EPS Injury Watch

Lawes and Botha both replaced in the first half of Saints v Sarries.

Hartley taken off on 41 minutes.

Ouch..

Fearns off blood replacement in Bath game...

Not good for Lawes & Hartley, hope they're just being extra safe with them.

Botha didn't start and came on and off again within 10mins for Hargreaves, so I assume he was just a blood replacement.

I had not noticed Botha coming on.

Ack, Youngs out

Are they all injured. or was they taken off as a precaution?

Jim Mallinder said:

"Courtney Lawes and Dylan Hartley have both got knee injuries, and Stephen Myler came off with a hamstring injury, so that's disappointing and we'll have to check how they are."

and now we have this http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/20112274

Not looking good.

LondonTiger wrote:Jim Mallinder said:

"Courtney Lawes and Dylan Hartley have both got knee injuries, and Stephen Myler came off with a hamstring injury, so that's disappointing and we'll have to check how they are."

and now we have this http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/20112274

Not looking good.

I have to agree with you. This is the time when you want to wrap your best players in cotton wool.

So who would be called up in the place of Lawes if he does not make it? Garvey, Launchbrey, Attwood may be.

It will be interesting too see how these injuries effect the England game come the Ais.

Lancaster will pull a number of players from next weeks matches.

Along with Hartley and Lawes, I reckon we are unlikely to see Marler, Youngs, Cole, Parling, Robshaw, Morgan, Care, Flood, Manu or Ashton next weekend.

It will be interesting...cannot aford to get many moere injuries before the Ais start.

I dont want to see injuries but I didnt want youngs in this ais anyway...purely to just recover his injury and enjoy his rugby with tigers....but god I didnt want him injured again.
Lawes and Hartley are concerns.
Youngs throwing on the first half was appalling...did he improve second half?
Launchbury must be called up.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Youngs throwing on the first half was appalling...did he improve second half?

Yes, series of pressure line-outs on the second half and he hit his man every time. It was his worst throwing performance of the season - but it improved huge amounts.

Aw good to hear LT...

Marler , Youngs, Cole would be a powerful and highly aggressive front row...and extremely mobile at the same time

I'll wait and see how they recover (hopefully they're not too serious) but if Hartley is out we're seriously stretched. The other incumbents are injured or retired (Joe Gray, Rob Webber Chris Brooker and Lee Mears) and Tom Youngs seems to get the yips.

I know it's a bit whiny but why does this sort of thing always happened to England? FOUR front line hookers out injured, its ridiculous.

So who do they call up as back up to Youngs?

David Paice?
Tom Lindsay?
Simon Alcott?
Chris Whitehead?

Not exactly inspiring. To be honest I'm really struggling to think of any more established players who could step up. You're on to looking at the young potential players after them.

Mike Haywood (Northampton)
Jamie George (Saracens)
Rob Buchanan (Harlequins)
Koree Britton (Gloucester)
Tommy Taylor (Sale)

Youngs will start if Hartley is out...but back up is a worry

Id like to say Lindsay...hes an animal....but his throwing is way off...unless its improving slowly...and lineout is a key weapon....

Haywood and Buchanan have had decent reviews.



Its a shame George hasnt come through at Sarries like we'd hoped.....

As I said on another thread - Paice is in the Saxons, he is favourite to be called up.

Paice is a bit fighty though, I wonder if he can control his temper.

Plus that would only leave us with two hookers in either squad. I'd have thought there would need to be another one called up to the Saxons/ to train with the main squad.

On ESPN they said Gray will be fit for next week against Glaws. So I assume he would be in the mix if Hartley is crocked.

Robshaw currently off with a head injury. Brown took a huge mash earlier.

Jon Joseph now limping really badly...

Cumbrian wrote:Paice is a bit fighty though, I wonder if he can control his temper.

Plus that would only leave us with two hookers in either squad. I'd have thought there would need to be another one called up to the Saxons/ to train with the main squad.

But so is Hartley, Youngs etc...I always thought that was part of the Hookers job profile

Well, if we reach the point where Lee Mears ever comes into the frame as an emergency call-up, it's worth remembering there is an England and British Lions hooker playing in the Rabo...

31 year old Andy Titterrell never officially retired from international rugby. It's still a mystery to me how he found himself in a Lions shirt but he had a reasonable game for Edinburgh the other night.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Cumbrian wrote:Paice is a bit fighty though, I wonder if he can control his temper.

Plus that would only leave us with two hookers in either squad. I'd have thought there would need to be another one called up to the Saxons/ to train with the main squad.

But so is Hartley, Youngs etc... I always thought that was part of the Hookers job profile

True that, although Hartley seems to have learned to control and harness his aggression now.

Just come on the news bar on the BBC website:

'England call up London Irish hooker David Paice & Harlequins lock George Robson as cover for Dylan Hartley & Courtney Lawes'

Yeah, Robson just doesnt inspire me remotely....

Robson probably won't play. The locks in the 23 will be Parling, Palmer and Botha, for better or for worse

CJ i know many people rate Robson highly...im not a huge fan...but then im not inspired by Botha or Parling either....in fact im concerned at our options in the SR's.

I would like Launchbury in there but we'll have to wait for that and Lawes' injury is unfortunate. Not much SL can do at this point in time! Unless he wants to play a SR without the training period before which would be very risky

Yeah its not an ideal situation...i agree Launchbury is a top one coming through...

GeordieFalcon wrote:CJ i know many people rate Robson highly...im not a huge fan...but then im not inspired by Botha or Parling either....in fact im concerned at our options in the SR's.

I think the Quins fans were just as surprised by Robson's call up. I can't see him ever making the test team which is then a waste of a squad place surely.

robsons call up makes sense in so much as if there was an injury to lineout leader parling we would be left very short in that area for a test series.

BBC website now reporting that they could both miss Fiji game. Anyone know if this means they been assessed and the injuries aren't as serious as originally thought?

I think it's a shame that they chose Robson over Launchbury to come in for the Fiji game. I would have liked to see Launchbury on the bench and started two of the more established players.

Without being disrespectful to Fiji, they are one of the easier challenges England will face on the world stage. It would have been good to get Launchbury involved in a slightly less pressured enviroment.

Ok this might be a controversial to ask but do Northampton properly look after their players?

Of all the clubs that supply England players they seem to me to have the worst track record.

Do they rush players back when not ready? Do they not warm up properly?

What is it with Northampton?

I hate that laissez faire attitude friom Mallinder too " they (hartley and lawes) go off to England now so its up to them..."

Feck me. I would like to see our one and only fit hooker (as at Friday last week) cotton woolled out of it.

Can see us losing 3 from 4 now and being seeded in a RWC pool with NZ and Argentina.

Also why the rubbish reporting on the state of their injuries. BBC making it up as they go along.

All they say is

"might miss the opening game"

That is not news!

They "might" never play again.

They "might" play all 4 AIs.

Sick of it. It's pathetic.

While im at it. Does anyone know of a pub anywhere in London that is not a fecking walkabout or not in Richmond where one can watch rugby as opposed to wendyball

rugby where the commentary is audible and one might even be able to get a seat


Or am i dreaming?

Cumbrian i would have loved to have seen Launchbury brought up.....he must be in the new EPS in January.

Can see us losing 3 from 4 now and being seeded in a RWC pool with NZ and Argentina.

Tri,

Well you gotta beat the best

Triangulation wrote:Ok this might be a controversial to ask but do Northampton properly look after their players?

Of all the clubs that supply England players they seem to me to have the worst track record.

Do they rush players back when not ready? Do they not warm up properly?

What is it with Northampton?

I hate that laissez faire attitude friom Mallinder too " they (hartley and lawes) go off to England now so its up to them..."

Feck me. I would like to see our one and only fit hooker (as at Friday last week) cotton woolled out of it.

Can see us losing 3 from 4 now and being seeded in a RWC pool with NZ and Argentina.

How can you say that? Saints generally have the least amount of injuries. In the last 3 seasons they have been remarkably light in the injury department.

It's actually why I don't think they've really had to develop strength in depth. Now they've picked up a few injuries to key players they are floundering because it's new to them.

Saints more than other sides go through a huge dip of form during internationals.

beshocked wrote:

Triangulation wrote:Ok this might be a controversial to ask but do Northampton properly look after their players?

Of all the clubs that supply England players they seem to me to have the worst track record.

Do they rush players back when not ready? Do they not warm up properly?

What is it with Northampton?

I hate that laissez faire attitude friom Mallinder too " they (hartley and lawes) go off to England now so its up to them..."

Feck me. I would like to see our one and only fit hooker (as at Friday last week) cotton woolled out of it.

Can see us losing 3 from 4 now and being seeded in a RWC pool with NZ and Argentina.

How can you say that? Saints generally have the least amount of injuries. In the last 3 seasons they have been remarkably light in the injury department.

It's actually why I don't think they've really had to develop strength in depth. Now they've picked up a few injuries to key players they are floundering because it's new to them.

Saints more than other sides go through a huge dip of form during internationals.

Beshocked,

I admit it this was an emotional post not one based on stats. I'm just gutted that we've been deprived of Wood, Lawes for an age then Lawes again before we even get him back, and now Hartley.
I apologise to the Northampton medical bods for my outburst.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Cumbrian i would have loved to have seen Launchbury brought up.....he must be in the new EPS in January.

Can see us losing 3 from 4 now and being seeded in a RWC pool with NZ and Argentina.

Tri,

Well you gotta beat the best

I understand this school of thought. At various times i have subscribed to it.

It is perhaps a little naive though?

Fact remains though one would rather meet NZ in the Final of the RWC if at all and NOT before then.

They must have a win rate vs us of 90% + and no team has lost a pool match and gone on to win the RWC. England losing a pool match would i fear knock a lot of the stuffing out of our home RWC campaign.

RWC Finals tend to be tighter cagier affairs and that tends to suit us more than Nz. So again i'd rather meet them in a final than a pool game.

Triangulation wrote:

beshocked wrote:

Triangulation wrote:Ok this might be a controversial to ask but do Northampton properly look after their players?

Of all the clubs that supply England players they seem to me to have the worst track record.

Do they rush players back when not ready? Do they not warm up properly?

What is it with Northampton?

I hate that laissez faire attitude friom Mallinder too " they (hartley and lawes) go off to England now so its up to them..."

Feck me. I would like to see our one and only fit hooker (as at Friday last week) cotton woolled out of it.

Can see us losing 3 from 4 now and being seeded in a RWC pool with NZ and Argentina.

How can you say that? Saints generally have the least amount of injuries. In the last 3 seasons they have been remarkably light in the injury department.

It's actually why I don't think they've really had to develop strength in depth. Now they've picked up a few injuries to key players they are floundering because it's new to them.

Saints more than other sides go through a huge dip of form during internationals.

Beshocked,

I admit it this was an emotional post not one based on stats. I'm just gutted that we've been deprived of Wood, Lawes for an age then Lawes again before we even get him back, and now Hartley.
I apologise to the Northampton medical bods for my outburst.

I genuinely can't tell if that's sarcasm or not. This is probably the first injury Hartley has had for some time. Wood and Lawes sure but the likes of Tongauiha,Mujati,Lamb,Dowson,Dickson do not get injured much at all. Saints as a side overall have had a remarkably injury free 1st XV. Look at someone like Ashton too.

I think it's just the style of game that each individual player plays. Both Wood and Lawes throw themselves around. Lawes is kn own for his big hitting, and Wood gets his head stuck into rucks. They are bound to get injured.

Admittedly though, it's such a shame that both have been incredibly unlucky with timings with regard to International call ups.

beshocked wrote:

Triangulation wrote:

beshocked wrote:

Triangulation wrote:Ok this might be a controversial to ask but do Northampton properly look after their players?

Of all the clubs that supply England players they seem to me to have the worst track record.

Do they rush players back when not ready? Do they not warm up properly?

What is it with Northampton?

I hate that laissez faire attitude friom Mallinder too " they (hartley and lawes) go off to England now so its up to them..."

Feck me. I would like to see our one and only fit hooker (as at Friday last week) cotton woolled out of it.

Can see us losing 3 from 4 now and being seeded in a RWC pool with NZ and Argentina.

How can you say that? Saints generally have the least amount of injuries. In the last 3 seasons they have been remarkably light in the injury department.

It's actually why I don't think they've really had to develop strength in depth. Now they've picked up a few injuries to key players they are floundering because it's new to them.

Saints more than other sides go through a huge dip of form during internationals.

Beshocked,

I admit it this was an emotional post not one based on stats. I'm just gutted that we've been deprived of Wood, Lawes for an age then Lawes again before we even get him back, and now Hartley.
I apologise to the Northampton medical bods for my outburst.

I genuinely can't tell if that's sarcasm or not. This is probably the first injury Hartley has had for some time. Wood and Lawes sure but the likes of Tongauiha,Mujati,Lamb,Dowson,Dickson do not get injured much at all. Saints as a side overall have had a remarkably injury free 1st XV. Look at someone like Ashton too.

Beshocked

It is not sarcasm. Why would you think it was?

For goodness sakes. I want EPS players protected leading into AI Test match series particularly when we only have 1 hooker! But i concede that the only way to do that would have been to pull him out of the match. I cant point to anything in particular that Saints have done wrong.

I thought it might be sarcasm because as you pointed out Wood and Lawes are two players who have admittedly been very unlucky with injuries.

I can understand that Triangulation. You want English players protected but Hartley and Lawes were never going to be rested in a very important clash against probably their 2nd biggest rivals.

It does leave England thin of the ground but players need to test themselves against the best to prove their worth too.

beshocked wrote:I thought it might be sarcasm because as you pointed out Wood and Lawes are two players who have admittedly been very unlucky with injuries.

I can understand that Triangulation. You want English players protected but Hartley and Lawes were never going to be rested in a very important clash against probably their 2nd biggest rivals.

It does leave England thin of the ground but players need to test themselves against the best to prove their worth too.

Yes i know. It is hugely frustrating and if ever there was a case for cotton woolling a player if necessary by RFU intervention it was Hartley.

But you cannot blame Northampton for looking after their own best interests. I do understand that.

Mallinder did not seem too bothered when speaking about it afterwards and that irked me.

Now what about someone answering my london rugby pub enquiry?

I dont want to go to richmond or to a walkabout and i want to watch rugby with commentary audible - am i scuppered?

To be fair to Mallinder it's out of his hands now. They are under England's care now. It's the whole club vs country thing.

Like most Directors of Rugby Mallinder probably cares about whether they'll be alright for their next club game rather than hoping they'll be fit for England.

Probably. Can't say I am the best person to ask. I either go to the game live or just watch matches at home if they are on.

So.......

Saint played on Saturday.

Here we are nearly at Tueasday with an extremely important series of Test Matches approaching and no one can even be bothered to tell us what is going on with Lawes, our only Hooker and a raft of others.

Great.

Official_RFU Twitter- Worcester Warriors loosehead Matt Mullan will arrive at England camp tonight as injury cover for Joe Marler (tight hamstring) #rugby

Might be losing Marler too

Triangulation wrote:...Here we are nearly at Tuesday...

It's certainly nearly Tuesday, but is actually still Monday afternoon, the day Lawes, Hartley et al go in for scans.

England have called up cover for the players they are concerned about so it's not as if there's been an information vaccuum.

ChequeredJersey wrote:
Official_RFU Twitter- Worcester Warriors loosehead Matt Mullan will arrive at England camp tonight as injury cover for Joe Marler (tight hamstring) #rugby

Might be losing Marler too

Fecking hell.

How is it that we have a great run with injuries UNTIL now and then everyone goes down in one weekend.

Call the AIs off. Im sick to death of this.

Why the feck doesnt the RFU intervene 2 weeks out and cotton wool vital players?

If they dont have the power to do this then they damned well should.


They're trying to flog Twickenham tickets for upwards of 60 quid and these games decide RWC seedings.

Oh and they're Test matches not B team friendlies.

Ahh feck this.

Wake me up when its all over were going to lose 3 from 4.