Interesting Twitter Conversation About Some Of Murray's On Court Behaviour

by hawkeye Sat Oct 13, 2012 9:12 am

Found this conversation on Neil Harman's (The world famous (cough) Times tennis journalist) twitter account. Neil was upset that the commentators were aplogising for Murray's offensive language. He saw nothing wrong with it and wasn't offended. But what I find interesting is that a pro player (Sergiy Stakovsky) felt annoyed enough to argue with Harman about it.

Harman
Why do Sky have to keep apologising when Murray lets a swear word slip? Those offended can just change channels

Lief Shiras
Ofcom requires broadcasters acknowledge offensive language and apologize for it. Spitting at lines, though offensive, ok

Sergiy Stakovsky
Neil you are saying that his behavior is ok?

Harman
Sometimes he's too over the top for my liking but equally it's my decision to watch or not. I am not offended

Sergiy Stakovsky
if Rooney is screaming f...k you into camera and your children are watching is it still ok?))

Haman
It is not what I want to hear but I don't need people to apologise on my behalf for hearing it. That is up to the player

Sergiy Stakovsky
should the player be penalized ?)

Nola
Ofcom rules strict on language. Plus you'd be shocked to learn that hundreds call in to complain, even when they apologise

https://twitter.com/neilharmantimes

Interesting to see a player confronting a British journalist about Murray's on court behaviour and questioning whether he should be penalised. Hamans response is that he personally doesn't mind. Ha ha! Of course Murray should be allowed to do anything he wants so long as he British media approve.

by ryan86 Sat Oct 13, 2012 10:09 am

As someone not really offended by anything, I don't really care, but I guess they have to cover themselves against those that do.

I don't think though we should dilute sport merely to get it onto TV though.

by bogbrush Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:03 am

The rules are clear, and top players have responsibility. I wouldn't expect better of Rooney, but Murray lets himself down with this.

Harman is just a sycophant.

by Calder106 Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:12 am

Why just top players ? I'll admit I don't like to see Murray swear on court and would like him to stop it. It doesn't really offend me but could do others. However he is far from the only player who does it and most of the players can do it in a language most of us are not conversant with. Note the retweet by Harman in the twitter conversation. The OP also misses out the bit in the Twitter conversation about Stepanek spitting on the line. I suspect if that had been Murray we would have had a article on that.

by Haddie-nuff Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:14 am

Ive never been over the moon about Andy´s on court antics .. however this year under the guidance and coaching of Lendl I thought he was much improved.
Swearing I agree is hardly the "right" thing to do but with respect why pick on Andy I daresay its because most people watching UNDERSTAND what he is saying. Would anyone know if Djokovic, Federer even dare I say Nadal swear..NO probably not because they probably wouldn´t know what a four letter word was either in Serbian, any one of the four languages Roger speaks, or Spanish. I have no doubt in my mind that there are many swear words that will continue to be uttered on court in more languages than you can count and go without notice or comment.

by bogbrush Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:55 am

But what matters is what people hear. Kids, and stuff. This really isn't a sport for that to be happening.

I repeat, Harman has no objectivity. What effect that has on his 'journalism' we can imagine.

by Haddie-nuff Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:05 pm

I agree and I do not excuse him AT ALL.. but I dont think racquet smashing should be happening either (and once upon a time a player was penalised for racquet abuse). There are a lot of examples of on court behaviour (as we all know and which have been discussed) that need tidying up a bit .. standards are slipping !!!! Erm

:

by Calder106 Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:14 pm

As I said previously I don't condone it but lets not put it all on one player. Many have been known to swear on court.

As for Neil Harman look like he has just joined the list of bad journalists/commentators. That will upset the OP who frequently tells us he is one of the most objective.

by Danny_1982 Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:27 pm

Murray's is highlighted in the UK because he says it in English. My fiancé speaks a number of languages and the kind of thing Murray says is nothing compared to what a few of the Spanish and the South Americans say.

Nadal is not too bad before anyone jumps on that bandwagon, but Verdasco is a particularly bad one.

It's not great, but some perspective is needed. Murray muttering the F word to himself is nowhere near as bad as what some others say, but its not in English.

As with most things, it's either all ok or none of it is ok.

by Haddie-nuff Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:32 pm

Well it was a point Ive already mentioned however you do not surprise me one IOTA about Verdasco (he has the temper to boot) I think Felii Lopez isnt squeeky clean either.

But this article is interesting.. maybe a few more sessions would help

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/murray-shrink-made-grand-slam-champ-094828238.html

by Danny_1982 Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:45 pm

Put it this way, if Murray had said what Verdasco or Delpo have said to their opponents then I think we'd have a hundred HE articles over it.

Not just expletives, but insults aimed at the opponent and their opponents mother. And this happens often.

by bogbrush Sat Oct 13, 2012 1:02 pm

They are a$$holes.

by Danny_1982 Sat Oct 13, 2012 1:05 pm

I'm offended by that BB. I demand an apology. Wink

by carrieg4 Sat Oct 13, 2012 1:22 pm

Swearing on court is never a good thing but, as has already been said, is by no means unique to any one player. Like Danny said, it is all ok or none of it is ok.

Haddie, I read that article. I fear it may be some time before Mr. Murray attains zen status Whistle

by Haddie-nuff Sat Oct 13, 2012 1:38 pm

carrieg4 wrote:Swearing on court is never a good thing but, as has already been said, is by no means unique to any one player. Like Danny said, it is all ok or none of it is ok.

Haddie, I read that article. I fear it may be some time before Mr. Murray attains zen status

Yes C4 I think you may well have point Erm

by bogbrush Sat Oct 13, 2012 1:49 pm

Danny_1982 wrote:I'm offended by that BB. I demand an apology.

I covered my keyboard as I typed it. Wink

by **JuliusHMarx** Sat Oct 13, 2012 2:13 pm

I remember watching an outside court match at Wimby many years ago - the courts where there are just a few benches for spectators. A fair bit of profanity from both players, muttered under their breath so the umpire couldn't hear. The fans, being closer to the player, could hear quite clearly. I've always assumed that's the norm, but I don't know for sure.

by Josiah Maiestas Sat Oct 13, 2012 2:17 pm

British media acts like gangsters.

Not the least bit surprised with Harman being 'unoffended'.

by djlovesyou Sat Oct 13, 2012 3:31 pm

Nobody is actually offended by it though. Some sad cases just like an excuse to act offended.

I'm not too sure what sort of person would actually take the time to make a complaint about a tennis player swearing on court, but I certainly wouldn't like to have to spend any time with them.

by Haddie-nuff Sat Oct 13, 2012 3:45 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:I remember watching an outside court match at Wimby many years ago - the courts where there are just a few benches for spectators. A fair bit of profanity from both players, muttered under their breath so the umpire couldn't hear. The fans, being closer to the player, could hear quite clearly. I've always assumed that's the norm, but I don't know for sure.

I dont think its anything new if my memory serves me correctly Jimmy Connors could have competed with the best of them especially if he was playing Johnny Mac censored

by Guest Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:08 pm

Seriously who gives a sh!t

by **JuliusHMarx** Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:08 pm

Haddie-nuff wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:I remember watching an outside court match at Wimby many years ago - the courts where there are just a few benches for spectators. A fair bit of profanity from both players, muttered under their breath so the umpire couldn't hear. The fans, being closer to the player, could hear quite clearly. I've always assumed that's the norm, but I don't know for sure.

I dont think its anything new if my memory serves me correctly Jimmy Connors could have competed with the best of them especially if he was playing Johnny Mac

True, but this was an outside court - can't even remember who it was. Maybe David Wheaton or someone like that.

by bogbrush Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:22 pm

legendkillarV2 wrote:Seriously who gives a sh!t

I dunno, someone with their young kids with them? Or somebody who thought the players could be better?

by Guest Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:23 pm

bogbrush wrote:
legendkillarV2 wrote:Seriously who gives a sh!t
I dunno, someone with their young kids with them? Or somebody who thought the players could be better?

Kids will hear it in the playground or the evil that is TV. Not like they will be forever immune from it.

by Haddie-nuff Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:31 pm

The F.... word has become standard conversation in any US made film today.
Shameful to say but I don´t think the kids even notice it anymore.
My son picked that little gem up when he was in his first year in Primary School 40 years ago. Rolling Eyes

by Josiah Maiestas Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:40 pm

Haddie-nuff wrote:The F.... word has become standard conversation in any US made film today.
Shameful to say but I don´t think the kids even notice it anymore.
My son picked that little gem up when he was in his first year in Primary School 40 years ago.

I hope you refused to make him supper. I wouldn't mind if Murray kept his voice down when he was angry, but he only does it now so the other player can hear and take
his focus away.

by bogbrush Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:44 pm

legendkillarV2 wrote:
bogbrush wrote:
legendkillarV2 wrote:Seriously who gives a sh!t
I dunno, someone with their young kids with them? Or somebody who thought the players could be better?

Kids will hear it in the playground or the evil that is TV. Not like they will be forever immune from it.

Oh ok, let's bring it on then.

Shall we draw the line at f*ck, or perhaps throw in c*nt or tw@t? Maybe combinations? And obviously let's not mumble them, shout them out with pride!
I mean, they're in films aren't they? And kids will hear them in the playground.

by Haddie-nuff Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:49 pm

Its not new though JM albeit I do not condone it.. Jimmy Connors was one of the most controversial players on court his behaviour was disgraceful at times.... abusive to his oponent, umpires and even the crowd when they heckled him. The overall behaviour on court has over the years become much better.. but Andy is very vocal I will agree

by mthierry Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:50 pm

Don't see the point in censoring or apologising for what kids find a way to hear once they can talk and communicate. Whether you use the F or S word instead of any accepted exclamation, I don't see the difference personally. They're just meaningless rules we have to conform to for no substantive reason.

by Haddie-nuff Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:53 pm

I take your point BB and I agree that it should not be allowed to continue its not something I particularly want to hear either, let alone kids, but as I mentioned before I think there are various areas that need to be addressed and let all nationalities take note that profanity in what ever language should not be allowed to continue. Just because most kids wouldn´t understand it doesn´t excuse it .

by bogbrush Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:54 pm

mthierry wrote:Don't see the point in censoring or apologising for what kids find a way to hear once they can talk and communicate. Whether you use the F or S word instead of any accepted exclamation, I don't see the difference personally. They're just meaningless rules we have to conform to for no substantive reason.

Really it's just about consideration for another's feelings. Isn't that silly?

by monty junior Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:21 pm

The worst i usually see is Haas, he usually moans and swears even after guys hitting rocket serves in to the corner. Nalbandian is an absolute clown with it to, both considerably worse than Murray.

by djlovesyou Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:42 pm

Danny_1982 wrote:Murray's is highlighted in the UK because he says it in English. My fiancé speaks a number of languages and the kind of thing Murray says is nothing compared to what a few of the Spanish and the South Americans say.

Nadal is not too bad before anyone jumps on that bandwagon, but Verdasco is a particularly bad one.

When Murray does it, it's insolent, unpleasant and should be stopped immediately. When Spanish and South American players do it, it's described as Latin fire and passion and people say that it's something that is lacking in British sport.

by lydian Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:00 pm

Yes but swearing in movies is usually restricted to 15+ or 18+ audiences.
Murray is doing it front of children watching, to whom at this level they're a role model to, and parents are unable to filter the language. Some people might be happy their 7-10 year olds see swearing on live TV, I'm not. And I don't care if they hear it in the playground...I don't want it coming down the TV for a sports event. If we want to break down all barriers for what is acceptable in watching live performances to a universal audience then for me it's the thin end of the wedge. Call me old fashioned but I don't give a monkeys, I expect better from sports people who know they're being watched by millions of kids.

by Calder106 Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:12 pm

Yes fine I've said previously that I think Murray is wrong to do it but once again he is the only one you target. There are lots of others who do it as others posters have pointed out. So why not be more general in your comment.

by bogbrush Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:12 pm

djlovesyou wrote:
Danny_1982 wrote:Murray's is highlighted in the UK because he says it in English. My fiancé speaks a number of languages and the kind of thing Murray says is nothing compared to what a few of the Spanish and the South Americans say.

Nadal is not too bad before anyone jumps on that bandwagon, but Verdasco is a particularly bad one.

When Murray does it, it's insolent, unpleasant and should be stopped immediately. When Spanish and South American players do it, it's described as Latin fire and passion and people say that it's something that is lacking in British sport.

Really? I have never heard that said in the context you describe.

by Josiah Maiestas Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:38 pm

bogbrush wrote:
djlovesyou wrote:
Danny_1982 wrote:Murray's is highlighted in the UK because he says it in English. My fiancé speaks a number of languages and the kind of thing Murray says is nothing compared to what a few of the Spanish and the South Americans say.

Nadal is not too bad before anyone jumps on that bandwagon, but Verdasco is a particularly bad one.

When Murray does it, it's insolent, unpleasant and should be stopped immediately. When Spanish and South American players do it, it's described as Latin fire and passion and people say that it's something that is lacking in British sport.
Really? I have never heard that said in the context you describe.

Hahahaha, difference being that Nalbandian/Verdasco don't do this after EVERY point lost, it's probably 2 or 3 times in a set. Of course if these guys were doing it after every lost point, like Murray, then they would be receiving just as bad criticism as Murray, probably even worse. We should make a compilation of Murray's swearing compared to latino players, Murray will have double the swearing.

by time please Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:39 pm

lydian wrote:Yes but swearing in movies is usually restricted to 15+ or 18+ audiences.
Murray is doing it front of children watching, to whom at this level they're a role model to, and parents are unable to filter the language. Some people might be happy their 7-10 year olds see swearing on live TV, I'm not. And I don't care if they hear it in the playground...I don't want it coming down the TV for a sports event. If we want to break down all barriers for what is acceptable in watching live performances to a universal audience then for me it's the thin end of the wedge. Call me old fashioned but I don't give a monkeys, I expect better from sports people who know they're being watched by millions of kids.

With privilege comes responsibility imo!

It's not so much the actual word that offends me - though I would be less sanguine if my children were younger - but it irritates me beyond belief to see Andy Murray descending into self flagellation on court again. He is very lucky to have the talent (albeit he works extremely hard)to earn an amazing living doing something he, presumably, loves - grow up ffs!

by Calder106 Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:45 pm

So it's ok for you to allude to needless swear words while trying to make a point. Sort of dilutes your point.

by Josiah Maiestas Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:52 pm

Calder106 wrote:So it's ok for you to allude to needless swear words while trying to make a point. Sort of dilutes your point.

Well I predict Murray would swear in every single post if he was on here.

by bogbrush Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:56 pm

Calder106 wrote:So it's ok for you to allude to needless swear words while trying to make a point. Sort of dilutes your point.

Who're you talking to?

by Calder106 Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:02 pm

bogbrush wrote:
Calder106 wrote:So it's ok for you to allude to needless swear words while trying to make a point. Sort of dilutes your point.
Who're you talking to?

It was actually replying to Time Please.

by sportslover Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:11 pm

At least Murray hasn't been fined for doing it!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/usopen/6203602/US-Open-2009-Roger-Federer-fined-900-for-swearing-in-final-defeat.html

A bad example surely by the goat!!

by CaledonianCraig Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:16 pm

Yes 'positively shocking' (as James Bond once said) that was sports lover.

In other words all players swear so why is this just about Murray?

by User 774433 Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:22 pm

sportslover wrote:At least Murray hasn't been fined for doing it!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/usopen/6203602/US-Open-2009-Roger-Federer-fined-900-for-swearing-in-final-defeat.html

A bad example surely by the goat!!

Good to see you BOO Smile

Andy's done really well this year hasn't he, great to see!

I'm Amritia btw Smile

by sportslover Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:37 pm

Hi IMBL yes Andy is doing not to bad, shame about Rafa but hope he returns soon.

Nice to see this forum has settled down, shame there is no Tenez or Nitb but at least you have JM who is always worth a laugh, a bit like the Chinese spectators watching today's matches, full of enthusiasm but knows very little about tennis.

by User 774433 Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:42 pm

sportslover wrote:Hi IMBL yes Andy is doing not to bad, shame about Rafa but hope he returns soon.

Nice to see this forum has settled down, shame there is no Tenez or Nitb but at least you have JM who is always worth a laugh, a bit like the Chinese spectators watching today's matches, full of enthusiasm but knows very little about tennis.

lol JM is a well known tennis-connoisseur! Smile

by Haddie-nuff Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:43 pm

HI BOO

long time no see glad to see you back

by sportslover Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:54 pm

Hi H-n - I don't post much but I do look at this forum from time to time.

As I said shame about Rafa but hopefully he will be back soon and be ready for 2013.

Are you still in Spain or have you moved to Canada?

by time please Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:59 pm

Calder106 wrote:So it's ok for you to allude to needless swear words while trying to make a point. Sort of dilutes your point.

Fair point calder - I just assume (wrongly maybe) that only adults post on this board but of course that may not be so?

It was only a knee jerk, first reaction type of comment from me to a thread anyway - just as if I was talking in a pub so it's probably clumsy and could be intepreted as hypocritical I do see.

I reiterate that it is not the word, it is the way it is used in any case and I stick to my point about privilege and responsibility - it's just my opinion anyway though I do understand you may disagree Very Happy

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