Chris Ashton attacked in London nightclub.

While on a post match night out with team mates and partners last night, Chris Ashton was attacked by a man who struck him with a beer glass. Ashton was not seriously hurt and did not require stitches to several minor cuts. He is said to have been a wholly innocent victim.

He was apparently in conversation with two men who he did not know, when one of them attacked him. Ashton was said to be shocked and mortified by the incident. It is well known that Stuart Lancaster has laid down a firm disciplinary code and Ashton is concerned how the incident may be viewed by England's head coach.

Now Sarries are the nearest team to me and they have a great reputation for their work in the local community and the players themselves ensure that high standards of behaviour are observed off the pitch. I hope this incident doesn't harm Ashton's England place, and by the sound of it he did nothing wrong.

Source - The Sunday Telegraph.

What kind of lowlife glasses somebody, regardless of circumstances. Glad he's ok.

http://www.saracens.com/news/view.php?Id=7165


To prevent confusion, the club would like to clarify events surrounding an incident which took place in London on Saturday.

Several Saracens players, together with their wives and girlfriends, were enjoying a quiet evening when an uninvited stranger approached the group. A brief altercation occurred, which resulted in a friend of this stranger attacking Chris Ashton with a glass. The Saracens winger suffered two minor cuts on the left side of his face, but neither required stitches.

Edward Griffiths, CEO, said: “Since arriving at the club, Chris has proved himself an outstanding member of the Saracens family, on and off the field. It is a reality that well known sports people are provoked by strangers and subsequent events are instantly tweeted. People will inevitably see this story and say an England rugby player is in trouble again. For clarity, Chris Ashton is not in trouble at all. On the contrary, he was celebrating an anniversary with his girlfriend and showed admirable restraint.”

The guy who glassed him must be an italian fan, they hate it whenever he does his swan dive.

I am not one to have been in too many bar fights, though I have seen a few, might even have been involved as well, a long long time ago.

But the nature of all fighting is usually because something provoked another enough to react in the most Neanderthal of ways.

The story from Saracens is very clear that the incident was unprovoked. Which somehow makes it harder to believe.

I'm sure there was some pigtail, (or cornrole/dreadlock) pulling involved prior to the incident. Chris Ashton does have a well documented reputation for trying to antagonise and annoy others.

Unwarranted and unworthy insinuation, maestag. I'm not Ashton's biggest fan but you can't make that kind of assumption, complete contrary to everything we have heard to date, based on the little you have seen of Ashton's character. Drunks will happily fight other people on no provocation

whilst I agree that it is unusual for an assault to occur without a reason (take note I haven't said a GOOD reason), it could well be that the reason is he is Chris Ashton and a famous rugby player, and our assaulter could have just been a bit of a trophy hunter. ok we all know Ashton has a bit of "swagger" bout himself but lets give this a chance to be investigated before we all decide what happened!

Sorry CJ but the Sarries press release is so ridiculously one sided, the players reputation so prevalent, the basic knowledge we all have of having been out celebrating and socialising after a match that there is always two distinct sides to a story.

If you chose to swallow this without chewing feel free, but I find it very very hard too follow your lead.

maestegmafia wrote:Sorry CJ but the Sarries press release is so ridiculously one sided, the players reputation so prevalent, the basic knowledge we all have of having been out celebrating and socialising after a match that there is always two distinct sides to a story.

If you chose to swallow this without chewing feel free, but I find it very very hard too follow your lead.

Just out of curiosity Maes, would your view of immediate condemnation been any different if this had been an Ospreys player? Like, say, I don't know, picking one at random ... Andrew Bishop ... being charged with assault after getting himself into a fight in a nightclub? Or half the team trashing a local rugby club at the Xmas party? Hmmm?

Mate of mine got glassed - luckily no damage other than broken glasses that I recall. His 'sin' if any was to step in and break up an incident with the attacker and someone else. The attacker was acquitted - although he lost his job as a university lecturer. The fact that my friend is about 6'3'', over 20 stone and one of the strongest people I have ever met probably didnt help.

Tools are tools but accusing Ashton of being at all responsible for the incident without any evidence is pretty poor.

I was walking on Swansea beach with my then girlfriend now my wife. A group were having a BBQ and walked past them to get on the beach. Two of them followed and threatened me. A girl came down to talk them down and then one of their mates pulled them away. They were drinking and wanted a fight. That was in the middle of a Saturday afternoon. I've also known people who go out on a night looking for a fight.

But hey, he's English so he MUST have done something to deserve it hey Maesteg. No smoke without fire and all that. No evidence or suggestion made by anyone that he provoked but let's rolls with it shall we?

Sad thing is I'm not even surprised you jumped on this like you have.

Seriously Maesteg, you need to drop this chip on your shoulder about Saints players.

What reputation does Ashton have for winding people up? He pushed Manu for what he believed to be a tackle without the ball, he pulled Tuilagis hair in a tackle (stupid yes) but a deliberate attempt to wind someone up, i doubt it. If you were going to provoke someone into hitting you it wouldnt be big Alex!

To me the fact that he was out other players and their girlfriends/wives shows that they wouldn't really be after starting fights with other men for no reason. I'm inclined to agree with Baggy and that the fact that he is Chris Ashton was enough reason for whoever did it.

Casartelli wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Sorry CJ but the Sarries press release is so ridiculously one sided, the players reputation so prevalent, the basic knowledge we all have of having been out celebrating and socialising after a match that there is always two distinct sides to a story.

If you chose to swallow this without chewing feel free, but I find it very very hard too follow your lead.

Just out of curiosity Maes, would your view of immediate condemnation been any different if this had been an Ospreys player? Like, say, I don't know, picking one at random ... Andrew Bishop ... being charged with assault after getting himself into a fight in a nightclub? Or half the team trashing a local rugby club at the Xmas party? Hmmm?

Casterelli "immediate condemnation" is a tad unreasonable, I only said that this story has more to be told than what we are offered by Saracens RFC's version of events.

It is more the obtuse angle of the article and announcement by Saracens rather than the acused that is the important mediator in this debate.

As you question my thoughts whilst receiving similar news then I say that I would certainly consider the player concerned's character when such stories prevail. Thus I would have a rather different inclination towards a story surrounding Andrew Bishop, a player who conducts himself well on the field and has little reputation or exposure off it, than a story about Mike Phillips who, like Ashton, is temperamental, petulant, volatile and explosive both on and off the pitch.

I was abroad when the Taibach rugby club story was in the press. I don't know much about it. Though from what I do know, ospreys players misbehaved appallingly and were chastised throughout the media for it, rightly so as the Ospreys players involved were errant and stupid and it was rather obvious what they had done wrong..

In the case of this Ashton "Glassing" story this morning there is also a onesided nature conveyed. Unlike the story of Taibach RFC where it was believable and accepted that the players were massively in the wrong and their story conveyed as such, in this Ashton story it is hard to believe that there isn't more of a story to be told and maybe it should be so, before it is considered that all facts are in the open..

Do you disagree with my reasoning or with my thought that it is more unusual for a member of the public to just glass someone without huge provocation than it is for someone to decide to "glass" someone without any provocation.

Even considering the most violent and alcohol impared nature of some people found in London bars the act of "Glassing" someone seems considered rather than an immediate reaction.

It might even be considered a last resort means of self defence.

What has Ashton EVER done off the field?

Even considering the most violent and alcohol impared nature of some people found in London bars the act of "Glassing" someone seems considered rather than an immediate reaction.

It might even be considered a last resort means of self defence.

Are you Poopie me? Stop hiding behind careful words and say what you mean.

MAybe the guy only meant to push him and forgot he had a glass in his hand a la Max Evans

HammerofThunor wrote:I was walking on Swansea beach with my then girlfriend now my wife. A group were having a BBQ and walked past them to get on the beach. Two of them followed and threatened me. A girl came down to talk them down and then one of their mates pulled them away. They were drinking and wanted a fight. That was in the middle of a Saturday afternoon. I've also known people who go out on a night looking for a fight.

But hey, he's English so he MUST have done something to deserve it hey Maesteg. No smoke without fire and all that. No evidence or suggestion made by anyone that he provoked but let's rolls with it shall we?

Sad thing is I'm not even surprised you jumped on this like you have.

In your story there was no relevence in saying that it was in Swansea or stating that my opinion is relative to Ashton's nationality.

You are being unreasonably presumptuous with the later and god knows what you are trying to convey with the former.

I gave an example of someone attempting to attack someone over no provocation (it does happen). I was working under the assumption that people are the same everywhere and if it can happen to me in Swansea it can happen in London. Unless you're suggesting that people in Swansea are unusually prone to entering fits of rage that is a local problem.

I was out of order suggesting it was due to him being English. I'm sure you did the same when it Roberts or Bradley Davies.

Its not unreasonably presumptuous given your track record Maest, nor how ridiculous your initial statement was no matter how much you try and back pedal on it now.

Theres no reason to believe that there MUST have been some significant culpability on Ashtons part other than your own prejudice and agenda.

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:Its not unreasonably presumptuous given your track record Maest, nor how ridiculous your initial statement was no matter how much you try and back pedal on it now.

Theres no reason to believe that there MUST have been some significant culpability on Ashtons part other than your own prejudice and agenda.

My reputation?

Sorry if that when I read this article I thought it was incredibly unlikely to be the full story annoys you so much that you perceive slinging mud and allocating me a "reputation" as well as an "Agenda" as your concept of discussion!!!

Theres is perfect reason to believe that there may have been some significant culpability on Ashtons part, it is highlighted by its absence and his reputation far more than what you are un-reasonably allocating to mine.

In what twisted universe does the absence of something proving Ashton is culpable prove that Ashton was culpable? That's literally what you've just said!

Didn't read all of this thread but it seems some are saying that there is no smoke without fire and that 'reasons' must have been in the air when someone used a beer glass on Ashton.

I ask what reason would that be? He said something? He made a comment? He sneered? He joked? He insulted someone verbally?

All legitimate reasons for punching a glass into someones face/head?

Maybe a drunk man might be better learning how to fight back verbally, using a smart and abrasive tongue, rather than always resorting to the easy option of nothing-much-to-say but here's me fist or bottle.

We don't know the facts. There might be more to things than have been reported. It is possible that there was provocation but on the face of it there was none, and until anything new comes out I'd be very careful to say anything

The problem with what was written by someone above is that it sounds all too like the 'Dressed like that she was asking for it' defense

ChequeredJersey wrote:In what twisted universe does the absence of something proving Ashton is culpable prove that Ashton was culpable? That's literally what you've just said!

Literally almost what I wrote. But it isn't what I wrote though is it.

Why the antagonised and twisted supposition....?

Innocent until proven guilty maes. I don't think the world of Ashton but at the clubs in the late hours you'll get some nutters who need nothing, and I mean NOTHING, to kick off. Some even go out with the aim of looking for it. We've all seen the types or at least everyone who has attended nightclubs has.

Sarries wouldn't go out of their way to try and pull the wool over everyone's eyes if Ashton was in any way guilty. He isn't worth that risk and deception, I doubt any player is.

maestegmafia wrote:I am not one to have been in too many bar fights, though I have seen a few, might even have been involved as well, a long long time ago.

But the nature of all fighting is usually because something provoked another enough to react in the most Neanderthal of ways.

The story from Saracens is very clear that the incident was unprovoked. Which somehow makes it harder to believe.

I'm sure there was some pigtail, (or cornrole/dreadlock) pulling involved prior to the incident. Chris Ashton does have a well documented reputation for trying to antagonise and annoy others.

You are so full of crap. How can you just make stuff like that up about an incident?

I reckon Ashton was psychically attacking the poor fellow. The only way he break eye contact was to slap him. He totally forgot that he had a glass. Ashton then used his mind powers to make every forget and then flew off in his spaceship.

I suspect the attacker was a stylist and was trying to give Ashton a new hair cut but only had a broken glass bottle at hand in stead of his ever present scissors.

...Makes about as much sense as maest's idea.

I dont dislike Ashton, but certain players/peoples demeanor tend to wind people up, Ashton seems to be like that.

If your in a bar arguing both sides generally think theyre right, but both sides will be arguing.

I'm not playing the blame game as I have no other facts than Ashton was glassed after an altercation, he may have argued with someone or been picked out for being famour and have a swagger, either way judgement has to be reserved until an official statement is released.

Ps I have a mate who was glassed for being 6'10 and about 120kg's little runt thought he'd teach him a lesson by putting a broken glass bottle in his face 'you might be a big C*** but I can still put you under'
Funny thing is when the medics turned up they had to treat 3 people before looking at my mate and taking him for 20 or so stitck 8mm from his eye!

thebluesmancometh wrote:I dont dislike Ashton, but certain players/peoples demeanor tend to wind people up, Ashton seems to be like that.

If your in a bar arguing both sides generally think theyre right, but both sides will be arguing.

I'm not playing the blame game as I have no other facts than Ashton was glassed after an altercation, he may have argued with someone or been picked out for being famour and have a swagger, either way judgement has to be reserved until an official statement is released.

Ps I have a mate who was glassed for being 6'10 and about 120kg's little runt thought he'd teach him a lesson by putting a broken glass bottle in his face 'you might be a big C*** but I can still put you under'
Funny thing is when the medics turned up they had to treat 3 people before looking at my mate and taking him for 20 or so stitck 8mm from his eye!

Do we know there was an altercation at all?

These bloody glassers are lucky they didn't end up with a fist full of shards

maestegmafia wrote:

ChequeredJersey wrote:In what twisted universe does the absence of something proving Ashton is culpable prove that Ashton was culpable? That's literally what you've just said!

Literally almost what I wrote. But it isn't what I wrote though is it.

Why the antagonised and twisted supposition....?

I don't believe I've made a supposition all thread. Ive specifically been trying not to

Ha I was readin Niwatts comments where it said there was a breif altercation, mustve assumed it was from a report.

Wonder who the other players at the bar were though

yappysnap wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:I am not one to have been in too many bar fights, though I have seen a few, might even have been involved as well, a long long time ago.

But the nature of all fighting is usually because something provoked another enough to react in the most Neanderthal of ways.

The story from Saracens is very clear that the incident was unprovoked. Which somehow makes it harder to believe.

I'm sure there was some pigtail, (or cornrole/dreadlock) pulling involved prior to the incident. Chris Ashton does have a well documented reputation for trying to antagonise and annoy others.

You are so full of crap. How can you just make stuff like that up about an incident?

Saracens said in a statement that someone not known to the players approached the group and a brief altercation followed, which prompted a friend of the stranger to attack Ashton with a glass.

maestegmafia wrote:Saracens said in a statement that someone not known to the players approached the group and a brief altercation followed, which prompted a friend of the stranger to attack Ashton with a glass.

Nothing about that part of their statement suggests Ashton was at fault. Saracens are satisfied he wasn't, and it now appears the RFU and Lancaster are happy with what they have heard.

maestegmafia wrote:I am not one to have been in too many bar fights, though I have seen a few, might even have been involved as well, a long long time ago.

But the nature of all fighting is usually because something provoked another enough to react in the most Neanderthal of ways.

The story from Saracens is very clear that the incident was unprovoked. Which somehow makes it harder to believe.

I'm sure there was some pigtail, (or cornrole/dreadlock) pulling involved prior to the incident. Chris Ashton does have a well documented reputation for trying to antagonise and annoy others.

Maes, is there a time when you won't be posting something that's against the English or puts them in a bad light, it's getting a bit boring now.

I'm sure there will be a Welsh story to put a positive spin on soon.

I must admit I didn't expect some of the accusatory, and presumptive, comments when I made it clear that Ashton was wholly innocent in the initial post.

The main point was that one idiot could possibly set back a player's aspirations, even though the player concerned did nothing wrong.

You've been around here a while Hound. You should have known better

Hound_of_Harrow wrote:I must admit I didn't expect some of the accusatory, and presumptive, comments when I made it clear that Ashton was wholly innocent in the initial post.

The main point was that one idiot could possibly set back a player's aspirations, even though the player concerned did nothing wrong.

That is an incredibly valid and very interesting topic, and how many times have incidents like this been the downfall of a players reputation.

HammerofThunor wrote:You've been around here a while Hound. You should have known better

The lack of objectivity you have displayed today on a number of threads is outstanding.

From the man who said

The story from Saracens is very clear that the incident was unprovoked. Which somehow makes it harder to believe.

It [glassing] might even be considered a last resort means of self defence.

Theres is perfect reason to believe that there may have been some significant culpability on Ashtons part, it is highlighted by its absence

I obviously don't have a clue what objectivity is.

Maybe it was just a disgruntled Saints fan..?

Why bother speculate without any sort of evidence to go on? Could have been a football fan who hates rugby players. Could have been a Londoner who doesn't like Northerners. Could have been anyone. So there is little point speculating. Unless you like spreading rumours ('you' being 'one').

Maestegmafia

Do you genuinely think that Ashton wanted a glass in the face?

Wouldn't surprise me if Maestegmafia was involved in the incident!

Chris Ashton is an easy target. He's one of England's most high profile rugby players. He can't and didn't fight back because of this.

Maybe Ashton did trade insults with someone (pure speculation) but does it mean he should be glassed in the face? No of course not.

Maesteg, if you don't think that someone can be attacked or glasssed without doing something to provoke it, I'd like to cordially invite you to have a wander down the high street of any town about 15 minutes after closing time, if it doesn't happen to you, there's a fair chance you'll see it happen to someone else.

maestegmafia wrote:
Even considering the most violent and alcohol impared nature of some people found in London bars the act of "Glassing" someone seems considered rather than an immediate reaction.

As opposed to the completely sober people found in bars in Wales!

Poor guy. No smoke without fire though.

'Seem to be taking your life into your own hands, going out of a weekend in England...

Maesteg

2 observations. I was assaulted once by a pub landlord. My crime being my wife and I were out with a gay couple. He got convincted and lost his licence - good riddance

To follow on from Irish Londoners observation I suggest Swansea - there is the street with loads of bars in where it would not take long for some drunken oaf to try it on if you didn't speak in a Welsh accent.

Morons and Bigots are alive and well everywhere

Read this on the way to my early-morning flight this morning and began to wonder if I was still in some feverish dream.

Maes, I felt your comments were a bit ungenerous, but more importantly they didn't take account of the context. Saracens statement was issued after the news broke and rumours were starting. The whole point of the statement was to try to stop the rumours and make it clear that Saracens felt Ashton was blameless.

Under those circumstances, anything less than complete support would have the opposite effect of what they were trying to do. If Sarries had any concerns about Ashton's conduct, they could (and almost certainly would) have issued a statement to the effect that they were investigating the incident. That they didn't, and that they issued the statement they did so quickly, can only suggest that they have no concerns. Media attitudes towards English rugby are such that any misconduct by Ashton couldn't be covered up and Sarries would look pretty daft having supported him so unequivocally.

That's supported by the overnight news that Lancaster is not taking any sanctions against Ashton. He has shown in the past that he won't hesitate to drop players for indiscretions. That he, too, has come out in support of Ashton ought to be enough to settle any concerns.

As to whether violence can come without provocation, absolutely it can. I was threatened in a tube station once by a bunch of drunken Celtic fans for wearing the wrong colour scarf ("Hey, you, is that a Glasgae Rangers scarf? It is, and you're a Glasgae Rangers fan..."), and violence was only averted when the fan in question had me backed up against the ticket machine and took a good long look at both the me and the scarf ("No, it's not a Glasgae Rangers scarf... and my, look how big and tall you are!"). Had he decided the odds were more in his favour, I've no doubt I'd have been on the end of a beating.