Owen Farrell....England future?

With England going forward has Owen Farrell got a future? Can he change his negative stance and look to develop some kind of attacking threat? Can he develop his limited distribution? Anyway my thoughts on Mr Farrell...

+ He shows great composure and a steady boot from the tee. His defence is top draw, probably world class.

- What he doesn't have though is an attacking instinct. He butchers moves constantly and has poor distribution, often passing the ball behind the 1st receiver. His first instinct is to kick. We see this for England and Sarries no matter where he finds himself on the pitch. I don't even think his kicking game is particularly strong but this doesn't seem to stop him.

He has little sign of a running game which is something that is pretty hard to develop especially on the International stage. Is this something he can change??

Thoughts??

To be honest I don't know if he can.

The main problem I think Farrell has is that his decision making is not very good. Is it possible to develop decision making or is simply instinctive?

Knowing when to pass,kick etc is very important in unlocking a defence. Chipping over the defence at the right time, spotting the gap etc.

There are certain things I believe he can work on -particularly pace, Mike Brown has shown that with the right training you can become quicker. He'll never be that quick but if he can be a bit nippier it would help.

Distribution is something I think he can work on. In my opinion I think it's all about feeling comfortable with the ball in hand. He also has Hodgson one of the best passers of the ball as a mentor.

Obviously Farrell plays to a very strict gameplan which inhibits any sort of attacking flair. To get better at attacking Farrell needs to play with more freedom, play more instinctively what is in front him.

I think thats a very honest and correct assessment Beshocked

Thank you Geordiefalcon. I do acknowledge the faults of my club's player.

Something that other fans don't seem capable of with their own players which is a real shame.

beshocked wrote:Thank you Geordiefalcon. I do acknowledge the faults of my club's player.

Something that other fans don't seem capable of with their own players which is a real shame.

Oh i always do matey...its just my clubs players dont have any

I got slated last season for pointing out the flaws in Farrell's game after the match against Wales. ~At the time even people like andy Irvine were suggesting he had one foot on the plane to australia with the Lions. That was crazy hyperbole.


BUT while Farrell is not (atm anyway) as good as was suggested then, nor is he as bad as is suggested now. In the same way that Rob Andrew (who actually was originally an attacking FH) was very different in style to stuart Barnes - Farrell is very different to Freddie Burns. Depending on the structure of the England team and how they choose to play you then choose your out half accordingly.

The biggest problem, for me, is that Farrell is trying to improve his game within a very negative Sarries structure. It may be heresy to suggest - but for the sake of his future, he may actually be better getting loaned out to someone like Bedford (who have a good side but no real ambitions to make the AP) and get asked to play right up on the gain line. Just by doing this his game would come on leaps and bounds.


If we ignore the early season issues (when he was struggling with a thigh injury which must have affected his kicking) Farrell has shown himself to be a consistently good kicker in pressure situations. This is still an area of weakness for both Burns and Ford.

Comparing these 3, and one of them will probably be the future, they all have strengths and they all have real weaknesses. Burns is probably the most rounded atm - but then as he is 3 years older than Ford (with Farrell half way between the two) you would expect that.

hopefully at least one of these 3 will really kick on, for the sake of England I do not care which.

LondonTiger it's fine to criticise a player but you have to credit a player too which you have done here.

Remember the context - the Wales' game was Farrell's first start at 10 in the 6 nations against the form side in the competition. I think what was impressive about Farrell was he wasn't flustered or overawed by the occasion and responsibility.

Sure he could have done more but as a first start for England at 10 he was pretty good IMO. He certainly was better than Priestland too.

England weren't that far off winning the game, at least drawing it anyway.

SA tour exposed Farrell's flaws but he shouldn't just be thrown on the scrap heap.

It wasn't a 9/10 performance that some papers gave. It was a good 7/10 performance which frankly based on his age and experience was very impressive.

I am sure it is not just in England (though within the UK and Ireland it is more prominent because we have a bigger population therefore more media coverage) but our young players do get over-hyped.

Ford, Farrell & Cipriani have all been the victims of this (and poor old Courney Lawes was hailed as the best in the world after one club match at home to Munster). As soon as it happens it is natural for other people to knock and mock. After all plenty of people were ripping into George Ford at the end of last season - including fans of a certain Herts based club All 3 of these 10s are talented players. none are as good as the hype, bit nor are they as bad as the mockers suggest.

Owen Farrell has the basic building blocks in place to be a dam good international 10. That there is some improvement needed is only to be expected.

Well said London Tiger.

The thing is practically how do you think Farrell can improve his flaws?

How do you think he can for example improve his decision making, distribution, speed etc?

With speed he could do what Mike Brown did and hire Margot Wells but would it necessarily work?

Obviously it's not that simple but how did Mike Brown do it?

Trust me, when England need to close a game out and defend a lead for the last 15-20 minutes of a test match, Farrell will be worth his weight in gold, also if you are playing a side that you know you are not going to get any change out of, then Farrell's goal kicking will be invaluable, he might not set the world alight when you need to chase a game, but that is what you Cipriani's and Preistlands of this world are for, Farrell to me is a lot like Dan Bigggar where he does all the basics to a very high level, just do not expect fireworks from them, would I like Farrell in my side ? Yes. Would I like him to be Welsh ? Yes. When I ask myself those type of questions and get a positive answer then for me there is no doubting the players ability, I think at the moment it is a two horse race for the England no. 10 Jersey and that is between Flood and Farrell, but who ever gets it the worst for Farrell will be second and he will always be either on the pitch or on the bench, as his abilities are to invaluable to any side.

Nice to see a neutral's perspective LordDowlais.

The problem with us rugby fans is that we are fussy. We are always looking for the next superstar. If only Dan Carter was English sigh.

Right now I guess Flood should be the first choice 10, he is very well rounded and experienced.

Then it's Burns and Farrel. I'd go with Burns for the AI's as at the moment he seems to have got rid of any of the faults to his game that we'd usually level at him and so deserves a run out.

Farrel should be in the EPS, he isn't going to learn more about attacking rugby at Saracens but will hopefully pick up plenty from the others in the Eng training camp. I'd then like to see him in the Saxons in the 6N's so he can try out his attacking skills in a less pressured environment.

Farrel is a very good defender and a marksman from the tee, which is always usefull but he just needs a chance to play attacking rugby.

Young Farrell has all the core mental building blocks to be an excellent international player. What he lacks is a) attacking awareness and b) the ability to execute difficult skills under severe pressure.

To my mind he needs to be spending most of his waking hours with Charlie Hodgson. There's no one better at attacking the line with vision and the ability to throw exceptional passes right in front of the man.

More importantly he needs to be able to put these into practice. I have always been critical of Sarries style, but Charlie manages to show what he's about and Farrell should adopt the same attitude. Only the ability to practice what he's learning will bring Owen on.

What I don't buy is the idea that you pick a team to how you want to play and then pick some sort of stilted FH to kick the leather off the thing.

To be the best in the world you need to be inventive and at times expansive. It's not about saying well if we kick everything and defend superbly that will be enough. It's not. Neither is it right to suggest that running everything from your goal-line is the answer.

What we need is a team that's confident and adaptable. That requires strong leaders on the pitch and halfbacks with the ability to play when it's likely to be on and control when it's not.

We should be asking more from players like Farrell, not just accepting that he's limited and that's that.

I think one of the crucial things with Owen (and this was from watching him in SA) was his decision making as Beschocked reffered to above.

He seems in his safety zone using the boot...and this is something he needs to come out of. He needs to make the decisions when to kick nad when to run.

Some of his decisions to kick in SA were maddening when we had players outside him...but this is how you build experience.
Hopefully he will have taken those lessons on board.

Agree completely with what you're saying Chjw131 and LordD.

Farrell is a very promising talent, and his ability to remain cool-headed makes him an ideal bench player to bring on a close out a game. He's obviously got talent, but he just needs to persevere with certain aspects of his attacking game. Like Chjw131 said, he should be picking Hodgson's brain every day of the week.

I personally think he's more of a 12.

A future midfield of 10.Ford 12.Farrell 13.Tuilagi could be quite tasty

He played 12 at U20 for England with George Ford taking the FH spot.

And was really poor.

I think a 12 needs a good running personally and Farrell doesn't really have that in his locker.

He played a couple of games at 12 in the 2011 JWC having just guided Saracens to the title playing at 10 all season. I'm not surprised he was a bit jaded and didn't play amazingly well.

He needs to kick on, but as someone earlier has pointed out, he's neither as good as some were claiming when he broke into the England team, nor as poor as some are claiming now.

I also agree with whoever it is that has said that in order to move his game on he may need to move away from Saracens to a team that play a different style of rugby.

Ozzy3213 wrote:He played a couple of games at 12 in the 2011 JWC having just guided Saracens to the title playing at 10 all season. I'm not surprised he was a bit jaded and didn't play amazingly well.

He needs to kick on, but as someone earlier has pointed out, he's neither as good as some were claiming when he broke into the England team, nor as poor as some are claiming now.

I also agree with whoever it is that has said that in order to move his game on he may need to move away from Saracens to a team that play a different style of rugby.

I think moving to somewhere like Quins or Glaws would certainly help him, but his main problem will be that he's unlikely to be starting many games there and he needs consistent game time to develop. Yes Sarries have a frustrating approach most of the time, but we do see some sparks from Charlie Hodgson in attack and there's no reason Farrell can't show that by staying put.

We see some spark from Hodgson in attack because that is his natural game, but it is clear to see that he is far more regimented at Saracens than he ever was at Sale. Farrell hasn't developed that natural attacking instinct and as a result isn't able to step outside fo the game plan and find his own way.

My concern with him at Saracens is that he is entrenched in doing things one way. Quins would be great for him. Evans has publicly said that he wants to play less games, which would see Farrell if he went there getting more game time. He would also be learning from one of the best attacking 10's in the world, and within a structure which wants to play ball in hand attacking rugby.

Sadly, I think there is more chance of me winning the lottery this weekend than there is of Farrell leaving Saracens in the near future.

I would love him at Quins.

Oddly I can see him doing really well with us, he can kick and tackle which are usually the two biggest issues for young 10's. If anyone can get him attacking with that ball then it's Connor and Nev.

He would be an interesting challenge for the coaches.

For all of you wanting Owen Farrell to become an attacking flyhalf I have this to say to you, WHY ? Owen Farrell will never be one of those, why don't you all want him to be world class fly half at what he does ? It never held Ronan O'Gara back, look what he achieved for club and country, I could go one better and mention Johnny Wilkinson, he has won a world cup whilst never being a twinkle toed, line breaking, side stepping, spur of the moment player, if Owen Farrell concentrates on what he is already very good at then he will turn those skills into world class skills, why wish for something when you have something else already ? I bet all the English fans would love to have Johnny Wilko at his prime now, and this is what you have in the making with Owen Farrell, if you want a different type of flyhalf then by all means but turn a ready made rough diamond like Burns into your attacking flyhalf and have two options, then you need to decide what you want, a world class steady eddie, Owen Farrell, or a world class JPR, Burns. Look I do not like comparing players to past player but I am just giving examples Owen Farrell will never be the knife through butter player you all crave, but he could win you a world cup.

LD

As a young player, Wilkinson possessed an attacking threat ball in hand, he was not just a kicking 10 with a demon defence and dead eye off the tee. As he evolved as a player he cut down on attacking the gainline with the ball in hand and became more a controlling 10, but his decision making was sound and certainly better than Farrell's is now.

Likewise O'Gara is a limited player who did what he did excellently, but again Farrell is not at the same level in terms of decision making and picking the right options.

Also, the game has moved on, a 10 needs to be more rounded now if you want to achieve at the very highest level and be labelled truly world class. At present Farrell is nowhere near that, and in order to get anywhere near it he will need to add an attacking threat to his game.

I have heard people rave about the JW pass too - he might have needed the odd prod to get things goings but he could - he was always much more than just a kicker.

Yeah i can vouch that Johnny was far more than just a controlling player when he was younger...he could make very good breaks...indeed he has for England aswell...he just seemed to curb that and become a more controlling type player.

Back to Farrell...
Lord Dowlais, its not a case we want him to "become an attacking" fly half.
We want him to remain the cool, assured controlling type character he is...but we just want him to work on his decision making so he can kick off attacks when they are open. Something at the moment he has not done...preferring to rely on his boot.

Once/IF he can do that...he will be a very strong alround player...who will be very good for England.

The typical England 10, knows only one thing. Kick the ball. Good luck with the backline.

The best thing for Owen Farrell, would be for Saracens to use him as Charlie Hodgsons understudy. Saracens look a lot more structured and far more dangerous with Hodgson at 10. With Farrell at the helm, they look lacklustre, one dimensional and unstructured.

Hodgson can help to develop Farrells passing skills, vision, game management, the right time to go yourself and the right time to kick. Until his attacking game has significantly improved I'm afraid young Owen should be in the Saxons at best.

Flood and Burns are the form fly halves in the premiership at the moment and deserve to be in the EPS.