Sir Wilson Whineray dies

Sad news in NZ with the passing of Sir Wilson Whineray. A respected captain and a humble guy. Condolences to his family. A name that will forever survive in the rugby journals: http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/7847665/Sir-Wilson-Whineray-dies-age-77

Yes one of the greats of Auckland and All Black rugby. Condolences to family and friends.

Certainly a life fully lived, the captain of one of the great tours in 1963-64 of Great Britain.

He was a great of the game. Sad news

I saw the news this morning and was waiting for a Kiwi to post.

He was before my time, but in the books I read as a kid, and articles by people like Carwyn James and Bill McClaren he was always hailed a s a great and innovative captain.

He was one of the good 'uns

to you Sir W.

Sir Wilson Whineray a great Captain of the AllBlacks and afterwards as an adminstrator.Part of the Great Auckland 1960`s Ranfurly Shield side
Captained by Bob Graham[or Ross not sure which] team included Frank Colthurst,Pat Walsh,Mac Herewini,Des Connor,Waka Nathan,Kel Tremain,Paul Little and Malcom Dick.Great footballing Skills cross kicks,drop goals he could do the lot
played both Prop and Number 8 for the All Blacks.A great Captain indifferent prop at Test Level.Capped Australia 1957 2-0.then as Captain Australia 1958 2-1,Lions 1959 3-1,SA 1960 1-1-2France3-0 1961 ,Europe 1963-4 4-1-0,
missed Australia 1964,SA 1965 3-1.
He was a member of one of a series of the greatest AllBlacks sides ever including
Ron Hemi,Dad Young,Nev McEwan,Nathan,Gray,Tremain.Lochore,Herewini,Connor,Laidlaw.Kirton,Walsh,Clarke Brothers,Meads Brothers,Adrian Clarke,Caulton,Little,Dick,John Graham,MickWilliment.Peter Hilton -Jones a lot of talent in there.
Passed away aged 77 Rest in Peace.

One of the Grand Old Men of rugby.
He and his 1963 colleagues taught little me great and eternal respect for the ABs.
RIP and thank you for everything, WW.

A long-time Cardiff and Wales supporter, I was at the Arms Park in 1964 when the All Blacks beat the Barbarians in the last match of their tour under Wilson Whineray's captaincy.

It was a real walloping for the Baa-Baas. If memory serves me right, the All Blacks scored over 30 points in the second half after leading at half-time. That was a massive score for those days (a try worth 3 points).

Amidst the welter of points-scoring by the All Blacks, Whineray galloped 25 yards and sidestepped the last defender for a try near the posts - very unusual for a prop back then. It drew the biggest cheer of the day from a generous crowd.

At the end of the game, he was chaired off the field by a crowd of players and fans, whilst many people sang "For He's A Jolly Good Fellow". That sounds unlikely nowadays, but it really happened. I've never forgotten Whineray's try!

Knowing props optimist by the time he got to the changing sheds 25 yards had become a length of the field try. Nice story.

That try's played quite often.

It was actually a huge dummy he threw to the left to run around near the posts.

Quite an eventful match that one. Ian Clarke-invited to play for the Baabaas- got the Baabaas only points when he droped a goal from a mark on or about the 25 yard line after an AB drop out(as you could in those days).

36-3 from memory...

Taylorman in that you are correct also Don Clarke who after injuring a hamstring
lost his goal kicking .BUT it returned for this match and was back to his best versus Australia 1964 his last year.Sir Wilson was also honoured by a lineout peel move " The Willee Away" involving him from the front or Tremain from the rear peeling around front or rear of Lineout.

Taylorman wrote:That try's played quite often.

It was actually a huge dummy he threw to the left to run around near the posts.

Quite an eventful match that one. Ian Clarke-invited to play for the Baabaas- got the Baabaas only points when he droped a goal from a mark on or about the 25 yard line after an AB drop out(as you could in those days).

36-3 from memory...

It looked like a short sidestep to the right from the terrace where I was standing, but, having just now seen the video of Whineray's try I agree you're dead right that he actually sold an outrageous dummy to the left. For 48 years I've had a slightly incorrect memory of those few seconds' play - not that it takes anything away from the try!

Unfortunately he is the 3rd great past All Black captain to pass away this year,Jock Hobbs and Fred Allen being the other 2. RIP to all 3 great men

optimist wrote:

Taylorman wrote:That try's played quite often.

It was actually a huge dummy he threw to the left to run around near the posts.

Quite an eventful match that one. Ian Clarke-invited to play for the Baabaas- got the Baabaas only points when he droped a goal from a mark on or about the 25 yard line after an AB drop out(as you could in those days).

36-3 from memory...

It looked like a short sidestep to the right from the terrace where I was standing, but, having just now seen the video of Whineray's try I agree you're dead right that he actually sold an outrageous dummy to the left. For 48 years I've had a slightly incorrect memory of those few seconds' play - not that it takes anything away from the try!

Heck at least you were there...that match is regularly flashed across our screens here- I was born that year so its all black and white replays for me.
Probably the last great tour up there for the ABs if we can dismiss the 72-73 one- probably our worst for many reasons- Murdoch, the France loss and several Counties losses...

Taylorman

I agree, it was a great All Blacks touring side - playing many more games than modern tours, spread over about 5 months.

The Barbarians match at the end of the tour was in Feb 1964, but I was also at the match against Newport in October 1963. It was the only tour game the All Blacks lost - a drop goal to nil. Maybe they were caught cold as it was not long after the tour started.

John Uzzell, the centre who dropped Newport's goal, was a PE student at Loughborough Colleges and played without asking the college's permission, which apparently he should have done.

I never played senior club rugby, but recall being in an inter-schools match a few years before the tour game, when Uzzell was on the other side.

I972-3 was marginally worse than 1953-4 and the Greats had gone Whineray,Meads, Tremain,Gray to name a few.There replacements were not of the same calibre and they played a different style.The 1970`s was the era when NH Coaches outstripped there SH counterparts.
Newport was not an accident for them there discipline was such Don Clarke did`nt have single kickable chance.In the previous two he had contributed about 50 points.Also in those days a Tour totalled 36 matches and it was a case of everyone getting game time.For Example Earl Kirton a later great 5/8 was the third string and 19 years old.Like many of the backs there for development Laidlaw,himself,Ian Macrae,Bill Davis,etc.
ManyTouring team s got caught cold early on 1951 Boks a Counties side first up
1956 Waikato,1965 Welligton and Auckland etc.

Yes I heard a story about more recent AB side visiting the Newport club where there's a picture of a glorious day with the ball soaring high through the posts for the 3-0 win where I think Kirton it was said he recalls the day as cold wet and windy where the drop goal was almost a fluffed kick, scraggling over the crossbar...but kirton always did tend to put a different spin on things...

Taylorman

The day was actually as Kirton described it and the dropped goal only just made it! Uzzell dropped the goal but it was Newport's pack, especially Glyn Davidge at No 8, and Dai Watkins's tactical kicking at fly-half, which laid the foundations for the win.

I think the absence of these big tours, the midweek touring sides, the combined xv and county sides and the chance for many of the smaller towns and regions to get out and see, greet and even beat teams like the ABs distances the teams from the every day fan and thats a real tragedy.

The focus on professionalism, winning a tournament, doing more in less time has relegated these matches out of the equation for time and cost reasons alone.

The nearest to it these days is when we host a World cup where towns like Nelson, where a test has never been played get to to host the Russian team for the duration of the event, the whole town getting involved.

For me the thing that sparked my interest in rugby was the Lions in 1977. By tours end I knew every player, their club, country and I think family's names and dates of birth. I still know every score of the tour by heart today and who scored what in probably half of them, certainly the tests.

In the three months of the tour I got to learn the entire history of the AB's like never before, where previously Id watched mainly 'because my Dad did'. At 14 I also took a keener interest in playing and sport in general.

I think Alan's (Emach) said many times the 53-54 AB tour has also has a similar impact on him so I think todays generation of followers really do miss out on what can have a profound impact on young lives- for many of us for the rest of our lives and thats a shame.

The long tours did a lot in bringing out the human sides to these teams in ways that the locked up/ structured access to the players and tests that todays matches do. Sure we get more, better, faster etc... but somehow its just not the way mum used to make it and why Whinerays side and others like it really do deserve there place in history, living legends so to speak.

Approximately 40 years ago I was an openside/No.8 in my college's first xv in Auckland, we had a brilliant coach, he had played as a back and All Black trialist, he used to invite certain ex players to do a weeks training with us forwards so that our tutelage continued.

After the annual fixture against Auckland Grammar was over, Wilson Whineray was invited along to come along and take us forwards for a week.

The great man was a perfectionist and no small detail in preparation was ever overlooked, especially when it ever came to anything involving the front row.one of his pet issues was the importance of the props inside arm binds on the hooker, as to loose tightness in this area meant the power from the rear five was dissipated.

He would never condone the laziness of a prop just binding on to a hookers jersey, in the great mans eyes the bind had to contain an element of both jersey and the waistband of the shorts to achieve greater purchase, but not only that, he reckoned there was no harm in grabbing a hunk of the hookers skin as well.

Well this really tickled the mischief streak in our props, and they didnt have to be told twice, for the remainder of the training session there was this constant series of yelps and swearing from our hookers every time a new scrum went down.

Whineray was a master craftsman of the game of rugby..

Auckland Laurie that is very interesting as Sir Wilson was not considered a test class Prop.He was a very great player with all the skills,but not a great Tight forward.Remember he played in an era when a NZ pack at all levels was an 8 man unit in attack and defence.It was said you could throw a blanket over an AB pack.Tours sadly will never return and the major ones included stops to Australia and often Canada for Lions and Boks.
VERY few tours of the 36 match variety went undefeated because every player was given a game.The Provinces softened up the tourists before the Test matches.Most meant travel half way around the world by sea and took 6 months to complete.