Korea GP Thread - Spoilers inside of Race/Qualifying

by Fernando Wed 10 Oct - 21:09

Round 16 of the 2012 Formula One championship sees the teams make a relatively short journey from Suzuka across the Sea of Japan to the South Korean port city of Mokpo and the nearby Korean International Circuit.

The circuit, completed just in time for the inaugural race here in 2010, presents some stern challenges for the teams, mostly centred around how to maintain the integrity of the tyres around its 5.615km distance. With the facility being used very infrequently, the Yeongam circuit is always dirty during the weekend’s opening sessions and is low on grip. To cope with this Pirelli has brought its softest compounds. However, the circuit also has a relatively abrasive surface and a mix of mostly medium and high-speed corners, so lateral loads are high and wear rates can be debilitating. The tyres take a beating as a consequence. Good management or rubber could be the deciding factor here in Korea.

Drivers’ Championship leader Fernando Alonso suffered a shock first-lap exit in Suzuka and the incident leaves the chase for the 2012 title finely balanced. Sebastian Vettel’s win in Japan has put the Red Bull Racing driver within touching distance of the Ferrari man’s increasingly fragile lead in the standings and Alonso has thus called the final five races of the season a “mini-championship”. If that’s the case then, with just four points separating him from Vettel, the Spaniard needs a big result in round one in Korea to keep his title hopes alive.

Vettel, meanwhile, became the first driver to score consecutive wins this season with victory in Suzuka and the momentum now seems firmly with the defending champion. But the KIC has been both cruel and kind to the German, with a DNF in the inaugural race being followed by victory last year. He’ll be hoping for a repeat of 2011 but if the teams and drivers have learned one thing this season it is to expect the unexpected and this race should be no exception. A fascinating weekend awaits.

CIRCUIT DATA

KOREAN INTERNATIONAL CIRCUIT

Length of lap:

5.615km

Lap record:

1:39.605

(Sebastian Vettel, Red Bull Racing, 2011)

Start line/finish line offset:
0.195km
Total number of race laps:
55
Total race distance:

308.630km
Pitlane speed limits:
60km/h during practice and qualifying, 100km/h during the race

Changes to the circuit since 2011
► A number of verges have been laid with asphalt and painted with green non-slip paint and drainage has been improved in the pit entry.
► The artificial grass on the exit of turn 13 has been extended as far as the end of the asphalt run-off.
► The “sausage” kerb on the apex of turn 18 has been lowered by approximately 30mm and the leading 1.5m chamfered linearly to zero.
► Higher debris fences have been installed on the right between turns 7 and 9.

DRS Zone
► The DRS zone on the main straight has been extended by 80m.

► This will be the third Korean Grand Prix. The race joined the calendar in 2010.
► Pirelli will bring its yellow-banded soft and red-banded supersoft tyres to this race. The low-grip nature of the surface here in Yeongam means this race will see the same compounds used as in Monaco, Canada and Singapore.
► The 2010 race saw Sebastian Vettel start from pole. Team-mate Mark Webber lined up beside him to give Red Bull Racing its eighth front-row lockout of the season. Neither driver finished the race, however. Webber crashed out on lap 19 and Vettel suffered an engine failure on lap 46.
► That inaugural race began under the safety car when heavy downpours caused the start to be delayed by 10 minutes. However, the conditions worsened and after just three laps racing was suspended. A 45-minute hiatus followed before the track became usable but again the race was started under the course car. After 17 laps the safety car departed and racing began. After 55 laps, as darkness fell across the track, the race was finally won by Fernando Alonso.
► Vettel has been on the front row for both his Korean GP starts, the German lining up behind pole position winner Lewis Hamilton last year.
► Hamilton, meanwhile, has finished both his Korean GPs in second place. In 2010 he rose two places from fourth on the grid but last time out was passed by Vettel on lap one of the race and failed to reel in the dominant Red Bull Racing RB7 over the course of the following 55 laps.
► Last year’s pole position for Lewis Hamilton was the only time in 2011 that a Red Bull Racing car was not at the front of the grid. Hamilton’s achievement was particular satisfying for McLaren as it was the team’s 700th grand prix.
► First and third places for Vettel and Webber respectively last year brought Red Bull Racing enough points to claim back-to-back Constructors’ Championship titles, with three races in hand. Vettel had claimed his second Drivers’ crown a week earlier in Japan.
► Jean-Eric Vergne made his race weekend debut here last year, appearing as a Friday driver for Toro Rosso. It was a tricky debut as the session was wet and there was little action for the first hour. Vergne ended the session with the 13th quickest time, lapping in 2:07.541, some 4.757 seconds adrift of Michael Schumacher’s timesheet-topping lap. However, his performance and further Friday appearances in Abu Dhabi and Brazil were enough to later convince the team that he would be a suitable team-mate for Daniel Ricciardo this year.
► The main straight at the Korea International Circuit covers 1050m, the fourth longest of the season, after Shanghai International Circuit (1170m), Abu Dhabi’s Yas Marina (1140m) and Italy’s Monza (1120m).

Weather Forecast: Expected to be dry : http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/1841066
Source: Fia/BBC

by Guest Thu 11 Oct - 15:29

I remember Hamilton's unbelievable Q3 lap at Korea last year, we could do with that performance again on Saturday.

by Fernando Fri 12 Oct - 12:22

Though Friday appearances can be deceptive, it looks as if the Korean GP will prove to be fascinating battle of strategic chess with Red Bull holding the advantage in qualy trim but both Ferrari and McLaren boasting the edge in race trim.

While Sebastian Vettel set the headline-grabbing fastest time in Friday's Practice Two, the small print of the afternoon session revealed plenty of tangible encouragement for Ferrari and McLaren - and hopes for a classic grand prix on Sunday - with Fernando Alonso and Jenson Button consistently faster than both Red Bulls when running heavy fuel loads on the super-soft compound.

"You are the fastest car on option tyres. This pace is very, very good," an evidently-impressed McLaren assured Jenson as he regularly lapped around two-tenths faster than Vettel and another couple of tenths quicker than Mark Webber in the second Red Bull.

The average times of World Championship leader Alonso whilst running his race simulation were quicker still, the Spaniard appearing to be several tenths faster than the two Red Bulls

"It was the long runs rather than the glory runs which caught my attention," noted Sky Sports F1's Martin Brundle. "It looks intensely competitive, with a lot of cars in the one minute forty-fives.The Ferraris look very strong - and stronger than they did in Suzuka. It bodes well for a very intense race."

Were Friday's pattern to be repeated then the weekend is set up for a classic tortoise-and-hare scenario with the RB8 - adorned by a new front-wing which Brundle termed as a "work of art" - on top in qualifying before being steadily reeled in on Sunday.

Vettel certainly admitted to reporters afterwards that, although Red Bull could be happy with their opening day's work, they still needed to respond to the pace displayed by their key rivals.

Yet while Button and the two Ferraris impressed, Lewis Hamilton endured another troubled day at the office despite setting the morning's fastest time on soft tyres that had already completed over twenty laps. In contrast to Button's serene progress in the afternoon, Hamilton failed to improve his fastest lap when running the super-softs and then aborted his race simulation on the softs after flat-spotting a tyre at the first corner.

"The first session was fantastic so I don't really know what's happened in this session," Hamilton lamented to Sky Sports News.

"We need to analyse and I need to look [at what happened]. Wind directions change but it didn't seem to affect other people so I have to try and figure that out."

Yet with Hamilton ending the day short of data and on the backfoot, he may have to turn to Button for help - a prospect carrying the additional resonance of their midweek twitter malarkey.

"First of all Lewis has to find out from his engineers whether there is anything wrong with the McLaren because the way his tyres dropped off so dramatically he might think there's maybe a broken bit of suspension or maybe an anti-roll bar or something isn't working badly because it was that bad," confirmed Sky F1's Ted Kravitz.

"Normally Lewis Hamilton can drive around problems like that, but he couldn't. So firstly they'll see if something's wrong; secondly they will share pretty much all their information and if necessary Hamilton will take Button's set-up. He can drive fairly well with that and we'll see if that works well for him in third practice.

Source: Sky Sports

by lorus59 Sat 13 Oct - 11:06

Not many people seem to be too interested in this race. I wonder if Hamilton or Button were dominant, would there be more interest?

by liverbnz Sat 13 Oct - 12:09

Brilliant from Webber given he had limited time in p3. Clean side of the track is more crucial here than elsewhere so he's on the right side of the grid as well. Good start needed tomorrow though and he's still a little iffy there.

by Guest Sat 13 Oct - 14:28

The atmosphere at Korea is appaling and the grandstandsare just filled with people who have no idea what's actually happening. I don't think it's got anything to do with Hamilton or Button not dominating, also a 7am race start is never ideal for European fans.

As for qualifying it was relatively exciting. Webber produced a superb lap and then we had to hear the cry baby complaining about Massa holding him up in the outlap......jog on finger. Hamilton produced the maximum he could and I think being on the clean side in 3rd is a good result, seeing as McLaren nearly fouled up in Q1. Slightly worried about his tyres though or whatever sets he hasnt destroyed yet that will be used.

Basically the race in my opinion will be decided by turn 4. I think Hamilton can drag race one of the Red Bulls down into turn 3 and take them, which one though is the big question. Will Webber allow Vettel past at the start or somewhere down the straight before turn 3. Then throw Alonso in the mix and it could be crazy. I do think though whoever is leading exiting turn 4 will probably win the race. Expect Button and Perez to come through the field and pick off some of the places outside the podium.

Hopefully Hamilton and that McLaren can produce and keep this title dream alive but I fear Red Bull will be too strong. Getting up at 6.45am again.....

by lorus59 Sat 13 Oct - 15:09

I see a double world champ and youngest ever champ is not getting much love here. I think he has earned it. He did pay his dues in lesser teams unlike some. I for one won't mind if it's 3-peat of titles.

by mystiroakey Sun 14 Oct - 7:06

anyone watching- Kobyashi!! s ashed up button!! Sad

wrongon!

by AlciG Sun 14 Oct - 8:10

Fernando, Felipe is faster then you

by AlciG Sun 14 Oct - 8:13

Guess not

by Uryu Ishida Sun 14 Oct - 8:38

that Astroturf is awful...

F1 Gangnam Style on the podium?

by beninho Sun 14 Oct - 8:49

Vettel is good. Just to hard to tell how good. Obviously it's all about the car and he has had the best car for 3 years. Likely to be a third time champion.

by lorus59 Sun 14 Oct - 8:49

I like how Vettel always thanks his team for giving him a great car. Classy.

by harryspiv Sun 14 Oct - 8:51

That race was only going to have one outcome, looking at the other races left its vettel's title to lose now.

Mclaren are seriously going backwards, Jenson was unlucky to be taken out but too many mechanical problems costing them and now Ferrari leapfrog them in the championship.

I bet Lewis cannot wait to get to Mercedes!

by Uryu Ishida Sun 14 Oct - 8:54

great race from Grojean and both Toro Rossos though, Lewis must stop stealing mementos of each circuit :P

by beninho Sun 14 Oct - 9:06

2 horse race now. Grosjean did well to not get involved in anything. Good race by massa shame it has taken so long for him to back up Alonso.

by lorus59 Sun 14 Oct - 9:47

Ferrari should still get rid of Massa. He only came to the party when his job was threatened. They need a hungry driver there.

by beninho Sun 14 Oct - 9:58

Massa does the job. Especially if vettel is signed for 2014. Only need massa for a year. I like kobayashi. Shame to see homeland out, even after today's balls up.

by SteveG Sun 14 Oct - 10:48

Shocking day at the office for Mclaren (again). Many have questioned Hamiltons move to a slower team but what does it matter. As the last 3 seasons have proven he'll never win another championship at a Whitmarsh led Mclaren anyway. A welcome change of scenery if you ask me.

As for the race - nothing much to say except once Webber rolled out the red carpet to his teamate at the start - which we all knew he would you didnt need to be Mystic Meg to predict the outcome. Another year and another championship on its way to the fingered one - well done Adrian you've done it again.

Oh and nice to see the smile back on Grojs face.

by mystiroakey Sun 14 Oct - 12:32

shocking for mclarean or seriously bad luck AGAIN!!!

by Guest Sun 14 Oct - 15:16

Where do we start? The race, McLaren, Hamilton or the title?

First things first it was another appaling race, when was the last action packed race full of excitement?.......those days are already gone. It's like F1 has done a full 360. It's gone from completly predictable in 2011 to unpredictable and now unfortunately back to predictable and boring. It was pretty obvious that Webber was going to let Vettel past at the first corner and from then on it was all over, regardless of the constant RB radio messages trying to state otherwise.

McLaren have been totally shocking this season on numerous occassions and unsurprisingly it's another season without a trophy in either drivers or the constructors. How Whitmarsh continues to lead this team is astonishing. To be third in the constructors behind a virtually one man Ferrari team all season is quite frankly embarrasing. The team are already looking towards the future next season and it's says something about the team that they've already cut Lewis Hamilton out of their ridiculous cartoon animation series that is shown on Sky. Typical.

Ted Kravitz summed the situation up perfectly on Ted's Notebook edition. He said Hamilton has basically already 'checked out' of McLaren and the same can be said about McLaren. He stated that the relationship between Button and Whitmarsh, in his opinion, has played a significant role in the tension and akward environment found at McLaren. Button's universal popularity inside McLaren is undoubted and this was in further evidence in Japan. Hamilton booked 16 lanes of bowling in Japan as a thankyou gift to the team, however Lewis later found out the team instead decided to join Jenson on a fun-run. Rolling Eyes

Hamilton cannot join Mercedes any sooner in my opinion.

As for the title, it's pretty much game over for Lewis. Vettel & Red Bull is once again the fastest package and I can't see Alonso stopping him. This season had such promise but the races in the second half of the season have been poor and, if anything, the title looks to be drifting towards a predictable and boring conclusion which nobody wants to see.

Just have to highlight Hulkenberg on another great performance and Perez once again showcasing his inexperience and impatience behind the wheel.

I would say, roll on India but I'm thinking more like, roll on 2013.......

by mystiroakey Sun 14 Oct - 18:20

yep feel the same way. roll on 2013.. this season is winding me up

by lorus59 Mon 15 Oct - 6:33

This season hasn't been so bad. In many previous seasons the championship has been won by now. This one still has life in it even if Vettel is the favourite. Just because the Brits are not going to win the drivers championship there is no need to give up on the season.

by mystiroakey Mon 15 Oct - 8:02

Lorus

Its up to the person at hand as to wether they enjoy the season or not.

I will still be watching all the races- but this one has wound me up no end

by lorus59 Mon 15 Oct - 8:43

If Hamilton had won every race of the season, would you have called that a good season?

by mystiroakey Mon 15 Oct - 8:52

not sure.

why do you ask?

by beninho Mon 15 Oct - 9:06

It gas been a good season, has been unpredictable with different winners. With Alonso outperforming the Ferrari. It's just that red bull have upgraded the car more then the other teams so the end will not be as exciting as the start of the year. 2013 will be a red bull cakewalk.

by CaledonianCraig Mon 15 Oct - 10:55

I see a pattern here. I get the impression that Red Bull tend to concentrate far more on the here and now and continue developing their car right up until the end of the season. Other teams don't seem to do this to such an extent and perhaps start concentrating too soon on next year's car. It would also explain Red Bull's slow start to the season (less time developing the new car perhaps compared to other teams but they catch up).

by Guest Mon 15 Oct - 16:22

Yes. Basically because there is no regulation change next year, Red Bull's improvements and evolution of this year's car is just going to make them even stronger next season. I can quite easily see Vettel being a four time world champion when he joins ferrari in 2014.

Glad to see more and more people including Mark Blundell stating that once again McLaren have completely fouled up this season. I would care about McLaren but seeing as Hamilton is going to Mercedes I hope McLaren's continual poor performance continues next season under the embarrasing duo of Button & Whitmarsh.

by SteveG Mon 15 Oct - 17:30

Does anyone know if Merc have abandoned development on this years car? They've gone from being best of the rest to well and truly moored in midfield. Fast on the straights but abysmal in the corners. Obviously with Hami joining them next season it's a tad concerning.

by GSC Mon 15 Oct - 17:38

The first half of the season was good but it looks like its petering out as the RB is now clearly the best car again and Vettel can follow his formula

by mystiroakey Mon 15 Oct - 21:42

Merc are only looking at 2014 for the main development.. it will however be good to see how good the car is with a top draw driver..

by Belgarion of Riva Tue 16 Oct - 9:47

How Whitmarsh is still in a job is unbelievable. If I divested our best asset, I would lose my job. McLaren have now lost Hamilton, will start paying for mercedes engines and have two drivers who never have outright pace and are overly reliant on strategy.

Next year Redbull will be stronger, Ferrari will be stronger, as will Lotus and Mercedes. Look at the teams above, they all have one exceptional driver and McLaren do not.

Crying shame, they will go the way of Williams

by dyrewolfe Tue 16 Oct - 13:20

Belgarion of Riva wrote:How Whitmarsh is still in a job is unbelievable. If I divested our best asset, I would lose my job. McLaren have now lost Hamilton, will start paying for mercedes engines and have two drivers who never have outright pace and are overly reliant on strategy.

Next year Redbull will be stronger, Ferrari will be stronger, as will Lotus and Mercedes. Look at the teams above, they all have one exceptional driver and McLaren do not.

Crying shame, they will go the way of Williams

Why do persist in blaming Whitmarsh for EVERYTHING that happens at McLaren? Do you know he was personally responsible for the engine deal with Mercedes?

Also, unlike some teams, they don't gear themselves around one driver. If Hamilton didn't want to accept the offer they put on the table, then thats up to him. I don't think any employer in any business should give an employee anything they want, just to hang on to them. As the old football saying goes, no player is bigger than the team.

I happen to think Button and Perez will do a decent job for them, though they will need better cars to deliver another title. Neither Jenson or Lewis has been able to turn McLaren into regular race winners this season, so the problem is obviously with the machinery and the team's pit work (combined with some shockingly bad luck).

As for McLaren going the way of Williams - thats just plain stupid. For starters they've got bigger corporate backing and the budget to bring in top drivers, not to mention one of the best engineering facilities in the world. Rolling Eyes

They've had a tough few years since 2008 but they'll be back sooner rather than later.

by dyrewolfe Tue 16 Oct - 13:49

As for the season so far, the title was realistically a 2-horse race before Korea. The result only confirmed this.

Don't think anyone should be surprised at Webber making way for Vettel. My main worry is that Red Bull are so utterly dominant now that the rest of the season is going to be a procession of victories for them. A depressing prospect after the topsy-turvy, back and forth results of the first 10 races.

Alonso is obviously doing his best but I don't think the Ferrari has the legs to keep the title race going down to the wire. As good as it is to see Massa back on form, he's only going to play wingman to Nando (would like to see him move to Sauber next season).

I can realistically see Ferrari as title contenders next season, but I think Lotus and Force India will still be treading water to an extent. Mercedes will likely be fairly static in terms of performances and results too, if they continue to pin their hopes on developing a car to take advantage of the 2014 regs.

by Guest Tue 16 Oct - 14:22

I have to agree dyrewolf. Alonso knew he was always in trouble deep down and was heavily reliant on McLaren & Red Bull drivers sharing the victories and the complete opposite has unfolded. Newey has made significant strides with the car and the Hamilton/McLaren fiasco has just seem them self implode which has led to Vettel dominating the wins and McLaren basically focusing 'in house' on the future and next season. It's a real shame but I can actually see Vettel just dominating the remaining races and this season fading into a dire one-man procession for the title.

With the same regulations next season, the majority of teams will just be going through the 'evolution' phase with their cars ahead of next season. Sadly, you can't look beyond Newey and Red Bull in progressing and developing their car the furthest, which could see Vettel dominating next season aswell.

Mercedes are the interesting team to follow, not just because they've got Hamilton. They, in my opinion, have surely been working on the 2013 car for a significantly longer time than their rivals and with their constant testing of tyres throughout the season in practice and trying to understand their characteristics, could see them being a surprise package. They will be scrapping the 'Super DRS' system which Ross Brawn has stated 'hindered' their season, therefore a whole new car design is surely on the cards with elements of Red Bull & McLaren being incorporated into it. Evidence to suggest this may be the case was at Singapore when Mercedes copied the McLaren style exhaust to some success. I have faith in Ross Brawn and already disregarding a team with a budget and workforce as strong as Mercedes could be a big mistake............

I also think if Vettel is a four time world champion by the end of 2013 then I do think he will jump ship. He would of achieved everything at Red Bull and the media would be on his tail about him winning in a non-newey car and the challenge of going up against Alonso. Copying Schumacher and joining Ferrari would be a choice he couldnt refuse, especially as the engine regulation change could see Renault disadvantaged considerably going into that next season.

by mystiroakey Tue 16 Oct - 17:14

We could say that Mclarean has self imploded- but Everything LH has done this season has been v good. In my mind one of his best seasons!

BTW no way are mclarean gonna become the next williams!! they are one of the big boys- a man united. What ever people say they will still be fighting it out

by GSC Tue 16 Oct - 17:34

McLaren will still have a competitive car, and JB and Perez can be competitive.

by Guest Tue 16 Oct - 18:24

The thing is if Red Bull is the dominant car from the get-go in Australia 2013, you do worry about how McLaren are going to challenge Vettel in qualifying, which is key in stopping Vettel strolling away to his usual win. Even if McLaren have a competitive car, Kobayashi has out-qualified Perez this year and Button's qualifying is quite frankly appalling. Hamilton's consistancy could always bail out the team in Q3 and I believe is the only driver this season to make to Q3 at every weekend.

by mystiroakey Tue 16 Oct - 19:28

well there is allways the chance that mclarean get the same start as this year but the difference being that button will become no.1 driver and the pit crew get there act together- I would not be suprised with a button win..

The fact is there are clear no.1 drivers in the other top teams- that contrubutes to there success and mclareans downfall

by SteveG Wed 17 Oct - 9:49

mystiroakey wrote:but the difference being that button will become no.1 driver

and there lies the irony.

The very thing Hamilton craved (IMO). And the underperformance resulting from splitting resources between two WDC's no doubt one of the main reasons why he's gone.

by Belgarion of Riva Wed 17 Oct - 10:00

dyrewolfe wrote:
Belgarion of Riva wrote:How Whitmarsh is still in a job is unbelievable. If I divested our best asset, I would lose my job. McLaren have now lost Hamilton, will start paying for mercedes engines and have two drivers who never have outright pace and are overly reliant on strategy.

Next year Redbull will be stronger, Ferrari will be stronger, as will Lotus and Mercedes. Look at the teams above, they all have one exceptional driver and McLaren do not.

Crying shame, they will go the way of Williams

Why do persist in blaming Whitmarsh for EVERYTHING that happens at McLaren? Do you know he was personally responsible for the engine deal with Mercedes?

Also, unlike some teams, they don't gear themselves around one driver. If Hamilton didn't want to accept the offer they put on the table, then thats up to him. I don't think any employer in any business should give an employee anything they want, just to hang on to them. As the old football saying goes, no player is bigger than the team.

I happen to think Button and Perez will do a decent job for them, though they will need better cars to deliver another title. Neither Jenson or Lewis has been able to turn McLaren into regular race winners this season, so the problem is obviously with the machinery and the team's pit work (combined with some shockingly bad luck).

As for McLaren going the way of Williams - thats just plain stupid. For starters they've got bigger corporate backing and the budget to bring in top drivers, not to mention one of the best engineering facilities in the world. They've had a tough few years since 2008 but they'll be back sooner rather than later.

Actually, you need to do research into an issue before dismissing it as stupid. McLaren have lost a variety of sponsors already with the departure of Hamilton. They've also had huge losses with their road car, with less than 25 units sold, which basically leaves their road car division in tatters.

They have also lost a driver who won their last title and has been there or thereabouts since then. He was offered a lower paying deal than JB and to be honest, I respect LH for not walking out there and then.

Hamilton was pushed out of McLaren as a result of Whitmarsh and Button and this is well documented with Ted Kravitz, highlighting this as well.

Going the way of Williams simply meant, they will be a team people remember for providing great cars but will pale into insignificance. Seen it happen before and all the ingredients are there for it to happen again.

Inept pit crew, inept management and average to decent drivers, no one special. They have a driver who can't get results if the car isn't set up to perfection and another one, who manages tyres and hopes to be there or thereabouts at the end of the race with strategy.

I find it amazing that no one can see the disaster that is about to unfold.

McLaren started this season with arguably the fastest car and have been outperformed by their rivals, with one driver essentially carrying the team. Now they've lost that driver and sponsors and acquired a tyre strategist whilst retaining the driver who can't drive around problems.

The writing is on the wall, only those who are blind cannot see it

by liverbnz Wed 17 Oct - 11:38

BOR

How do you know Lewis was offered less than Button? Lewis himself said himself when comparing his new Mercedes deal with the one he was offered from McLaren, that they were 'very, very similar'.

And what sponsers have McLaren lost since Hamilton's announcement? Vodafone have been rumoured to be leaving for a long while so it can't be them.

by Fernando Wed 17 Oct - 12:09

Vodafone has been replaced by Telemex Perez's sponsor so i doubt their struggle for money considering there ran by Carlos Slim

by mystiroakey Wed 17 Oct - 12:41

SteveG wrote:
mystiroakey wrote:but the difference being that button will become no.1 driver
and there lies the irony.

The very thing Hamilton craved (IMO). And the underperformance resulting from splitting resources between two WDC's no doubt one of the main reasons why he's gone.

yep agreed

by Fernando Wed 17 Oct - 13:03

All i shall say is since Button joined the team.

Hamilton - 620 pts
Button 615 pts

Regardless of issues cos lets face it they have both had their fair share of man sausage ups by now there is a 5 point difference hardly deserving of a no.1/no.2 status

by mystiroakey Wed 17 Oct - 13:04

no there is no deserved no1 or no2 IMO. however the problem is the other teams having no.1 drivers. They end up with an advantage IMO

by SteveG Wed 17 Oct - 14:13

Fernando wrote:All i shall say is since Button joined the team.

Hamilton - 620 pts
Button 615 pts

Regardless of issues cos lets face it they have both had their fair share of man sausage ups by now there is a 5 point difference hardly deserving of a no.1/no.2 status

I'd say much of that slim gap is down to equal status which hurt Hamilton more than it did Button (the better driver will always have the most to lose) - any other team would've maximized Hamilton. That and Hamilton's annus horribilis.

by Trebs Wed 17 Oct - 15:12

Teams have different ways of working things though. At the start of the season Ferrari, for example don't have Number 1/2 drivers. They treat them equally until one driver has a clear difference in the standings, due to Felipe's bad starts to the season this has worked in Alonso's favour. It's something I think any team would do if one driver had a realistic chance of winning the title. However, McLaren's problem is that they don't do anything until it's mathematically impossible. If Ferrari were like that then last weekend would have been the first time that they'd have had number one/two drivers for Massa and Alonso. They would have let them race which would have been stupid given their positions in the championship. The two drivers race for the team, Hamilton (especially) and Button race for themselves.

by SteveG Wed 17 Oct - 15:47

treble - I hear what you say but all this no1/2 status extends beyond the action on the track. It includes the direction of car development and distribution of development parts, engineers and pit lane crew. Mclaren probably needed to build a neutral car (chasis) to allow a setup range that accomodated two drivers with completley opposite driving styles - this will slow both drivers down but the faster driver will be hurt most. When Schumi returned to F1 he was slow because the 2010 Merc was an overhang from Button's design (Button said as much at the time)- and suited Ross better. As the car was progressively re-designed around Schumi's driving style he got faster.

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