Wales starting XV?

It's great that Wales won the Grandslam with their 10 dipping in an out of form, but we really need to start picking on form again.

The Ospreys contingent has wained in recent times, but a lot of them have hit some good form in the past month.

There will always be players who who are too skillful or too important to leave out even if they are not in their best club form, but I would like to see a bit more enterprise when it comes to selection.

I think the strongest Wales team at the moment would be.

15. Leigh Halfpenny
14. Alex Cuthbert
13. Jon Davies
12. Jamie Roberts
11. George North
10. Dan Biggar
9. Mike Phillips

8. Toby Faletau
7. Justin Tipuric
6. Sam Warburton
5. Alun-wyn Jones (C)
4. Ryan Jones
3. Adam Jones
2. Richard Hibbard
1. Gethin Jenkins

16. Paul James
17. Matthew Rees
18. Bradley Davies
19. Aaron Shingler

20. Rhys Webb
21. James Hook
22. Ashley Beck

Couple of changes I think for me....

Biggar needs to show he can do it vs a minnow team for Wales before he's first choice 10, a game against Samoa would be ideal. Priestland keeps the jersey for me, as we have Halfpenny to kick.

For me:

6 Jones (Shingler vs Samoa)
7 Warburton
8 Faletau

Warbs I think brings a lot more to the side than people give him credit for, and I don't think Alun Wyn is outstanding atm, certainly not enough for captain

Have you seen all these players play yet this year?

Mike Phillips, James Hook, Gethin Jenkins all play in France arE they your best players? Or are they the most reliable players that Wales have at this moment.

Is Biggar your best 10? what happend to Priestland? is he injured, or just out of form.

I still think it is too early for any one to try and name their countrys squad for the Ais/6ns.

I dont think Warburton is our best option at 6 now Lydiate is out, if hes not considered good enough to play 7 at the moment then how can he be good enough to play out of position.

I would go for

Shingler
Faletau
Warburton

but suspect it will be

R Jones
Faletau
Warburton

Ian Evans is our best 2nd row so has to play, this is what my side would be for the NZ and Australia game but I would be very surprised if it was

Halfpenny
North
Davies
Roberts
Cuthbert

Biggar
Phillips

Shingler
Faletau
Warburton
Evans
Charteris
A Jones
Owen
James


Jenkins, Rees, R Jones, AWJ
Webb, Priestland Beck or S Williams

To Biggar or not to Biggar that is the question...

granted he is on form but we have been here before, he never steps up and translates that club form to the highest level

I feel we have to go with what we know in key areas

The backs pretty much pick themselves but i go with Priestland on this occassion;

1/2
Cuthbert
Roberts
JD2
North
Priest
Philipps

As for the pack I prefer Owen but feel Hibberd will get a chance (last chance)

Gethin was off form for me in the summer but agagin feel we need him there

With no Lydiate the tendency is to upset the backrow to play Tipuric but if he wasn't going to get picked anyway you can't do it because lydiate is out...I want to see him play as much as the next man so for me the pressure stays on Warbs .

Now is the time to blood Shingler properly although I think Ryan will slot into 6; either way both are in my 22

Evans and AWJ for me though i want to see Charters in place of AWJ as his work rate is phenomenal

Geth
Hibbard
Jones
Ianto
AWJ
Ryan
Sam
Faletau

mowgli,

I agree about Biggar and have never really been convinced and he's never really doen it in the Red of Wales but in his defence has he ever really started at 10 behind a first choice pack?

From what I can remember he's always played in the so called lesser games

Fair point but now is not the time for experimentation....okay maybe bring him on for 30 if arg/samoa are well beaten butwe have to persist with Priest for his flat game and distribution and ignore his tendency to go on solitary forays and get turned over - he is an incentive to pass as caught in possession my gran could do better....but I still rate the guy and as you say this autumn is all about the go forward up front...welsh backs have stood up repeatedly tokeep us in games and no i want to see a disciplined (Hibberd) ferocious destructive pack start to hammer oppositions and master the setpiece...i think that is the secret to kicking on that is missing

The Ospreys contingent has wained in recent times, but a lot of them have hit some good form in the past month.

Well you could say the same about Priestlands form. He would be my choice to start at fly-half with Dan Biggar on the bench. AWJ shouldn't start, he's playing to powder puff to start against the big boys from the SH. Hopefully Charteris is on form. Scrum half is a tricky choice, I think it's probably Phillips but Webb won't be on the bench on current form. Ryan Jones at 6 with Shingler on the bench.

10. Henson

Biggar has actually looked pretty good for the Ospreys this season, still firmly in control of the 10 shirt despite Morgans best efforts.

He had a solid game vs Treviso as well, we will have to wait and see whether Priestland, newcomers Rhys Patchell, Steffan Jones and Tovey can up their game.

No idea how Hook and Steven Shingler have been playing.

Couple of tweaks in the forwards. Shift Ryan Jones to blindside and bring in Ian Evans. You can talk about Warbs at 8 (injury permitting) but not at 6 imo, not with Jones being the stalwart behind Lydiate and Shingler coming along very promisingly. Still a close call between Warbs and Tipuric at openside but Tips may be edging ahead due to the sheer regularity Sam The Man picks up a bang or dislocates something. One of the worst curses to have, skill and talent tempered by injury after injury!

Knowsit17 wrote:Couple of tweaks in the forwards. Shift Ryan Jones to blindside and bring in Ian Evans. You can talk about Warbs at 8 (injury permitting) but not at 6 imo, not with Jones being the stalwart behind Lydiate and Shingler coming along very promisingly. Still a close call between Warbs and Tipuric at openside but Tips may be edging ahead due to the sheer regularity Sam The Man picks up a bang or dislocates something. One of the worst curses to have, skill and talent tempered by injury after injury!

Thats what really annoys me about Sam Warburton, hes clearly a very gifted player, but it seems his body just cant withstand the punishment he puts it through.

I don't know what conclusions to draw on Sam, are there even any conclusions to draw when the problem is a horrific injury record? You might slate the individual for not treating his body with enough respect but Warbs has always come across as a down-to-earth guy so I'd be surprised if that's it. He's probably more frustrated than we are. One might suspect the conditioning and fitness coaching at the Blues or Wales but I doubt anyone is in a position to say anything's for certain. The more likely answer is just rotten luck imo, the fact that in the past it was the calf and this time an unrelated finger would appear to support that. Worrying but sadly not something you can argue with.

As you say though, its just a shame that he cant string together many consecutive games to build on, he does give it his all when he plays though and he stands out when he does play more often than not so I don't think his injuries have been affecting his confidence yet.

Having just lost to the premiership's lame ducks nobody from the Blues should be anywhere near the Welsh squad.

mowgli wrote:Having just lost to the premiership's lame ducks nobody from the Blues should be anywhere near the Welsh squad.

Only so much you can do when Sweeney, Lloyd Williams and Tom James decide to do ridiculous things

15. Leigh Halfpenny
14. Alex Cuthbert
13. Jon Davies
12. Jamie Roberts
11. George North
10. Rhys Priestland
9. Mike Phillips

8. Toby Faletau
7. Warburton (C)
6. Ryan Jones
5. Alun-wyn Jones
4. Ian Evans
3. Adam Jones
2. Richard Hibbard
1. Gethin Jenkins

16. Paul James
17. Matt Rees
18. Luke Charteris
19. Aaron Shingler

20. Tavis Knoyle
21. James Hook
22. Ashley Beck

RubyGuby wrote:15. Leigh Halfpenny
14. Alex Cuthbert
13. Jon Davies
12. Jamie Roberts
11. George North
10. Rhys Priestland
9. Mike Phillips

8. Toby Faletau
7. Warburton (C)
6. Ryan Jones
5. Alun-wyn Jones
4. Ian Evans
3. Adam Jones
2. Richard Hibbard
1. Gethin Jenkins

16. Paul James
17. Matt Rees
18. Luke Charteris
19. Aaron Shingler

20. Tavis Knoyle
21. James Hook
22. Ashley Beck

That's the team...though all Blues players should have to change separately and not look anyone else in the eye

Mowgli - Having just run in 3 trys Cuthbert can look anyone in the eye, 1/2p alike and Warburon must have known what was coming and used his loaf - That will be the team however. Tulip has his work cut out with the Blues

I don't care if Cuthbert scored 6, they lost to Sale Ruby....nobody else has managed to do that this season. Even London Welsh beat them.

I know where you're coming from Mowgli it was shambolic against a poor Sale side.

I wouldnt have warbs anywhere near the lineup if form is considered, he looks poor still!!!!

If we are talking AI's I'd go with...

Jones
Hibbard
Gill
AWJ
Davies
Tipuric
Shinglar
Falatau
Roberts
RP
North
Roberts
Davies
Cuthbert
1/2p

James
Owens
R.Jones
Davies
Biggar
Beck
Williams

Putting your favourite scrum half on the bench is it bluesman?

Who Gareth Davies Morg??? Hardly my favourite, but I think he offers much more to my selected team than Knoyle, Williams, or Webb!!!

My Williams on the bench mate is Liam!

On what basis do you pick Falatau at 8, he was rubbish in Aust and he has been poor this season, against a poor Wasps team he dropped the ball twice in perfect conditions, lost control at the back of scrums, he is back to where he was 18months ago. The Wasps crowd cheered when he managed to catch the ball. We have a number of 6's but short of a quality 8 hence R Jones should play 8, tips at 7 and Shingler at 6.

We must persist with Faletau until another 8 becomes apparent..Ryan is too slow and there are few options...though i like Tips and shingles at 6 and 7 and warbs needs to pull his finger out (sorry)

glam

Because Ryan Jones has nothing to prove, offers little we don't know about and most importantly doesn't need the gametime. Remember Falatau is the one weapon the Dragons have and is working at the back of probably one of the weakest packs in europe, the odd game for Wales gives him a platform to perform.

Tips
Shinglar
Falatau

is an untested combo, but all 3 run superb support lines, are great ball carriers and link men. Thats a pretty exciting back row if not a bit lightweight but lets give it a go...

Shingles/Tips and Faletau...wow what a massively exciting prospect that is...but be careful...we're reinventing ourselves...Gats has taken years to turn us from a fine surgical instrument with mobile backrow player like Nugget to link backs and forwards and an offload game that exploited our handling skills and heads up talents, into a big, blunt instrument.

It seems a stupid argument we all know Ryan Jones is our best 8 but we must continue with a player who can't catch the ball and is playing poorly. Jones is too slow, tell that to The Scarlets and Munster back rows. Falatau was under no pressure and the weather was good when he dropped the ball twice and Wasps are a poor team. When players are playing poorly they must be dropped e.g., Preistland, I was taken back he managed to kick a drop goal but when I saw it on TV he miss kicked it!.

I am not sure about Shingler but he should be given a chance at least he can catch.

fair point...i feel it is the Welsh disease of making a player into a utility option that detracts from their expertise in a particular position...Ryan in the forwards and Hook in the backs. Why doesn't ryan own the 8 spot? He lost a load of pace after 2005 cos he bulked up, then he lost form and the captaincy and is now in his prime so perhaps yes he shoudl be given a run at 6 or 8

Wrong again, Jones was 18st 10lbs playing 8 during 2005 he is now a lot lighter as he is mainly playing 6. He seems to get a lot of MOTM awards for a slow player playing 6, 8 or 4.

what's wrong...that as a utility forward he os 2nd choice at lock, 6 and 8? why is that if he is our best 8? Answer...he is not our best 8 and has not been for some time...what he is a leader and a man who can do a good job at many forward positions. However, since you have it all figured out perhaps you should call messrs gats and howley and enlighten them....clearly they know something you don't

mowgli wrote:what's wrong...that as a utility forward he os 2nd choice at lock, 6 and 8? why is that if he is our best 8? Answer...he is not our best 8 and has not been for some time...what he is a leader and a man who can do a good job at many forward positions. However, since you have it all figured out perhaps you should call messrs gats and howley and enlighten them....clearly they know something you don't

If Gats and Howley are always correct, why did it take them so long to realise Powell was so poor, the same goes for G Cooper, D Jones and T James strange they were all Cardiff players at the time. We now have B Davies who is slow in body and mind and do you think Preistland is the best 10 Wales can muster?

glamorganalun wrote:

mowgli wrote:what's wrong...that as a utility forward he os 2nd choice at lock, 6 and 8? why is that if he is our best 8? Answer...he is not our best 8 and has not been for some time...what he is a leader and a man who can do a good job at many forward positions. However, since you have it all figured out perhaps you should call messrs gats and howley and enlighten them....clearly they know something you don't

If Gats and Howley are always correct, why did it take them so long to realise Powell was so poor, the same goes for G Cooper, D Jones and T James strange they were all Cardiff players at the time. We now have B Davies who is slow in body and mind and do you think Preistland is the best 10 Wales can muster?

Well watching last weekends rugby, Powell was arguably the best Welsh number eight, Priestland the best Flyhalf, Brad Davies excellent in the cardiff boiler house. Tom James is a fell runner and not a rugby player, but at least he is now about fifth choice at the Blues.

if they didnt have a few crucial injuries they would have put in a good away win.

glamorganalun wrote:

mowgli wrote:what's wrong...that as a utility forward he os 2nd choice at lock, 6 and 8? why is that if he is our best 8? Answer...he is not our best 8 and has not been for some time...what he is a leader and a man who can do a good job at many forward positions. However, since you have it all figured out perhaps you should call messrs gats and howley and enlighten them....clearly they know something you don't

If Gats and Howley are always correct, why did it take them so long to realise Powell was so poor, the same goes for G Cooper, D Jones and T James strange they were all Cardiff players at the time. We now have B Davies who is slow in body and mind and do you think Preistland is the best 10 Wales can muster?

Oh and you knew all this before everyone else? What about hook , what's your analysis, and what about Henson...I am intrigued and as you appear to be the fount of Welsh rugby please enlighten us oh learned one!!
Of course mere humans that they are Gats and Howley may not always be correct but I venture they know more than you hence why they are doign the job and you are on a rugby forum espousing carp...basically what you have doen is taken every Welsh name that didn't work out and suggested you knew all along...that's pretty stupid...so YOU knew Powell was 'poo' as you put it before everyone else?! In fact if you ask the blues about his perf they might disagree and for Wales he was an over-excitable liability due to his tendency to lose the ball in the contact area.

I still cant understand my some are suggesting that Warburton is picked at No6?

If he isn't on good enough form (which he isn't) at the moment to play in his natural position of No7 then how the hell is he in good enough form to play out of position at No6.

Morning Bedford:

I think the back row options are very good and its just about getting the balance right (he sais stating the obvious) - I think we need to get the basics right first and that is that we need a strong and secure platform - Shingler and Tipuric are absolutely fantastic players but we need the balance between power and athleticism otherwise we risk playing like the Scarlets of the past few years with great backs but little platform to work from. At the moment the form back row for me (Lydiate aside would be)

8 - Toby
7 - Tipuric/Warbs
6 - Ryan

Toby is playing in a poor pack - Alternatively

8 - Ryan
7 - Tipuric/Warbs
6 - Shingler

Left field choice

8 - Toby
7 - Shingler
6 - Ryan


These are decent combinations but we need the platform first otherwise we're unlikely to get quality ball.

Morning Ruby,

I agree we have options which in itself is great and if Tips was to start over Warbs then it wouldn't bother me but if Warbs plays let at least leave him at No7.

For me I would like to see Shingler given at least two of the games giving a back row row of

Shingler
Faletau
Tips/Warbs

I guess however that for the two big games we are likley to see

Jones
Faletau
Tips/Warbs

I'm with you Bedford it's just the lightweight element with Shingler and Tips in the same back row.

OK gonna throw out a bit of a random choice...

6. Warbs
7. Tips
8. Shinglar

I take on board that Toby isn't playing well (allbeit behind a poor tight 5) and Shinglars not really an 8 but that is a lot of pace, power and breakdown nous we'd have there, in an attempt to strangle the best in the world at the breakdown a bit like Robinson makes Scotland do (pretty succesfully I might add)

We are missing bulk and power but out tight 5 would have to put a shift in to make up for it, and the kind of engines those 3 have we may capitalise late on.

Bluesman - can you just add 4 backs to that and you've got our 7's team for the Olympics

Mowgli, you appear to be saying that Howley / Gatland cannot be criticized and we fans must simply approve their selections.

Ruby

Hook, North, Cuthbert and JD2???

Sorry, No Blues players after last weekend

Again, if Tipuric is considered better on form that Warburton at he moment fine but if Warbs isn't good enough to start at 7 what makes him good enough to start at 6 at the moment

How dare you ruby, 1/2p hit his penalties, and Cuthbert hit a hatrick, surely those 2 are ok to walk amongst us???

Bedford

I wasn't claiming Tips as the better 7 option, but IMO Warbs isn't performing to Tips abilities, and of the 2 I'd put Warbs at 6 because of Tips on the ball work.
I'd actually not hate to see that, but in reality Ryan Jones would probably have to play 8 in that scenario, couldn't afford the luxury of Falatau.

blues,

But again my point is if Warbs isn't considered good enough form wise at the moment (which I don't think he is) to play No7 then surely he isn't good enough form wise to play at No6

mowgli wrote:

glamorganalun wrote:

mowgli wrote:what's wrong...that as a utility forward he os 2nd choice at lock, 6 and 8? why is that if he is our best 8? Answer...he is not our best 8 and has not been for some time...what he is a leader and a man who can do a good job at many forward positions. However, since you have it all figured out perhaps you should call messrs gats and howley and enlighten them....clearly they know something you don't

If Gats and Howley are always correct, why did it take them so long to realise Powell was so poor, the same goes for G Cooper, D Jones and T James strange they were all Cardiff players at the time. We now have B Davies who is slow in body and mind and do you think Preistland is the best 10 Wales can muster?

Oh and you knew all this before everyone else? What about hook , what's your analysis, and what about Henson...I am intrigued and as you appear to be the fount of Welsh rugby please enlighten us oh learned one!!
Of course mere humans that they are Gats and Howley may not always be correct but I venture they know more than you hence why they are doign the job and you are on a rugby forum espousing carp...basically what you have doen is taken every Welsh name that didn't work out and suggested you knew all along...that's pretty stupid...so YOU knew Powell was 'poo' as you put it before everyone else?! In fact if you ask the blues about his perf they might disagree and for Wales he was an over-excitable liability due to his tendency to lose the ball in the contact area.

Mowgi

I had the misfortune of buying a ticket at £75 to watch England v Wales 3 years ago (at Twickers) prior to the team being selected, I have to say I was pee'ed off when most of the players I identified were selected as they were poor for their club at the time. I was not the only one, my mates I travelled with felt the same and the 606 posts at the time picked up on the selections. What was worse the selectors picked the same team against Scotland the following week, they were sub'ed at half time again, this was the game S Williams scored in injury time to rob the Scots.

I have to agree with the comment from Maes, that Powell had a good game against his old club and Preistland having a good game, it is the first time I have seen him kick a drop goal from many attempts, the mis kick may have helped. The current Welsh selections have improved over the last 18 months, I am still not a big fan of picking players out of position for internationals like Hook at FB but that is my opinion.

On another point, I don't insult fellow posters who have their own opinions.

But in reality who is???

Lydiate is out
Falatau is playing poorly
Jones could cover 6 but then risking a week 8 position
Mccusker could cover
Shinglar could cover

Or...

Warburton could offer more breakdown nous, added to tips support play and Jones carrying it could work.

Of course it's a risk, but then Robinson did the same on Aus soil and well his risk paid off. IMO to beat NZ we have to take risks!!!