British and Irish Lions Watch 2012-13

First topic message reminder :

This thread started many months back and has been a gradual examination of who is picking who for the impending Lions Tour.

Now the Six Nations is over and all we have left to judge is the HEC and the various national leagues.

I love that bag carrying guy on the Lions tours. Legend!

funnyExiledScot wrote:I love that bag carrying guy on the Lions tours. Legend!

God yeh, his name escapes me but he was hilarious. The banter between him and the Irish lads was great.

That would be Rala. Gas man.

Here he is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBMGCH8xbg0

Have a look at Glasgow's Rob Harley tonight agaisnt Ulster.

Lives for contact, destructive in the tackle, and with ridiculous fitness levels. Good lineout option as well. Plays 6 and lately 7, and if the Six Nations is as good for him as the season so far, he'll be putting his hand up.

Harley is my prediction for the ''young player of the tournament'' this 6N.

First time I looked at this thread i don't understand it...the orginal list looks like the people least like to go on the lions tour ....whats going on ?

most of these guys wont get anywhere near the tour why are they even mentioned ?

Chris the thread has been running for a few months all on the Lions XVs picked by various different websites newspapers and TV programs...

Fair enough i am just flabbergasted by some of the selections, perhaps the media bods are trying to get recogntion by being a bit 'crazy' ...number 8 baxter ? as in exeters richard baxter are they on smack ?

Have a look at the source and the time...! Maybe exeter had a blinder and the source was ESPN or SKY sports?

sirtidychris

The theory behind the list is that after each Heineken Cup weekend the Sky panel would rate every player eligible for the British and Irish Lions, creating a supposedly impartial and ongoing performance based index.

The list in the opening post should be updated after each HC weekend to assist the topic discussion really as it's still that from the first week of the competition, and based on only one set of games was obviously going to throw up some anomalies.

http://www.espnscrum.com/lions-tour-2013/rugby/story/175655.html

15. Leigh Halfpenny (Cardiff Blues)

Cardiff were hammered by Toulon but Halfpenny was their shining light. He looks certain to be a Lion next summer and his brace of tries against the Top 14 giants will have done his claims no harm.

14. Eli Walker (Ospreys)

One of the rising stars of Welsh rugby, Walker lit up the Liberty Stadium during the Ospreys' draw with Leicester Tigers. A member of the Wales U20 side that claimed 3rd place at last year's Junior World Championship, he may be drafted into the senior squad this week.

13. Darren Cave (Ulster)

Cave pushed his international claims with a superb try against Glasgow at Ravenhill. The Ireland No.13 shirt may belong to a certain Brian O'Driscoll but Cave's showing will have done his Six Nations chances no harm.

12. Brad Barritt (Saracens)

Much of what Barritt does happens without fanfare but he is one of the most effective tacklers and defensively secure players in Europe. The England international played a key role in Saracens' impressive comeback against Racing Metro.

11. Luke Fitzgerald (Leinster)

In Fitzgerald's first Heineken Cup match since last season, the Lion showed no ill-effects from his serious injury. He grabbed one of Leinster's five tries against the Scarlets and was a constant threat with ball in hand. Tom Varndell deserves a mention for his hat-trick in the Amlin Challenge Cup for Wasps against Mogliano.

10. Owen Farrell (Saracens)

Farrell's 32 points against Metro was a large part of the reason why Sarries secured one of the best results this season. He kicked 11 from 11 and put in a huge performance.

9. Conor Murray (Munster)

In difficult conditions at Murrayfield, Ireland international Murray did his best to propel an off-colour Munster past Edinburgh and he was rewarded for his efforts with a second half try.

1. Tom Court (Ulster)

It looks to be a straight shootout between Court and Leinster's Cian Healy for the Ireland No.1 jersey and it is the same here. Both were superb over the weekend but Court just gets the nod after his showing against Glasgow.



Northampton's Courtney Lawes was huge against Castres PA Photos
Enlarge
2. Sean Cronin (Leinster)

Cronin produced a busy display at the RDS that showcased his often-surprising pace and his impressive work-rate that included a gutsy nine tackles - just enough to edge out Leicester's Tom Youngs in our line-up.

3. Matt Stevens (Saracens)

Although he is retired from international duty, he is one of the in-form tight-heads on the European scene. He had the better of the Metro pack and never took a step backwards.

4. Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints)

Joe Launchbury appears to be the first choice No.4 for England now but Lawes made all the right noises against Castres on Friday evening. It was a performance packed with physicality and he made some impressive yards.

5. Alistair Kellock (Glasgow Warriors)

Glasgow came off second best against Ulster, but Kellock did not. He will play a key role in Scotland's Six Nations campaign and is an outside bet for a Lions spot.

6. Kelly Brown (Saracens)

One of the first names on the team sheet for Saracens and Scotland, Brown was huge against Racing Metro. He looks more assured at blindside than he does at No.8 and is in great form.

7. Justin Tipuric (Ospreys)

The Ospreys' openside shrugged of a recent shoulder injury to take a starring role in his side's Heineken Cup clash with Leicester. Imagine what he could do when fully fit?

8. Johnnie Beattie (Montpellier)

Beattie deservedly won the Man of the Match award against Sale on Friday evening and marked the occasion with a try.

Some strange calls from ESPN this week. I wouldn't even want to see Kellock at lock for Scotland let alone the lions. Equally Cronin and Barritt.

Barritt must have had a hell of a game to oust Fofana!

Agreed Radge. Kellock is nowhere near good enough to be a Lions. I can think of at least 10 better alternatives.

Thought Court was awesome against Glasgow, both in the scrum and the loose. Healy would still be my preferred loosehead for Ireland (and the Lions), but Court has given himself an excellent chance of going. A couple of seasons ago I'd never have predicted Court becoming so useful!

Always good to win 47-8 with 6 tries against reasonably respected opposition and not have anyone mentioned in ESPN's team despite 12/15 starters being Lions qualified

Oh come on. How can you compare Mike Brown's imperious performance to Leigh Halfpenny's? Halfpenny is Welsh!

funnyExiledScot wrote:Agreed Radge. Kellock is nowhere near good enough to be a Lions. I can think of at least 10 better alternatives.

Thought Court was awesome against Glasgow, both in the scrum and the loose. Healy would still be my preferred loosehead for Ireland (and the Lions), but Court has given himself an excellent chance of going. A couple of seasons ago I'd never have predicted Court becoming so useful!

His manshaming against England last year was clearly the making of him.

Hopefully Court eating Murray Low for breakfast at the weekend will similarly be the making of him. Likewise Robin Hislop's demolition at the hands of Botha yesterday.

We seem to have a fair few "manshamed" props in Scotland at the moment, who will hopefully "do a Tom Court" by this time next season....

Tom Court is a loosehead prop, and a very good one at that. His "manshaming" vs England happened when he was required to fill in the tighthead side due to injury to Mike Ross. Very harsh to write him off after that one off performance in a position he is not acustomed to.

The freak show that was Justin Tipuric yesterday has booked his seat on the plane

EnglandRose wrote:The freak show that was Justin Tipuric yesterday has booked his seat on the plane

He has an excellent chance for someone who isnt a first choice international.

GunsGerms wrote:

EnglandRose wrote:The freak show that was Justin Tipuric yesterday has booked his seat on the plane

He has an excellent chance for someone who isnt a first choice international.

Warburton is excellent at what he does, but Wales have missed Martyn Williams's initiative and rugby brain.

Tipuric is like a juiced up more physical Martyn Williams.
The Ospreys do better than the other Welsh regions because of forward dominance. Wales need an Ospreys dominated pack or they won't even get out of first gear.

Planet Rugby's Team of the HEC weekend just gone. 10 possible lions included.


Team of Round 5

15 Leigh Halfpenny (Cardiff Blues) - Still one of the first onto the plane for the British & Irish Lions, Halfpenny was a positive force on a tough day for the Blues in Toulon. A brace from the Wales full-back added some gloss to the scoreline.

14 Ugo Monye (Harlequins) - Snubbed by England and finding himself £10,000 short during last week due to a banking theft on his account, Monye turned his fortunes around with a great performance on his 200th game for Quins.

13 Benoit Baby (Biarritz) - One try and two assists for the former France centre lands him a spot after Biarritz's bonus-point win over Zebre, with Baby making plenty of metres in the process.

12 Wesley Fofana (Clermont) - Hitting a purple patch ahead of the Six Nations, Fofana was magnificent against Exeter - with over 100 metres made and finishing off an excellent team try.

11 Eli Walker (Ospreys) - The young Wales winger continued to impress with another fine showing, this time against Leicester Tigers. His clever footwork and searing pace led to the equalising try from Jonathan Spratt with time running out.

10 Owen Farrell (Saracens) - A real statement from the incumbent England fly-half. Perfect with the boot landing 11/11 kicks, Farrell might not be as expressive as Freddie Burns but his accuracy with the boot is crucial. Great composure.

9 Kahn Fotuali'i (Ospreys) - With Will Genia returning from injury, there is no better scrum-half around than Fotuali'i. Another commanding performance for the Osprey earned him the Man of the Match award. He will be highly sought after in the coming months.

8 Joe Bearman (Ospreys) - We found it difficult to leave out returning Scotland squad member Johnnie Beattie and also the immense Nick Williams. But there was a former Dragons forward playing an exceptional brand of rugby in Swansea. In went Bearman.

7 Justin Tipuric (Ospreys) - Rob Howley would be a brave coach to select Sam Warburton over Tipuric for their Six Nations opener against Ireland. The Osprey's step to go past Jordan Crane was superb while he mixed power with skills throughout against the Tigers.

6 Peter O'Mahony (Munster) - Was outstanding against Edinburgh. Nineteen carries in all from the youngster whose stock continues to rocket in Ireland while Stephen Ferris is out.

5 Courtney Lawes (Northampton) - The Lions hopeful had been criticised in recent weeks for, among other things, for being too upright in contact. But Lawes silenced a great deal of his critics against a resilient Castres forward pack on Friday in an all-action display.

4 Patricio Albacete (Toulouse) - The French giants had a tight and physical game-plan early on against Treviso and Albacete was key to it. The evergreen Puma second-row's try following hooker Gary Botha's effort after six minutes at Ernest Wallon laid the platform.

3 Matt Stevens (Saracens) - Stevens was in excellent form against Racing on Saturday as he continues his impressive performances after announcing he'd retired from international rugby. Solid in the set-piece and busy in broken play, Stevens gets in as our tighthead.

2 Jean Charles Orioli (Toulon) - Without Sebastien Bruno not playing, Saturday brought a big chance for Orioli and one which he took. Apparently John Smit is on his way to the club next term so Orioli will have another veteran to compete with. This week though he's No.1.

1 Cian Healy (Leinster) - In our eyes the Lions loosehead shirt has Healy's name all over it. He was a carrying machine against the Scarlets and edges Ulster's Tom Court to our final jersey. The fact he only played 40 minutes makes you wonder what he could've done in 80.

I do think Ugo is great but really?? He was having a massively uninspiring game until he scored that (to be fair amazing) try.

Brown was head and shoulders the best B&I back three player on the weekend.

Yeah I agree I'd have Brown in there. Fitzgerald also deserves a mention I think.

funnyExiledScot wrote:Hopefully Court eating Murray Low for breakfast at the weekend will similarly be the making of him. Likewise Robin Hislop's demolition at the hands of Botha yesterday.

We seem to have a fair few "manshamed" props in Scotland at the moment, who will hopefully "do a Tom Court" by this time next season....

To be fair, Low is just back from injury and Court is in a purple patch. Also shows why Murray remains our first choice for the 6N.

I also take the point that Court was deputising on the tighthead side in the England match which must have been seriously horrible.

He's sure as feic found his scrummaging trousers this season although will be doing very well to get a loosehead berth with the Lions particularly when players like Ryan Grant can play both sides of the front row. Court is great, though.

Planet Rugby seem to really hate picking Scottish players in their teams of the weekend.

Beattie and Brown played their respective games as well as it is possible to do and still got igonred....

Brown and Beattie got rave reviews on most sites.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=lxc4iN8_rjc

MM

That is dated Dec 2012 and noone has chosen Dan Cole, Manu, or Cian Healy???!!!

How does Jenkins, Warbs or north get there without playing very well at all, and how exactly does Jones, Lawes, Ferris, BOD or Kearney make their teams without playing at all?!!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

I suspect this was recorded last may and just released!

thebluesmancometh wrote:MM

That is dated Dec 2012 and noone has chosen Dan Cole, Manu, or Cian Healy???!!!

How does Jenkins, Warbs or north get there without playing very well at all, and how exactly does Jones, Lawes, Ferris, BOD or Kearney make their teams without playing at all?!!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

I suspect this was recorded last may and just released!

I suspect HSBC, in paying the 3, told them who they had to pick

I do find the fact that BOD is a HSBC ambassedor and rides around wearing his lions shirt constantly a bit unnerving!!!!

I get the feeling that for the first time in history the squad will be partly selected outside of the coach's hands, BOD seems to be all but on the plane despite being over the hill, and there being at least 4 better options!

thebluesmancometh wrote:I do find the fact that BOD is a HSBC ambassedor and rides around wearing his lions shirt constantly a bit unnerving!!!!

I get the feeling that for the first time in history the squad will be partly selected outside of the coach's hands, BOD seems to be all but on the plane despite being over the hill, and there being at least 4 better options!

I wouldn't go that far, that's a little unfair to accuse BOD to that degree!

No accusations aimed toward BOD himself!!!

But I have seen him in at least 3 differing interviews now wearing his Australia 2013 lions shirt talking about Lions stories, he seems to be promoting the lions and getting paid handsomely to do so, when does he get time to train for his club?!

The unknown talents who can use this European weekend as a springboard to Six Nations recognition


There is something about being a bit of an unknown; about flying under the radar with no pressure to perform.


By Will Greenwood
12:03 AM GMT 12 Jan 2013



All you have to do is worry about your game and not about the expectations of the crowd or selectors.
You might be someone who is building a career or an older pro who has been put out to pasture by the top selectors. It does not really matter.
What counts is the quality of rugby that these unfettered players seem to produce.
This weekend, as the European competitions kick off again, we will see them in action.
With the Six Nations fast approaching and that Lions tour looming large, there is a very good chance that if they keep playing well then they may suddenly find themselves getting selected for higher honours.
Get it right and their days of quietly enjoying their job will be a distant memory.


This week we will start with the Celtic nations


WALES
This is a tough one as injury has taken a real toll up front for Wales over the past six months.
It has had a huge impact on their international performances, while the regions have failed to use the Heineken Cup as their springboard to success.
There are three players, though, who would probably not ring your bell even if you lived next door to them, but may just have a chance.
The Scarlets back rower Josh Turnbull is one. His chances may be dented by Dan Lydiate. If Lydiate comes back quickly from injury Turnbull may struggle, if not the lad can play. He is an aggressive No6 who keeps moving forward and is very athletic.
In the second row there have been injuries to Luke Charteris and Ian Evans, as well as a time-out for Alun-Wyn Jones. That means there is a chance for Cardiff Blues second row Lou Reed. He travels around the park well and has a really good engine on him.
The third and fourth Wales long-shots are at hooker.
First up is the Ospreys’ Richard Hibbard, who is back in good form. A a big lump of a man, he carries and tackles well, and operates as an extra back-row forward.
Against him, and fighting all the way will be Ken Owens of the Scarlets. He may only get time off bench in the Six Nations but I always enjoy watching this lad play. He is a big, big man, very tall for a hooker, and strong in the set-piece.
However, his main weapon is his ball carrying. He carries a big physique around the park extremely well, makes dents in the gain line and more importantly tries not to die with the ball.
After busts or half-breaks he looks to get rid of it to faster men and then support. For me, he is the player to make a charge.
In the backs the most obvious area to look at would be fly-half because of the injury to Rhys Priestland.
This offers opportunities to Dan Biggar and even the young Cardiff lad Rhys Patchell.
I like the JPR lookalike Liam Williams of the Scarlets on the wing or at full-back. He throws himself into things with no fear for his own personal safety and does not look like he would ever take a step backwards.
But I am going to focus on the midfield here. It is tough to break the monopoly, the vice-like grip that Jamie Roberts and Jonathan Davies have on starting jerseys, and it means limited options for others.
Ashley Beck at the Ospreys is a tall gangly floater of an inside centre who can handle comfortably in traffic and reads defensive patterns well enough to marshall his own troops and will mount a challenge when he returns from injury next month.


IRELAND
There is a real chance for Dan Tuohy in the second row at Ulster, though he missed Friday night’s game against Glasgow with a calf strain.
He is a big lump who gets about, does what he is supposed to: hits things, pushes in the scrum, jumps well in the line-out. A good second row who would be a great Lions midweeker.
But for me, the real Ireland dark horse is another Ulsterman, the flanker Chris Henry. He is not the most gifted physically but he is a very, very clever footballer.
He knows when to commit at the breakdown and try to slow the ball down or steal it. Yet he is also smart enough to know when a ball is lost and then he gets on with next job, defending the next phase.
He knows when to go low and drop the runner or high and when to seal off the ball. He reads the backs well, so his support angles are very strong. And he is also very tough, the sort of fellow you want looking after you at the bottom of a ruck.
There are three Irish backs with very few games for their country who I think can break through.
Craig Gilroy, the Ulster winger, was outstanding against Fiji, then played very well against Argentina. He did not make the starting line up for Ulster until an injury to Tommy Bowe.
He is rapid, dances well, and as with all Irish backs is tough as a flanker.
Then there his Paul Marshall, the tiny scrum-half who understudies Ruan Pienaar at Ulster.
Marshall was brilliant against Castres in the opening round of the Heineken: breaking, scoring and creating. His issue is game time not just for Ireland but for Ulster.
And then there is another Marshall, the Ulster centre Luke, another who often sits on the bench, this time behind Paddy Wallace.
He too missed Friday night’s game with injury, but he is a cracking player and was simply outstanding against Fiji. Gain-line breaker, strong defender, and he can handle.


SCOTLAND
They have tried most of their players in the search for success so very few have not had a dig at international level.
Go to Glasgow though and you find the No8 Ryan Wilson, who should get some games in the Six Nations.
He is an an excellent all-round footballer and if Scotland are looking to 2015, Wilson, who missed Friday night’s game against Ulster with a shoulder injury, should climb the pecking order quickly.
In the front row, they have the loosehead Ryan Grant. He had an excellent autumn series. His basics are very strong, he gets about and is not afraid to play with the ball. But first and foremost he does his grunt work up front.
Sean Maitland, the New Zealand born wing, has come from almost nowhere and having discovered Scottish ancestry, got on a plane to become a kilted Kiwi.
When he played for the Canterbury Crusaders against Natal Sharks in the Super Rugby game at Twickenham following the Christchurch earthquake he was sensational. He has pace, balance, and a rugby education in New Zealand.
The other player to watch is scrum-half Henry Pyrgos, who has three caps but is still something of an unknown at the highest level.
He had been contesting the Scotland starting jersey with Mike Blair and now his rival has retired he has a real chance.
Pyrgos came off the bench against South Africa and scored with his first touch with a clever line-out move.
I like the look of him. He has time on the ball, and is not afraid of the rough stuff.

Of that lot I would only really call Maitland the dark horse, and that might turn out to be a good call, especially as Gatland will know him pretty well.

Willard Greenwood wrote:Sean Maitland, the New Zealand born wing, has come from almost nowhere and having discovered Scottish ancestry, got on a plane to become a kilted Kiwi.

No, just because Will Greenwood hadn't heard of Maitland until this week (despite scoring a hat-trick of tries at Twickenham for the Crusaders last year), doesn't mean Maitland has come from no where.

It's a shame that Greenwood is undoing all the fine achievements of his playing career by writing complete bull as a journo.

Incidentally, what are the odds that this collective article for all the celtic nations (as though that terms means anything to anyone) is followed by a single article for England?

It's that time of year again.
[Hackles rising]

You realise Greenwood refers to the incident you put in brackets literally straight after the sentence you miscomprehended, right? When he says come from nowhere it looks like he means in terms of playing for (and being eligible to do so) the Lions. Which is an indisputable fact. I have more respect for Greenwood as a sports journalist than any other rugby writer I can think of but Moore. Admittedly the quality is generally not high though

Sorry I was needlessly aggressive there

I think I was as well - so aggressive that I missed his Twickenham reference!

It has been a long day.

Hats off to Matt Stevens. I have been quite critical of him but as the season has gone on he's been getting better. Giving away less penalties too!

beshocked wrote:Hats off to Matt Stevens. I have been quite critical of him but as the season has gone on he's been getting better. Giving away less penalties too!

Good enough to oust Jones or Cole..???

Haven't seen much of him recently bar the HEC double header pre Xmas.

No way can Stevens oust Jones or Cole....i would cry if that happened...let him enjoy his time with Sarries...

Wilkinson has had an absolutely shocking game vs Montpellier today.

bsando wrote:Wilkinson has had an absolutely shocking game vs Montpellier today.

He hasn't played well for them for months...!

He's still better than Priestland.

Your right Cyril, craig Preistland was awfull today, but he plays 8 so...

thebluesmancometh wrote:Your right Cyril, craig Preistland was awfull today, but he plays 8 so...

If you're going to make a joke about the names being the same, at least spell it right, otherwise it falls a bit flat

Oh no youve hit me where it hurts, my rushed tipyng skills

thebluesmancometh wrote:Oh no youve hit me where it hurts, my rushed tipyng skills

Just trying to help, bluey. Work on that humour too

I wull tri too cyzil, fank yoo