Match thread - Edinburgh V the Zebras

Edinburgh

15 Greig Tonks

14 Lee Jones
13 Nick De Luca
12 Matt Scott
11 Tim Visser

10 Greig Laidlaw CAPTAIN
9 Richie Rees

1 John Yapp
2 Ross Ford
3 Willem Nel
4 Grant Gilchrist
5 Sean Cox
6 Stuart McInally
7 Ross Rennie
8 Netani Talei

Substitutes
16 Andy Titterrell
17 Allan Jacobsen
18 Geoff Cross
19 Perry Parker
20 Dimitri Basilaia
21 Chris Leck
22 John Houston
23 Tom Brown


Zebre

15 Sinoti SINOTI
14 Giovanbattista VENDITTI*
13 Matteo PRATICHETTI
12 Daniel HALANGAHU
11 Ruggero TREVISAN*
10 Alberto CHIESA*
9 Tito TEBALDI

8 Andries VAN SCHALKWYK
7 Mauro BERGAMASCO
6 Emiliano CAFFINI*
5 Josh SOLE
4 Quintin GELDENHUYS
3 Luciano LEIBSON
2 Carlo FESTUCCIA
1 Andrea DE MARCHI

Replacements :
16 Andrea MANICI*
17 Matias AGUERO
18 Luca REDOLFINI
19 Filippo CAZZOLA*
20 Filippo FERRARINI*
21 Alberto CHILLON*
22 Paolo BUSO
23 Alberto BENETTIN*

You should win this very easily

Tom Brown on the wing for Lee Jones makes most sense imo, with Scott coming back in midfield, and Rennie and Talei back in the backrow

Not going to judge Zebras to much, but having played two of the so called weaker teams, and shiped so many tries, I don't see them being able to challage for a win yet, losing BP's will be their aim.

Look to be poor, and BP win should be the aim for everyone playing them at present, I expect them to be much tougher opposition later in the season, now is a good time to play them.

Edinburgh away and Ulster at home are thier next 2 games, and I don't see them getting a point in either of them, (best chance would be losing BP if Edinburgh take them lightly).

Edinburgh BP win I think an dsitting nicely in the table after round 3.

Agree with pretty much all of the above.

Jones' form on the wing is an opportunity to play both Tonks and Brown at the same time. I haven't seen the Cardiff game yet but Jones was pretty awful against Munster and Brown showed up well pre-season against the Saints, whilst Tonks has barely put a foot wrong.

I suppose the counter-argument is that this is a great game for Jones to build some confidence and show what he can go. There's no doubting his talent. We have very few players who can stand-up his opposite number and score one-on-one opportunities, and when on form Jones can do that. But this season he looks nervous, almost as if he doesn't want the ball to come his way. I wonder whether a stint back in the sevens wouldn't do him some good.

Would be good to get the first choice pack on the field, and the sooner Matt Scott returns the better, although if he's fit I think we'll see Atiga back at 12. Hopefully his average performances thus far have been more down to fitness than ability. He wasn't particularly poor against Munster, it was more that he didn't do an awful lot more than tackle.

Can't fault your starting team, RDW, though I'd like to see Farndale to get a bench spot at least ahead of Sep Visser. Maybe even start him and have Brown covering wing and fullback from the bench.

Keep the same front five, especially impressed with Cross' scrummaging.

Seems harsh to drop McInally, I'd consider resting Denton and go with: McInally, Rennie, Talei.

Fingers crossed Scott is back this week and dropping Jones for Brown makes sense.

Would like to see either Fife or Farndale on the bench ahead of Visser jnr though.

FES - Jones got the ball 20m from the tryline just inside the 15 with one man to beat and basically just ran into him. To be fair it was Halfpenny against him but as Johnathan Davies said in his commentery (when he wasn't squeeling for the Blues) You'd have expected better from an International winger.

reallybored - McInally had a good run up the pitch against Munster but that aside he hasn't added a massive amount IMO. To me he's well behind Denton and Talei and, from initial glimpses, Basilaia as well.

Should be a bonus point victory, which would set them up very nicely for the trip to Leinster.

I would have the same team with Farndale given a start, and as suggested by Captain Sensible, have Brown covering wing and fullback. The boy obviously has talent, and to my mind it would better developing him over Penn/Visser jnr.

Add two stone and 4 inches to McInally and he'd be a great player, but for me he just doesn't have the bulk to be a truly top class number 8.

Against Munster he was actually very good. His positioning is excellent, several times he found himself in the right place at the right time, including covering some chips through from Keatley, but where I take issue is the general lack of thunder to his game. If you could take his rugby brain and stick it in Dave Denton then you'd have a truly outstanding player.

Ultimately I agree that he's a cover player, and that Talei and Denton are the outstanding number 8's in the squad, with Basilia just behind them. The difference is purely down to power. Edinburgh need a big carrier in that position and against a cohesive and robust defence like Munster, McInally just can punch those holes. Excellent at reading the game when things got loose, but when it's a mundate drive the ball up the park sort of scenario, then he doesn't give you much.

On further thought I would rather Fardndale than Visser Jnr or Penn - I'm just going on the basis that he hasn't chosen to develop the young guys so far this season really (Penn starting in pre season, Titterell instead of Walker etc.) and so may continue to leave them out.

On a side note - sounds like Fife had a stormer for Currie at the weekend.

I completely agree with everything said about McInally, ultimately he's just a little too small to be a top class back-row player.

Just suggesting that Edinburgh rotate their squad a bit while they're all fit and available, bare in mind we're playing Leinster next week. Give Denton a weekend off, doesn't have to travel to Italy and is a bit fresher for O'Brien and Heaslip.

Would like to see Basilia get a run at some point as well.

Thought McInally played a bit more like an extra 7 at times against Cardiff

The game is at Murrayfield.

Am I right in thinking that the Scotland players must be rested every 3-4 weeks? Sure I read that recently.

As I said, doesn't have to travel to Murrayfield.

McInallys not too small. He's the slightly taller and a wee bit lighter than the All Black 6, Liam Messam. Think his body proportions make him look short. He seems to have a long torso and short chunky legs. He's got plenty of time to develop a few more kgs of weight.

Think we'll probably see the front row rotated each week. So we'll probably get Yapp and Nel starting with Cross and Jacobsen coming off the bench around 55 mins. He might "rest" Ford for this one - we'll need him for more important games later in the season.

His official stats say 6ft 3 and 16.5st, which is small for a top level 8, especially since these stats tend to exaggerate anyway.

I also don't believe the 6ft 3 part having stood next to him.

Either way - we have all seen that he lacks physicality on the pitch, especially against big packs.

He's a great rugby player but unfortunately just not big enough to be more than a good squad player.

Convert to 7 maybe?

Bradley's approach here is going to be interesting.

Edinburgh won in Cardiff without Rennie, so will he really be given a full 80 here when Roddy Grant didn't play too badly against the Blues? If I was the coach, I would get my first choice loose forwards together for a full 80 before taking a trip to the RDS.

The simple fact is that Edinburgh now have back three talent to spare and (particularly as Jones made it to Edinburgh through special performances on the 7s circuit himself) it is not tenable to play Jones on current form. He's sucked wet bottom in three games now and there's no way in the world that Farndale shouldn't be on the bench, for a run out of half an hour at least. In what better circumstances shoud you be using your EDP players?

Brown on the wing is the obvious and safe choice, however and that's what the starting line up will be, I think. Tonks has done nothing wrong and should keep the 15 short. He remains me of Shug in the one season where he wasn't just a field cannon boot and absolutely nothing else.

The jury is still out on McInally but I agree that he looks slight - height is not so much the problem for me - he just looks so much less dynamic than either Basilia or Grant (for example), neither of whom are especially tall men themselves.

Incidentally, speaking of Scottish no. 8s, young Mitch Eadie (scorer of 3 tries in the U-20s JWC himself) makes a first Championship start for Bristol against Doncaster Knights this weekend. Very keen to see how he gets on.

Don't buy the McInally is too small stuff, he's the same height as Basilia, taller than Talei and 2" smaller than Dozer. He is the lightest of the 4 at 105 kilos, and that does mean his carrying is not as effective. At 22 he may still bulk up by a few Kgs and he does read games very well.

In general agreement that would like to see him rotated for this game to give some gametime to others.

justified sinner wrote:Don't buy the McInally is too small stuff, he's the same height as Basilia, taller than Talei and 2" smaller than Dozer. He is the lightest of the 4 at 105 kilos, and that does mean his carrying is not as effective. At 22 he may still bulk up by a few Kgs and he does read games very well.

In general agreement that would like to see him rotated for this game to give some gametime to others.

There's a guy that plays at the Stormers in South Africa who's one of their best carriers and work rate that's on another planet, he's played 2, 7(6 in SA), and 8 and he's only 5' 10 or 1.77m for metric people and 100kg. Any other county he'd have been selected for the national team but with the size obsessed Saffas won't get in the team.

With McInally, i don't think we need to worry about size when player skill can be more important.

OK, irrespective of his stats, does anyone disagree that he lacks physicality and the go forward that other players give us? As has been said Grant adds a lot more physicality and he is a midget height wise!

As I said I think he's got a great rugby brain and does the right thing, but will be held back if he can't improve his physicality. Jamie Heaslip is similar stats to him I think but in a whole different league.

I think McInally should move to 6.

Call me odd, but I see my backrows as:
8 - Big bruising ball carrying man mountain with tendancies to try and smash opposition players onto thier backside in the tackle.
7 - An athletic and speedy nuisence maker, trying to steal turnover ball and generally getting in the way of the opposiion
6 - A hard working tackle machine hell bent on putting in tackle after tackle and done on a technial level to try and present turn over oppertunities

or for edinburgh

Denton at 8
Rennie at 7
McInally at 6

would even be a good back row for the nation team in the absense of Kelly Brown and the apparent lack of from from Strokes!

I would tend to agree tigertattie, especially since Denton is Scotland's first choice number 8 - you'd have thought that Robinson would be asking Bradley to play him there!

Brown is back playing for the Saffacens, so I'm hoping to see Brown, Rennie and Denton in harness for the AIs.

We do have ridiculous depth in the backrow - at least three or four quality options in all three positions.

6 - Brown, Denton, Harley, McInally, Stroker
7 - Rennie, Barclay, Fusaro
8 - Denton, Brown, Beattie, Wilson, Vernon, Hogg, McInally

More interesting question for me is what we'll do with the centres. Houston was meh last week, not sure if Scott is still on pre-season and apparently James King had a good game for Gala at the weekend. That's not counting Atiga who still seems to have some fitness issues. So interesting who Bradley will pick at 12. NDL may well be due a rest as well. Not sure who will step in there.

Houston will always just be squad cover - and was very weak in the tackle for Cuthbert's try.

I'm just really hoping Cairnsy comes back strong - he's got all the attacking flair of De Luca but also does the right things at the right times (i.e. doesn't suffer from brain farts). Not as strong defensively but usually gets his man down.

He has however been out for a calendar year and the game seems to have moved on a massive amount in even that short space of time so lets hope he's not been left behind. Serious knee injury may have stolen some of his pace too, which was his strongest weapon.

I'm starting to worry about Atiga - I was quite excited about him coming but have been seriously underwhelmed so far. Let's hope he gets better when he's fit.

Matt Scott surely will be back this week? 2 weeks extra pre-season and one of the "easiest" games of the season.

Said this before, but I really rate Cairns at 15 rather than centre. When he comes back think we may well see him get gametime there. Particularly when Brown is off with Scotland.

Ali Hogg, now there was a boy who was snuffed by the national team!

Anyone know how he has gotten on since leaving not so sunny Edinburgh?

As for the centres, this is something Edinburgh and Scotland really ened to be working on now to find the right pairing. Now that (particularly Soctland) there is a 10 with a game brain and the ability to pass, the Scottish Centres are now going to actually be needed rather than the old role of being crash ball up the middle defensive players!

Are Matt Scott and Nick De Brain fart the answer?

I'd like to see Scott and cairns teaming up for a few games to see what happens!

Think the chat was that Cairnsy will be getting fit around the time of the AIs, so may not see him in action until late November or so.

Hat trick for Hogg against Scottish at the weekend, so still got it.

Are Matt Scott and Nick De Brain fart the answer?

NDL puts Visser into space, so right now, yes, he is the answer.

Always liked Hogg, would be great to see him get a couple more seasons of top level rugby.

Does anyone know why Matt Scott received extended "pre-season"?

reallybored wrote:

Does anyone know why Matt Scott received extended "pre-season"?

It would be a shock, but maybe it was actually some joined up thinking from the SRU?? Last year was his first full season as a pro and he ended up playing every game on the summer tour - maybe they want to give him a proper pre season and not rush him back to set him up well for the season. He is only 22 or something and maybe they felt he could do with some extra conditioning to see him through the season.

Think that Beattie might still be in pre-season because they're still playing Alex Tulou at 8 for Montpellier (who has just signed a contract extension until 2015 too, I notice). He played in the pre-season friendlies but I don't think that he's turned out in the league yet.

Not that it's a bad thing to not be associated with some of the early season season horsings that JB's team have sustained - like the 27-8 honking by Biarritz at the weekend, for example.

RDW_Scotland wrote:

reallybored wrote:

Does anyone know why Matt Scott received extended "pre-season"?

It would be a shock, but maybe it was actually some joined up thinking from the SRU?? Last year was his first full season as a pro and he ended up playing every game on the summer tour - maybe they want to give him a proper pre season and not rush him back to set him up well for the season. He is only 22 or something and maybe they felt he could do with some extra conditioning to see him through the season.

Possibly. He was juggling a final year of a law degree with breaking into the edinburgh and subsequently scotland team, if anybody deserves an extended pre-season, its him.

I have no problem with Mcinally at 8, there was a time when we lamented the lack of nous in the scottish pack. You can always work to increase your power, but you cant teach Mcinally's ingrained understanding of the game at this level. If he has to change position though, I think he would make a good 7. He does good stuff on the deck, a low centre of gravity, and as weve been saying, has great link play attributes due to his reading of the game.

However, I would like to see Basil get a start, and theres no better game to do it than this. Talei obviously needs gametime aswell before the Heineken comes round, as he should be first choice.

Id also like to see Parker get a start, and try and stake a claim before Van der Westhuizen arrives.

Can I go slightly off topic here?

ANDY MURRAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Back to rugby.

Good digression. Andy Murray = legend.

IBD - agree that there may be some good thinking behind this. With Atiga, King and Houston available, I'd like to think we can survive the first few games without Matt Scott, and give him a proper pre-season. Massive year for the lad, and not inconceivable that he makes the Lions next summer.

I never meant to suggest that I didn't rate McInally. In fact I was very impressed with him against Munster. I just don't think he's a strong enough ball carrier for the role that Edinburgh need him to fulfil. Were part of the Northampton pack, a pack full of hefty powerful ball carriers, then he'd be ideal - very similar sort of player to Phil Dowson. Great reading of the game and good allround skill set. Unfortunately Edinburgh need a bosher at 8, recognised by the fact that the other three options are all very physical players. In my view McInally should aim to add at least a stone of bulk to his frame, and focus on playing on the flank. He could be a very good "right place at the right time" blindside, or a good option at 7 in stodgy winter conditions when the ball is unlikely to be moved around much.

15 Sinoti SINOTI
14 Giovanbattista VENDITTI*
13 Matteo PRATICHETTI
12 Daniel HALANGAHU
11 Ruggero TREVISAN*
10 Alberto CHIESA*
9 Tito TEBALDI

8 Andries VAN SCHALKWYK
7 Mauro BERGAMASCO
6 Emiliano CAFFINI*
5 Josh SOLE
4 Quintin GELDENHUYS
3 Luciano LEIBSON
2 Carlo FESTUCCIA
1 Andrea DE MARCHI

Replacements :
16 Andrea MANICI*
17 Matias AGUERO
18 Luca REDOLFINI
19 Filippo CAZZOLA*
20 Filippo FERRARINI*
21 Alberto CHILLON*
22 Paolo BUSO
23 Alberto BENETTIN*

Not considered due to injury : Marco BORTOLAMI, Nicola CATTINA, Gonzalo GARCIA, Roberto QUARTAROLI*, Michael VAN VUREN

*Former member of the Italian Rugby Union (FIR) academy "Ivan Francescato" of Tirrenia

Recognise a few names from the Italian team so.we can't afford to be complacent - should defo be going for a bp win though

This is an acid test as to whether we are going to be competitive this season. Without wanting to come across as arrogant, a bonus point win must be the target. A lot depends on whether Lee Jones can have surgery before the game to connect his hands to the correct arms.

Not officially been announced yet, but the Hootsman says the team is:

1 Yapp
2 Ford
3 Nel
4 Gilchrist
5 Cox
6 McInally
7 Rennie
8 Talei
9 Rees
10 Laidlaw (hopefully his poor kicking last week was a blip)
11 Visser
12 Scott
13 De luca
14 Jones
15 Tonks

Sub - Chunk, Titterell, Cross, PJP, Basalaia, Leck, Houston, Brown

Not a fan of this front row rotation every game - props need 3 or 4 games in a row to get their groove on!

Strong team though - got to get a BP

Not quite; Titterel for Walker and Houston for Hunter.


Team here; http://www.edinburghrugby.org/news/edinburgh-news/4410-five-changes-for-zebre-crossing

http://www.edinburghrugby.org/news/edinburgh-news/4410-five-changes-for-zebre-crossing

Ah - Scotsman didn't say all the subs so was guessing!

I hope this rotation of the forwards doesn't happen every week - as I said forwards especially need a few games in a row to get into a rhythm. Hopefully he's just giving everyone a run out early doors!

Does this mean that Matt Scott is also essentially covering flyhalf?

That or Tonks I suppose.

Maybe keen to get Hunter some game time in the premiership since he's not even come off the bench the past 3 games.

Captain_Sensible wrote:Does this mean that Matt Scott is also essentially covering flyhalf?

Think Hunter will be

He's not on the bench - I had my subs bench wrong when I posted the suggested team from the Scotsman. The actual team is shown in the OP!

Right you are then, RDW, must be Scott or Tonks

Shame to break up the front-five after a good performance against Cardiff but hopefully the changes won't affect the strength of the side.

Why isn't Talei at 8, surely McInally isn't 1st choice. Same goes for when Denton's been playing, a whiff of Moffat about it.

Great to see Scott back, really exited to seeing if he can build on his impressive first season.

Jones is a lucky boy, three abject performance can't go unnoticed.

Fingers crossed for a BP.