Time to move from Heineken Cup to European League?

Ongoing disputes over the Heineken Cup, club rugby struggling in Wales and Scotland due to lack of investment, money and incompetance, the Celtic League lacking intensity. How would people feel about abandoning the Heineken Cup and domestic leagues in favour of a full two tiered All European club rugby league featuring all of the 6 Nations and involving cooperation from all 6 rugby unions? No more splitting time between domestic leagues and European Cup rugby, but having it all as one and the same. What do people think?

Gordy,

I would like it to see something like this but it will never happen due to self interest in certain RUs

I think the thing that makes the Heineken Cup so special is that you only rarely play sides from other leagues and it's a "special" occasion coming up against, say, a French powerhouse like Toulouse.

Also, it would be a real shame to lose (or dilute) the traditional rivalries you get in the domestic leagues by mixing everyone together in one pot.

How about travelling fans? Most folk can afford the odd nice trip out to somewhere in France or Italy a couple of times a season but not week-in week-out. Domestic leagues (well not so much the multinational Pro12) allow you the option of attending more away games. You're cutting down the potential number of supporters for away games and possibly affecting match atmospheres.

Things might not be perfect as they are but I wouldn't welcome a European Super League.

I'm coming from the point of view of an English fan who watches mainly Aviva Premiership and bit of Pro12 and Top14.

Why? The only reason this would happen is if you were unhappy with you league. I think most English club fans are happy with the Jeff. The French seem happy with theirs. It sounds like most PRO12 supporters are happy with their league...so what would be the point.

I agree with Hammer. We're happy in our personal leagues and they are manageable (even given that two of our sides in Pro12 operate about 900 miles from most of us.)

The good thing about HEC is that it isn't a league but a relatively concentrated crash course in putting your best foot forward - or trying to. It retains its exotic nature because the sides that meet are not always so familiar with each other and that can always keep things interesting.

Trust me, 5 minutes in a multi national league where flying is the only method of travel to away games, where stadiums are poorly visited, and games pretty meaningless and you'll wish you hadn't opened your mouth...

thebluesmancometh wrote:Trust me, 5 minutes in a multi national league where flying is the only method of travel to away games, where stadiums are poorly visited, and games pretty meaningless and you'll wish you hadn't opened your mouth...

Sounds like the Rabbo Pro 12 except with full strength teams to be honest.

...so it's back to an AP v Pro12 thread? That was quick

thebluesmancometh wrote:where stadiums are poorly visited...

This is one of those disparities which have raised an eye-brow for me through out R1 this year. Regardless of who's playing, put all those arguements aside for one minute, in the south of France there was an attendances of 28,000. On the flip side there was barely over 6K in Murrayfield.

I think these differences would be highlighted even more by a European league.

AlastairW wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:where stadiums are poorly visited...

This is one of those disparities which have raised an eye-brow for me through out R1 this year. Regardless of who's playing, put all those arguements aside for one minute, in the south of France there was an attendances of 28,000. On the flip side there was barely over 6K in Murrayfield.

I think these differences would be highlighted even more by a European league.

I went to Toulon last year for the Amlin QF, and it was a real eye-opener. Rugby really is at the heart of the community - literally (the stadium backs onto the civic centre) and metaphorically (buses were alternating their destination with "Allez les RCT" and "Welcome Harlequins"). If rugby in the British Isles ever reaches that level of commitment then we might be able to talk about a super-league (but by the same token probably wouldn't need one).

At the start of European rugby when structures were being discussed a european league was suggested but unsurprisingly the English teams did not want to join in. the result was what is now the rabo.

It won't happen because you would have to mix private clubs and Union franchises, which would cause issues. We have seen it with the 9 match HC competition - imagine the issues with a 20+ fixture season....

It's an interesting concept and one that I have heard mentioned by Shane Logan (Ulster Rugby CE) in the past. It works well in the SH with Super 15's and that includes a lot of travel. I wouldn't distance myself from the idea.

I'm not sure the English clubs would like being in the second tier though

Seriously....I'll keep an open mind but I thing the obstacles are too big to overcome.

Poorfour wrote:

AlastairW wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:where stadiums are poorly visited...

This is one of those disparities which have raised an eye-brow for me through out R1 this year. Regardless of who's playing, put all those arguements aside for one minute, in the south of France there was an attendances of 28,000. On the flip side there was barely over 6K in Murrayfield.

I think these differences would be highlighted even more by a European league.

I went to Toulon last year for the Amlin QF, and it was a real eye-opener. Rugby really is at the heart of the community - literally (the stadium backs onto the civic centre) and metaphorically (buses were alternating their destination with "Allez les RCT" and "Welcome Harlequins"). If rugby in the British Isles ever reaches that level of commitment then we might be able to talk about a super-league (but by the same token probably wouldn't need one).

Sounds like a good excuse to get myself to the south of France Poorfour

Obviously i'd like a home QF, but if we manage (fingers crossed!) to play an away match in France as things start getting warmer, it would be a great excuse to go down for a long weekend. A few of the weekends pre-match snippets were a real eye opener as to how much the French love their Rugby down there.

TJ wrote:At the start of European rugby when structures were being discussed a european league was suggested but unsurprisingly the English teams did not want to join in. the result was what is now the rabo.

In a league noramlly over a period of time you see the top teams consistanly finish at the top, (tigers in every final, Leinster not been below 3rd since 2004, etc etc) there is some changability but takes time.

In a european league the same would happen, and it would go a little stale, with the current format, the top teams don't constantly finish top and there is more rotation of who the top teams are Domestic leagues, and best of the best European cup, keeps it Fresh.