Wilko for the British & Irish LIONS

First topic message reminder :

After yesterday and previous form his shown this season and 'if' his fit then he'll be on the plane IMHO, maybe as cover and the midweek squad but he'll be there.

Still a class act when he has quality players around him, and his in a different league to all the other NH No10s.

WORLD CLASS.

maestegmafia wrote:

I was referring to your, as in the masses not solely HERSH. Apologies but I thought that was pretty clear

HERSH wrote:Don't worry Toadfish I'm sure the Mods will see it at some point, Mae does seems to have a problem with me being on 606v2.

HERSH please report me, I keep telling you. If you really think I am breaking the House Rules in anyway, report me.

I have not heard from any moderators in reflection to anything you have said you would report me for...???

It appears you are trying very hard to paint me with a reputation to equal your own. Your reputation is more likely to look like "the boy crying wolf", than be seen as anyones genuine concern.

Well that’s a bit strange as on that bases you seem to be contradicting yourself as here your opinion seems to be that you want JW to go?

glamorganalun wrote:I voted yes as he is a safe and does everything Preistland can't i.e., kick goals, in field kicking, drop kicks, tackle the rest they are on a par. JW in the squad to keep Preistland out, please.

Poor form to use two random quotes of others as a rebuttal to a different posters point of view. Surprisingly enough we don't all think as a collective. I even managed to choose a sandwich just now all by myself.

As to original topic I voted 'yes'.
Jonny would be a great addition as a squad player, to help out the youngsters.
And he has the power to drop Aussie heads when they see him come on to close out a game.

I don't think he will make the test team so there's no point taking him. Barring injury or a nosedive in form, Halfpenny is a dead-cert for test squad so that'll make Priestland's inclusion easier, although I would expect Sexton and Flood to be in line before Priestland at this rate.

Spot on Gregortree, It was always going to be a close poll due to the fact some people don't want any English players in the Lions team.

Toadfish wrote:Well that’s a bit strange as on that bases you seem to be contradicting yourself as here your opinion seems to be that you want JW to go?

If he is one of the top flyhalfs' available to us when the squad is selected then yes he should go. Though his club form will have to be superb as he won't be playing international rugby before the squad are selected.

He is playing well at Toulon, he has always played well for Toulon. He wasn't playing well for England prior to his retirement and maybe that is because he doesn't have the pace, stamina or skills for international rugby anymore.

It is hard to judge a player not facing top International opposition on whether they have the ability to do so anymore. It is more likely that anyone selected for the Lions will be selected on their performances in the AI's and Six Nations, rather than solely on club form. Hense his club form will have to be superb too get a look in.

He looked like he had the pace, stamina and skills at the weekend but then again it was only the Blues.

It's not like they have any top International players playing for them!

HERSH wrote:He looked like he had the pace, stamina and skills at the weekend but then again it was only the Blues.

It's not like they have any top International players playing for them!

Wow, that is a pathetic response, though a predictable one.

Judging by that response I take it you didn't see the Blues v Toulon game.

He was very controlled in everything that he did, plus surround him with world class talent and he is still as good as Dan Carter and would certainly be a handful for the Aussies next summer.

Only Sexton and maybe Flood are ahead of him for the Lions No10 shirt at the present.

IMO

HERSH wrote:Judging by that response I take it you didn't see the Blues v Toulon game.

He was very controlled in everything that he did, plus surround him with world class talent and he is still as good as Dan Carter and would certainly be a handful for the Aussies next summer.

Only Sexton and maybe Flood are ahead of him for the Lions No10 shirt at the present.

IMO

And regarding your dismissal of any of the Grandslam winning Lions and "potential" Lions that are Welsh, not being "top International players"...?

HERSH wrote:He looked like he had the pace, stamina and skills at the weekend but then again it was only the Blues.

It's not like they have any top International players playing for them!

You claim not to be WUM whilst constantly making digs like that...?

Did you miss the at the end, lighten up Mae.

You said he doesn't have the 'pace, stamina or skill to play International rugby anymore'

I was merely pointing out he was playing against very good Welsh Internationals some of whom will be on the Lions Tour, yet he never looked out of place on Sunday, in fact I'd say it the best I've seen him play for many years.

Maybe he enjoys hostile atmospheres, so there is another reason to select him for the Lions in Aus.

HERSH wrote:
I was merely pointing out he was playing against very good Welsh Internationals some of whom will be on the Lions Tour,

You Said

HERSH wrote:He looked like he had the pace, stamina and skills at the weekend but then again it was only the Blues.

It's not like they have any top International players playing for them!

Do these two always go on like this?

I didn't see the HC game at the w/e. I did see him the last few times in an England shirt, and (agreeing with Maes) Jonny seemed well off colour and tired back then. But that was some time ago and he since seems to have discovered a 2nd (or is that a 3rd ?) wind at Toulon, and going on Hersh's comments, seems a whole lot fresher and sharper again these days. We should not dismiss his totemic value either. He might not be the first even 2nd choice on a BL team sheet , but could be an invaluable psychological weapon for the B&I. Esp if we take a 'Sir Clive' size of squad to

I guess some people lack a sense of humour on a Tuesday.

Once again Mae did you miss the which sort of implies its tongue in cheek mate.

HERSH wrote:I guess some people lack a sense of humour on a Tuesday.

Once again Mae did you miss the which sort of implies its tongue in cheek mate.

Sorry I haven't a clue what smilies mean, next time I'll ask my teenage grand daughter...!

that said, your response just ratifies exactly what your intended message was. That you think established welsh players are untalented and not a worthy test of Wilko...!

Wow, that is a pathetic response, though a predictable one.

he is still as good as Dan Carter!!!!!!!!

I doubt that there is anything anyone could say to add to this argument now.

Technically yes, the time he seemed to have on the ball to offload passes was the Wilko of old.

Pure class = world class

Don't get me wrong, Wilko won't win the series on his own he needs good solid players around him but he could contribute considerably to a series win, certainly more than an angry poster with a chip on their shoulder could to this discussion.

Come on Mae lets shake and make up, Lifes too short after all.

Can't say I didn't try.

well that sure shut things up

I don't think I'll be on Maes Xmas card list.

gregortree wrote: well that sure shut things up

no i just put the lamentable HERSH back on ignore, he still has no relevant contribution to this forum whatsoever and only uses it to try and annoy other members.

I take that as a no then Mae?

But just remember who was being rude to whom!

Seeing as you call yourself a rugby fan I always offer a hand of friendship and will happily discuss and debate subjects with you, as that what our great sport is about at the end of the day.

Shame really that some guys just can't accept that others will always have different points of view than their own beliefs.

Avalon wrote:Do these two always go on like this?

Nah HERSH usually gets on well with the Welsh boys .

I think its because I'm only part Welsh why some take a dislike to me?

They keep nibbling at your bait Hersh then get mad at you. Try less bait.

This was a perfectly sensible discussion until someone decided to make it a Wales v England debate once again.

I just don't understand why they do it?

Anyway back on topic I'd say 56% was a pretty good return on this subject, I don't think anyone expects Wilko to be the 1st or 2nd choice No10 but he shouldn't be over looked just because he has retired from England.

I'm sure even Gatland would like to wind the Aussies up a bit being a Kiwi by selecting Wilko.

HERSH wrote:This was a perfectly sensible discussion until someone decided to make it a Wales v England debate once again.

I just don't understand why they do it?

Yes you did.

Firstly here:-

HERSH wrote:Not true.

Priestland looks below average at the moment with good players around him.

The secondly again here:-

HERSH wrote:He looked like he had the pace, stamina and skills at the weekend but then again it was only the Blues.

It's not like they have any top International players playing for them!

I thought you weren't reading my comments Mae?

So what you're saying is that I'm not allowed to discuss Priestland poor form?

That's strange seeing as plenty of other people are discussing Priestlands poor form yet you say nothing to them.


Also you're missing something from this next comment!

"He looked like he had the pace, stamina and skills at the weekend but then again it was only the Blues.

It's not like they have any top International players playing for them! "

Oh thats right it was a at the end of it, which as already pointed out to you was tongue in cheek seeing as Wilko looked very comfortable playing against top Welsh internationals and more than likely Lions at the weekend.

Poor argument Mae

Who keeps voting "NO"?

There are a lot of Wilko haters out there.

Who keeps voting "NO"?

I voted no once. I do not believe he will be good enough. His club form in a very strong team is decent - as it was when MJ recalled him and he was dire. Surely I am entitled to this opinion without people suggesting that means I am either stupid or full of hate?

But surely the Lions will be a strong team Tiger?

Wilko is an admirable guy / player who has put so many to the sword over the years. So he is often admired / hated often by the same individuals in a schizoid kind of way. All great players (of the 'other' nation) provoke the paradox of admiration / hate reactions from true rugby fans. I'm thinking e.g. Richie McCaw, although there are plenty of other examples too.
Wilko still has the mojo to strike fear among the Aussies.

I do not believe that Wilkinson is good enough any more to feature for the Lions - certainly not the Test team - no matter how strong they are. I believe his club form flatters his current abilities. As a coach I would not be prepared to take such a risk on such a pivotal position. I would want to see if he can still perform at International level first - especially as his more recent performances on the International stage were poor.

Feels to me that people want him to play because they are worried about the form of the more realistic challengers. I do understand why people may suggest it - just I cannot agree that he is a sensible choice.

Did you not see him at the weekend?

His abilities are fine believe me, as a coach you'd be crazy not to look at him.

Stick him in the All Blacks team and you'd be hard pushed to see the difference between him and Carter.

HERSH wrote:Stick him in the All Blacks team and you'd be hard pushed to see the difference between him and Donald.

fixed that for you After all they are both RWC winners.


Put Dan Carter in the Toulon team and then you would get real magic.

Easy Tigerrrrrr,

And remember we're only playing Aus!

HERSH wrote:
He was very controlled in everything that he did, plus surround him with world class talent and he is still as good as Dan Carter and would certainly be a handful for the Aussies next summer.

That is the most rediculous thing I have ever heard. Wilkinson is a very good fly half. But to be honest his name can't even be mentioned in the same breath as Dan Carter who is without a doubt the best international 10 there has ever been.

HERSH wrote:Easy Tigerrrrrr,

And remember we're only playing Aus!

...and don't forget we're only playing "bits & bobs" players from the lesser ranked nations.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

HERSH wrote:
He was very controlled in everything that he did, plus surround him with world class talent and he is still as good as Dan Carter and would certainly be a handful for the Aussies next summer.

That is the most rediculous thing I have ever heard. Wilkinson is a very good fly half. But to be honest his name can't even be mentioned in the same breath as Dan Carter who is without a doubt the best international 10 there has ever been.

But you're going to say that aren't you!

Linebreaker wrote:

HERSH wrote:Easy Tigerrrrrr,

And remember we're only playing Aus!

...and don't forget we're only playing "bits & bobs" players from the lesser ranked nations.

True it's not like Scotland could beat Aus in their own back yard.

Nor Samoa.

However, you must acknowledge the fact that such losses only occur about once every 28-39 years or so.

No, he's not good enough.

Why is he not good enough?

Because he didn't perform well in the 2011 RWC?

Was that down to Wilko?

I'd say that was down to the attitude of the players around him and poor tactics from MJ & Co?

HERSH wrote:Why is he not good enough?

Because he didn't perform well in the 2011 RWC?

Was that down to Wilko?

I'd say that was down to the attitude of the players around him and poor tactics from MJ & Co?

He's not good enough because Hodgeson, Flood, Farrell and perhaps even Cipriani (of he can recover enough form) are all better options for England let alone the Lions.

Flood IMO is one of the form 10s in the NH at the moment and I think the Lions 10 choice by the end of the 6N will be a coin toss between him at Sexton.

I agree about England we have to look to the future, but the Lions Tour in Aus is a totally different prospect than that of a normal International. Experience, a cool temperament and a level head under pressure will be needed.

Flood and Sexton are both ahead of Wilko at the moment but what if they get injured before the tour, then what Preistland, Farrell, Cips, Parks??????

Give me Wilko any day over these guys. I seem to remember when Wilko came back from a long injury lay off against Scotland he did ok.