Wilko bids to make the Lions

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/19820611


Never say never but I'd say pretty unlikely.

Why is there talk about having a 10 who can kick goals? We'll have super Leigh Halfpenny for that

HERSH wrote:
It's only Aus at the end of the day, even England win downunder.

... as does Somoa, Scotland, Fiji.........

Ermm problem is lads- isnt it gonna be a mainly welsh side- What chance do we have down under

So 8 10's cant keep out Wilko for the Lions tour?

that sounds about right

PS: GeordieFalcon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2USK9DolxU

GeordieFalcon wrote:TJ

Yawn...every Wilko crictic simply brings out the "he couldnt attack" rubbish.

Get yourself on Youtube and actually watch some of his play...dont just go along with the sheep!

Oh I watched him play a lot. Its very simple - he was never anything more than adequate with the ball in hand. As for the lions - the last lions tour he was on he was awful. AWOL half the game hiding in the centres ( or even behind them) and not taking the ball at first receiver and certainly not bossing the game as he should - and sitting so deep when at first receiver.

I want a 10 who does more than kick for territory and wait for penalties

Wilkinson kicked 10 from 20 in the RWC. (That's 50% success rate).

Despite the boot not being what it was, you don't need to be a running 10 with the Gatland kick/chase/defend tactic and his experience may be worth something.

The Lions won't even attempt any running rugby - I think he'll be 'on that plane'.

TJ wrote:I want a 10 who does more than kick for territory and wait for penalties

Theres this fella playing over in France you have to check out. . . .

Yawn....TJ...no point even discussing with you...cos what you've just said there is utter tosh.

AWOL half the game???
Adequate ball in hand??
NOt taking the ball at first receiver??
Not bossing the game??

Its laughable.

red_stag wrote:

TJ wrote:I want a 10 who does more than kick for territory and wait for penalties

Theres this fella playing over in France you have to check out. . . .

James Hook or Olly Barkley?

GeordieFalcon wrote:Yawn....TJ...no point even discussing with you...cos what you've just said there is utter tosh.

AWOL half the game???
Adequate ball in hand??
NOt taking the ball at first receiver??
Not bossing the game??

Its laughable.

Wrong!

It's wumming.

Has anyone actually read the interview? Gatland has already said that he would consider players not playing test rugby. He has also said that players in that position will have to be in a side performing particularly well. For me that means the latter stages of the HC.

Wilkinson has said he ‘could not turn it down’ if selected, but rrcognises yhat of Toulon make the T14 final it's all bets off.

TJ –You do realise that on the last tour Wilkinson played on (2005) he was actually SELECTED to play at inside centre in the first test. He played at 10 in the second test and was injured for the third test.

Plus I suggest that you go back and look at the number of tries England scored when Wilkinson was at 10 for England between 2000 and 2003 before a whole raft of injuries effectively put him out of international rugby for several years.

Why do I get the impression that you would rather have no English players on next year’s tour?

GeordieFalcon wrote:Yawn....TJ...no point even discussing with you...cos what you've just said there is utter tosh.

AWOL half the game???
Adequate ball in hand??
NOt taking the ball at first receiver??
Not bossing the game??

Its laughable.

Did you watch the games in question? I did. Last Lions tour he was on.

Yes he did go awol for long periods - he was standing wide of the inside centre so in no position to influence anything
Yes he only ever was adequate with ball in hand. Great kicker, great defensivly, never more than adequate for an international fly half with the ball in hand - he looked his best with Greenwood outside him
Yes in the game in question he did not take the ball at first receiver hardly every - see point 1
And thus he was unable to boss the game.

I suggest yo go and look at a vid of these games and actually see what he did.

Anyone who really knows rugby understands wilkos strengths and weaknesses. At his best he was good and suited very well the England style of the era. Unfortunately that era is gone.

Hound_of_Harrow wrote:
TJ –You do realise that on the last tour Wilkinson played on (2005) he was actually SELECTED to play at inside centre in the first test. He played at 10 in the second test and was injured for the third test.

yes and its the second test I refer to.

Why do I get the impression that you would rather have no English players on next year’s tour?

[quote]
More than happy to have England players there on merit.

And also can I say that IMO Johnson was an all time great - and he was the catalyst for England winning the WC.

Suck up.

[quote="TJ"]

Hound_of_Harrow wrote:
TJ –You do realise that on the last tour Wilkinson played on (2005) he was actually SELECTED to play at inside centre in the first test. He played at 10 in the second test and was injured for the third test.

yes and its the second test I refer to.

Why do I get the impression that you would rather have no English players on next year’s tour?

More than happy to have England players there on merit.

And also can I say that IMO Johnson was an all time great - and he was the catalyst for England winning the WC.

Judging any Lions player on that test is a bit harsh, the whole team ran into a big black brick wall.

On this season's club form to date (something you apparently haven't seen) JW is one of the top 5 fly halves in Europe. And since Nick Evans and Luke McAllister aren't eligible for the Lions ...

If JW is one of the top fly halves in Europe I am a fairy godmother.

I know he is playing decently for his club by all accounts - but the old faults are still there. its almost 2013, 2003 was ten years ago. He is yesterdays man.

Hound_of_Harrow wrote:Has anyone actually read the interview? Gatland has already said that he would consider players not playing test rugby. He has also said that players in that position will have to be in a side performing particularly well. For me that means the latter stages of the HC.

Wilkinson has said he ‘could not turn it down’ if selected, but rrcognises yhat of Toulon make the T14 final it's all bets off.

TJ –You do realise that on the last tour Wilkinson played on (2005) he was actually SELECTED to play at inside centre in the first test. He played at 10 in the second test and was injured for the third test.

Plus I suggest that you go back and look at the number of tries England scored when Wilkinson was at 10 for England between 2000 and 2003 before a whole raft of injuries effectively put him out of international rugby for several years.

Why do I get the impression that you would rather have no English players on next year’s tour?

So that'll be Cipriani in the frame, then.

So your judging Wilko on one and a bit games for the lions rather than his entire England and club career...

Actually why am i even bothering...

TJ wrote:If JW is one of the top fly halves in Europe I am a fairy godmother.

I know he is playing decently for his club by all accounts - but the old faults are still there. its almost 2013, 2003 was ten years ago. He is yesterdays man.

So you're commenting sight unseen. Enough said, those wings and wand suit you TJ.

JW may not be one of the best fly-halves come the end of the season. Right now he is - Toulon also have Matt Giteau and Freddy Michalak on their books, and JW is the preferred starting 10.

At the end of the Day Wilko could do the job now or next summer.

As could O'Gara

Justice for Wilko!

HERSH wrote:At the end of the Day Wilko could do the job now or next summer.

As could O'Gara

Not as ridiculous as many seem to think when you consider the other (or lack of!) options;

Sexton is out in front but then you've got;

Priestland - inconsistent
Flood - Needs to reclaim England shirt and find consistency
Farrell - Is a kicking fly-half who currently is struggling with his kicking
Laidlaw - Has done well for Scotland but Lions games are brutal and poor tackling doesn't go hand in hand with that!
Hook - Gatland and many others don't seem to want him at 10
O'Gara - More past it than Wilko
Jones - Older than Wilko and behind Nicky Robinson at Wasps

Personally I'd like to see - Sexton, Priestland, Flood and Hook as 4th option go atm, but if any of those first three were injured Wilko would be next on my list.

As kiwireddevil points out everyone wants the squad picked on current form and currently he's the starting 10 at one of the Europes best clubs ahead of Giteau and Michalak.

GeordieFalcon wrote:So your judging Wilko on one and a bit games for the lions rather than his entire England and club career...

Actually why am i even bothering...

No - I am judging him on his career. I simply am not blind to his faults. that one game tho did make his faults very obvious.

Believe me im not blind to his faults either.....

King carlos - Laidlaw has clearly working on his tackling ( he will never be wilko tho for that ). He took heaslip down when he was only a couple of m from the line and did stop him from scoring. Stopped him dead in his tracks.

do not discount him but he does need a good set of internationals to get on the plane. a better player than many think - he is quick of thinking and of foot

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

TJ wrote:If JW is one of the top fly halves in Europe I am a fairy godmother.

I know he is playing decently for his club by all accounts - but the old faults are still there. its almost 2013, 2003 was ten years ago. He is yesterdays man.

So you're commenting sight unseen. Enough said, those wings and wand suit you TJ.

JW may not be one of the best fly-halves come the end of the season. Right now he is - Toulon also have Matt Giteau and Freddy Michalak on their books, and JW is the preferred starting 10.

Giteau plays most of the time at 12 there nowadays and Michalak was hired to be mainly scrum half...however the few times he started at 10, he was very good and Toulon even played some quite attractive brand of rugby (am not kidding). think his time in SA served him very well and he came back as much betetr player (in terms of composure and maturity).

I'd take Ford if I was Gatland.

THink Burns is ahead of Ford, Hersh on current form and number of games...

I'd take a Tiger over a Glaws player everytime.

Glawster players seem to offer a lot but deliver nothing time and time again.

Or you could say they never get a chance to show what they can do?

Thats true, but I might be biased (and bitter) on this one.

To be honest I'd take one of them as a slight curve ball for the Aussies.

Yes im well aware of your colours

Hersh will be seeing red on Saturday. And again later in his sleep. He is pining about losing Barkley too, so not good week for poor old H.

FFS this is all a load of BS.

Wilko will not travel, it would be like getting back together with a girlfriend you went out with 4 years ago just because there is no one else available.....I'd rather pick some Irish bint than do that

Its the usual media love in with Saint Jonny. Of course he would go if asked - but how likely is it he will be asked?

Sexton - defo starter - terrific rugby player

Cover 10 :-
Priestland - having a poor start to the Rabo

Flood - looked good on Saturday v Chiefs (sorry ASBO)

Laidlaw - great kicker and very sharp but too small - is a better SH -could cover both though !

Weir - needs to rediscover his mojo but could do it with a late run - consistent kicker and can kick very, very long too

Wilkinson - not a chance - was awful at Tindall's Stag Doo

Even at the end of his career Jonny gets so much attention. Of course he has a shot to go with the Lions. He is playing quite well at Toulon and appears happier than he was at home. One thing I see watching Toulon is that they do change their game plan significantly, if needed, based upon the opponent. So Jonny might be standing back and kicking a lot in some matches, but in others he plays flatter and gets his backs moving. So he is showing he can play that way - which is how he played as a young gun for Newcastle and England, many moons ago.

To be fair, though, I think his chances of going on tour with the Lions are fairly small. He has retired from International Rugby, and has not played at that level for a while. And he does have the benefit of a strong pack in front of him.

One factor in Jonny's favour is the lack of a strong pool of out-halves at this moment. To me only Sexton is a certainty (barring injury, of course). Flood is probable, but needs to regain the England jumper first. Then there are a lot of young up-and-comers who have shown glimpses of greatness (hopefully on target for the 2015 RWC).

A second factor in Jonny's favour is that he is still a huge name in Rugby globally. Apologies to all Home Nations players, but Jonny is still a bigger name, especially outside our islands. He would bring a lot more attention to the Lions tour.

A third factor is composition of the Toulon team itself. Yes, it has a lot of (former? older?) stars. But this is a team full of people form many different clubs and countries. It takes a strong personality on the pitch to keep them all on the same page and win consistently. It takes a lot more than one training camp to build a cohesive team. Yet, Jonny is a key part of that, very important at 10, and that's a special talent needed almost uniquely with the Lions.

I don't see any reason why Wilkinson would not be considered a decent option should he be playing as well as he has recently for Toulon.

That said the position is so open for debate that like many others we are waiting for a certain candidate to put their hand up and claim the position.

The greatest thing about this season is that I don't think there is a single position where anyone is as yet a certain selection for the squad or match day XV.

Strength and depth is very good this time.

I agree, mate. No one is certain to be selected. The depth is terrific. I suppose it will come down to is the players who best fit the game plan Gatland wants to play. Ironically, the only positon where the talent pool is shallower is 10. A lot of potential, but not a lot of seasoned, quality out-halves.

Completely Doc.

Flyhalf is going to be a hell of a competition, could see a real outsider prove to be the man for the job.

...........and that will add just a little more spice to the season. This is going to be great.

And there should be some pretty meaty discussions for us all along the way, eh? Was talking to someone the other day, and there were virtually no names we could pencil in on a Lions team. Just lots of possibilities.

Full back will be interesting with 4 good contenders - Foden, H/P, Kearney and Hogg

damage_13 wrote:So 8 10's cant keep out Wilko for the Lions tour?

that sounds about right

PS: GeordieFalcon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2USK9DolxU

Yep, Wilkinson was rubbish at getting the backline going, I mean come on, that whole video is full of mediocre up the jumper style rugby isn't it?

As an aside, Ben Cohen was some player back then, some amazing tries in that video

21st,
Although I am not a big fan, Mike Brown might be in the mix as well. But I like to see each nation represented. Every position is going to be tough.

Try picking the back row: I bet you can come up with three or four completely different groups, each quality and each tough as nails.

Doc, aye mate agree - each country could field a rather tasty 6,7 & 8 for the Lions - although since Johnny Beattie's injury and subsequent loss of form our (Scotland as I'm sure you have worked out) 8 options are not as good. Kelly Brown can play 8 as can Dave Denton but they are better at 6 IMHO. Gatland has some big calls to make all over 1-15 and indeed 22 but I really think Wilkinson will not be one of those considerations.

Well come on it's either Wilkinson or Stephen Jones on board.

doctor_grey wrote:...........and that will add just a little more spice to the season. This is going to be great.

And there should be some pretty meaty discussions for us all along the way, eh? Was talking to someone the other day, and there were virtually no names we could pencil in on a Lions team. Just lots of possibilities.

Agreed,

I doubt we will have even the slightest idea of the squad in less than 50 candidates until almost the end of the Six Nations.

THE biggest mistake was to take Wilkinson in 2005 when he was`nt match fit,his RWC form did`nt inspire confidence.He was one of the Greatest England 10`s ever I want to remember him as such.NOT as a player hanging on for another LionsTour. He hasn`t been playing in or with many of his potential teammates.The Lions tour is the only link to major tours and long may it remain so.The weakness of any Lions side is that for political expeidency the best player in a position may not be picked.Because to be PC it must have players from 4[5]unions.As to its only Australia it`s as well to remember they may have a full strength side availabl e then.That even the allBlacks don`t take things for granted in OZ playing Australia