Kenyan Athletes Implicated in Widespread Doping

See the links below.



http://in.news.yahoo.com/kenyan-athletes-face-inquiry-sting-operation-reveals-widespread-102828594.html


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19763647


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/athletics/9572277/Kenyans-athletes-under-scrutiny-in-doping-inquiry.html


If these allegations are true , I must say that this is really a really Sad Sad day for the sport. A sport that has being battered by doping allegations.

Or could this be a case of mediocre Kenyan Athletes desperate for success to rival their more illustrious colleagues so they resort to subterfuge/cheating - and when caught alleges that everyone is doing it?


Anyone knows what the Kenyan Atheletics Testing Regime is like? Do they have one ? How effective is it? Do they Do OOC testing? How easy is it to find atheltes training is rural Kenya? (Not very easy I would say (especially around the rift valley Eldoret and Nakuru region) - I lived and work there some years back)


Do they even have the resources to run an effective anti-doping programme? And how much help is given by the IAAF and WADA , in the running of the anti-doping programme if they have one?

Finally it beggars belief that they would resort to cheating. After all they have the climate and the genetic adavantage to dominate the long distance event without the need for cheating.


If true - Sad Day for the sport.


PS: Before anyone start to talk about the Jamaican Anit-Doping System. Yes there is one in place. Set-up with the assistance of the IAAF and WADA. Accredited by WADA (just like every other nations that has an anti-doping system) and they do do OOC testing. Check WADA website for details). And the athletes can be found (Jamaica very small 4411 SQ miles) for testing by WADA/IAAF. Most of them trained in Italy MVP and at UWI at the IAAF high performance centre.


Please keep on topic.

The below Daily Telegraph article makes interesting reading.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/athletics/9572277/Kenyans-athletes-under-scrutiny-in-doping-inquiry.html

Very interesting article on the WADA website: Check out page 6 to 7 and compare sports:

makes for interesting reading and comparison.

http://www.wada-ama.org/Documents/Resources/Testing-Figures/WADA-2011-Laboratory-Testing-Figures.pdf

It's a good good day for the sport to whittle out some cheats at last! The anti-dopers are so far behind the dopers it's a joke. It's time filthy Athletics cleaned up it's problems. I doubt the day will come but at least this is good news.

You can buy EPO from high street shops in the big cities in Kenya.

Kenya doesn't have any out of competition testing (they're like Jamaica in the sense that they need the IAAF to come and do the business.)

No Kenyans ever get caught. (Besides Kisorio this year, which was a bit of a shock.)

For those of us with an ounce of sense, this isn't a 'sad sad day for the sport' because we knew it was happening. The fact that it's being exposed is perhaps a good day for the sport. Not all Kenyans are doping of course, but there is a significant proportion that are. Don't know how many of those are at the top level, mind you.

"You can buy EPO from high street shops in the big cities in Kenya".


Really?

On another note, going by WADA stats it would seems like doping is rife across all sports. Track and Field is not even the dopiest sports percentage wise.

It is the most tested sport.


http://www.wada-ama.org/Documents/Resources/Testing-Figures/WADA-2011-Laboratory-Testing-Figures.pdf

It is even cleaner than cylcing according to these stats.

djlovesyou wrote:="djlovesyou"]You can buy EPO from high street shops in the big cities in Kenya.

Kenya doesn't have any out of competition testing (they're like Jamaica in the sense that they need the IAAF to come and do the business.)

Allegation, which of course you can back up as usual ? I don't think that you understand the difference between: "These countries do less OOC testing" which is likely since they seem more heavily tested by the IAAF (as you rightly, pointed out) and "these countries do not conduct OOC testing at all" which you keep repeating without source.

djlovesyou wrote:
No Kenyans ever get caught. (Besides Kisorio this year, which was a bit of a shock.)

Allow me to question your credibility. You just have to go to the IAAF website under the list of athletes currently serving a ban.

djlovesyou wrote:
For those of us with an ounce of sense, this isn't a 'sad sad day for the sport' because we knew it was happening. The fact that it's being exposed is perhaps a good day for the sport. Not all Kenyans are doping of course, but there is a significant proportion that are. Don't know how many of those are at the top level, mind you.

There are, of course, Kenyans that dope, after all distance running is not a skill sport and rely heavily on endurance which can be improved by various means, including "illegal ones". It will be interesting to see what will be the results of this investigation. The good news here is that the Kenyan federation doesn't seem to be in "denial mode" and requested Police investigation (not sure how efficient Kenyan Police is, though). It is also interesting to see that there are also lot of athletes from various countries who go in "training camp" off-season in Kenya including those who come from countries which claims to be "at the forefront of the anti-doping struggle". If doping is widespread wonder if they go only there to train...

djlovesyou wrote:

"For those of us with an ounce of sense, this isn't a 'sad sad day for the sport' because we knew it was happening".

If the allegations are true and doping is proved to be widespread in Kenya. That will be a sad thing.

I am not saying it is sad that they are caught.

What would be sad is a group of cheaters tarnishing the reputation of long distance running and also Kenya's proud tradition in long distance running.



"The good news here is that the Kenyan federation doesn't seem to be in "denial mode" and requested Police investigation (not sure how efficient Kenyan Police is, though)".

I have no confidence in Kenyan Police, they are inept and corrupt to the core. They should seek outside help to ensure the process is credible and through.

They're only not in denial mode because it was all caught on camera in the documentary.

When the documentary first came out the initial line was that no Kenyan athletes do anything wrong and the film maker was a jealous fraud (same old story.) Then they changed it to saying that maybe there was EPO available but only the foreign athletes that train in Kenya use it (That one looks like Babario's line too). Now they're realising that they can't just get around this by giving angry denials.

Babario - Kenya doesn't have any system to test it's own athletes. 100% of all testing is done by the IAAF. The foreign athletes that train there (Brits for example) are still under the whereabouts rule from their own anti-doping agencies - it doesn't matter whether they're in Ipswich or Iten, they still have to give there whereabouts for 1 hour every day.

djlovesyou wrote:They're only not in denial mode because it was all caught on camera in the documentary.

When the documentary first came out the initial line was that no Kenyan athletes do anything wrong and the film maker was a jealous fraud (same old story.) Then they changed it to saying that maybe there was EPO available but only the foreign athletes that train in Kenya use it (That one looks like Babario's line too). Now they're realising that they can't just get around this by giving angry denials.

Babario - Kenya doesn't have any system to test it's own athletes. 100% of all testing is done by the IAAF. The foreign athletes that train there (Brits for example) are still under the whereabouts rule from their own anti-doping agencies - it doesn't matter whether they're in Ipswich or Iten, they still have to give there whereabouts for 1 hour every day.

Thanks you for backing up your statements with...
BTW, every "World Class" athlete who are part of a select "registered testing pool" are under whereabouts rules not only the British ones. Staying in "denial mode" would have been relatively easy since these allegations came from the claims of one athlete interviewed by a foreign journalist. Any Fed would have questioned these kind of claims as long as they are not backed up by proofs. But yes, you could argue they could have taken this athlete seriously sooner.

As for the "That one looks like Babario's line too", well thank you for judging on intent, you seem to love putting words on people's mouth (as it is not the first time you're doing this), maybe I should call you an outright liar for your various unsourced claims.

I see djlovesyou is high on allegations but low on sourcing. Quell surprise. We are supposed to take his word once again.

Right Babario. The IAAF 'whereabouts rule' means you have to state a general area that you're training in. Say, Eldoret, Addis Ababa, Kingston. If a tester turns up and you're not there, all you have to do is give a good reason for not being there and they let you off.

The 'whereabouts rule' for British athletes (and from a number of other nations) involves given a detailed day by day plan of where you will be for an hour every single day. If you're not there when the tester turns up, it counts as a missed test no questions asked. 3 missed and you're banned.

You should watch the documentary too, I can tell you haven't. It wasn't a claim from one athlete interviewed by a foreign journo. The journalist walked into a shop posing as an agent and bought EPO for his 'athletes', no questions asked. The shopkeeper told him that this was perfectly legal and common practice.

What is your interest in athletics Babario? Are you just a casual fan with strong opinions but limited knowledge? Different from az, who's not really a fan but still has strong opinions with zero knowledge.

Which 'allegations' do you have a problem with az? Am I going to have to do a babysitting job so that the boxing people can discuss in peace for a while again?

The one which you clearly ran away from on the other thread. No worries mate. We're used to it now.

Mate I have been following athletics for many years and was a former sprinter at Haringey athletics club. Not very good and gave up aged 20 (parties women and all that). I can tell that you are just a reader of the sport.

The other threads got locked because you can't behave.

So you went to an athletic club for a few sessions? Good for you. Doesn't really mean you were really involved in the sport.

I'm a distance runner with PBs of around 14.20/30.00/67.00. Nothing special but a little bit more than 'a reader of the sport'.

The thread is wide open mate. Go for it and knock yourself out. Its the out of competition testing thread. The question Babario asked you which I reposted and you still failed to respond to even though you responded to posts which came after it. Strange that.

Nope. I was at the club for 8 years. PB for 110 of 14.51. As I said, not very good. Brilliant until the second hurdle. Technically good over all of them but lacked the basic speed. 400H is a man killer so tried it once and gave up on that.

Yep, a reader of sprinting. Figured that anyway.

You just made your times up though.

If you're going to lie about a time, don't make it so fast that it essentially puts you close to being top 100 alltime in the country. Then you just look a little bit silly.

If you say so.

Is this your avoidance tactic again?

Are you saying that you were as good as Dean Macey over 110H? It's pretty impressive given you gave up so young. Prodigious some might say, shame you didn't realise just how talented you were.

Not really. Lloyd Cowan was running 14.3 at a younger age. He broke 14s and I realised that I was never good enough to get past regional level. Semi finalist in English schools though. All downhill from there. But why not respond to the other question or are you still avoiding it.

Enough about me.

So you are saying you're as good as Dean Macey at the 110H?

You went a little bit too fast with your made up time. You didn't realise just how quick that was.

Do you realise that I bumped the thread for you are still you avoid it?

What question?

Bit irrelevant now given the whole 14.51 nonsense, yep?

Typical. Never mind mate. Your avoidance is telling. Why debate if you just make things up and refuse to respond to points raised.

BTW, yes I was as good as Macey and yes I was a q/f in the AAAs.

djlovesyou wrote:Right Babario. The IAAF 'whereabouts rule' means you have to state a general area that you're training in. Say, Eldoret, Addis Ababa, Kingston. If a tester turns up and you're not there, all you have to do is give a good reason for not being there and they let you off.

Then you should give a list of athletes who have benefited of indulgence after missing an OOC test, and who were later forgiven after giving an excuse for a no-show. One only has to check a list of doping case in athletics to see that there has several cases of athletes banned for missed test coming from countries "less efficient anti-doping" bodies

djlovesyou wrote:
The 'whereabouts rule' for British athletes (and from a number of other nations) involves given a detailed day by day plan of where you will be for an hour every single day. If you're not there when the tester turns up, it counts as a missed test no questions asked. 3 missed and you're banned.

The British whereabouts rule as you describe it looks to be exactly the same than the IAAF one (one hour testing slot everyday of a year). I think that you should read both IAAF advisory note on whereabouts and the UKAD one which are roughly carbon copies that are based on WADA testing protocol. Secondly, I'm learning that any national anti-doping body can send its own testers hounding their athletes in foreign countries when they have apparently no jurisdiction. Note that the best British athletes are also on the IAAF whereabouts program . Also the three missed tests policy give the chance to anybody whatever their nationality to do "their business" twice with only a warning as "reward" since no-shows are revealed until you miss for the third time.

djlovesyou wrote:
You should watch the documentary too, I can tell you haven't. It wasn't a claim from one athlete interviewed by a foreign journo. The journalist walked into a shop posing as an agent and bought EPO for his 'athletes', no questions asked. The shopkeeper told him that this was perfectly legal and common practice.

What is your interest in athletics Babario? Are you just a casual fan with strong opinions but limited knowledge? Different from az, who's not really a fan but still has strong opinions with zero knowledge.

Limited in knowledge not really, nobody here is denying that the British anti-doping testing regime is probably better than the Kenyan one, or that of many other countries. Nothing against you really. But many of your claim seems to be based on prejudice and not true facts. There is nothing wrong in questioning the claims of an anonymous forumer . You're vision of things seem to be a little bit too manichean.

azania wrote:The thread is wide open mate. Go for it and knock yourself out. Its the out of competition testing thread. The question Babario asked you which I reposted and you still failed to respond to even though you responded to posts which came after it. Strange that.

Nope. I was at the club for 8 years. PB for 110 of 14.51. As I said, not very good. Brilliant until the second hurdle. Technically good over all of them but lacked the basic speed. 400H is a man killer so tried it once and gave up on that.

Yep, a reader of sprinting. Figured that anyway.

If this time was run as a junior, you should precise whether it was high or low hurdles.

It wasn't run. He thought it was a time that made him credible but not that good.

He just went a little bit fast with his time.

And now he says he was a q/f at the AAA's. There have never been quarter finals of the 110H at the AAA's.

Babario wrote:

azania wrote:The thread is wide open mate. Go for it and knock yourself out. Its the out of competition testing thread. The question Babario asked you which I reposted and you still failed to respond to even though you responded to posts which came after it. Strange that.

Nope. I was at the club for 8 years. PB for 110 of 14.51. As I said, not very good. Brilliant until the second hurdle. Technically good over all of them but lacked the basic speed. 400H is a man killer so tried it once and gave up on that.

Yep, a reader of sprinting. Figured that anyway.

If this time was run as a junior, you should precise whether it was high or low hurdles.

As a senior over high hurdles. Being 6ft 3in helps and a following wind. Came third in the race won by Lloyd Cowan. Trained at New River Sports Centre where most of the best British Sprinters trained (Christie being the exception). Gus like Clarance Callender, Reid, McFarlane, Shirley Thomas, Darren Braithwaithe, Tony Jarrett and many others. Mickey Mac was the man but Jarret was the talent. A wonderfully gifted female sprinter by the name of Nathalie Byer ran 13.3 at aged 16 beating Shirley Strong's UK junior runner and placed her 5th at all levels. A shoe in for sub 13 and a place at LA Games but she became pregnant (not mine) at 18 and quit. Extremely beautiful runner both physically and aesthetically.

djlovesyou wrote:It wasn't run. He thought it was a time that made him credible but not that good.

He just went a little bit fast with his time.

And now he says he was a q/f at the AAA's. There have never been quarter finals of the 110H at the AAA's.

If you say so.

Fair play it takes a good "PED use" thread to get the Athletics board going!

I must admit that since debating with you guys I went from having the belief that about half the athletes are doping but now I think it's more like 75%!

I had a quiz question yesterday in my local quiz and no-one else knew it on my team. You wouldn't believe it but the question was:

In athletics, which athlete is nicknamed "The Beast"?

""I had a quiz question yesterday in my local quiz and no-one else knew it on my team. You wouldn't believe it but the question was:

In athletics, which athlete is nicknamed "The Beast"? ""

LOL...LOL

Thanks for that Azania -I've just gone all misty-eyed at the memory of the gorgeous Nathalie Byer.

trickstat wrote:Thanks for that Azania -I've just gone all misty-eyed at the memory of the gorgeous Nathalie Byer.

Absolutely stunning woman. Even better runner and would have been a major talent.