British and Irish Lions Watch 2012-13

First topic message reminder :

This thread started many months back and has been a gradual examination of who is picking who for the impending Lions Tour.

Now the Six Nations is over and all we have left to judge is the HEC and the various national leagues.

ChequeredJersey wrote:Think our backrow is pretty decent, Ferris could well tour as he is class, but I 'd say our second row was more of a weakness

My wording wasn't the best. What I meant was, I think we have a few players in 2nd row who are up there with, and better than, POC. In backrow, maybe Robshaw or SOB, if anyone, is up there with an on form Ferris.

Backrow we have Poopie of top notch players. One area where we really do have riches.

gleesonisgod wrote:On the point of units rather than individuals I think that also goes against the ethos of the Lions.

Is the ethos of the Lions to lose? Is it better to populate the Lions squad with 40 incompatible individuals or units that actually have practised together and know how to play against opposition units who have practised together. The playing field is already heavily tilted in the favour of the SH sides, but hey the NH Lions might as well make it as difficult as they can for themselves.

Regarding tradition the current Lions lite tours are NOTHING like they were in the past so do they go against that ethos?
They used to have 30 odd matches and sail away on a boat for 5 months so anything less must not be in the proper Lions tradition - no? What about when the Lions were only picked from England and Wales - was that the gold standard? Obviously the selective nostalgia that the PR people ingrain into peoples' minds sells more shirts but it doesn't make the team any more competitive.

If I had to select a test team to beat Australia I'd go for;

1 - Healy (ire)
2 - Best (ire)
3 - Cole (eng)

The form front-row; will be very competitive in the scrum, Best is usually a consistent thrower and all three will contribute plenty in the loose.

4 - Gray (sco)
5 - Parling (eng)

I think Parling has to be in there, we'll need a leader at the line-out and he's been showing up well in the loose. Tough choice but Gray gives you something very different in the loose and his work-rate is fantastic, Launchbury is very close though.

6 - Wood (eng)
7 - Armitage (eng)
8 - Beattie (sco)

Right explanation time; Wood has been one of the form back-row players and does a lot of things well around the park. Armitage above Robshaw is controversial but he gives you something completely different, an out an out jackal at the breakdown and a miniature Bastareaud in attack. Beattie is a wonderfully rounded number eight and probably more dynamic than Faletau, behind a dominant pack he could devastating.

9 - Youngs (eng)
10 - Sexton (ire)

Youngs is head and shoulders above the other scrum-halves right now, he's intelligent and sharp. Sexton on the front-foot is a joy to watch; great awareness, soft hands, confidence and he's a very competent kicker.

12 - Tuilagi (eng)
13 - O'Driscoll (ire)

The impact Tuilagi can have on a match is incredible, surround him with more world class backs and the Australians are going to struggle to contain him. Not the player he was 12 years ago when he tore past Burke but the head is so much wiser and he's still one of the most competitive defenders in the game.

11 - North (wal)
14 - Maitland (sco)
15 - Hogg (sco)

Lets get North out the way, there is no way on earth you wouldn't select him. Maitland is more left field but he's probably the most rounded right wing available, both in defence and attack, plus he's really really fast. May be inexperienced but Hogg is electric right now, especially when counter-attacking, plus he's been defending well and his kicking has been monstrous.

16 - Youngs (eng)
17 - Jenkins (wal)
18 - Jones (wal)
19 - Launchbury (eng)
20 - O'Brien (ire)
21 - Philips (wal)
22 - Farrell (eng)
23 - Halfpenny (wal)

Been impressed with Youngs so far, apart from a couple wobbles. Jenkins and Jones are both still class performers and they've got the experience to come on and do the job. Launchbury has really impressed and along with O'Brien, their physicality could really cause Australia problems off the bench. Same goes for the scrum-half replacement. Farrell has shown he's got a cool head when it matters, plus he can cover 12 and kick goals. Halfpenny is experienced, in form and can play across the back three as well as having a huge kicking range.

English - 9
Welsh - 5
Irish - 5
Scottish - 4

The Great Aukster you select the best individual players that are fit and in form, not International units. Roberts and O'Driscoll had never played together before but it seemed to work out ok in South Africa.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Or in 97 Dawson, Townsend and Guscott

I think it was Gibbs at inside centre who stole the show.

Gibbs played the 1st test and Guscott the second. Delete as appropriate. They both played parts in the wins.

In 1997 ?

No guscott and Gibbs played all three tests, Guscott was an outside centre Gibbs inside. Guscott wore the 12 shirt thoughout his career as bath rfc retired the number 12 shirt to commemorate a lost player.

The Great Aukster wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:It doesn't need to work like that, we have better options. The team have as much time to gel as any new coach has with a new international team.

It will be interesting to see the final outcome though as every week a man is named as a certain starter and a game later he is relegated from such a glorious position as another takes his place.

There is great competition for places all around the park and this should make for an excellent lions squad. Hopefully reflecting the abilities of all the home nations.

As I said it is far more important to have team units in the pack.

How is it remotely close to any new coach with a new Test team?
1. Gatland has to get far more players to gel who have NEVER played together before at any level under any coach.
2. Very few new coaches know they only have three Tests and they MUST win two of them against a top 3 side - and that with next to no practice.

How about Scott Johnson?

Five games, new squad, new team two weeks traing before the first test no warm ups.

Best run Scotland have had in the six nations in a while.

maestegmafia wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:It doesn't need to work like that, we have better options. The team have as much time to gel as any new coach has with a new international team.

It will be interesting to see the final outcome though as every week a man is named as a certain starter and a game later he is relegated from such a glorious position as another takes his place.

There is great competition for places all around the park and this should make for an excellent lions squad. Hopefully reflecting the abilities of all the home nations.

As I said it is far more important to have team units in the pack.

How is it remotely close to any new coach with a new Test team?
1. Gatland has to get far more players to gel who have NEVER played together before at any level under any coach.
2. Very few new coaches know they only have three Tests and they MUST win two of them against a top 3 side - and that with next to no practice.

How about Scott Johnson?

Five games, new squad, new team two weeks traing before the first test no warm ups.

Best run Scotland have had in the six nations in a while.

I know it may have looked like the Scotland players had never played together before or even knew each other last year but a surprising number of them have actually played in the same national and club teams since they were bairns. Considering Johnson was their assistant coach nearly a year ago it's a surprising revelation that he never got to know them until this year - did Robinson segregate his coaches from the players and pass on their pearls of wisdom by proxy?

funnyExiledScot wrote:Maybe Cross will go as medical support to Dr James Robson. That's the only way I can see him going.

Genuinely a great joke which nobody other than Scots posters will get.

The Great Aukster wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:It doesn't need to work like that, we have better options. The team have as much time to gel as any new coach has with a new international team.

It will be interesting to see the final outcome though as every week a man is named as a certain starter and a game later he is relegated from such a glorious position as another takes his place.

There is great competition for places all around the park and this should make for an excellent lions squad. Hopefully reflecting the abilities of all the home nations.

As I said it is far more important to have team units in the pack.

How is it remotely close to any new coach with a new Test team?
1. Gatland has to get far more players to gel who have NEVER played together before at any level under any coach.
2. Very few new coaches know they only have three Tests and they MUST win two of them against a top 3 side - and that with next to no practice.

How about Scott Johnson?

Five games, new squad, new team two weeks traing before the first test no warm ups.

Best run Scotland have had in the six nations in a while.

I know it may have looked like the Scotland players had never played together before or even knew each other last year but a surprising number of them have actually played in the same national and club teams since they were bairns. Considering Johnson was their assistant coach nearly a year ago it's a surprising revelation that he never got to know them until this year - did Robinson segregate his coaches from the players and pass on their pearls of wisdom by proxy?

Sarcasm? Well done, always a good response.

reallybored wrote:If I had to select a test team to beat Australia I'd go for;

1 - Healy (ire)
2 - Best (ire)
3 - Cole (eng)

The form front-row; will be very competitive in the scrum, Best is usually a consistent thrower and all three will contribute plenty in the loose.

4 - Gray (sco)
5 - Parling (eng)

I think Parling has to be in there, we'll need a leader at the line-out and he's been showing up well in the loose. Tough choice but Gray gives you something very different in the loose and his work-rate is fantastic, Launchbury is very close though.

6 - Wood (eng)
7 - Armitage (eng)
8 - Beattie (sco)

Right explanation time; Wood has been one of the form back-row players and does a lot of things well around the park. Armitage above Robshaw is controversial but he gives you something completely different, an out an out jackal at the breakdown and a miniature Bastareaud in attack. Beattie is a wonderfully rounded number eight and probably more dynamic than Faletau, behind a dominant pack he could devastating.

9 - Youngs (eng)
10 - Sexton (ire)

Youngs is head and shoulders above the other scrum-halves right now, he's intelligent and sharp. Sexton on the front-foot is a joy to watch; great awareness, soft hands, confidence and he's a very competent kicker.

12 - Tuilagi (eng)
13 - O'Driscoll (ire)

The impact Tuilagi can have on a match is incredible, surround him with more world class backs and the Australians are going to struggle to contain him. Not the player he was 12 years ago when he tore past Burke but the head is so much wiser and he's still one of the most competitive defenders in the game.

11 - North (wal)
14 - Maitland (sco)
15 - Hogg (sco)

Lets get North out the way, there is no way on earth you wouldn't select him. Maitland is more left field but he's probably the most rounded right wing available, both in defence and attack, plus he's really really fast. May be inexperienced but Hogg is electric right now, especially when counter-attacking, plus he's been defending well and his kicking has been monstrous.

16 - Youngs (eng)
17 - Jenkins (wal)
18 - Jones (wal)
19 - Launchbury (eng)
20 - O'Brien (ire)
21 - Philips (wal)
22 - Farrell (eng)
23 - Halfpenny (wal)

Been impressed with Youngs so far, apart from a couple wobbles. Jenkins and Jones are both still class performers and they've got the experience to come on and do the job. Launchbury has really impressed and along with O'Brien, their physicality could really cause Australia problems off the bench. Same goes for the scrum-half replacement. Farrell has shown he's got a cool head when it matters, plus he can cover 12 and kick goals. Halfpenny is experienced, in form and can play across the back three as well as having a huge kicking range.

English - 9
Welsh - 5
Irish - 5
Scottish - 4

The Great Aukster you select the best individual players that are fit and in form, not International units. Roberts and O'Driscoll had never played together before but it seemed to work out ok in South Africa.

Probably or of the best selections I've seen so far reallybored I think that team would do very well.

The Great Aukster wrote:

gleesonisgod wrote:On the point of units rather than individuals I think that also goes against the ethos of the Lions.

Is the ethos of the Lions to lose? Is it better to populate the Lions squad with 40 incompatible individuals or units that actually have practised together and know how to play against opposition units who have practised together.

How ridiculous. Why on earth should any new combinations be incompatible?

reallybored wrote:The Great Aukster you select the best individual players that are fit and in form, not International units. Roberts and O'Driscoll had never played together before but it seemed to work out ok in South Africa.

Do you really believe any Lions coach in history has selected the "best individual players that are fit and in form"? They first of all have to negotiate the political selections and then try and select a team that will work as a team since rugby is a team sport. Even Test nations don't always select their most gifted individuals - Carlos Spencer anyone? Some players are just on a totally different wavelength. Teams like Toulon and Clermont are only starting to perform in line with the quality of player they have in their ranks (after how many years?), because it takes time for those players to crystalise into a team.

I wouldn't dispute that Roberts/O'Driscoll was a "successful" pairing against the Boks, but the Boks still won the series so lauding that particular swallow was no proof summer had arrived for the Lions.

Roberts and BOD were played not because they were necessarily the best centre's in 2009... but that they both suited the boks style of play.

Had in 09 the lions been playing AUS I imagine a combo of Flutey and BOD would have been more likely to have been used.

In the end Roberts and BOD were good in defence... but offered nothing in attack bar the route 1 bosh and I can't recall either breaking the line?

Also note that their opposition pairing was JDV and Jacobs. Most people laugh at Jacobs at a nothing player (although I myself don't), they never exploited his weaknesses in defence. The glorious partnership should only really be seen with a red tinted gloss... it was nothing on Gibbs & Guscott who were the ideal pairing in both defence and attack and tested as the first choice pairing in 2 competitive series (both genuine Lions legends).

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:

gleesonisgod wrote:On the point of units rather than individuals I think that also goes against the ethos of the Lions.

Is the ethos of the Lions to lose? Is it better to populate the Lions squad with 40 incompatible individuals or units that actually have practised together and know how to play against opposition units who have practised together.

How ridiculous. Why on earth should any new combinations be incompatible?

Quite right LP. I should have said "potentially" incompatible. With zero evidence of how players (who have never played together) will actually play together the chances are they could be equally compatible or incompatible. Of course if players have played together then the coach has no such uncertainty.

Incompatibility as a unit does not equate with individual ability though. It would be possible for Gatland to pick the four best locks in terms of ability and find they are all front jumpers, or none of them call the lineout. Hopefully he is cleverer than that but it demonstrates that he has to select players by guessing how compatible they will be as a unit rather than actually knowing. If he guesses wrong he has no time to iron out the kinks but just has to live with it.

Working within whatever political considerations may (or may not) exist, the job of the Lions coach is to select the squad he thinks stands the best chance of success.

Sometimes that may be to include club/country units - sometimes not. In the end that means making certain decisions that may seem to be selecting lesser players because they will be more effective. The Lions coach will always have a natural bias towards players they have worked with before - they know them so much more and know what they can deliver. Howeve a successful Lions coach needs to meld the players into an effective unit - which usually means forging new partnerships.

What we also need to remember is that the Lions coach has quite a long period in with the players before the tests to see what goes well.

The last successful Lions tour was 97 in SA. Some stand-out decisions were:

1) The selection of the props. Smith and Wallace were not expected to be the test props - were from different countries - but Geech realised that being small and compact and technical they could get under the much bigger SA props and nullify them
2) Townsend the most talented of the 10s on tour was selected in that position, meaning Neil Jenkins, largely untried at FB, went there to give the team a goal kicker. Was he the best FB - no way, but Geech decided that was the most effective use of his resources.
3) Selection of MJ as captain. He was not England's captain - but again Geech felt he was the right man to stand up to the South Africans and the right men to help turn the tourists into a team.

Of course having units that are used to each other can work - but in the end the skill is in blending different talents to create a team.

I just wish people would judge Gatland first of all after he has named his squad and secondly after the tour.

RubyGuby wrote:I just wish people would judge Gatland first of all after he has named his squad and secondly after the tour.

Ah but it is so much more fun the other way round.

Front row is probably the place where a settled unit is most advantageous. In other areas, it's more about complementary styles and fit to the gameplan than experienced combinations. Farrell Snr has shown that he can get a defensive strategy working quickly, and England's back row combinations have varied widely over the last ten games or so but still seem to be working.

If I had to pick 2 players in each position right now it would be -
1. Healy, Jenkins
2. Best, T.Youngs
3. Cole, A.Jones
4. Grey, Launchbury
5. Parling, Hamilton
6. Wood,O'Brien
7. Robshaw, Tupiric
8. Morgan, Felatau
9. B.Youngs, Laidlaw
10. Sexton, Farrell
11. North, Maitland
12.Roberts, BOD
13. JD2, Tuilagi
14. Cuthbert, Halfpenny
15. Brown, Hogg

This is as I see it......apologies to those boffs if I've got my blind and opensides mixed up or my left and right wings confused.

All these guys named have interested me enough to want to see a bit more.
Plenty are left out that are either injured or seen a little blip in form - these guys I would also like involved although currently perhaps not in the top 2 for each position -
Heaslip, R.Jones, Phillips, Zebo, Barritt, Care, Mike Ross, Lydiate, Maitland

how about as a bit of a bolter that Irish 12 that made all the impressive line breaks against Scotland? Could be an interesting addition to the team.

Other bolter for the mid weekers would be Joel Tomkins, a big physical 13 who has SBWesq hands. He's in and around the England squad at the moment and by all accounts is impressing everyone.

Yes, there are plenty of Bolters that could still go....
Loads I havent named - Twelvetrees, Joel Tompkins, are all playing well at the moment.

Others that are injured too - but showed glimpses of class,
Joseph etc.

Those new Irish caps definately - Gilroy, or Henry.

How do we define a bolter - is it a recently capped player or someone with no international recognition?

I guess it should be someone with no Int caps? But one or two would hardly make a difference. Perhaps someone that's only just played Internationally this year so kind of come out of nowhere?

Don't think he will or should Lions tour, but I'd love to see Wade ball in hand in an attacking game in sunny weather on a firm pitch

ChequeredJersey wrote:Don't think he will or should Lions tour, but I'd love to see Wade ball in hand in an attacking game in sunny weather on a firm pitch

Book your tickets for Mendoza now, then. I'd have thought that he'd tour with England rather than the Lions.

Will he get a look in? Frankly we look set to retain all our EPS and Saxon Back 3 candidates for the Argentina tour...

What do people make of Brown's chance of touring?

Captaining Scotland well this tournament, can play across back-row, experienced, plays for a top performing club and is currently leading the tackle count and turnover stats after first 3 rounds.

reallybored wrote:What do people make of Brown's chance of touring?

Captaining Scotland well this tournament, can play across back-row, experienced, plays for a top performing club and is currently leading the tackle count and turnover stats after first 3 rounds.

He's superb ReallyBored - master penalty procurer and tackle machine - his principal crime is being unfashionable, however.

He'd be good, Brown-Robshaw as a L-R is a good combo, as would any combo of SOB, Wood, Brown and Robshaw tbh. Such a competitive area though with Tipuric, Jones in the mix plus the injured lads

The tackle count is a bit of a red herring as Scotland have been beaten in the possession stats in every game, significantly in two of them, but he's looked very strong at the breakdown, particularly against England.

thomh wrote:The tackle count is a bit of a red herring as Scotland have been beaten in the possession stats in every game, significantly in two of them, but he's looked very strong at the breakdown, particularly against England.

Stats never lie right?

maestegmafia wrote:

thomh wrote:The tackle count is a bit of a red herring as Scotland have been beaten in the possession stats in every game, significantly in two of them, but he's looked very strong at the breakdown, particularly against England.

Stats never lie right?

The whole point of my post was that stats do lie.

thomh wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

thomh wrote:The tackle count is a bit of a red herring as Scotland have been beaten in the possession stats in every game, significantly in two of them, but he's looked very strong at the breakdown, particularly against England.

Stats never lie right?

The whole point of my post was that stats do lie.

Stats always lie when they dont fit your hypothesis

thomh wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

thomh wrote:The tackle count is a bit of a red herring as Scotland have been beaten in the possession stats in every game, significantly in two of them, but he's looked very strong at the breakdown, particularly against England.

Stats never lie right?

The whole point of my post was that stats do lie.

Yes I understand your point.

They don't lie, but sometimes they omit the truth

Glas a du wrote:They don't lie, but sometimes they omit the truth

Too right

By Steve James for TheTelegraph
2 Mar 2013


Last weekend did not go particularly well for Jonathan Davies. That is Davies the former Wales fly-half-turned-BBC pundit rather than the Wales centre of the same name, who scored a try in their comfortable win over Italy.

First, due to illness suffered by commentator Andrew Cotter, Davies the summariser was pressed into commentary duties. It is not an easy transition, and Davies certainly didn’t make it sound easy.

Then on Sunday, to the BBC Wales Scrum V programme, Davies announced his prospective Lions team. There was no Leigh Halfpenny in it. At full-back was Scotland’s Stuart Hogg, and Davies could not even find room for Halfpenny on the wing, where he plumped for Wales’ George North and Ireland’s Tommy Bowe.
By Steve James11:00PM GMT 02 Mar 2013
Last weekend did not go particularly well for Jonathan Davies. That is Davies the former Wales fly-half-turned-BBC pundit rather than the Wales centre of the same name, who scored a try in their comfortable win over Italy.

First, due to illness suffered by commentator Andrew Cotter, Davies the summariser was pressed into commentary duties. It is not an easy transition, and Davies certainly didn’t make it sound easy.

Then on Sunday, to the BBC Wales Scrum V programme, Davies announced his prospective Lions team. There was no Leigh Halfpenny in it. At full-back was Scotland’s Stuart Hogg, and Davies could not even find room for Halfpenny on the wing, where he plumped for Wales’ George North and Ireland’s Tommy Bowe.

Unsurprisingly, it did not go down well in the Principality. And it rather went against the post-Italy encomium afforded Halfpenny by the legendary Barry John. “Halfpenny is basically what Gareth Bale is to Tottenham and the Wales football team,” he said.

Explaining his decision, Davies said: ‘’Hogg gives an advantage. Attack-wise, he is brilliant and he’s got pace. He just has a little bit extra in attack.’’

And I have to say that there is some logic to Davies’ argument. Personally I would still find room for Halfpenny on the wing (where he won his first 20 caps, even if he has won his last 19 at full-back), if none can be found at the back, but it is certainly true that Hogg is the more exciting attacker, whether from deep or especially when entering the line, which is not Halfpenny’s forte.

And Hogg will be hoping to demonstrate as much when the pair come head-to-head in the Scotland v Wales match at Murrayfield next Saturday, with Lions coach Warren Gatland watching intently.

Gatland was coach of Wales last season in Cardiff when the

19-year-old Hogg became Scotland’s youngest debutant for nearly 50 years. It was some entrance too, when he scored a stunning ‘try’ which was wrongly disallowed for a knock on.

Hogg has become a master of the long-range try. He had announced as much when scoring spectacularly from 60 metres for Scotland A against England Saxons last year. And he merely buttressed that reputation with his interception effort from 80 metres against Italy during this campaign. His kick-and-chase try against England wasn’t too shabby either.

In Halfpenny you have solidity. He may not be tall, but he has an outstanding leap that, along with the protection afforded by the laws to catchers in the air, makes him a rock under the high ball. Hogg is usually safe, but he did drop the first bomb sent his way in Scotland’s shock victory over Ireland in the last round of matches.

Halfpenny’s tackling often redefines the word bravery, as England discovered at Twickenham last year when he ran the width of the pitch to hurl himself headfirst into David Strettle, knocking himself out but preventing the try and a possible England draw.

If there is one criticism of Halfpenny’s defensive work, though, it is that he can be a little too quiet in communicating what he sees in front of him. But then he is not alone among the Wales team. They are not a bunch of flibbertigibbets.

Hogg’s defence is decent, especially his spatial awareness, as demonstrated by his clever shepherding of Ireland’s Keith Earls towards the touchline in last weekend’s game. Earls should really have scored.

There is also the small matter of Halfpenny’s dead-eyed place kicking to consider. He was once the long-range speculator — as Hogg was in missing such a chance against Ireland last week — but is now very much the banker for Cardiff Blues and Wales.

Of course, we should not forget Ireland’s Rob Kearney in this full-back equation. England’s Alex Goode is having a fine campaign too, and maybe a revitalised Ben Foden could prosper on hard grounds in Australia. How about Wales’s Lee Byrne as a bolter? And what about England’s left wing, Mike Brown?

Whatever happens next Saturday, it would be a huge surprise were both Halfpenny and Hogg not on the plane to Australia.

Indeed it would be as big a surprise as Scotland winning this match. Wales have only lost one of the last 10 matches between the teams, at Murrayfield on 2007.

Their run should continue, even if Scotland’s garrulous coach Scott Johnson, once of Wales, has inside knowledge of the visitors’ camp.

maestegmafia wrote:By Steve James for TheTelegraph
2 Mar 2013


Indeed it would be as big a surprise as Scotland winning this match. Wales have only lost one of the last 10 matches between the teams, at Murrayfield on 2007.

Their run should continue, even if Scotland’s garrulous coach Scott Johnson, once of Wales, has inside knowledge of the visitors’ camp.

"Jim Telfer blasts arrogant Welsh"

Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:By Steve James for TheTelegraph
2 Mar 2013


Indeed it would be as big a surprise as Scotland winning this match. Wales have only lost one of the last 10 matches between the teams, at Murrayfield on 2007.

Their run should continue, even if Scotland’s garrulous coach Scott Johnson, once of Wales, has inside knowledge of the visitors’ camp.

"Jim Telfer blasts arrogant Welsh"

"Should" and "Will" are two very different words carefully chosen. Wales should beat Scotland, they should have beaten Argentina and Samoa, they didn't.

Sky Sports March 4th 2013

Skysports.com's Tony Curtis puts himself into Gatland's shoes and names his Lions XV.

Remember the selections are based purely on this weekends games.


While one eye will have undoubtedly been on the on-going action in the Super Rugby, Gatland's priority will have been on the performances of the home unions.

And as one or two individuals play themselves out of contention for the tour to Australia, a number continue to stake strong claims.

15 Leigh Halfpenny (Wales)

It is going to take something pretty special to deny Halfpenny the Lions No 15 jersey come the summer. Despite the atrocious conditions in Rome, Halfpenny was safe as houses under the high ball and kept his cool to slot over 16 points.

14 Alex Cuthbert (Wales)

Scored one and was unlucky not to get another, when an ankle tap from Gonzalo Canale denied him. He looked a threat throughout and was strong in defence as well to quell Italy's early fight..

13 Manu Tuilagi (England)

The England centre was back to his human-wrecking ball best. He won his personal duel with Mathieu Bastareaud, consistently made it over the gainline and scored the game-breaking try.

12 Luke Marshall (Ireland)

A highly-impressive debut from the Ulster centre. He looked a real menace with the ball in hand - particularly in the first half - and looks to be the long-term successor to Gordon D'Arcy.

11 Craig Gilroy (Ireland)

It was a tough weekend for the wingers, however Gilroy did everything that was asked off him and scored the opening try. Ireland - and possibly the Lions - need to find a better way of making the most of his talents.

10 Dan Biggar (Wales)

This was arguably his best performance in a Wales jersey. He looked a threat in attack, had a hand in both Welsh tries and was solid in defence. Currently a big outsider to tour with the Lions but two more displays like this will do his cause no harm at all.

9 Greig Laidlaw (Scotland)

A second appearance for Laidlaw in our side, the Scotland No 9 was simply immense in the rear-guard victory over Ireland. He also landed his kicks at goal to clinch the win.

1 Gethin Jenkins (Wales)

There are signs that Jenkins is now back to his best. Played a crucial role in the dismantling of the Italian pack in the scrum and only a hamstring injury preventing him from doing more damage.

2 Ross Ford (Scotland)

Showed the sort of form that saw him tour with the Lions in the past. Worked hard in the set-piece and was a thorn in Ireland's side as they looked to claw something from the game.

3 Adam Jones (Wales)

There was some serious competition for the tighthead's jersey from Geoff Cross and Dan Cole (although largely for his work at the breakdown), but Jones edges for the way the Italy pack crumbled on home soil

4 Richie Gray (Scotland)

A superb defensive display from the Scotland lock. He got through a phenomenal amount of work, particularly at the breakdown.

5 Jim Hamilton (Scotland)

The lock was Scotland's enforcer and was involved in every flair-up and he took the fight to Ireland. He gave his all in the set-piece and was the thumping heart in the Scottish challenge.

6 Ryan Jones (Wales)

A left-field suggestion here - and I fully expect to get the usual amount of abuse - but I feel Jones is not only playing himself in to contention for the Lions but for the captaincy too. Another impressive display, particularly in defence, helped Wales to a hard-fought win, but his leadership was spot on.

7 Chris Robshaw (England)

I am running out of words of praise for Robshaw... he is in the form of his life and deserved the man-of-the-match award at Twickenham. His work-rate is something else, while he does a fair amount of the dirty work at the breakdown.

8 Tom Wood (England)

Wood was only just edged out of the man-of-the-match award by his back-row colleague. His hands were superb, he tackled his heart out and he made a timely interception. Not bad considering this isn't his favoured position.

reallybored wrote:What do people make of Brown's chance of touring?

Captaining Scotland well this tournament, can play across back-row, experienced, plays for a top performing club and is currently leading the tackle count and turnover stats after first 3 rounds.

This is playing out of position too. Kelly Brown's best position is 6 yet he has been shoehorned in at 7.

Hopefully Johnson will pick the Killer Bs vs Wales with each B in their correct position.

beshocked wrote:

reallybored wrote:What do people make of Brown's chance of touring?

Captaining Scotland well this tournament, can play across back-row, experienced, plays for a top performing club and is currently leading the tackle count and turnover stats after first 3 rounds.

This is playing out of position too. Kelly Brown's best position is 6 yet he has been shoehorned in at 7.

Hopefully Johnson will pick the Killer Bs vs Wales with each B in their correct position.

Brown and Harley have rotated roles often from six and seven during the last few games. Brown is a superb six. Could well be the man we need. His Stats are very impressive too.

Delme Parfitt is neither the least biased, most knowledgeable, well respected nor informative of the Western Mail's Rugby columnists, but we gave Mick Cleary his day in the sun with his lions XV post England vs All blacks game.


So here is what Delme thinks on the Lions XV.

15 Leigh Halfpenny
14 George North
13 Manu Tuilagi
12 Brad Barritt
11 Tim Visser
10 Jonathan Sexton
9 Mike Phillips
1 Gethin Jenkins
2 Rory Best
3 Adam Jones
4 Joe Launchbury
5 Geoff Parling
6 Sean O’Brien
7 Chris Robshaw
8 Johnnie Beattie


The down, two to go, so who is in pole position as we enter the final straight of the Six Nations to make Warren Gatland’s Lions Test team in Australia this summer?

Well, the first thing worth noting is how few positions appear nailed on.

From one to 15 you struggle to find any individual who looks a certainty barring injury, so there’s enormous incentive for everybody in the frame as we approach the last two assignments.

I’ve picked largely on form here, though I’m convinced that if somebody like Dan Lydiate or Tommy Bowe does enough in what little time he has to state a case on his return from a long-term ankle problem, Gatland will have no qualms about taking them.

As ever when this exercise is conducted, the selection is subject to the usual landscape shifts, though the time left for those is getting shorter.

So who makes the cut? Here goes....

15 LEIGH HALFPENNY

The Blues man has been accused of not coming into the attacking line with enough purpose, with some pundits therefore plumping for Scottish dangerman Stuart Hogg.

But on that front Halfpenny is to a large extent a hostage to his team’s style and patterns. I’m not sure even Serge Blanco would get through much mileage with ball in hand in this Wales side who seem to find it hard enough just to put it through their centres.

Yet Halfpenny ticks so many other boxes, not least the one marked ‘brilliant goalkicker.’

For me, his reliability, bravery and all-round solidity will rightly win the day in the eyes of Gatland.

Rob Kearney’s the other choice, but he hasn’t really done himself justice in the tournament thus far.

14 GEORGE NORTH

He didn’t go into the tournament producing the form he is capable of, but North has given a few reminders of the extraordinarily potent mix of strength and pace he possesses, his finish for the all-important try in Paris an example of the first of those two qualities.

With England’s Chris Ashton unable to find his best up to now, the path is opening up for the Scarlets wideman.

Pity Ireland’s Simon Zebo fell to a broken foot because he showed enough in Cardiff on the first weekend to suggest he could have been in the frame. He’s clearly a guy who possesses something of the X-factor.

Pity Tommy Bowe is crocked too, though perhaps such a class operator may yet get into Gatland’s thoughts.

13 MANU TUILAGI

I have him in the jersey Brian O’Driscoll wears, though I think the great Irishman will definitely tour.

It has to be Tuilagi though, the sheer penetration he offers in midfield is so difficult for defences to deal with and if the Lions can launch him at pace down the outside-centre channel he could be devastating on the hard grounds Down Under.

Wales’ Jonathan Davies can force himself right into the equation with good displays against Scotland and England, but I don’t see him as a Test starter unless there are injuries.

12 BRAD BARRITT

Arguably the best defensive centre in the world at the moment, the South African-born Saracens player has been sensational in England’s first three games.

Barritt can make breaks, he can create, but he is also one of the most disciplined players there is and for me he’s clearly in pole.

Jamie Roberts has long been earmarked for this shirt, but he’s lost ground this season having – by his own admission – been short of his best during the Six Nations.

Roberts has time to restate his case, but he’s going to have to get on with it to haul in Barritt.

11. TIM VISSER

The so-called flying Dutchman scored a great try against Italy and his strength, powerful direct running and finishing prowess mean he’s got my vote right now.

I think Alex Cuthbert began the season with a real shout, but, although he improved against Italy, scoring a fine try in the process, he wasn’t at his best in Wales’ first two encounters, the main question marks being about his defence.

Don’t discount Ireland’s Craig Gilroy because he was specifically mentioned by Gatland last autumn as a youngster who is on the Kiwi’s radar.

But the Ulster man, who got his chance because of Bowe’s injury, hasn’t really done enough as yet.

Before we leave the wing berths, don’t write off the possibility of Leigh Halfpenny filling one of them should someone else be preferred at full-back. Space will be found for Halfpenny, come what may.

10. JONATHAN SEXTON

His Six Nations has been curtailed by injury, but I still think he is favourite to get the nod, for all that there is a growing clamour behind Englishman Owen Farrell.

Farrell is maturing with every game and has a deadly boot, but he’s still a bit one-dimensional for me to be trusted to navigate a Lions side against a team with the guile of the Wallabies.

Sexton, at his best, can play it both ways and he’s proved as much on the biggest stage with Leinster and Ireland.

You know what though? I wouldn’t completely rule out Dan Biggar from getting onto the plane on the basis of the way he’s played in the first three games. How he performs in the England match especially will be key.

9. MIKE PHILLIPS

I’ve got Phillips edging this particular race, but not by much.

He’s there for his experience, his defensive capability, his strength and the way he came alive on the last Lions tour.

But you could go for anyone out of England’s Ben Youngs, Ireland’s Conor Murray, Scotland’s Greig Laidlaw or even Danny Care and not be laughed out of court.

It is such an important position that Gatland simply has to get it right, but his task isn’t being made easy at present.

Yet the Kiwi has always been a Phillips fan and to be fair to the Bayonne No.9 he’s had a decent tournament, even if he hasn’t yet set the world on fire.

1. GETHIN JENKINS

It’s been a slow crawl back to something like his best for a guy who toured New Zealand and South Africa with the Lions in 2005 and 2009 respectively.

Jenkins came into the Six Nations with many believing Paul James – absolutely phenomenal as a replacement in Rome last weekend – was the better loosehead option.

But the Toulon prop gave his best display for some time against the Azzurri, though how much he will now be held back by a calf strain is unclear.

Irishman Cian Healy blotted his copybook with an indisciplined display against England, though could still easily get Gatland’s vote.

Though I believe James has to be a serious option as well.

2. RORY BEST

Arguably the safest bet of the lot at the moment, his form as part of an Ireland team that admittedly has lost its way after beating Wales has been top drawer.

Best gave a bit of a masterclass at the Millennium Stadium last month, and I put him comfortably ahead of his rivals.

Who are they? Well, English pair Dylan Hartley and Tom Youngs have to be in with a shout and there’s Richard Hibbard too.

Hibbard has been so-so after missing the first match in Cardiff and must really step it up at Murrayfield and against England to get himself in contention.

3. ADAM JONES

One position that looks like a straight fight between two players – Jones and England’s Dan Cole.

Like Jenkins, Jones has found himself in the extremely unusual position of being criticised this winter, with his own forwards coach Robin McBryde expressing disappointment with the Welsh scrum ahead of the Italian clash.

But how Jones answered those critics in Rome, anchoring a visiting eight which pulverised Italy in the set-piece at times.

It was reaffirmation that he remains the most belligerent tighthead on offer to Gatland, but if Cole isn’t level-pegging with the Ospreys powerhouse then the difference between them is cigarette paper.

The Englishman offers more around the park than his rival and has real pedigree so may yet nudge ahead here.

4. JOE LAUNCHBURY

Really came to prominence during England’s autumn campaign and looks set to be a Test mainstay for England for years to come given that he’s only 21.

Getting Lions recognition would mark a meteoric rise, but he’s on target having followed up his November form well during the Six Nations.

Launchbury is tall, rangy, athletic, durable even if he not as imposing a specimen as, say Martin Johnson. But then again, who is?

Launchbury gets through a lot of great work at the breakdown. He’s usurped the highly-rated Courtney Lawes which says it all.

Alun Wyn Jones, who will be fresh after a long spell out injured, is bound to have a say, but I have him firmly behind Launchbury just now, even though he is the guy with the experience.

There’s also Richie Gray, but I don’t see enough outside of his mop of blond hair that marks him out sufficiently.

5. GEOFF PARLING

With Paul O’Connell having been out for so long following back surgery, you have to think the English pair should be combined at second row on current evidence.

Parling is more of a lineout king than Launchbury, but he also makes a huge contribution with his general workload around the field.

Parling and Launchbury are the perfect combination because they each offer different things.

Gatland is bound to monitor O’Connell, but I just think even for someone with his experience it is going to be a big ask now.

Ireland’s Donncha Ryan must be in the shake-up to some degree as well, and our own Ian Evans has to be worth a look.

6. SEAN O’BRIEN

It’s O’Brien in his most natural berth here, though I think Ryan Jones’ re-emergence makes him a definite option – and don’t rule out Dan Lydiate totally either.

O’Brien’s blend of aggression, barrel-chested power and leg speed should be dynamite on the Australian fast-tracks, but Jones has shown he has petrol left in his tank, not least by his display against France.

Lydiate has obviously missed most of the season with a broken ankle, but he is so highly rated by Gatland that the New Zealander is bound to monitor him playing for the Dragons between the end of the Six Nations and his squad announcement.

We mustn’t forget England’s Tom Croft either. He’s back from a serious neck injury and again, on the dry surfaces of Australia, would, back to his best, be formidable.

Kelly Brown is also mounting a case through his form in Scotland’s revival.

7. CHRIS ROBSHAW

Began the season firmly back in the pecking order, but has led England with distinction and shown that he does have the abilities blessed of genuine openside flankers.

Robshaw is there on form, but potentially I see Sam Warburton as a better specialist No.7, Justin Tipuric as well.

Both those Welshmen are in with a shout, though it’s probably unlikely both will go.

I’d put Warburton ahead of the Ospreys man, but he needs two brilliant displays to finish the Six Nations and he may not even get into the Wales team. I can’t see him bolstering his case in Blues colours when his region won’t be involved in any high-profile games.

8. JOHNNIE BEATTIE

Mightily impressive in Scotland’s win against Ireland, Beattie is a tough cookie and a great ball-carrier.

I’d put him just ahead of Toby Faletau on current form.

The Welsh No.8 has had a good championship and will surely be in the squad shake-up, but interestingly Ireland’s Jamie Heaslip has done himself few favours.

He was being tipped as a potential Test captain before the Six Nations began and he obviously still has tons of class.

But, like Warburton, he’s not at his best at the moment.

England’s Tom Wood is also a strong contender, a player who is finally showing sustained class after some wretched luck with injuries.



Read more: Wales Online http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynation/rugby-columnists/2013/03/03/delme-parfitt-my-lions-test-xv-as-the-six-nations-finale-closes-in-91466-32911296/#ixzz2MqRUFtYE

I like Biggar too. He is very reliable and I would have him on the plane with Sexton and Farrell is you can pick three OHs. Sexton can also cover 1st centre.

GunsGerms wrote:I like Biggar too. He is very reliable and I would have him on the plane with Sexton and Farrell is you can pick three OHs. Sexton can also cover 1st centre.

He was very good in italy doing a lot of extra work for the team. He turned over ball, defended superbly and did the basics very well.

I do feel he hasnt the passing game or timing that Priestland or Hook have but he is becoming a very good flyhalf.

GunsGerms wrote:I like Biggar too. He is very reliable and I would have him on the plane with Sexton and Farrell is you can pick three OHs. Sexton can also cover 1st centre.

We would have to take 3 fly halfs (halves?) surely? Someone will always get clattered in the dirt tracker games.

If that's true, then I agree that they should be Sexton, Farrell and Biggar. Not convinced about Flood.

George Carlin wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:I like Biggar too. He is very reliable and I would have him on the plane with Sexton and Farrell is you can pick three OHs. Sexton can also cover 1st centre.

We would have to take 3 fly halfs (halves?) surely? Someone will always get clattered in the dirt tracker games.

If that's true, then I agree that they should be Sexton, Farrell and Biggar. Not convinced about Flood.

I am more convinced of Flood than Farrell by a country mile. I still think Flood is a better started than Sexton. Farrell is a great goal kicker but not a good enough flyhalf to make the tour.

Sexton, Flood and Biggar.

I'd be worried about Biggar's temperament.

Sexton, Farrell and Flood gives a range of options. Biggar is just Farrell-lite anyway.

I thought Priestland was going to turn into an excellent player but a huge loss of confidence and injury has really stalled his career.

George Carlin wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:I like Biggar too. He is very reliable and I would have him on the plane with Sexton and Farrell is you can pick three OHs. Sexton can also cover 1st centre.

We would have to take 3 fly halfs (halves?) surely? Someone will always get clattered in the dirt tracker games.

If that's true, then I agree that they should be Sexton, Farrell and Biggar. Not convinced about Flood.

George - good to see someone with the grammatical awareness to use the correct plural of Fly-half. Fly-halfs is correct in the same way that Metcalfs is the plural of Metcalf. However no-one uses this and Fly-halves has become the acceptable norm.

Regarding the Lions' 10, Sexton and Farrell will be the starter/bench, so extra cover will have to be a player who also plays elsewhere. Laidlaw is the most likely third cover because of his place-kicking.

maestegmafia wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:I like Biggar too. He is very reliable and I would have him on the plane with Sexton and Farrell is you can pick three OHs. Sexton can also cover 1st centre.

We would have to take 3 fly halfs (halves?) surely? Someone will always get clattered in the dirt tracker games.

If that's true, then I agree that they should be Sexton, Farrell and Biggar. Not convinced about Flood.

I am more convinced of Flood than Farrell by a country mile. I still think Flood is a better started than Sexton. Farrell is a great goal kicker but not a good enough flyhalf to make the tour.

Sexton, Flood and Biggar.

That's true Maes - it's just that Farrell is so darn fashionable at the moment it's going to be impossible for him not to travel.

Even with his 'Guile from Streetfighter' haircut.