The 8 - 9 blind

How many times in international rugby do we see the 8 - 9 blind anymore?

How many attacking scrums do we see that run set up plays these days instead of scoring plays? I know the game has moved on, and I know the game is far more sophisticated today than 5 years ago, but simple moves like this were never about sophistication, they weren't about tieing the right players into contact, or manipulating defencive organisations, they were about execution, and when executed on the button they are unstoppable.

There are tons of plays that have been written to the history books purely because the game is starting to take itself too seriously, I firmly believe that a few of these old plays still have some life left in them, and with some modern thinking and actual thought could again prove defences problems.

I know it's a bit random but working with elite junior teams recently has really wound me up. These development teams are being prepared for professional rugby, and the focus on their development has become performance over skill aqcuisition, but in reality they are playing overly complicated moves to breakdown the defences when simpler better executed moves with higher skill levels would be just as devestating...

Rant over that is all.

Yeah I've thought about this from time to time. NZ used to have a heap of scrum moves 5m out that resulted in Zinzan or Michael Jones strolling in. Surely defences haven't evolved so much as to negate the threat of these moves. They still have to be bound.

With regards to the scrum your exactly right disney, but I suppose when was the last time you saw a flanker actually bound, not to mention a SH onside?

The allblacks moves were excellent purely because their skill levels were high, execution perfect and most importantly they knew it!!!

Teams today would never go wide from first phase ball, it's too risky and offers a turnover chance, but from my POV it also represents the best attacking options with ball in hand, open field 5 on 5.

Teams today will only risk going wide once they have worked their way into a position where the odds are 90/10 in their favour, and they still don't convert 50% of the time because of low skill levels!!

Todays game is too tight, and too backward thinking IMO, especially as that int mentality filters down to grass roots!!!

Wales use the blindside a lot, too much sometimes. to drag loose forwards in from the backs more often than not.

One of my favourite blindside attacks is Gareth Edwards vs Scotland.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbw6_MO8pHY


Now that is how you use the blindside lads.

Dagg's try against Aussie in the first RC game showed NZ still try to use it. Which is great as I'm totally in your boat. Half the players stuck in one spot? Come on every coach should be making up moves.

McCaw scored off one that he should have been pinged for in 2010-he detached early-it was just timing though as if the timing was spot on he would have scored anyway. Don't blame the ref for that though-blame Genia. He had a tendency to creep behind the scrum to cover the openside and Henry hatched that move to take advantage.

Lets not get this confused though, I'm not advocating the blind side as more of an option, Edwards try as great as it was was a dart around a ruck, not a set play.

Disney your Genia thing is bang on, I heard a speech that Henry gave about using the opposition tapes to devise gameplans, not list gameplans and work out which one works, actually throw the playbook out of the window and say if Genia gets to this position, he must leave a position that isn't covered, how do we exploit that?

Thats what I believe rugby is, chess, except today the only team playing chess is NZ, everyone else is either importing their peices or trying to match them by playing connect 4!!

It is very hard for the number 8 to pick the ball up now. Even if the opposition have not done that unilatteral wheel that makes the flankers closer to the ball than the attacking teams flankers, we see the binds slipped so much that the defensive back row can grab him the milli-second his hands touch the ball.

Admittedly not a blindside run, but Dayglo would have been jumped on before he started moving in his try on 2 minutes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RYOT0KrsZk

I love the jink from Howley there 'oh ref I wouldve had him had you not been there... oh well'

LT your right, but from my POV if your opposing flanker is barely binding exploit it, play a back row move that force him wider and leaves the 8 with too much ground to make up to cover.

Look at what NZ are doing with centrefield scrums at the moment. Two players each side and Dagg and Carter in a straight line behind. I think this is brilliant. Because they will have gone through every scenario and every action the defence would take-and have a set play to exploit the space left. Dagg ran around the outside and that space was created easily-Carter said it was the first time he passed it to Dagg as all other defences in training took him but that was how Oz defended it. This means that Carter would have exploited the space in other areas. If they go right it's the same scenario. Genius and kudos must be given to Foster for that.

Thats not the only example, although I guarentee there are no other international coaches looking at set plays and checking out what live defences do to react.

Ive seen the welsh boys running plays and Howley has them rehearsing over and over, which is very usefull when just about everytime the ball is played during a game it goes off script!!

LondonTiger wrote:It is very hard for the number 8 to pick the ball up now. Even if the opposition have not done that unilatteral wheel that makes the flankers closer to the ball than the attacking teams flankers, we see the binds slipped so much that the defensive back row can grab him the milli-second his hands touch the ball.

Admittedly not a blindside run, but Dayglo would have been jumped on before he started moving in his try on 2 minutes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RYOT0KrsZk

Another reason you don't see these moves anymore is because when a team gets a push in a scrum hey more often than not keep pushing to try and get a penalty.The scrum is becoming more removed from the game of rugby and is turning into a separate competition,imo a lot of scrum offences will need to be reduced to a free kick or the scrum will become less and less relevant to the game.

The scrum has changed completely as an attacking weapon so we see far fewer moves.

I despair sometimes when I see Wales persist with the short side mainly because the skill isn't there and it doesn't suck in enough defenders (also because often they just missed a clear chance to go wide!!)

It's not called the blind side for nothing - Mikey Phillips has run up so many blind alleys he might as well wear blinkers. Talk about the element of surprise......

You seem to forget that so many of the attacking ploys are now illegal,the wheel for example.The way the scrums are set mean the second shove is redundant.Detaching from the scrum before the ball is heeled so the flankers can`t work back row ploys.The dummy half move is illegal.Peels from the Lineout are probably technically illegal now [not sure].But anyway are seldom seen,one and two man lineouts also may betechnically illegal.The Setting of the scrum was far better in amateur days and Scrums rarely collapsed certainly not deliberately as now to milk penalties or free kicks.The New method of setting the scrum is siupposed to be a safety thing,but really is far more dangerous.Time was no Prop worth his salt would take down a scrum it was too dangerous.But then of Course a Prop was picked for his forward skills especially scrummaging first not hanging out on the wing waiting for the ball.

You seem to forget that so many of the attacking ploys are now illegal,the wheel for example.The way the scrums are set mean the second shove is redundant.Detaching from the scrum before the ball is heeled so the flankers can`t work back row ploys.The dummy half move is illegal.Peels from the Lineout are probably technically illegal now [not sure].But anyway are seldom seen,one and two man lineouts also may betechnically illegal.The Setting of the scrum was far better in amateur days and Scrums rarely collapsed certainly not deliberately as now to milk penalties or free kicks.The New method of setting the scrum is siupposed to be a safety thing,but really is far more dangerous.Time was no Prop worth his salt would take down a scrum it was too dangerous.But then of Course a Prop was picked for his forward skills especially scrummaging first not hanging out on the wing waiting for the ball.