Rabo PRO12 (Round 7): Ulster (away) v Dragons at Rodney Parade Friday 26th October

First topic message reminder :

Roger Wilson and Declan Fitzpatrick have been named in the extended Ulster squad for Friday's RaboDirect PRO12 game against Dragons at Rodney Parade (kick off 7.05pm).

It is the first time Wilson has been named in a preliminary squad since his return to Ulster, having suffered a hamstring tear playing for Northampton Saints at the end of last season. The number 8 has enjoyed impressive outings for the Ravens in recent weeks and scored two tries in Sunday’s loss to Bristol.
Fitzpatrick had suffered a reoccurrence of a medial ligament injury prior to the Connacht match earlier this month but has undertaken full training over the past week and will be hopeful of getting much needed game time.

Stephen Ferris has been included after missing the last two games with a back injury, while flyhalf Niall O’Connor has also been added to the panel.

Johann Muller has been ruled out for eight weeks after sustaining a thumb injury in Friday’s Heineken Cup win over Glasgow. Ireland international back row Chris Henry will captain the side in Muller’s absence.

Ulster continue to set the pace at the top of the PRO12 table, and still possess a 100% winning record in all competitions this season. The Ulstermen have won five of their last six fixtures with Welsh regions and have been victorious on their two visits to Wales so far this campaign.

Dragons’ only win in their last seven matches in all competitions was 32-12 at home to Edinburgh in round five of the league. The Welsh outfit have an even worse record against Irish provinces, winning just one of their last 14 encounters. That success did come over Ulster though, just over 12 months ago when they registered a 22-9 win at Rodney Parade. The Ulstermen have managed only one victory at Rodney Parade since 2006.

ULSTER SQUAD TO FACE DRAGONS, RABODIRECT PRO12, FRI 26TH OCTOBER, RODNEY PARADE (7.05PM):

FORWARDS (15):

Rory Best, Nigel Brady, Tom Court, Callum Black, Declan Fitzpatrick, Adam Macklin, John Afoa, Lewis Stevenson, Dan Tuohy, Iain Henderson, Stephen Ferris, Mike McComish, Chris Henry (capt), Nick Williams, Roger Wilson.

BACKS (11):

Paul Marshall, Ruan Pienaar, Niall O’Connor, Paddy Jackson, Paddy Wallace, Luke Marshall, Darren Cave, Andrew Trimble, Tommy Bowe, Craig Gilroy, Jared Payne.

Dragons team to face Ulster:

Tom Prydie, Will Harries, Adam Hughes, Andy Tuilagi, Tonderai Chavhanga, Lewis Robling, Jonathan Evans, Owen Evans, Steve Jones (c), Nathan Buck, Adam Jones, Rob Sidoli, Tom Brown, Jevon Groves, Toby Faletau.

Replacements;
Sam Parry, Nathan Williams, Dan Way, Ian Nimmo, Nic Cudd, Liam Davies, Steffan Jones, Pat Leach.

Your probably right Rodders, let it slide and then reverse the tanking of last year in a repeat of the Heineken Final except at the Aviva. That'll do nicely.

MrsP wrote:Clive,

What is all the talk of 15 games?

Why 15?

Leinster on 21st December would be our 15th game of the season MrsP

Well yes getting them in Europe would be nice....

No I get what your saying though. Certainly in terms of league games beating the other provinces, especially Leinster given our record against them, is as big as it gets. This is the biggest league game of the season so far for sure.

I suppose though I would (almost) never place more importance on a league game over a Heino game, especially given the significance of the Saints games.... plus I haven't forgot that the fiecers knocked us out in that QF a few seasons ago....

Think NoC should start, if building confidence away from home is the next best after Ravens, the Ravenhill crowd can ad more pressure when it may not be best.

With Pienaarbeside him and taking th eplace kicks. I'd hope the pressure if off and he can have a good game, also start him away to Zebre as well. Build him up slowly, but we do need to rest Jackson, and Pienaar for at least one game before Saints double header.

clivemcl wrote:

MrsP wrote:Clive,

What is all the talk of 15 games?

Why 15?

Leinster on 21st December would be our 15th game of the season MrsP

With you now!

I don't think we should get hung up on a winning run. Just go out and try to win each game and hope that we have enough points at the business end of the season to give us a chance of silverware!

Why it comes to importance, its only fair a H-cup game thats precent over a leauge game.

In the league you can slip up and still win it, with play offs you can slip up a few times. In H-cup one slip up and you cold be out. Thats why H-cup games are more important. However I really really want to beat Leinster, I've watched us lose to the too many times.

Plus want to beat Saints, we're a lot improved since that quater final, while I don't think they have improved, they were good enough to get to the Final then and are still good enough now.

Look I'm not going to lie, I would have a few concerns going into a Heino crunch game with O'Connor at 10 but I think his short comings, as with his predecessor Ihumph, are much exaggerated by some, on here and elsewhere.

Like he isn't Dan Carter but he isn't as bad as people are making out. He had a cracking game when Connacht beat quins, played yer man Evans off the park. He lacks consistancy and maybe a bit of mental strength but when he's on song he's decent enough at this level.

He's still young for a fly half and deserves a chance.

I know Anscombe would know better than me, but realistically BOTH Jackson AND Pienaar need a rest. HERSH would have a hernia at the suggestion, but maybe at some point we need to knowingly weaken our team a little (and it would be only a little) for the sake of the season.

You could add Cave and a few others to the list. Question is, do you give a different player a rest each week over the next couple of weeks, or do you rest quite a few all at once and then get the first choice team back to working as a unit the week after?

Mark only knows. Or maybe he's a completely no-nonsense kind of guy who believes we only rest when we die and flogs the players all the way to glory!

Clive I think Anscombe has rotated well already and will continue to do so.

If rotation is handled right then the team should never be weakened as such. The team that takes the park should always be capable of getting the result needed, otherwise it isn't really rotation.

Schmidt has done a fantastic job at Leinster of keeping players fresh, whilst generally not sacrificing quality and results in the process and so far Anscombe is following suit.

The one criticism of BM for me is that he didn't rotate well, he had a starting XV and then 2nd and 3rd choice players to cover injury.

I don't think its possible to win silverware these days without having a rotation system which keeps everyone in the squad hungry, motivated and fresh. You also need players covering injury to slot straight in, as well as the ability to change tactics when needed.

This has been the biggest improvement this year I think - guys like Marshall * 2, Henderson, McComb, brady, Allen, Stevenson etc. coming in and us looking just as strong.

I'd hate for all this '15 games' stuff from Ulster fans to prove hubristic. It would break my heart.

Actually, I've always had a soft spot for Ulster. I think lots of people do.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
Actually, I've always had a soft spot for Ulster. I think lots of people do.

Really? Neil Francis and George Hook don't anyways..... ...but very nice of you to say so sir

Neil Francis does have a soft spot for Ulster.

It's just that it is at the bottom of some Leinster shuck!

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I'd hate for all this '15 games' stuff from Ulster fans to prove hubristic. It would break my heart. .

Aye me too!!

Lets focus on 8 games unbeaten lads... no need to worry about Heineken Cup or interpros until they come around.

Rava wrote:So then we just ignore the words and listen for the tune, seemples Plus their No. 1 fan (who always gets his mug on TV) has been sent to Kenya to discuss the virtues of the topmost leaves of tall trees with the local giraffe population.

We've only sang OUR song sporadically over the past few weeks anyway. I haven't been looking forward to this fixture to be honest. Have a bit of a bad feeling. Gutted to be missing it though. The atmosphere at the end of the Bayonne game was top drawer.

Ulster are going to have it a bit tight in the second row for our away games against Zebre and Treviso in November; Tuohy and Henderson are with Ireland, and Muller is injured. Fully back Neil McComb and Lewis Stevenson to do a job but any more injuries will leave us very vulnerable there.

'NEWPORT Gwent Dragons have been given an unexpected boost for their RaboDirect Pro12 clash with unbeaten European heavyweights Ulster after getting in a muddle about their dates.

The region believed that they would be without influential number eight Toby Faletau for Friday’s encounter at Rodney Parade.

With Wales heading for a training camp in Poland ahead of the autumn Tests this weekend, the Dragons expected to be without the 21-year-old.

After last Saturday’s Amlin Challenge Cup defeat to Bayonne head coach Darren Edwards spoke about the importance of the rest of the squad stepping in to fill the sizeable hole left by Faletau.

However, that challenge can wait until next week’s trip to Glasgow after the 17-times capped forward was given the green light to don the number 8 jersey against Ulster.'

http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/10002501.Dragons__Faletau_boost_after_Wales_confusion/

Hang on a cotton picking second.

Are Dragons saying they didnt know until today that Falatau was not going to Poland tomorrow.

FFS thats very amatuer.

Correct, Stag.

I can undersatnd it, going to Poland on Sat for a tough training schedule, Dragons assumed that Gatland would not want Falatau playing the day before travelling, would want the whole squad rested ready to prepare.

They prob applied and Galtland said its ok for him to play on Friday, so they would only have found that out this week.

Fair play to Dragons, I think they assumed he couldn't play and applied to be allowed to play him, think the other regions would have assumped that he could play and they face a situation if the WRU said he couldn't be played.

Poland...................

Here we go again. New Zealand won't know what hit them.

Ah I misunderstood. I thought they got his dates of travel mixed up.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Correct, Stag.

More good reason why Dragons need to employ you immediately, even if it is unpaid

Notch wrote:Ulster are going to have it a bit tight in the second row for our away games against Zebre and Treviso in November; Tuohy and Henderson are with Ireland, and Muller is injured. Fully back Neil McComb and Lewis Stevenson to do a job but any more injuries will leave us very vulnerable there.

Guarantee Henderson will be available for those, as will Luke Marshall.

Rava wrote:

Notch wrote:Ulster are going to have it a bit tight in the second row for our away games against Zebre and Treviso in November; Tuohy and Henderson are with Ireland, and Muller is injured. Fully back Neil McComb and Lewis Stevenson to do a job but any more injuries will leave us very vulnerable there.

Guarantee Henderson will be available for those, as will Luke Marshall.

and Prob Cave and Chris Henry

Niall O'Connor has had 50+ games to show if he has the required ability, so how will one more tell anyone anything?

I have no confidence in him and no expectation for him to perform any better than he has in the past. Why would Anscombe start him when he has four or five better options? Luke Marshall or Olding in particular deserve much more of a "look" in the fly half position. Both can play centre as well as 10, so they are potentially more versatile bench options and with Pienaar and Wallace on either side both offer more attacking threat as the kicking game is well covered.

Bringing NOC (with his past record) into an unbeaten side when there are arguably better options is simply adding to the pressure on him. If Ulster lose he would cop all the blame, and if Ulster win it would be despite him as in the Ospreys game.

There was some speculation that Pienaar would be allowed three weeks holiday, so the ONLY reason I can imagine for his inclusion now is to get him up to speed to take the place kicks, should Jackson also be rested or injured.

Kings, I actually believe Henry will start against SA.

Aukster, that is a very unfair synopsis. So you have no faith in him? You are entitled to your opinion but to suggest that he won't have an influence in winning future games is preposterious.

The Zebre game is the same weekend as the the game versus Fiji. Henderson could/should feature there. Probably not against Argentina.

Ah right Notch. I hope he does feature in the Figi game.

I'm willing to bet that Muller will be available for the second of the two games against Saints.

Rava wrote:I'm willing to bet that Muller will be available for the second of the two games against Saints.

Hope so, good thing about hand injuries is you can still do most fitness, just no contact or ball handling initially.

Rava wrote:Aukster, that is a very unfair synopsis. So you have no faith in him? You are entitled to your opinion but to suggest that he won't have an influence in winning future games is preposterious.

I'm not sure what you mean by preposterious! If posterious means relating to posterior then preposterious must mean relating to gut?

I'll assume you meant "preposterous", but fail to see what I said that would fall into that category. It's true I have no confidence in Niall's ability based on the evidence of his play (different to faith), but where did I say he won't have an influence in winning future games? Every kick he makes or pass he completes influences a game, as does every one he misses. The point I was trying to make is that he is in a no-win situation if he starts against the Dragons. If the team loses their unbeaten run, he will be pillioried by his detractors, and if they win, he is unlikely to get much credit. Heaping such pressure onto him that time and again he hasn't managed to handle doesn't seem an enlightened way to develop him.

I'll ignore your condescension Aukster, but it was you who said "and if Ulster win it would be despite him as in the Ospreys game"
That seems like prejudgement to me.
Like I said earlier we have to give him the opportunity to play in the team. We have one other natural 10. What you are talking about is playing others out of position, with the possible exception of Olding. I haven't a problem with seeing how Olding would go in the team but Anscombe knows a lot more about it than I do and at present he sees NOC as the better of the two. If that changes then fair enough.

Rava wrote:I'll ignore your condescension Aukster, but it was you who said "and if Ulster win it would be despite him as in the Ospreys game"
That seems like prejudgement to me.
Like
I said earlier we have to give him the opportunity to play in the team.
We have one other natural 10. What you are talking about is playing
others out of position, with the possible exception of Olding. I haven't
a problem with seeing how Olding would go in the team but Anscombe
knows a lot more about it than I do and at present he sees NOC as the
better of the two. If that changes then fair enough.

Sorry if I've offended you Rava, one man's humour is another man's "condescension".

Rather than take a fragment of my post out of context perhaps I could reiterate and explain it for your benefit?

The Great Aukster wrote:Bringing NOC (with his past record) into an unbeaten side when there
are arguably better options is simply adding to the pressure on him. If
Ulster lose he would cop all the blame, and if Ulster win it would be
despite him as in the Ospreys game.

The theme was pressure on
NOC, with a qualification on why - no prejudgement just a statement of
reality. O'Connor's performances in the first team this season (never
mind previous ones) have been mediocre from what I've seen and not
attracted universal acclaim from the media sources I've read, nor from
other fans I've listened to. Niall has had dozens of chances to prove
himself, and despite what you may think the majority of fans want him to (including me) -
perhaps that wish weighs too heavily on him as the fans expectation has
hitherto never been met by his performance. How long has this cycle of
hope and disappointment got to keep turning?

Simply because NOC
cannot play any other position does not make him the only other option
to PJ at 10 in the squad. The modern game requires much more
interchangeability in positions - backrow, 9/10, 10/12, back three, and
players who can play in a few positions get more opportunities to
develop faster. Anscombe has transformed some players like Allen,
McCombe and McComish
into contenders, embraced Williams as a worldbeater, and regularly
selected guys like LMarshall, Henderson and Jackson. It's interesting
that all these players can and have played more than one position,
whereas the ones like Birch, D'Arcy and NOC have been much more on the
fringes. Despite the opportunities that supposedly are available, NOC
still hasn't shone under
this Glasnost regime, and starting Olding over
him last Sunday is hardly a ringing endorsement of Anscombe's faith.

Wouldn't read too much into Ravens selections. It's about assessing options and giving players a chance to develop. O'Connor has had a couple of starts, so Olding was given a start.

Ulster team to play Newport Gwent Dragons - FRI 26/10/2012
--------------------------------------------------
RaboDirect PRO12, Rodney Parade (7.05pm):
(15-9): T Bowe, A Trimble, D Cave, P Wallace, C Gilroy, R Pienaar, P Marshall.
**
(1-8): T Court, R Best, D Fitzpatrick, L Stevenson, D Tuohy, I Henderson, C Henry (capt), N Williams.
**
Replacements (16-23): N Brady, C Black, J Afoa, M McComish, R Wilson, P Jackson, L Marshall, J Payne

I have highlighted members of Irelands squad for the Autumn Internationals in bold, and put Fitzpatricks name in italics as he is expected to be added should he make it through this match.

Exciting team! Paddy Jackson and Jared Payne get a rest after playing pretty much every week. Bowe and Pienaar start out of position. With Ireland being weak at 15, Kidney will be paying close attention to Tommy Bowes performance.

He'll also be concerned that Stephen Ferris has failed to recover for this match, but it seems like Ulster just don't want to risk him. Hopefully he'll get a game against Edinburgh. Seeing Fitzpatrick get a start will be a big relief for Ireland given the paucity of other options behind Mike Ross. We can only hope Deccie Fitz gets through this game uninjured.

Do you think Kidney was behind moving Bowe to FB?

Strange to see a pretty "old" back division for Ulster. All the experienced guys on the pitch at once!

Feck, that's a handy side. Tommy Bowe at fullback is a potential weakness, but only if we kick well and don't gift him the ball with time and space to work in. I've always liked Pienaar as an outside half so I'm not too happy seeing him there.

Strong pack, too.

Yeah, it's quite an experienced backline now. Personally I'm hoping to see Gilroy cut loose, get some space to run with the ball in hand. Haven't had a chance to see what he can do in attack so far this season.

Hope the weather is good; I want to see the kind of fast, offloading game we can play being employed.

Thats a very strong team, Ashcombe is taking Dragons very seriously.

Bowe at full back is intresting, its a pity D'arcy isn't fit, i'd like hime to get a few run outs.

R Pienaar, P Marshall they may be called to play together if Jackson goes of injuried in a big game, better to give them gametime together, rather than NoC.

Notch, the weather should be fine:

http://www.yr.no/place/United_Kingdom/Wales/Newport/

Kingshu wrote:Thats a very strong team, Ashcombe is taking Dragons very seriously.

Bowe at full back is intresting, its a pity D'arcy isn't fit, i'd like hime to get a few run outs.

R Pienaar, P Marshall they may be called to play together if Jackson goes of injuried in a big game, better to give them gametime together, rather than NoC.

IRFU Orders.

Maybe so Jen, but it's not a bad decision considering Jared Payne has played every single minute of our season so far and Adam D'Arcy is injured again.

Payne, Afoa and Jackson have all been ever presents in the team. Declan Fitzpatrick and Adam D'Arcy have had a torrid time with injuries recently whilst Niall O'Connor has been off form and Pienaar away on international duty so they've had to play every game. It's important we don't overuse certain players. Keep them fresh to the end of the season and make sure we have cover available.

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

Kingshu wrote:Thats a very strong team, Ashcombe is taking Dragons very seriously.

Bowe at full back is intresting, its a pity D'arcy isn't fit, i'd like hime to get a few run outs.

R Pienaar, P Marshall they may be called to play together if Jackson goes of injuried in a big game, better to give them gametime together, rather than NoC.

IRFU Orders.

Whys it only Ulster seam to have these, Bowe at full back, certain number of games with Wallace at outhalf, Court at tighthead.

Whys it never Earls has to play Center and such like, or its rare that they do it to Earls.

I don't think they want Earls at centre. I don't know though. They seem to change their mind on where Earls should start every test window that comes up.

It's not guaranteed that this is IRFU orders btw. Payne needs rested anyway. I think it's good for the goose and good for the gander.

Kingshu wrote:

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

Kingshu wrote:Thats a very strong team, Ashcombe is taking Dragons very seriously.

Bowe at full back is intresting, its a pity D'arcy isn't fit, i'd like hime to get a few run outs.

R Pienaar, P Marshall they may be called to play together if Jackson goes of injuried in a big game, better to give them gametime together, rather than NoC.

IRFU Orders.

Whys it only Ulster seam to have these, Bowe at full back, certain number of games with Wallace at outhalf, Court at tighthead.

Whys it never Earls has to play Center and such like, or its rare that they do it to Earls.

Have you seen where Earls has played all year?

I'd say Pinaar at 10 with Marshall has a whiff of it too.

Where's Ferris btw?

Again though, it's good for us to rest Jackson.

Ferris missed the last two Heineken Cup games with a back injury. Was hoping to see him this weekend but it seems like Ulster (or Ireland) are being very cautious about his return

Never mind- Henderson is doing great in his absence. Learning with every game. It's a pleasure to watch him progress.

Any word on the Dragons side?

Interesting side.

Disappointed that Luke Marshall didn't get a well deserved start and not convinced at all by Bowe at 15 (which is looks like an indicator of what team Kidney are planning come the AIs).

Great to see Wilson back on the bench and Fitzpatrick, P Marshall and Gilroy get a start.

5 points please. SUFTUM

Fairly strong side there isn't it. Hope small parcel has a Stormer to stick 2 fingers up to kidney.

Is Kidney the puppetmaster pulling the strings?

Tommy Bowe at fullback for first time after Kidney picks no fullback in his squad.

In Munster Peter O'Mahony plays at #7 tomorrow ahead of Niall Ronan and Sean Dougall and Tommy O'Donnell. He hasnt played there so far this year but I can see him getting in there for Ireland.

The fullback decision makes a cetain degree of sense. I wish we could play an actual fullback there but there we go.

O'Mahony to 7 is less impressive. We're trying to force a square peg into a round hole as he's developing as a 6/8 now. We should have had the in-form Jennings as cover instead of a whole bunch of 6s.

Why pick new players who are playing well in their positions when you can just shuffle around the ones you usually pick?

Saves the IRFU from having to order new tracksuits I suppose.