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Worst player ever to have won a major? In the modern era. That I've heard of. That isn't Paul Lawrie. And isn't dead. And never wore red shoes.

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Who's brought most shame to the title 'Major Champion'?

Worst player ever to have won a major? In the modern era. That I've heard of. That isn't Paul Lawrie. And isn't dead. And never wore red shoes. - Page 2 Vote_lcap12%Worst player ever to have won a major? In the modern era. That I've heard of. That isn't Paul Lawrie. And isn't dead. And never wore red shoes. - Page 2 Vote_rcap 12% 
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Worst player ever to have won a major? In the modern era. That I've heard of. That isn't Paul Lawrie. And isn't dead. And never wore red shoes. - Page 2 Vote_lcap4%Worst player ever to have won a major? In the modern era. That I've heard of. That isn't Paul Lawrie. And isn't dead. And never wore red shoes. - Page 2 Vote_rcap 4% 
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Worst player ever to have won a major? In the modern era. That I've heard of. That isn't Paul Lawrie. And isn't dead. And never wore red shoes. - Page 2 Vote_lcap4%Worst player ever to have won a major? In the modern era. That I've heard of. That isn't Paul Lawrie. And isn't dead. And never wore red shoes. - Page 2 Vote_rcap 4% 
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Worst player ever to have won a major? In the modern era. That I've heard of. That isn't Paul Lawrie. And isn't dead. And never wore red shoes. - Page 2 Vote_lcap49%Worst player ever to have won a major? In the modern era. That I've heard of. That isn't Paul Lawrie. And isn't dead. And never wore red shoes. - Page 2 Vote_rcap 49% 
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Worst player ever to have won a major? In the modern era. That I've heard of. That isn't Paul Lawrie. And isn't dead. And never wore red shoes. - Page 2 Empty Worst player ever to have won a major? In the modern era. That I've heard of. That isn't Paul Lawrie. And isn't dead. And never wore red shoes.

Post by SmithersJones Fri 28 Sep 2012, 10:28 am

First topic message reminder :

Thinking about Westwood and Lawrie, up until the latter's recent revival one could have argued that they were polar opposites, with Lawrie being a candidate for the title of this thread. How about some others?


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Worst player ever to have won a major? In the modern era. That I've heard of. That isn't Paul Lawrie. And isn't dead. And never wore red shoes. - Page 2 Empty Re: Worst player ever to have won a major? In the modern era. That I've heard of. That isn't Paul Lawrie. And isn't dead. And never wore red shoes.

Post by barragan Tue 02 Oct 2012, 11:25 am

Paul Lawrie off the list as requested Braveheart

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Worst player ever to have won a major? In the modern era. That I've heard of. That isn't Paul Lawrie. And isn't dead. And never wore red shoes. - Page 2 Empty Re: Worst player ever to have won a major? In the modern era. That I've heard of. That isn't Paul Lawrie. And isn't dead. And never wore red shoes.

Post by SmithersJones Tue 02 Oct 2012, 11:33 am

Thanks

I see no-one's gone for Grady. I'd have thought he'd be as (un)popular as Curtis if not more so.
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Worst player ever to have won a major? In the modern era. That I've heard of. That isn't Paul Lawrie. And isn't dead. And never wore red shoes. - Page 2 Empty Re: Worst player ever to have won a major? In the modern era. That I've heard of. That isn't Paul Lawrie. And isn't dead. And never wore red shoes.

Post by John Cregan Tue 02 Oct 2012, 11:44 am

Lawrie IMO more worthy of being on the list than Grady...............

Grady was a fine player................

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Worst player ever to have won a major? In the modern era. That I've heard of. That isn't Paul Lawrie. And isn't dead. And never wore red shoes. - Page 2 Empty Re: Worst player ever to have won a major? In the modern era. That I've heard of. That isn't Paul Lawrie. And isn't dead. And never wore red shoes.

Post by John Cregan Tue 02 Oct 2012, 11:46 am

Is Larry Mize worth a mention??

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Post by McLaren Tue 02 Oct 2012, 11:46 am

Unless someone stipulated a post 1980 time frame this discussion has been a total farce up to this point. You guys might want to think about pre 1950’s events where the fields were neither large nor very international. To think someone winning a modern major - with very high field strength - is the worst ever major winner shows a stunning lack of logic.


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Worst player ever to have won a major? In the modern era. That I've heard of. That isn't Paul Lawrie. And isn't dead. And never wore red shoes. - Page 2 Empty Re: Worst player ever to have won a major? In the modern era. That I've heard of. That isn't Paul Lawrie. And isn't dead. And never wore red shoes.

Post by Diggers Tue 02 Oct 2012, 11:50 am

Who cares about the 1950's Mac, none of us were about to see any of it. Common sense dictates we will discuss what he know.

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Worst player ever to have won a major? In the modern era. That I've heard of. That isn't Paul Lawrie. And isn't dead. And never wore red shoes. - Page 2 Empty Re: Worst player ever to have won a major? In the modern era. That I've heard of. That isn't Paul Lawrie. And isn't dead. And never wore red shoes.

Post by JAS Tue 02 Oct 2012, 12:05 pm

Diggers wrote:Who cares about the 1950's Mac, none of us were about to see any of it. Common sense dictates we will discuss what he know.

That's good logic Diggers Wink

Mac perhaps the thread would be better titled...Worst Major winner in the modern era.


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Post by kwinigolfer Tue 02 Oct 2012, 12:13 pm

Still think Orville Moody well worth a shout (before his Senior career, enhanced by a long putter if I remember rightly). Only one other Major top ten (7th in a PGA) and no PGA Tour wins.

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Worst player ever to have won a major? In the modern era. That I've heard of. That isn't Paul Lawrie. And isn't dead. And never wore red shoes. - Page 2 Empty Re: Worst player ever to have won a major? In the modern era. That I've heard of. That isn't Paul Lawrie. And isn't dead. And never wore red shoes.

Post by McLaren Tue 02 Oct 2012, 12:19 pm

Kwini

Although not in the time period I suggested Orville moody seems a very good candidate.

If we are talking form either side of a major win then I will put forward my old favourite; Darren Clarke.

Maybe we could put forward players from 20 year periods starting in 1900?
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Worst player ever to have won a major? In the modern era. That I've heard of. That isn't Paul Lawrie. And isn't dead. And never wore red shoes. - Page 2 Empty Re: Worst player ever to have won a major? In the modern era. That I've heard of. That isn't Paul Lawrie. And isn't dead. And never wore red shoes.

Post by GunsGerms Tue 02 Oct 2012, 12:30 pm

McLaren wrote:Kwini

Although not in the time period I suggested Orville moody seems a very good candidate.

If we are talking form either side of a major win then I will put forward my old favourite; Darren Clarke.

Maybe we could put forward players from 20 year periods starting in 1900?

Clarke may not have been on everyone's radar when he won the BO but he was pretty highly rated earlier in his career prior to that. He has won some big PGA tour events.

Maybe he is a bit of a Phoenix from the flames but he has had a decent career.

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Post by navyblueshorts Tue 02 Oct 2012, 12:34 pm

Diggers wrote:I wouldnt value Clarkes Open win over Bradleys PGA in a million years in terms of what was harder to win that week.
The weather gave Clarke a big advantage IMO, growing up in horrendous weather and playing links, in reality that should have played right into his hands and it did. He certainly hasnt looked like contending in any other big field event for some time before or since.
Bradley took on the best in the world on a level playing field and he won.
Eh? The weather was the same for everyone the week Clarke won. Pretty level field from my perspective. It's hardly his fault if a lot of the rest of the field don't know what to do when it's more than a 1-club wind is it??
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Post by incontinentia Tue 02 Oct 2012, 12:36 pm

Mungo Park, Open champion in the 1800's. I guess those guys would be the equivalent of a 5 handicapper today?
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Post by barragan Tue 02 Oct 2012, 12:37 pm

how about narrowing it down for each decade, then have a $10m play-off to decide the worst of all time.

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Post by pedro Tue 02 Oct 2012, 12:50 pm

Clarke was a top player prior to his BO win. A couple of WGC's, many ET wins + a RC great. Yes, windy conditions always seem to discard half of the American contingent, but don't hold it against Clarke. I remind that Tom Watson almost also won BO in similar conditions. And is he on someones "worst ever list..."? If you want to add a player to the list, you can add Cink then.

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Post by McLaren Tue 02 Oct 2012, 12:54 pm

For DC i meant the 12-18 months before, not his entire career. I am not a total idiot.
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Post by Diggers Tue 02 Oct 2012, 12:59 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
Diggers wrote:I wouldnt value Clarkes Open win over Bradleys PGA in a million years in terms of what was harder to win that week.
The weather gave Clarke a big advantage IMO, growing up in horrendous weather and playing links, in reality that should have played right into his hands and it did. He certainly hasnt looked like contending in any other big field event for some time before or since.
Bradley took on the best in the world on a level playing field and he won.
Eh? The weather was the same for everyone the week Clarke won. Pretty level field from my perspective. It's hardly his fault if a lot of the rest of the field don't know what to do when it's more than a 1-club wind is it??

Its not his fault, but its to his advantage that he has a lot of links experience and that week the course played like a true links course in hellish conditions which isnt often/always the case.
The other majors dont provide the same variations that the Open does, how many Americans play on links courses other than at the Open ? The three other majors are far more like the golf that is played week in and week out on the main tours.

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Post by pedro Tue 02 Oct 2012, 1:01 pm

Fair enough mac, maybe you can also add Ernie Els then.

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Post by McLaren Tue 02 Oct 2012, 1:03 pm

Not really pedro, els was well inside the top 50 when he won the open.
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Post by kwinigolfer Tue 02 Oct 2012, 1:21 pm

Fixing the rules to disqualify Sarge?

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Post by SmithersJones Tue 02 Oct 2012, 1:36 pm

No, sorry, that's lost on me Kwini. I just know I'm beginning to wish I'd never started this poll!
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Post by incontinentia Tue 02 Oct 2012, 1:37 pm

Never wore red shoes on the golf course, or never wore them period?
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Post by SmithersJones Tue 02 Oct 2012, 1:37 pm

incontinentia wrote:Never wore red shoes on the golf course, or never wore them period?

Red shoes. Period. Fnaar Fnaar.
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Post by kwinigolfer Tue 02 Oct 2012, 1:42 pm

SJ,
Moody's dead . . . . . don't think he wore red shoes though.

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Post by JAS Tue 02 Oct 2012, 1:50 pm

Just looked through all the major winners since 1980....who's Steve Jones??

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Post by Diggers Tue 02 Oct 2012, 2:02 pm

There is a name from the past Jas. Just checked his record on wiki and 8 PGA wins so no mug, including one win by 11 strokes which must be close to a PGA record ? Shocking record in the majors bar his win mind you.

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Post by kwinigolfer Tue 02 Oct 2012, 2:05 pm

Steve Jones was a terrific player whose career was beset by injury.
Won eight Tour events and would have won at least one more but for cranking his 72nd hole drive out of bounds on Harbour Town's 100-yard wide 18th fairway so allowing a young Davis Love to "earn" his first PGA Tour win.
Also won a Tournament of Champions, Pebble Beach, a couple of Canadian Opens, etc, etc.

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Post by JAS Tue 02 Oct 2012, 2:28 pm

I suppose it was before the days of blanket US Open TV coverage over here, but he was the only guy listed that I just couldn't picture.

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Post by GunsGerms Tue 02 Oct 2012, 2:49 pm

Westwood is hypothetically the worst major winner because if he ever wins a major oxymoronically he would be the worst because he doesn't have the mental fortitude to win such big events and it would probably only be realised by way of complete fluke.

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Post by McLaren Tue 02 Oct 2012, 2:53 pm

smithers

" just know I'm beginning to wish I'd never started this poll!"

Would you rather have started something which inspired no debate?
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Post by Diggers Tue 02 Oct 2012, 2:54 pm

GunsGerms wrote:Westwood is hypothetically the worst major winner because if he ever wins a major oxymoronically he would be the worst because he doesn't have the mental fortitude to win such big events and it would probably only be realised by way of complete fluke.

Im pretty sure there are a few flaws in this argument......

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Post by Sand Tue 02 Oct 2012, 2:59 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
Diggers wrote:I wouldnt value Clarkes Open win over Bradleys PGA in a million years in terms of what was harder to win that week.
The weather gave Clarke a big advantage IMO, growing up in horrendous weather and playing links, in reality that should have played right into his hands and it did. He certainly hasnt looked like contending in any other big field event for some time before or since.
Bradley took on the best in the world on a level playing field and he won.
Eh? The weather was the same for everyone the week Clarke won. Pretty level field from my perspective. It's hardly his fault if a lot of the rest of the field don't know what to do when it's more than a 1-club wind is it??

Totally disagree with that. That week the weather wasnt constant on Thursday and Friday and Clarke got the best half of the draw (with others in his half of course but that goes without saying). Then got a massive break on the Saturday where as the wind and the rain was horrendous and the majority of players played in it but totally died down by the time he tee'd off. Although will admit Ricky Fowler managed to post one of the best scores ive ever seen in that conditions, still feel the point stands.

He hasnt came close to winning since. Add in the fact he got some of the biggest breaks ive ever seen on the Sunday, skipping over bunkers and all sorts after thinning iron shots, means IMO he had his fair share of good fortune to win that event.

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Post by McLaren Tue 02 Oct 2012, 2:59 pm

The main one being the concept thay westwood will ever be in a position for anyone to even begin to contemplate him winning a major.
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Post by SmithersJones Tue 02 Oct 2012, 3:00 pm

McLaren wrote:smithers

" just know I'm beginning to wish I'd never started this poll!"

Would you rather have started something which inspired no debate?

Just kidding Mac, it's just a bit boring having to repeat and clarify so much.
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Post by GunsGerms Tue 02 Oct 2012, 3:27 pm

McLaren wrote:The main one being the concept thay westwood will ever be in a position for anyone to even begin to contemplate him winning a major.

Not the way he's playing now anyway.

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Post by navyblueshorts Tue 02 Oct 2012, 4:16 pm

GunsGerms wrote:Westwood is hypothetically the worst major winner because if he ever wins a major oxymoronically he would be the worst because he doesn't have the mental fortitude to win such big events and it would probably only be realised by way of complete fluke.
Rubbish. Not much thought gone into that remark it would seem.
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Post by navyblueshorts Tue 02 Oct 2012, 4:20 pm

Sand wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Diggers wrote:I wouldnt value Clarkes Open win over Bradleys PGA in a million years in terms of what was harder to win that week.
The weather gave Clarke a big advantage IMO, growing up in horrendous weather and playing links, in reality that should have played right into his hands and it did. He certainly hasnt looked like contending in any other big field event for some time before or since.
Bradley took on the best in the world on a level playing field and he won.
Eh? The weather was the same for everyone the week Clarke won. Pretty level field from my perspective. It's hardly his fault if a lot of the rest of the field don't know what to do when it's more than a 1-club wind is it??

Totally disagree with that. That week the weather wasnt constant on Thursday and Friday and Clarke got the best half of the draw (with others in his half of course but that goes without saying). Then got a massive break on the Saturday where as the wind and the rain was horrendous and the majority of players played in it but totally died down by the time he tee'd off. Although will admit Ricky Fowler managed to post one of the best scores ive ever seen in that conditions, still feel the point stands.

He hasnt came close to winning since. Add in the fact he got some of the biggest breaks ive ever seen on the Sunday, skipping over bunkers and all sorts after thinning iron shots, means IMO he had his fair share of good fortune to win that event.
May be something in the fact that Clarke didn't get the worst of the conditions but it was crap all four days for everyone. He played the best in the conditions and he won, end of story really.
Incidentally, so what if he hasn't looked like winning again?? Why do people make so much of this? Man at the end of his top-level career wins major he's always dreamed of winning and, not unnaturally, his mental drive is diminished by so-doing. Can't see the problem myself.
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Post by navyblueshorts Tue 02 Oct 2012, 4:22 pm

McLaren wrote:The main one being the concept thay westwood will ever be in a position for anyone to even begin to contemplate him winning a major.
You do talk Poopie Mac. He's been in exactly such a position on a number of recent occasions. FACT, as they say. He may never win one but I sincerely hope he does, if only so you have to swallow this sort of nonsense.
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Post by GunsGerms Tue 02 Oct 2012, 4:43 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:Westwood is hypothetically the worst major winner because if he ever wins a major oxymoronically he would be the worst because he doesn't have the mental fortitude to win such big events and it would probably only be realised by way of complete fluke.
Rubbish. Not much thought gone into that remark it would seem.

As opposed to your response which you mulled over for quite some time?

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Post by navyblueshorts Tue 02 Oct 2012, 5:02 pm

Not a problem for me Guns, I can live with it. My response to your comment didn't need much thought as it's self-apparent that yours is pretty poor.
This 'Westwood is a bottler/choker/doesn't have the mental fortitude (to put it your way)' doesn't deserve much discussion does it? It just displays your prejudices and shows up anyone who makes such remarks when they themselves never have and never will be in such a rarified atmosphere.
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Post by GunsGerms Tue 02 Oct 2012, 5:23 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:Not a problem for me Guns, I can live with it. My response to your comment didn't need much thought as it's self-apparent that yours is pretty poor.
This 'Westwood is a bottler/choker/doesn't have the mental fortitude (to put it your way)' doesn't deserve much discussion does it? It just displays your prejudices and shows up anyone who makes such remarks when they themselves never have and never will be in such a rarified atmosphere.

I think Westwoods mental fortitude or apparent lack of it is well worth discussing. Surely it's the main difference between journey men like Westwood and Monty and major winners.

What are my predjuces please expand on that?

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Post by GunsGerms Tue 02 Oct 2012, 5:35 pm

Re: Rarified atmosphere.

My guess is that most if not all posters on this site have never competed in a major golf tournament so that isnt a particularly well thought out comment.

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Post by George1507 Tue 02 Oct 2012, 7:08 pm

Lots of people are quoting names like Mungo Park and Alf Perry.

They're dead, and the question specifically says "And isn't dead".

Guys like Mungo Park and his ilk were incredibly skilful players, given the equipment of the time and the fact that courses were just sheep pastures. No lawn mowers in those days...

My vote - Darren Clarke. How the others contrived to let him win an Open Championship beggars belief.

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Post by SmithersJones Tue 02 Oct 2012, 7:39 pm

George. I've definitely seen DC in red shoes before, sorry.
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Post by George1507 Tue 02 Oct 2012, 7:48 pm

Darren Clarke? Red shoes? Well I suppose he is a clown...

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Post by incontinentia Tue 02 Oct 2012, 8:00 pm

can you add mungo park's name to the list please? thanks.

gunsgerms- by calling Westwood a journeyman you have killed your credibility on the golf board. not even his fiercest critic would say that.
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Post by GunsGerms Tue 02 Oct 2012, 8:09 pm

Clarke was for much of his career was tipped to win a major. Even though he eventually won one when he was no longer a top golfer it wasn't really a surprise that he managed to bag at least one over the course of his very respectable career. Certainly a better career than Lawrie, Hamilton and Ben Curtis.

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Post by GunsGerms Tue 02 Oct 2012, 8:11 pm

incontinentia wrote:can you add mungo park's name to the list please? thanks.

gunsgerms- by calling Westwood a journeyman you have killed your credibility on the golf board. not even his fiercest critic would say that.

The history books will remember him as a journey man. Not particularly bothered what you think. I've heard a lot worse said on the golf boards to be honest.

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Post by JAS Tue 02 Oct 2012, 9:09 pm

GunsGerms wrote:Westwood is hypothetically the worst major winner because if he ever wins a major oxymoronically he would be the worst because he doesn't have the mental fortitude to win such big events and it would probably only be realised by way of complete fluke.

What???? If that's not just a complete piece of WUMmery then the logic of it's gone right over my head

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Post by GunsGerms Tue 02 Oct 2012, 9:23 pm

It was meant to be tongue in cheek. It was an oxymoron and therefore admittedly illogical however Westwood is a journeyman because although he has bags of talent and is reliable and consistent he is unable to excel and hit the same heights and some of the golfers mentioned on this thread.

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Post by JAS Tue 02 Oct 2012, 9:38 pm

What's with the Clarke bashing on this thread too. Fair to say his form since he won the Open has been rank rotten but it doesn't make him anywhere near being considered a candidate for "Worst player ever to win a Major"
4 top 10s in Majors (spread over a long period and over 3 different Majors)
2 WGCs
22 Professional wins
5 Ryder Cup appearances with a positive (58%) win record

Quite frankly I think you'd be hard pushed to find another single Major winner with a better record. Besides all of that he came back to be a Major winner after having to battle through some incredible off course lows. With regard to his win at RSG, all the contenders had much the same to deal with on Sunday, he may have carried some luck but over a 20 year career you'd expect the dice to roll in your favour once in a while. The fact is he was able to adapt to the conditions better than anyone else.

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