Coaches...the good, the bad, the...

A quick 2 questions:

1. Who is or has been the best tennis coach of the Open Era?
2. Which coaches are/were really bad, or held back their player's career?

I don't who is the best or the worst coach. It is really a hard question. I would put uncle toni as possibly coach of the century because of how instrumental he was in the creation of Nadal. In my mind no tennis record would have been safe if Toni's tennis creation didn't have bad knees. But growing up on clay Toni set out to create the ultimate clay court tennis player. Certainly he had great starting material. But as I come from a family of carpenters I can tell you that to make a great piece of furniture you have to use some nice walnut or possibly a birds eye maple not pine board. And the result was that he did turn his nephew into the best clay courter ever. Toni has been super successful and instrumental in regards to one player.

Others like Toni Roche or Annacone have had success with numerous different guys. It all depends a very subjective question.

Worst coach was martin he cost Novak 2 years of playing with a WTA serve.

Nice answers socal. Yes I tend to agree that many tennis records would have been further shattered if not for Rafa's 1.5 years total absence from the game since 2005 - due to his congenital foot problem basically, for all the talk of his grinding play and style, its been his feet and the corrective treatment that have been his undoing not his gamestyle. The "starting material" is an interesting one. All coaches need that - "you cant polish a t*rd" are they eloquently say around these parts. Nadal showed tremendous promise from an early age, which Toni spotted. He also preferred to play with his left arm which Toni didnt stop. But is he the best coach ever?

Another candidate is Brad Gilbert who did wonders for Agassi game...but the most influential factor on Agassi wasnt Gilbert...but his physical coach - Gil Reyes. Of Reyes, Agassi said in 2005 at the age of 35, "Gil is the reason why I've won more Slams after the age of 29 than I did before. He's the reason why I'm still out there playing this sport at a time in my life when I can really understand and appreciate it".

Another candidate might be Annacone in that he helped top guys find that extra something special through aggressive play...e.g. with Sampras, Federer and Henman. He got more titles from them later into their careers when others started drying up.

I would agree Martin was a disaster for Djokovic...as was the ill advised racquet change. And then we see the destructive coaches like Docic's father, who control everything about their charge's tennis life to the point the player doesnt enjoy the game.

Exactly it is the starting material that is crucial. As a manufacturer or lets say coach in the tennis context you can't turn crap into gold, your incompetence could turn gold in to crap, but it doesn't work the other way around. Although I will say without getting into the minutia of talent vs. work that without work ethic nothing is possible. Still the starting material is crucial. Have you seen Nadal's family? Does everyone's family look like these people. They are tall, good looking, looking much younger than their age, and as fit as fiddles. His other uncle who played for Barca looks like he could still go out and make some bone jarring tackles. So genetics, dna, or talent or whatever we are calling it nowadays is crucial.

And let me tell you an athlete who has the coordination to play lefty like that along with mastering such unorthodox tennis techniques. Toni was ahead of the curve in realizing that the future of tennis was not in raw power but in spin. Nadal smashed all the forms for what a tennis champion should be, with all do respect to Vilas or Borg. Djokovic included I still don't believe there is a player that turns desperate defense to attack in one shot like Nadal. And it comes from a mix of his own physical gifts and work ethic put together with uncle toni's master plan and discipline. The master plan was visionary. The selling out of pace for spin to a level that would have been laughed at frankly, and has been by the critics who call it moonballing.

But that strategy when matched against even the goat proved to be brutally effective over the long haul.

socal1976 wrote:Exactly it is the starting material that is crucial. As a manufacturer or lets say coach in the tennis context you can't turn crap into gold, your incompetence could turn gold in to crap, but it doesn't work the other way around. Although I will say without getting into the minutia of talent vs. work that without work ethic nothing is possible. Still the starting material is crucial. Have you seen Nadal's family? Does everyone's family look like these people. They are tall, good looking, looking much younger than their age, and as fit as fiddles. His other uncle who played for Barca looks like he could still go out and make some bone jarring tackles. So genetics, dna, or talent or whatever we are calling it nowadays is crucial.

And let me tell you an athlete who has the coordination to play lefty like that along with mastering such unorthodox tennis techniques. Toni was ahead of the curve in realizing that the future of tennis was not in raw power but in spin. Nadal smashed all the forms for what a tennis champion should be, with all do respect to Vilas or Borg. Djokovic included I still don't believe there is a player that turns desperate defense to attack in one shot like Nadal. And it comes from a mix of his own physical gifts and work ethic put together with uncle toni's master plan and discipline. The master plan was visionary. The selling out of pace for spin to a level that would have been laughed at frankly, and has been by the critics who call it moonballing.

But that strategy when matched against even the goat proved to be brutally effective over the long haul.

Socal, fantastic post

TY, IMBL glad you liked it.

Mouratoglou, Roche, Rasheed, Stefanki are all quality coaches.

For me the best was Bob Brett.

Nice post Socal. If anyone has stood behind Nadal whilst he's hitting balls in practice, they would never call it moonballing. He hits the ball "huge" too...power and spin. The way he hits that FH is unreal, the use of stretch shortening cycles with a loose wrist to get that easy but massively whipped spin and follow through around his back is so unique and hard to replicate...I don't even know how you would coach it from scratch, it has to be natural. Toni is good, no doubt, but I do wonder how good Rafa actually makes Toni look, rather than the presumed other way round.

lydian wrote:The way he hits that FH is unreal, the use of stretch shortening cycles with a loose wrist to get that easy but massively whipped spin and follow through around his back is so unique and hard to replicate...I don't even know how you would coach it from scratch, it has to be natural. Toni is good, no doubt, but I do wonder how good Rafa actually makes Toni look, rather than the presumed other way round.

No, it's all about stamina I'm afraid. He doesn't hit the FH, his superior stamina hits it for him.

Yeah of course...no talent. Watch him hit here...watch the ease of that FH, it's follow through, it's all a wonder of timing and natural ability. And of course notice all that slappy, weak moonballing too...

When he connects with that FH the sound off the strings is amazing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPP1R1Gumq4

You don't get 11 Slams, including a record breaking number at Roland Garros, for nothing do you

No. I would pay a lot of money to be able to play a FH like that. But money alone cant do it.
As a coach in the game that stroke never ceases to amaze me...it's still a unique shot in tennis, no-one else can generate the RPM he does, not even near.

Difficult question to answer.

In many ways the best coaches are the ones who identify raw talent and take it as far as they can rather than perhaps those who get paid very nicely thank you because of who they are usually from previous success on the tour.

Very few coaches though seem to stay with players they've had since their junior playing days. Laura Robson is one obvious example where the coach turnover has been very high although her game certainly doesn't seem to have unduly suffered as an end result.

Lydian
He is a genius.
As is Roger.

We are lucky to be able to witness such players.
Even Djokovic and Murray will create their legacy too I feel.

Agree newballs...that nurturing ability is a skill in itself. Yes, unless they're family the players usually moves onto a different performance from late teens,

Yes IMBL, Roger is an unreal ball striker too. They all have their unique 'quirks'. Although I don't think Murray is quite in the same class of clean ball striking (although his BH is class), he's in the process of making his own statement now, just needs to stay aggressive...and wrt OP, he seems to have settled on a coach that can not only work with him but match his perfectionism for improvement.

Good posts Lydian. Yes Nadal can hit extremely high numbers for miles per hour when he does flatten out and no one can approach the RPMs he does. A very difficult forehand to learn but I am pretty sure Nadal didn't start out that western on his forehand and with that lasso swing. I don't think it is a case of Nadal making Toni look good I think they work together. But the way Nadal plays is not something that is natural or comes natural to great talents. I am sure Toni taught him how to play the best way for a clay court from a very young age. That is probably why the sell outing for so much spin and such western grips. That has to be a coaching influence not too many people just make up a grip and swing so technically complicated and unnatural feeling on their own as a kid starting out. You watch most kids and the very young ones they start out eastern. Almost universally from what I see that to start the young kids are started eastern because it feels so much more normal and natural to grip the racquet that way.

Lennart Bergelin's not been mentioned yet.
I still reckon Henman and Stefanki were a bad partnership.

Physically there's not much you can do to improve on Henman's game no matter who his coach was.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1356499-david-ferrer-from-locked-in-a-closet-to-a-lock-on-a-grand-slam

It seems that Ferrer had some very "unusual" coaching but it obviously worked

For me Paul Annacone and Toni Nadal.

I tend to take the view that good coach leaves their influence on the player and how they play on court. Annacone had big shoes to feel when he took on Sampras. He continued in the same vein as Tim Gullikson. If anything Pete became a much better player. Also the work he has done with Federer has been amazing too.

Toni deserves credit for the way he coached Nadal and how far ahead of the curve he was to develop the brand of tennis which many players since have tried to incorporate into their game. The past is littered with so many failed family partnerships and yet this one has flourished with great success. Also the impact he has had on Rafa as an individual and values he has imparted on him is also something special.

Brad Gilbert and Peter Lundgren deserve a small mention too.

At no time in the future of tennis will Rafa´s name be mentioned without that of his Uncle, Mentor and Coach..Toni. he as also written his name in the history books as being the man behind a champion.

For me Paul Annacone and Toni Nadal.

Toni was gifted an athlete lets see if he can even coach someone unrelated to him.

Any jockey can ride the best horse let's see what happens when they ride an average one!

"Brad Gilbert and Peter Lundgren deserve a small mention too."

The former for being the biggest loud mouth going and the latter for getting totally plastered at an LTA coaching conference no doubt!

newballs wrote:"Brad Gilbert and Peter Lundgren deserve a small mention too."

The former for being the biggest loud mouth going and the latter for getting totally plastered at an LTA coaching conference no doubt!

Good on Peter, never trust a man that won't have a drink with you. Brad I understand likes bud lite, uggggghhh!!!!

Article from Uncle Toni

http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article/113270/toni-nadal-reveals-why-he-succeeded-as-a-coach