going to sell beer that tastes like then at least make it Scottish That Carling stuff is utter, overpriced slop

Positives Barclay looked back to best. Cusiter has a reasonable game. DTH looked up for it in the first half. MacDonald's little cameo showed what a class act he is - his scrapping in midfield won the try. Kellock tried hard and bossed the lineout.

Otherwise a truly depressing experience

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

It just shows how idiotic it was by the SRU half-wits in getting rid of Sean Lineen and Gary Mercer for the Townsend and Taylor incompetents.

[Imperialbigdave]

Townsends appointment was baffling, but Lineens removal was long overdue.

While he guided them to the play offs last season, it was built on Gary Mercers defensive work. Glasgow still showed very little else, and in 9 seasons with them, there was never really any improvement in gameplan, or attack. They got to the play offs on the back of a limited gameplan but lacked the ability to improvise if they couldnt just defend their way to victory. It was the same story as the stormers in the super15 this year, saracens in the premiership, and probably Biarritz or Castres in the top 14. Solid stuff thatll win stodgy games throughout the season, but is unlikely to win silverware. Had Lineen only been in the post a couple of seasons and acheived this, fair enough, Id keep him, but after 9 years in the glasgow set up (6 of which as head coach?) hed had his chances to shore up glasgows weaknesses, but didnt.

Gary Mercers sacking however was baffling.

Edit: Oh and Taylor has a super15 title, so he can obviously do something right

[sensisball]

As Toonie is untouchable as is Taylor who has just arrived in the country with the dual role of Scotland "defence" coach it is clear who will carry the can if the season turns into a nightmare. Step forward Shade Munro, the excellent and experienced forward's coach.
He has already publicly taken the blame for the poor pack display at Ravenhill. Munro is an excellent technical coach but Lineen was the motivator that got the players focused and working for each other. Townsend doesnt strike me as much of a motivator.

Looking at the pictures from Friday's match Teflon Toonie was cosied up next to Taylor looking at their computers with Shade sitting on the far side of Taylor looking very much like a bemused bystander at the poor play he was witnessing. I really fear that Munro, like Lineen and Mercer before him may find himself out of job at Glasgow before the season is out if things dont turn around soon.

[George Carlin]

af73 - welcome to these boards - your elequent comments duly noted and agreed.

Imperial - it's true that Taylor was part of a Super15 winning coaching set up, but that was with a Reds side who actually conceded quite a lot of tries last season but had a stunning array of strike runners in Genia, Cooper, Davies, Ioane and Shipplerley who managed to generally score more than they conceded. Perhaps unfair, but I don't think that they won to any great extent because he was defence coach. I understand your point though, he deserves a chance.

Toonie on the other hand - I think that our favourite Tourettes-afflicted poster, Schizoid has said it all for me. If (I said 'if', because there are clearly technical problems there too) Glasgow's problems come from lack of team cohesion and man management rather than the systems the squad train to, then I am officially worried, because I cannot believe that Toonie is a leader of men in the way required.

I agree with the above posters that the problem was not removing Lineen, it was removing Mercer and appointing GT rather then one of a dozen other possibilities.

The week after Towsend was appointed, Allister Coetzee (the Stormers coach whose style would suit Glasgow well) gave an interview saying how interested he would be in working for a pro-team in Europe. I think that I might have cried a bit.

[funnyExiledScot]

I just hope that when the inevitable happens and Gregor Townsend is sacked at the end of this season, that the idiots responsible for his appointment also get sacked.

Regardless of what happens this season, his appointment was an amateur and unjustifiable decision at the time. I haven't heard a single fan of rugby endorse it or come up with a reasonable explanation for it. There are those (and I am not one) who felt that Lineen had taken Glasgow as far as he could. Fine, I don't agree but I can see the logic and the reasoning. The appointment of Townsend was inexplicable, and so far his performance and that of his team has been true to form.

He was a wonderful player, but never an organiser or a leader. His brilliance came from his ability to play off the cuff and see space. He was a rare talent at 10 because his distribution skills were top notch but he was also a very good broken field runner with an eye for a gap. His kicking abilities were limited, and his defensive positioning unremarkable. He was also troubled by inconsistency, and was often on a different wavelength to the backs outside him. Of all the great Scotland players of the last 20 years I can think of, Gregor Townsend is possibly the very last player I'd expect to make it as a coach.

[AsLongAsBut100ofUs]

I just hope that when the inevitable happens and Gregor Townsend is sacked at the end of this season, that the idiots responsible for his appointment also get sacked.

Regardless of what happens this season, his appointment was an amateur and unjustifiable decision at the time. I haven't heard a single fan of rugby endorse it or come up with a reasonable explanation for it. There are those (and I am not one) who felt that Lineen had taken Glasgow as far as he could. Fine, I don't agree but I can see the logic and the reasoning. The appointment of Townsend was inexplicable, and so far his performance and that of his team has been true to form.

He was a wonderful player, but never an organiser or a leader. His brilliance came from his ability to play off the cuff and see space. He was a rare talent at 10 because his distribution skills were top notch but he was also a very good broken field runner with an eye for a gap. His kicking abilities were limited, and his defensive positioning unremarkable. He was also troubled by inconsistency, and was often on a different wavelength to the backs outside him. Of all the great Scotland players of the last 20 years I can think of, Gregor Townsend is possibly the very last player I'd expect to make it as a coach.

Thoughts on a replacement, fES? Home-grown (Kenny Murray down at Ayr or Chick Chalmers) or overseas?

[Smirnoffpriest]

I hate to make you feel worse, but from my experience of Welsh and celtic way of doing things I don't think it'll be inevitable that Townsend gets the push, even if he has a shocking season (which isn't guaranteed as they have strengthened, in spite of Andy). Particularly if he's as well thought of by the SRFA as he seems to be.

[George Carlin]

Smirnoff - that's a horrible thought and I hope that you're wrong.

If Toonie does flush a club that's made the play offs twice in three years down the crapper, then he has no place to hide. He looked poor and bereft of ideas with Scotland. He's looking wobblier than an Alex Salmond bobblehead with Glasgow.

If it's one thing Scotland fans can do, it's calling a spade a fecking shovel.

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

ASBO,
while it may be wishful thinking to speculate on a replacement, I think I agree with Smirnoff - although quite who the Andy is (Robinson ???) and who the SRFA are (SRU???) may need further clarification. We are stuck with Townsend just like the national team are stuck with Robinson, no matter the results.

Doomed, doomed ah tell ye !!!

[Smirnoffpriest]

Apologies for bringing up such a horrible idea and i of course meant gregor townsend not andy townsend the ex-footballer! My brains not quite with it today

[21st Century Schizoid Man]

Accepted dude - but who/what are the SRFA ???

[Smirnoffpriest]

The sru - or scottish rugby football union as i mistakenly called them, thou i thought it was more important to point out the townsend mistake 1st as its more embarrassing to get the name wrong of the person ur actually talking about!

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