Boxers we love to hate (not me though)

It seems the leader of the pack is Chavez followed by Khan and possibly Pac. All coincidentally Roach fighters (well khan was). Why do these guys get the backs up of many people here? Chavez seems like the George Bush of boxing. Born with a sliver glove in his mouth and helped all the was by his Godfather. But the kid still had to fight and earn his stripes.

Stop the hate.

Who did he fight to become champ Azania?? Had to fight bums and earn his drug money. They popped him the WBC belt as a given for being a Chavez. Joke and he should be banned from the ring for 12 months, loss of 75% of fight purse and dropped by promotional company.

Mine:

1. Chavez
2. Brandon Rios
3. Chavez

Froch
Carl Froch
Carl 'the cobra' Froch.

I've been hating on Chavez for about 5 years now - ever since he fought at Junior Welterweight. He would fight journeymen lightweights whilst coming in at about 158 on fight night...

He hasn't earned any stripes in my eyes. He never stepped foot in the ring with any decent fighters until the last year but was already given a WBC belt.

Other reasons to hate him?

Boxing is one of the hardest sports in the world, not just due to the fights, but due to the difficulty of getting to that level. Without his name, JCC Jr would never have been on major undercards to give him that exposure. He has had countless opportunities that guys I know would have died for (working with one of the best trainers in the world, having televised fights at a young age, being given the best support and trainers a kid his age could have)... and he doesn't show up to train?

Chavez is a "do nothing for something" kinda guy we see in this country every day... you know, those people who can't really be bothered to get out of bed to work and complain when things don't go their way. He is the embodiment of lax and his approach on the sport is laughable. I think that's enough reason dislike someone if you're a big enough fan.

Can you imaging the grief a football player would get for not showing up to training sessions and being found with dope in their system before an international game?

Other boxers might have unlikable attitudes, say things that are racist or slap their wives about, they probably don't have any fans either. Horses for courses... but given Chavez's recent track record - it's a good job he is in boxing because if he was in any other walk of life he would be sitting at home claiming some form of benefits or sat in a jail cell.

mobilemaster8 wrote:Who did he fight to become champ Azania?? Had to fight bums and earn his drug money. They popped him the WBC belt as a given for being a Chavez. Joke and he should be banned from the ring for 12 months, loss of 75% of fight purse and dropped by promotional company.

Mine:

1. Chavez
2. Brandon Rios
3. Chavez

Someone better and more legit than Canelo fought to win his belt, but he is liked on here even though he has been more protected than Chavez. Junior suffers because of his name more than anything else.

School Project wrote:I've been hating on Chavez for about 5 years now - ever since he fought at Junior Welterweight. He would fight journeymen lightweights whilst coming in at about 158 on fight night...

He hasn't earned any stripes in my eyes. He never stepped foot in the ring with any decent fighters until the last year but was already given a WBC belt.

Other reasons to hate him?

Boxing is one of the hardest sports in the world, not just due to the fights, but due to the difficulty of getting to that level. Without his name, JCC Jr would never have been on major undercards to give him that exposure. He has had countless opportunities that guys I know would have died for (working with one of the best trainers in the world, having televised fights at a young age, being given the best support and trainers a kid his age could have)... and he doesn't show up to train?

Chavez is a "do nothing for something" kinda guy we see in this country every day... you know, those people who can't really be bothered to get out of bed to work and complain when things don't go their way. He is the embodiment of lax and his approach on the sport is laughable. I think that's enough reason dislike someone if you're a big enough fan.

Can you imaging the grief a football player would get for not showing up to training sessions and being found with dope in their system before an international game?

Other boxers might have unlikable attitudes, say things that are racist or slap their wives about, they probably don't have any fans either. Horses for courses... but given Chavez's recent track record - it's a good job he is in boxing because if he was in any other walk of life he would be sitting at home claiming some form of benefits or sat in a jail cell.

He has had over 50 fights and yes he is a novelty due to his name. They tried that with Hearns Jnr and now Eubank is getting the same treatment. Why isolate Chavez for hate?

If his approach is lax then even more credit to him for beating the calibre of opponents (fringe world class) without training. What could he achieve if he did train?

I have to agree there Azania...

Canelo is just as protected (until we see him in the ring with a guy who hasn't got crust forming or a guy who fights 3 or 4 weight classes below him) then I'll have a suspicion about him.

I'd probably say the same thing about any WBC belt holder from Mexico at the moment though. The difference is, Canelo takes things a little more seriously.

There's no doubt that light is always shining on Son's of boxers...

But the majority of them are failures because they have been spoonfed opposition. Hearns is useless, Spinks did alright I guess and Chavez will be thrown into the same pit of throwaway namesakes.

As for beating fringe level fighters? Good for him for coming in on fight night 25 pounds above the middleweight limit, leaving venues before drug tests.

I don't "love to hate" Chavez. I just simply don't like the guy, no bandwagon jumping here... You can look at any post in the last year or so and see how critical I have been of him.

That extends to Suiliman also - who, let's be fair, stripped Martinez the second he could! The whole WBC/Chavez connection was as disgusting as it gets in the sport with "favourable" placements of names etc. I think I've posted enough reasons to justify my distain of the guy.

But I will say this, I don't "not like the guy" because it's the cool thing to do... I just never liked him to begin with. He has a big goofy head.

Canelo is much more talented than Chavez. Hes about 4 years younger also. He fought for a title that had been vacated. Chavez fought for one that had been stripped from Martinez. I think the hatred for Chavez on here is ott but the comparisons between him and Canelo pretty much end with them being Mexican in my eyes.

One of the premier differances between Alvarez and Chavez Jr, which may be being mistaken for "love/hate" is that Canelo is actually rated quite highly, something I dont think Chavez ever particularly was.

1-10 Chavez Jr... AKA Doobie Doo.

At least Canelo has fought opponents who have held a world title before!!

Chavez Jr before Martinez hadn't fought an ex title holder of any sort!!

But enough about them....

NATHAN CLEVERLY!!!

the guy has distanced himself from almost every boxing fan outside of his own town. Fighting a nurse and claiming it was his toughest fight ever after going tooth and bail against Bellew!

Frank Warren can try to milk him all he wants but the boat has sailed, the Calzaghe opponent comparison will always hang over his head.

He gets laughed at on most boxing forums. AND on top of that it is being mooted that he could be facing the great.........ROY JONES JR if he gets through urzerjsmKfka or whatever his name is.

Complete fraud!

My full 3 are:

1) cleverly
2) rios
3) Chavez Jr

Have to say, it did mildly amuse me to see Bernard Hopkins tweeting to Warren the other day: "Stop using my name to promote your BUM title holder."

School Project wrote:I have to agree there Azania...

Canelo is just as protected (until we see him in the ring with a guy who hasn't got crust forming or a guy who fights 3 or 4 weight classes below him) then I'll have a suspicion about him.

I'd probably say the same thing about any WBC belt holder from Mexico at the moment though. The difference is, Canelo takes things a little more seriously.

THUD!

School Project wrote:There's no doubt that light is always shining on Son's of boxers...

But the majority of them are failures because they have been spoonfed opposition. Hearns is useless, Spinks did alright I guess and Chavez will be thrown into the same pit of throwaway namesakes.

As for beating fringe level fighters? Good for him for coming in on fight night 25 pounds above the middleweight limit, leaving venues before drug tests.

I don't "love to hate" Chavez. I just simply don't like the guy, no bandwagon jumping here... You can look at any post in the last year or so and see how critical I have been of him.

That extends to Suiliman also - who, let's be fair, stripped Martinez the second he could! The whole WBC/Chavez connection was as disgusting as it gets in the sport with "favourable" placements of names etc. I think I've posted enough reasons to justify my distain of the guy.

But I will say this, I don't "not like the guy" because it's the cool thing to do... I just never liked him to begin with. He has a big goofy head.

So long as he weighs within the limit at weigh in time, I don't see the problem. Hatton made a career of being bigger than his opponents and being able to bully them as a result. Its nothing new.

I agree 100% he was gifted the belt and he didn't deserve it. But he is not the first and won't be the last either. None gets the abuse he gets though. Name value?

manos de piedra wrote:Canelo is much more talented than Chavez. Hes about 4 years younger also. He fought for a title that had been vacated. Chavez fought for one that had been stripped from Martinez. I think the hatred for Chavez on here is ott but the comparisons between him and Canelo pretty much end with them being Mexican in my eyes.

One of the premier differances between Alvarez and Chavez Jr, which may be being mistaken for "love/hate" is that Canelo is actually rated quite highly, something I dont think Chavez ever particularly was.

Come on manos. You're better than that. Dont try and legitimise the Hatton charade as a bonafide title shot. It was a coming out present for the ginger dude. He neither earned or deserved a title shot. Fast tracked there because he is, 1) Mexican, 2) Ginger, 3) talented. If DeGale fought for the SMW title against some blown up light mid and defended it against Clev type opponents, he would be laughed out of the UK.

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:At least Canelo has fought opponents who have held a world title before!!

Chavez Jr before Martinez hadn't fought an ex title holder of any sort!!

But enough about them....

NATHAN CLEVERLY!!!

the guy has distanced himself from almost every boxing fan outside of his own town. Fighting a nurse and claiming it was his toughest fight ever after going tooth and bail against Bellew!

Frank Warren can try to milk him all he wants but the boat has sailed, the Calzaghe opponent comparison will always hang over his head.

He gets laughed at on most boxing forums. AND on top of that it is being mooted that he could be facing the great.........ROY JONES JR if he gets through urzerjsmKfka or whatever his name is.

Complete fraud!

My full 3 are:

1) cleverly
2) rios
3) Chavez Jr

Good grief. Berbick fought the greatst ever HW fighter. Do you want to legitimise that also? Shane was a walking corpse and a half decade past it.

azania wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:Canelo is much more talented than Chavez. Hes about 4 years younger also. He fought for a title that had been vacated. Chavez fought for one that had been stripped from Martinez. I think the hatred for Chavez on here is ott but the comparisons between him and Canelo pretty much end with them being Mexican in my eyes.

One of the premier differances between Alvarez and Chavez Jr, which may be being mistaken for "love/hate" is that Canelo is actually rated quite highly, something I dont think Chavez ever particularly was.

Come on manos. You're better than that. Dont try and legitimise the Hatton charade as a bonafide title shot. It was a coming out present for the ginger dude. He neither earned or deserved a title shot. Fast tracked there because he is, 1) Mexican, 2) Ginger, 3) talented. If DeGale fought for the SMW title against some blown up light mid and defended it against Clev type opponents, he would be laughed out of the UK.

Im saying there is a distinct differance in being selected to fight for a vacant title that has been vacated and fighting for one when the best fighter in the division has been stripped.

For his age, I think Alvarez level of opposition and the talent he has displayed in beating them is quite good. I dont get hung up on the belts because the whole system is a joke and none of the titles deserve any respect in any case. I see Alvarez as a promising young fighter. I dont care if hes not better than Mayweather at this point in time. Alvarez might not be the best in his division but hes better than a good many of the belt holders out there.

I'm not defending Canelo Az, just saying how much worse Chavez Jr has been matched.

Chavez won the belt by robbing Zbik, Canelo won by humiliating Hatton.

Zbik and Hatton both euro level, Canelos win more impressive.

Chavez defences: Manfredo, Rubio and Lee the beat by Martinez. Looked ordinary against 2 opponents who have never achieved a thing in the pros between them and looked like a zombie against Martinez.

Canelo has looked amazing in all his defences and his opposition has been twice as good as Jr. But I agree he has been held back slightly after winning the belt but as far as I saw it Rhodes was his mandatory. Martinez was Jr's mandatory for almost 2 years and he fought nothing but trash.

It's obvious you hate the guy so it can never be debated with you. Is there anything else you want to talk about honey? Lovely weather we had today xx

So what if Canelo never earned a shot. Did Khan earn a shot at light welter against Kotelnik?? You claim boxing is all about money and that you understand this, yet use it as an argument to slate Canelo!

You are a terrible contributor to these boards sometimes Az

Ha, this is fantastic thread to support my hypocrisy thread....Mind if I link it az?

manos de piedra wrote:

azania wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:Canelo is much more talented than Chavez. Hes about 4 years younger also. He fought for a title that had been vacated. Chavez fought for one that had been stripped from Martinez. I think the hatred for Chavez on here is ott but the comparisons between him and Canelo pretty much end with them being Mexican in my eyes.

One of the premier differances between Alvarez and Chavez Jr, which may be being mistaken for "love/hate" is that Canelo is actually rated quite highly, something I dont think Chavez ever particularly was.

Come on manos. You're better than that. Dont try and legitimise the Hatton charade as a bonafide title shot. It was a coming out present for the ginger dude. He neither earned or deserved a title shot. Fast tracked there because he is, 1) Mexican, 2) Ginger, 3) talented. If DeGale fought for the SMW title against some blown up light mid and defended it against Clev type opponents, he would be laughed out of the UK.

Im saying there is a distinct differance in being selected to fight for a vacant title that has been vacated and fighting for one when the best fighter in the division has been stripped.

For his age, I think Alvarez level of opposition and the talent he has displayed in beating them is quite good. I dont get hung up on the belts because the whole system is a joke and none of the titles deserve any respect in any case. I see Alvarez as a promising young fighter. I dont care if hes not better than Mayweather at this point in time. Alvarez might not be the best in his division but hes better than a good many of the belt holders out there.

His age is irrelevant. The fact is, he is sold as a world champion. That is what you judge any world champ on. Not doubting that he is a talented and exciting prospect, but to me he is in the same bracket at Junior....World Chump.

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:I'm not defending Canelo Az, just saying how much worse Chavez Jr has been matched.

Chavez won the belt by robbing Zbik, Canelo won by humiliating Hatton.

Zbik and Hatton both euro level, Canelos win more impressive.

Chavez defences: Manfredo, Rubio and Lee the beat by Martinez. Looked ordinary against 2 opponents who have never achieved a thing in the pros between them and looked like a zombie against Martinez.

Canelo has looked amazing in all his defences and his opposition has been twice as good as Jr. But I agree he has been held back slightly after winning the belt but as far as I saw it Rhodes was his mandatory. Martinez was Jr's mandatory for almost 2 years and he fought nothing but trash.

It's obvious you hate the guy so it can never be debated with you. Is there anything else you want to talk about honey? Lovely weather we had today xx

Hatton is below Euro level. He's not even the 2nd best Light Mid in Britain, let alone the 2nd best WW. Canelo has loked better than Junior because he is a better fighter. I don't know why you are holding his loss to Martinez against him. Isn't Martinez a top 5 P4Per?

Held back slightly? That must be a joke. Rhodes....past it and not even euro level. Exposed by some eastern euro nobody. Mosely? Don't even bother defending that walking punchbag as being a genuine title contender or challenger.

Canelo reminds me of Clev in his matchmaking. Fighting past it guys and never were boxers. At least Junior took on the very best and got schooled.

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:So what if Canelo never earned a shot. Did Khan earn a shot at light welter against Kotelnik?? You claim boxing is all about money and that you understand this, yet use it as an argument to slate Canelo!

You are a terrible contributor to these boards sometimes Az

Khan never earned a shot, but when he got the belt he defended it against the division's best. Can the same be said of the ginger chump?

I think you're a bumhole muscle most of the time, but I wont hold it against you.

Yea his defence against Salita and Paulie were mega fights...

Salita was a manditory. Paulie is now a "world champ".

azania wrote:

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:I'm not defending Canelo Az, just saying how much worse Chavez Jr has been matched.

Chavez won the belt by robbing Zbik, Canelo won by humiliating Hatton.

Zbik and Hatton both euro level, Canelos win more impressive.

Chavez defences: Manfredo, Rubio and Lee the beat by Martinez. Looked ordinary against 2 opponents who have never achieved a thing in the pros between them and looked like a zombie against Martinez.

Canelo has looked amazing in all his defences and his opposition has been twice as good as Jr. But I agree he has been held back slightly after winning the belt but as far as I saw it Rhodes was his mandatory. Martinez was Jr's mandatory for almost 2 years and he fought nothing but trash.

It's obvious you hate the guy so it can never be debated with you. Is there anything else you want to talk about honey? Lovely weather we had today xx

Hatton is below Euro level. He's not even the 2nd best Light Mid in Britain, let alone the 2nd best WW. Canelo has loked better than Junior because he is a better fighter. I don't know why you are holding his loss to Martinez against him. Isn't Martinez a top 5 P4Per?

Held back slightly? That must be a joke. Rhodes....past it and not even euro level. Exposed by some eastern euro nobody. Mosely? Don't even bother defending that walking punchbag as being a genuine title contender or challenger.

Canelo reminds me of Clev in his matchmaking. Fighting past it guys and never were boxers. At least Junior took on the very best and got schooled.

See, pointless arguing with a small minded poster. Can't even be bothered wasting my time correcting you here. I'll leave you to your silly thread

Aww diddums. Naff off then ..... mate.xx

P.S, it was a decent thread until you made it silly with your blinding hatred

Ha. Narrow minded because I disagree with you? You are over-taking ghosty in the poossy stakes for throwing a strop when people disagree with you.

ANyway, take it easy!

88Chris05 wrote:Have to say, it did mildly amuse me to see Bernard Hopkins tweeting to Warren the other day: "Stop using my name to promote your BUM title holder."

Love this. 'Nard telling it like it is.

azania wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:

azania wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:Canelo is much more talented than Chavez. Hes about 4 years younger also. He fought for a title that had been vacated. Chavez fought for one that had been stripped from Martinez. I think the hatred for Chavez on here is ott but the comparisons between him and Canelo pretty much end with them being Mexican in my eyes.

One of the premier differances between Alvarez and Chavez Jr, which may be being mistaken for "love/hate" is that Canelo is actually rated quite highly, something I dont think Chavez ever particularly was.

Come on manos. You're better than that. Dont try and legitimise the Hatton charade as a bonafide title shot. It was a coming out present for the ginger dude. He neither earned or deserved a title shot. Fast tracked there because he is, 1) Mexican, 2) Ginger, 3) talented. If DeGale fought for the SMW title against some blown up light mid and defended it against Clev type opponents, he would be laughed out of the UK.

Im saying there is a distinct differance in being selected to fight for a vacant title that has been vacated and fighting for one when the best fighter in the division has been stripped.

For his age, I think Alvarez level of opposition and the talent he has displayed in beating them is quite good. I dont get hung up on the belts because the whole system is a joke and none of the titles deserve any respect in any case. I see Alvarez as a promising young fighter. I dont care if hes not better than Mayweather at this point in time. Alvarez might not be the best in his division but hes better than a good many of the belt holders out there.

His age is irrelevant. The fact is, he is sold as a world champion. That is what you judge any world champ on. Not doubting that he is a talented and exciting prospect, but to me he is in the same bracket at Junior....World Chump.

His age isnt irrelevant. Why should it be? For a 21 year old his opposition and performances have been very impressive. This is an issue in itself and one of the reasons he is rated. If you are so hung up on Alvarez I dont get why you dont make the same fuss over every other undeserving beltholder out there. There are actually only about 5 guys that can call themselves the best in their division without much of a dispute.

In a day and age when American nurses and Eastern European road sweepers can fight for world titles I think Alvarez is more than qualified to fight for a vacant title. Lets not pretend hes somehow unique. You can draw similarities with him to Chavez but there are stark differances also. I find it really bizzare than these ridiculous, corrupt and self serving sanctioning bodies (along with inept commissions and tv networks) have created this joke of a system yet its the fighters confined to it that seem to get blamed individually. He might be sold as a world champion, but the reality is it means sod all nowadays. This is surely the greater issue. Before long there will be more titles than fighters available to hold them. So whats the point in even giving meaningful recognition to such a rubbish system or and the inept creaters of it? At least Alvarez has talent and potential, which for me is whats interesting about him.

Yes qualified to fight for a world title. Just wished his opponent was qualified for the same fight.

I am well aware of the marketing aspect of boxing and pulling power sells fights in which some boxers have star power and others not. Those with star power get fast tracked and preferential treatment. But fighting Hatton at catchweight and selling it as a world title fight is pushing credibility too far. I mean Hatton who is barely top 10 in europe gets a title shot in a weight above his.

I dont disagree with that point, but it seems you place all the emphasis on this particular aspect when I think the issue is far broader. What I also find strange is that you consistently defend Chavez but rarely miss an opportunity to have a go at Avarez, only to try and tie them together constantly on this point that they both were undeserving champions. Why does it bother you so much that Alvarez is? He is an exciting, talented young prospect who happens to hold a portion of a world title. Blame the WBC more than Alvarez I say. The belts are much closer to marketing tools and gimmicks now as opposed to a credble system, as you touched on. So they may aswell be treated as such.

Probably because of the abuse cleverly gets Az loves the underdog on our forum

Salita (woeful), Paulie (rubbish), Maidana (Khan's best fight), McCloskey (an elite fighter!!! NOT), Judah (on par with Mosley) & Peterson (average, humiliated by Bradley)

So Khan fought the cream of the boxing world after winning his world title

"Salita was a manditory. Paulie is now a "world champ". Its amazing how Paulie has now become this amazing fighter after winning a belt at Welter. After Khan (and Hatton) beat him, he was slated!! And Salita, was ranked 8th by the WBA at the time, he was more of a "Nathan Cleverly" mandatory.

Hatton, Rhodes, Gomez, Cintron, Mosley & Lopez (Alvarez)

Sorry Az, but Khan's opponents after he won his belt are hardly leagues above Canelos.

manos de piedra wrote:I dont disagree with that point, but it seems you place all the emphasis on this particular aspect when I think the issue is far broader. What I also find strange is that you consistently defend Chavez but rarely miss an opportunity to have a go at Avarez, only to try and tie them together constantly on this point that they both were undeserving champions. Why does it bother you so much that Alvarez is? He is an exciting, talented young prospect who happens to hold a portion of a world title. Blame the WBC more than Alvarez I say. The belts are much closer to marketing tools and gimmicks now as opposed to a credble system, as you touched on. So they may aswell be treated as such.

I haven't defended Chavez. I've conpared him to Saul and the reaction on here on the two being so called world champs. One gets praised for being gifted a belt whilst the other gets roundly criticised for the same thing. OK Chavez was given the belt. But then so was Lewis, Norton and it isn't really held against them in the same manner Chavez's present is held against him.

I have described Saul as exciting and good to watch. But in no way is he a world champ in that he has not earned it. I have nothing against him other than believe he is over-rated. Defended it against hopelessly over-matched opponents (his last defence was not his fault but still over-matched).

Dont get me wrong, Saul is good for boxing. He draws people in. So is Chavez. But face facts here, both are products of a bastardised system and politics.

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:Salita (woeful), Paulie (rubbish), Maidana (Khan's best fight), McCloskey (an elite fighter!!! NOT), Judah (on par with Mosley) & Peterson (average, humiliated by Bradley)

So Khan fought the cream of the boxing world after winning his world title

"Salita was a manditory. Paulie is now a "world champ". Its amazing how Paulie has now become this amazing fighter after winning a belt at Welter. After Khan (and Hatton) beat him, he was slated!! And Salita, was ranked 8th by the WBA at the time, he was more of a "Nathan Cleverly" mandatory.

Hatton, Rhodes, Gomez, Cintron, Mosley & Lopez (Alvarez)

Sorry Az, but Khan's opponents after he won his belt are hardly leagues above Canelos.

If you say so.

Canelo is rated higher than Chavez because of the performances not because of the names although if Chavez has a better resume its only by a fraction. Even before Martinez, Chavez wasn't deserving of an unbeaten record after robberies to Molina and Zbik. The only time he looked impressive was vs lee and he was getting outboxed before lee started to trade which he wasn't good enough or tough enough to do

The WBC stripped Martinez and handed it to chavez on a platter. He actively avoided Martinez for 2 years. Canelo, for all your rabbiting on about not fighting Lara, has never actively ducked anyone or not fought his mandtory's and he doesn't have the bargaining power when it comes to floyd or cotto fights

Added to the fact he misses drug tests, tested positive for diuretics, smokes weed before the biggest fight of his life, is lazy, doesn't want to train, disrespects his trainer with his attitude and finally giving a horrible showing fr 11 rounds

Yes!!! Victory!!!

Cheers Az, now at least try to contain the hate.

WHU, you are wasting your time with this kid.

He has a certain agenda, one which I won't get into. You should just say clear of the subject. The real sensible posters on here agree with everything you just said.

Notice that only Az and Davidemore are the only ones who spout this nonsense like too disadvantaged kids.

WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote:Canelo is rated higher than Chavez because of the performances not because of the names although if Chavez has a better resume its only by a fraction. Even before Martinez, Chavez wasn't deserving of an unbeaten record after robberies to Molina and Zbik. The only time he looked impressive was vs lee and he was getting outboxed before lee started to trade which he wasn't good enough or tough enough to do

The WBC stripped Martinez and handed it to chavez on a platter. He actively avoided Martinez for 2 years. Canelo, for all your rabbiting on about not fighting Lara, has never actively ducked anyone or not fought his mandtory's and he doesn't have the bargaining power when it comes to floyd or cotto fights

Added to the fact he misses drug tests, tested positive for diuretics, smokes weed before the biggest fight of his life, is lazy, doesn't want to train, disrespects his trainer with his attitude and finally giving a horrible showing fr 11 rounds

Canelo is rated more highly for many reasons. One of which is that he appears the better boxer. Certainly the more rounded looking boxer. Yes Chavez is spoilt. But that is neither here nor there. He stepped up. Canelo fought Mosely....old enough to be his dad. Canelo is protected. Chavez was exposed. As soon as Canelo fights the top guys in the division, he will get exposed also. I'm sure they're waiting for Cotto to have another tough fight and show signes of slipping before the match is made.

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:WHU, you are wasting your time with this kid.

He has a certain agenda, one which I won't get into. You should just say clear of the subject. The real sensible posters on here agree with everything you just said.

Notice that only Az and Davidemore are the only ones who spout this nonsense like too disadvantaged kids.

Shoo.

azania wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:I dont disagree with that point, but it seems you place all the emphasis on this particular aspect when I think the issue is far broader. What I also find strange is that you consistently defend Chavez but rarely miss an opportunity to have a go at Avarez, only to try and tie them together constantly on this point that they both were undeserving champions. Why does it bother you so much that Alvarez is? He is an exciting, talented young prospect who happens to hold a portion of a world title. Blame the WBC more than Alvarez I say. The belts are much closer to marketing tools and gimmicks now as opposed to a credble system, as you touched on. So they may aswell be treated as such.

I haven't defended Chavez. I've conpared him to Saul and the reaction on here on the two being so called world champs. One gets praised for being gifted a belt whilst the other gets roundly criticised for the same thing. OK Chavez was given the belt. But then so was Lewis, Norton and it isn't really held against them in the same manner Chavez's present is held against him.

I have described Saul as exciting and good to watch. But in no way is he a world champ in that he has not earned it. I have nothing against him other than believe he is over-rated. Defended it against hopelessly over-matched opponents (his last defence was not his fault but still over-matched).

Dont get me wrong, Saul is good for boxing. He draws people in. So is Chavez. But face facts here, both are products of a bastardised system and politics.

They are comparable in that way yes, but the reason for the contrast in opinion on them is based round alot of other things in which they are different. Chavez has never come across as having anything like the talent or potential Alvarez has. Hes about 4 years later in his career and is workmanlike that few see having the potential to be a really top fighter. He has also has a stigma of laziness, drug issues, lucky decisions and a rivalry with a popular fighter (Martinez) who was stripped to accomodate him. All of these things mark him differently to Alvarez.

Canelo is young, talented, exciting and has alot of potential. He could go on to be a top fighter. He doesnt have any of the stigma that Chavez is followed by and given how young he is I think most people are willing to accept for the age and stage in his career he is at, his opposition so far has been good and a fight with someone like Mayweather would be too soon. Cotto in the next 12 months would be great. Williams, Kirkland or even Ortiz would have good matches but unfortunately fell through.

I seldom see anyone on here that disagrees with your point that Alvarez got his title easy and is not the best in his weight class. But there are a whole host of other reasons to consider as to why he is different to Chavez and why people rate him more highly.

manos de piedra wrote:

azania wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:I dont disagree with that point, but it seems you place all the emphasis on this particular aspect when I think the issue is far broader. What I also find strange is that you consistently defend Chavez but rarely miss an opportunity to have a go at Avarez, only to try and tie them together constantly on this point that they both were undeserving champions. Why does it bother you so much that Alvarez is? He is an exciting, talented young prospect who happens to hold a portion of a world title. Blame the WBC more than Alvarez I say. The belts are much closer to marketing tools and gimmicks now as opposed to a credble system, as you touched on. So they may aswell be treated as such.

I haven't defended Chavez. I've conpared him to Saul and the reaction on here on the two being so called world champs. One gets praised for being gifted a belt whilst the other gets roundly criticised for the same thing. OK Chavez was given the belt. But then so was Lewis, Norton and it isn't really held against them in the same manner Chavez's present is held against him.

I have described Saul as exciting and good to watch. But in no way is he a world champ in that he has not earned it. I have nothing against him other than believe he is over-rated. Defended it against hopelessly over-matched opponents (his last defence was not his fault but still over-matched).

Dont get me wrong, Saul is good for boxing. He draws people in. So is Chavez. But face facts here, both are products of a bastardised system and politics.

They are comparable in that way yes, but the reason for the contrast in opinion on them is based round alot of other things in which they are different. Chavez has never come across as having anything like the talent or potential Alvarez has. Hes about 4 years later in his career and is workmanlike that few see having the potential to be a really top fighter. He has also has a stigma of laziness, drug issues, lucky decisions and a rivalry with a popular fighter (Martinez) who was stripped to accomodate him. All of these things mark him differently to Alvarez.

Canelo is young, talented, exciting and has alot of potential. He could go on to be a top fighter. He doesnt have any of the stigma that Chavez is followed by and given how young he is I think most people are willing to accept for the age and stage in his career he is at, his opposition so far has been good and a fight with someone like Mayweather would be too soon. Cotto in the next 12 months would be great. Williams, Kirkland or even Ortiz would have good matches but unfortunately fell through.

I seldom see anyone on here that disagrees with your point that Alvarez got his title easy and is not the best in his weight class. But there are a whole host of other reasons to consider as to why he is different to Chavez and why people rate him more highly.

Canelo beating Cotto 12 months down the line is what I suspect. Waiting for Cotto to get old and then claim Canelo is the second coming. If he had black hair, he wouldn't get the plaudits.

For sure he has more talent then Chavez. But he has bene protected more than him. The fact that GBP are keeping any dangerous challengers away from him speaks volumes.

Kirkland and Ortiz would have been good fights. No fault of his that they went. I'd pick both to beat him as soon as a jab is landed. I like how GBP have given Lara a wide berth though.

Az thinks that Canelo doesn't deserve the title and has fought nobody of note, yet screams about Lara fighting for a title when the best win on his record is...........wait for it...........RONALD HEARNS!!!!!!!!

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:Az thinks that Canelo doesn't deserve the title and has fought nobody of note, yet screams about Lara fighting for a title when the best win on his record is...........wait for it...........RONALD HEARNS!!!!!!!!

Shoo

Ronald "the Titman" Hearns haha

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:Ronald "the Titman" Hearns haha

Shoo

Alright Reborn, you've got your point across - you don't likt Az nor his views. So now that we've established that, can you pack it in with the arguing back and forth?

Sorry to get my mod hat on, but things have a tendancy to spiral out of control and this is getting dangerously close to doing so. Both of you know what the eventuality will be if it doesn't stop, or at least get toned down.

I dont think Cotto in the next 12 month is bad by any stretch. There is a middle ground. Alvarez is only just turned 22. I dont think he should be realistically expected to face Cotto any sooner. Dot agree regards Kirkland and especially Ortiz beating him but thats another days work.