MMA vs Boxing

Well we had Toney represent boxing where he embarassed himself. Now it seems Jeff Lacy is not retiring but is considering having a boxing match again Diaz. I've seen Diaz fight in MMA and whilst good, I wouldn't give him a chance against a washed up Lacy.

But are there any MMA players who could be good pro boxers and any pro bexers who could cut it in MMA? Julius Francis tried MMA and got it handed to him.

boxing = skill, discipline, speed, rhythm, dedication, intelligence, great history.

MMA = bunch of tarts in g-strings having a tickling competition on the floor.

They are 2 different sports. MMA comes from a amateur wrestling/martial arts background. Don't see it.

Sugar Boy Sweetie wrote:boxing = skill, discipline, speed, rhythm, dedication, intelligence, great history.

MMA = bunch of tarts in g-strings having a tickling competition on the floor.

Ouch. I wouldn't call taking an elbow or kick in the head a tickling contest. But that's straying from the OP.

I've given MMA enough of a chance over the years. The format of UFC, where there's one ruling body and the best usually fight the best is very good and should be an example to boxing of how to restore itself to former glories in the eyes of the wider public. I have nothing against MMA, I dont see it as a threat to boxing as its a different sport altogether. The idea of mixed style fighting is appealing, but invariably it goes to a grappling contest on the floor, which become tedious very quickly. Just not my cup of tea.

I hear you. Butare there any boxers who could make th transition and vice versa?

azania wrote:I hear you. Butare there any boxers who could make th transition and vice versa?

Don't see any they don't have the mat based amateur wrestling skills which is where most MMA fights are won and lost.

prettyboy1304 wrote:

azania wrote:I hear you. Butare there any boxers who could make th transition and vice versa?

Don't see any they don't have the mat based amateur wrestling skills which is where most MMA fights are won and lost.

You get some fighters who are difficult to take down so their fights are usually standing.

Any MMA guys who could cut it in pro boxing?

Probably but not at world level

azania wrote:I hear you. Butare there any boxers who could make th transition and vice versa?

I couldnt tell you whether there are any MMA guys that could make the transition as I'm not familiar with the individual fighters.

Its hard to say about boxers, because they focus on upper body offense and defense and use their feet only for mobility. The skills required to be a boxer are different - to box requires more discipline as there are a more limited amount of ways you can use you body - ie you can only punch, whereas in MMA you can punch, kick, knee, elbow, grapple, take-down, tie-up etc. Therefore boxers have to be more effective with a more limited offense. Having only seen the active crop of boxers throw punchers I'd say its impossible to say who'd be the best on the deck or doing other MMA stuff. I'd say that most boxers would struggle in MMA because just standing and throwing punches isnt effective against guys competent at take-downs and floor grappling. A natural boxer would struggle big time.

But are there any MMA players who could be good pro boxers and any pro bexers who could cut it in MMA? Julius Francis tried MMA and got it handed to him..

-----------------------------

Ray Mercer had a stint in MMA and recorded an early knockout victory over a former champion in Tim Sylvia. He than got beaten by Kimbo Slice.

There was talk that Anderson Silva (considered by many as the No.1 P4P MMA fighter) is thinking about returning to the boxing ring (he was a former boxer) to fight Roy Jones Jr. If he did, I'd expect him to lose quite easily, even to the current zombie version of Jones.

Fedor Emelianenko at his prime appeared to possess good handspeed and decent stand-up boxing skills. Would have been interesting to have seen him in a boxing match during that period.

I remember Andrei Arlovski (trained by Freddie Roach and one of Fedor's victims) was thinking about making a cross over to boxing to challenge for a HW title.

With his natural athleticism, kickboxing and martial arts background, I'd imagine David Haye could be fairly succesful if he made the move to MMA. I think he's actually suggested a few years ago that he considered making the switch.

i think quite a few boxers have dabbled in kickboxing before- was it danny williams or sprott or someone like that who was a world kickboxing champion before he started boxing? i think big heavyweights like wlad or vitali with KO power would do well.

maybe some american boxers would do better as i imagine some would probably wrestle in college etc, so would have the matt skills.

just checked and it was matt skelton

he actually had one MMA fight in PRIDE and lost via rear choke in the first round............

eddyfightfan wrote:just checked and it was matt skelton

he actually had one MMA fight in PRIDE and lost via rear choke in the first round............

Mayorga was going to try it out against Din Thomas. The trash talking (all one sided and guess who) was funny to say the least. Don King pulled rank on it though.

The big punchers in boxing will always have a chance until they got brought down to the mat and then without years of training or a freakish natural mat wrestling ability they would get beat easily. It takes years to learn submission holds and the ways to avoid them being applied or getting out of them. A fighter who spent most of his life training for one sport would find it hard to change to another.

prettyboy1304 wrote:The big punchers in boxing will always have a chance until they got brought down to the mat and then without years of training or a freakish natural mat wrestling ability they would get beat easily. It takes years to learn submission holds and the ways to avoid them being applied or getting out of them. A fighter who spent most of his life training for one sport would find it hard to change to another.

Very true. Wrestling appears to be the most solid base needed. Boxers who have done the transformation havent really been a success. But wrestlers have been successful even without great knowledge of submission. They simply lie on top and dry hump until the fight ends.

azania wrote:

prettyboy1304 wrote:The big punchers in boxing will always have a chance until they got brought down to the mat and then without years of training or a freakish natural mat wrestling ability they would get beat easily. It takes years to learn submission holds and the ways to avoid them being applied or getting out of them. A fighter who spent most of his life training for one sport would find it hard to change to another.

Very true. Wrestling appears to be the most solid base needed. Boxers who have done the transformation havent really been a success. But wrestlers have been successful even without great knowledge of submission. They simply lie on top and dry hump until the fight ends.

Theirs a bit more to wrestling than that. The wwe isn't a great example on the sport of wrestling.

Is wwe wrestling?

azania wrote:Is wwe wrestling?

No it's sports entertainment, TNA is the other big promotion it is a bit more like wrestling with some of their athletes but you really need to watch college wrestling or amateur wrestling to get a grasp of what the sprot is. I did amateur wrestling for a while it aint easy.

prettyboy1304 wrote:

azania wrote:Is wwe wrestling?

No it's sports entertainment, TNA is the other big promotion it is a bit more like wrestling with some of their athletes but you really need to watch college wrestling or amateur wrestling to get a grasp of what the sprot is. I did amateur wrestling for a while it aint easy.

I can appreciate that. I did judo and got thrown around like a rag doll before sticking with boxing as my combat sport of choice.

azania wrote:

prettyboy1304 wrote:

azania wrote:Is wwe wrestling?

No it's sports entertainment, TNA is the other big promotion it is a bit more like wrestling with some of their athletes but you really need to watch college wrestling or amateur wrestling to get a grasp of what the sprot is. I did amateur wrestling for a while it aint easy.

I can appreciate that. I did judo and got thrown around like a rag doll before sticking with boxing as my combat sport of choice.

I went to boxing and got my jaw and nose broke was 17 and sparred with Scott Harrison because my dad worked in his uncles gym at the time.

prettyboy1304 wrote:

azania wrote:

prettyboy1304 wrote:

azania wrote:Is wwe wrestling?

No it's sports entertainment, TNA is the other big promotion it is a bit more like wrestling with some of their athletes but you really need to watch college wrestling or amateur wrestling to get a grasp of what the sprot is. I did amateur wrestling for a while it aint easy.

I can appreciate that. I did judo and got thrown around like a rag doll before sticking with boxing as my combat sport of choice.

I went to boxing and got my jaw and nose broke was 17 and sparred with Scott Harrison because my dad worked in his uncles gym at the time.

No wonder. I sparred with Michael Watson and he went very easy. My whole body ached for weeks. We went to school together. Same school that produced John H Stracey and Francis Ampofo.

My dad trains amateur boxers in Glasgow and trained me. Got me the sparring with Harrison as a present it was just before he went into serious training for the McCullogh fight. He was a world champion at the time. The worst gift I ever got. Went back to wrestling when it healed but quit a year later.

as stated mercer beat a former UFC champ in Tim Sylvia - however big Tim is considered to be the udley of MMA!

Arvoloski has a glass chin.

The reality is, the boxers and mma stars who could make the move across are probably not top flight stars.

Out of the famous people in mma, I would say that Paul Daley (who just got beat by diaz) and Dan Hardy might have a chance in a boxing ring.

i think that it would be easier to transfer more quickly from mma to boxing than vice versa.

Hobo wrote:as stated mercer beat a former UFC champ in Tim Sylvia - however big Tim is considered to be the udley of MMA!

Arvoloski has a glass chin.

The reality is, the boxers and mma stars who could make the move across are probably not top flight stars.

Out of the famous people in mma, I would say that Paul Daley (who just got beat by diaz) and Dan Hardy might have a chance in a boxing ring.

i think that it would be easier to transfer more quickly from mma to boxing than vice versa.

The only similarites are they are contact sports. They are 2 very different skills there might be some that could cross over but they would be competing at a low level.

Anyone ever watch Gina Carano fight? She seems to have good striking ability and a background in Muay Thai so I think she would do well in boxing especially as female boxers need less fights to get to the top level, and she is smoking hot.

bellchees wrote:Anyone ever watch Gina Carano fight? She seems to have good striking ability and a background in Muay Thai so I think she would do well in boxing especially as female boxers need less fights to get to the top level, and she is smoking hot.

Just googled her

prettyboy1304 wrote:

bellchees wrote:Anyone ever watch Gina Carano fight? She seems to have good striking ability and a background in Muay Thai so I think she would do well in boxing especially as female boxers need less fights to get to the top level, and she is smoking hot.

Just googled her

I don't know how she can be that good looking and be a fighter, doesn't make sense. Back to the topic, I think boxers going over to MMA is just crazy. Never have I seen a boxer go over while still physically in their prime. What possesses them to think that now they're no good at what they've been doing most of their lives taking up a new combat sport is a good idea.

azania wrote:

prettyboy1304 wrote:

azania wrote:Is wwe wrestling?

No it's sports entertainment, TNA is the other big promotion it is a bit more like wrestling with some of their athletes but you really need to watch college wrestling or amateur wrestling to get a grasp of what the sprot is. I did amateur wrestling for a while it aint easy.

I can appreciate that. I did judo and got thrown around like a rag doll before sticking with boxing as my combat sport of choice.

I do a fair bit of judo - and a lot of the judo boys like MMA a great deal.

I however, think MMA is a pretty poor spectacle. Fundamentally - watching 1 guy tie up the other guys arms then pound his defenceless head with elbows isn't really my thing. Perhaps to make it more exciting they should drop the gloves and start using chains or nails on their hands instead. And instead of wasting everybody's time with distance kicks that never land - why not arm them with swords.

The skill level to be good at MMA is enormous. But the additional rules in boxing (no knees kicks or elbows) benefit boxing as a spectacle IMO.

oxring wrote:

azania wrote:

prettyboy1304 wrote:

azania wrote:Is wwe wrestling?

No it's sports entertainment, TNA is the other big promotion it is a bit more like wrestling with some of their athletes but you really need to watch college wrestling or amateur wrestling to get a grasp of what the sprot is. I did amateur wrestling for a while it aint easy.

I can appreciate that. I did judo and got thrown around like a rag doll before sticking with boxing as my combat sport of choice.

I do a fair bit of judo - and a lot of the judo boys like MMA a great deal.

I however, think MMA is a pretty poor spectacle. Fundamentally - watching 1 guy tie up the other guys arms then pound his defenceless head with elbows isn't really my thing. Perhaps to make it more exciting they should drop the gloves and start using chains or nails on their hands instead. And instead of wasting everybody's time with distance kicks that never land - why not arm them with swords.

The skill level to be good at MMA is enormous. But the additional rules in boxing (no knees kicks or elbows) benefit boxing as a spectacle IMO.

I don't like MMA as a spectacle some of the stuff they do requires no skill. I am a wrestling fan and don't mind watching some martial arts stuff but not MMA it's poor stuff. Don't know why guys who have been trained all their lifes to box think they can take this up. It's just going to end badly for them the minute they are in a tie up or on the mat.

MMA is more like WWE than Boxing.

Dana White/Vince Mcmahon are running organisations. I know UFC isn't all of MMA, but in reality it pretty much is. They decide on the match-ups and tell the fans who are the best. Until UFC/MMA have independant credible sanctioning bodies it won't progress far as a sport.

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:MMA is more like WWE than Boxing.

Dana White/Vince Mcmahon are running organisations. I know UFC isn't all of MMA, but in reality it pretty much is. They decide on the match-ups and tell the fans who are the best. Until UFC/MMA have independant credible sanctioning bodies it won't progress far as a sport.

Unlike bixing though, the best are not kept apart.

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:MMA is more like WWE than Boxing.

Dana White/Vince Mcmahon are running organisations. I know UFC isn't all of MMA, but in reality it pretty much is. They decide on the match-ups and tell the fans who are the best. Until UFC/MMA have independant credible sanctioning bodies it won't progress far as a sport.

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:MMA is more like WWE than Boxing.

Dana White/Vince Mcmahon are running organisations. I know UFC isn't all of MMA, but in reality it pretty much is. They decide on the match-ups and tell the fans who are the best. Until UFC/MMA have independant credible sanctioning bodies it won't progress far as a sport.

In the ring MMA techniques are more like wrestling techniques that WWE is based on. So what MMA need is more governing bodies like boxing?

facepalm

Anyway, you think that MMA is progressing well as a sport? I'm not denying UFC's commercial success, but even that has leveled out.

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:

facepalm

Anyway, you think that MMA is progressing well as a sport? I'm not denying UFC's commercial success, but even that has leveled out.

UFC has just bought Strikeforce which was the biggest competitor. They have all the best fighters now. They are growing and will soon control the whole game imo. More governing bodies are needed like a hole in the head.

azania wrote:

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:MMA is more like WWE than Boxing.

Dana White/Vince Mcmahon are running organisations. I know UFC isn't all of MMA, but in reality it pretty much is. They decide on the match-ups and tell the fans who are the best. Until UFC/MMA have independant credible sanctioning bodies it won't progress far as a sport.

Unlike bixing though, the best are not kept apart.

They're only the best because Dana White tells you they are.

Fedor was easily the best MMA HW for years, how many great UFC matches was he in?

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:

facepalm

Anyway, you think that MMA is progressing well as a sport? I'm not denying UFC's commercial success, but even that has leveled out.

MMA has progressed very well as a sport and it's because the best fight the best. They give the fans the fights they want to see. Independent governing bodies would prevent that from happening setting the sport back years boxing has proved that to be the case.

azania wrote:

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:

facepalm

Anyway, you think that MMA is progressing well as a sport? I'm not denying UFC's commercial success, but even that has leveled out.

UFC has just bought Strikeforce which was the biggest competitor. They have all the best fighters now. They are growing and will soon control the whole game imo. More governing bodies are needed like a hole in the head.

Is that a good thing though. It'd be like saying if Don King controlled all the top fighters boxing would be better.

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:

azania wrote:

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:

facepalm

Anyway, you think that MMA is progressing well as a sport? I'm not denying UFC's commercial success, but even that has leveled out.

UFC has just bought Strikeforce which was the biggest competitor. They have all the best fighters now. They are growing and will soon control the whole game imo. More governing bodies are needed like a hole in the head.

Is that a good thing though. It'd be like saying if Don King controlled all the top fighters boxing would be better.

If he made the big fights happen that the fans want to see it would be.

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:

azania wrote:

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:MMA is more like WWE than Boxing.

Dana White/Vince Mcmahon are running organisations. I know UFC isn't all of MMA, but in reality it pretty much is. They decide on the match-ups and tell the fans who are the best. Until UFC/MMA have independant credible sanctioning bodies it won't progress far as a sport.

Unlike bixing though, the best are not kept apart.

They're only the best because Dana White tells you they are.

Fedor was easily the best MMA HW for years, how many great UFC matches was he in?

Outside of Fedor, all the best were in UFC. Especially so when PRIDE went belly up. I dont need Dana telling me that Anderson SIlva is the mest MW, Bones Jones the beat LHW, GSP the best WW and so on.

the best ALWAYS fight the best in MMA, they fight more often and if there is any dispute a rematch is arranged pretty sharpish- boxing could learn something from them in that respect.

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:

azania wrote:

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:

facepalm

Anyway, you think that MMA is progressing well as a sport? I'm not denying UFC's commercial success, but even that has leveled out.

UFC has just bought Strikeforce which was the biggest competitor. They have all the best fighters now. They are growing and will soon control the whole game imo. More governing bodies are needed like a hole in the head.

Is that a good thing though. It'd be like saying if Don King controlled all the top fighters boxing would be better.

It was better. At least the big fights were made. Take a look at some of DK's cards. They were stacked. Say what you want about him, but he always delivered for the fans.

It's a form of entertainment you need to give the people what they want. People can say what they want about him but boxing was better when DK was the top man.

But Don King would select his top fighters based upon popularity and how little they're prepared to be payed and freeze all the talented ones out that won't conform. This approach might attract many more casual fans but Boxing as a sport would suffer massively. This is what I see when I watch UFC.

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:But Don King would select his top fighters based upon popularity and how little they're prepared to be payed and freeze all the talented ones out that won't conform. This approach might attract many more casual fans but Boxing as a sport would suffer massively. This is what I see when I watch UFC.

In UFC the top guys fight the top guys it's what they have based their success on. Popular fighters will always get more chances because they are marketable.

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:But Don King would select his top fighters based upon popularity and how little they're prepared to be payed and freeze all the talented ones out that won't conform. This approach might attract many more casual fans but Boxing as a sport would suffer massively. This is what I see when I watch UFC.

As opposed to now where the best always fight the best I see. What we have now is the best (allegedly) fighting a 40 year old has been and some are trying to sell that as legit. Do me a favour. Bring back King. At least fights got made.

azania wrote:

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:But Don King would select his top fighters based upon popularity and how little they're prepared to be payed and freeze all the talented ones out that won't conform. This approach might attract many more casual fans but Boxing as a sport would suffer massively. This is what I see when I watch UFC.

As opposed to now where the best always fight the best I see. What we have now is the best (allegedly) fighting a 40 year old has been and some are trying to sell that as legit. Do me a favour. Bring back King. At least fights got made.

Bring back DK
We need to stop agreeing with each other or I'm starting a Calzaghe thread.

OK, remember when Don King had his little WBA HW merry go round a few years back. Valuez, Chagaev, Ruiz...and a few more were all controlled by Don King and just took it in turns to fight eachother for the title. Now if Don KIng controlled all the titles and froze everyone out except these guys the casual fan would think it's great seeing the 'best fight the best' all the time. But because boxing isn't controlled by one promoter we've had the fortune of watching modern greats like the K's, Haye and Herbie Hide.

Jukebox Timebomb wrote:because boxing isn't controlled by one promoter we've had the fortune of watching modern greats like Haye and Herbie Hide.