Will Phil Davies see out his contract?

How long is his contract? He has a team with those players at his disposal and they play like they have all season, that isn't acceptable. Get rid of him NOW and things will get better. They can not possibly get worse!

Well, lets hope not. I think in football they're often too quick to pull the trigger, but in rugby sometimes we're too slow. Especially in Wales where we now have no relegation at the top level. Somehow that seems to buy coaches more time, which makes sense in a way. But many coaches have not yielded results but kept jobs for years. Darren Edwards has been there a while at the Dragons and they get worse and worse.

Ironically, one of the only coaches to get the boot in Wales lately was the one to do the best: Lyn Jones! The rest move on to pastures new after doing nothing of not (from a winning leagues and silverware point of view).

You seriously hope not? Jeez who are you watching. The French aren't afraid to sack their coaches because they don't stand for this type of sh//t being displayed on the pitch.

Eh? 'Will Davies see out his contract'; me: 'I hope not'. I hope that he doesn't see it out. What's wrong with that? You want him to see it out? Be there for 4 years? You must hate the blues!

Oh sorry, I thought you were disagreeing with the idea. Glad you agree. Haha I don't hate the Blues that much. But it is vital to their future that they keep hold of the best players they got. Roberts, Cuthbert, Halfpenny and others will be off next season if things don't change. They won't change with Phil there. Blues need to save themselves. This is genuine concern . Dragons could do with a new coach too mind, but I think we'll be okay labouring on with Edwards until the seasons end. They should start their search now though.

Ha! OK, crossed wires there!

It's funny how since regional rugby the fortunes of the other regions have become important to all. Beforehand it would be great to see Cardiff struggling. Now, we're concerned as it impacts Welsh rugby in general so much.

I've never seen such a down turn in fortunes as with the Blues. Since Davies came in they've taken a few hammerings. However, that's been against the Irish who just seem to be improving vastly across the board. We were on the receiving end too last night.

Agree on Edwards; he's had his chance, we've gone backwards since, so maybe time to rethink and try someone else e.g. Kingsley Jones?

If they're all off, you can just picture others from the other teams following suite. This team should be competing in Europe like they have been for the past few years. How can it be possible for a team stacked with international players sink so low. Phil Davies was a poor appointment, with that track record what did they expect?

Someone posted elsewhere (was it you?) that the Scarlets were the same under Davies. They shipped load of points, but as a typical Scarlets team at least they had the livewire backs to score a load too. With the Blues they haven't got that sort of firepower; they haven't got the sort of creation to put their decent players like cuthbert, Roberts and halfpenny in good positions.

Think Davies' weaknesses are really exposed.

No it wasn't me. But yes I remember they got drubbed a lot in Europe when he was in charge, it was embarrassing. He's been with the U20s and Worcester and they were both pretty crap under him. What is this guy doing coaching.

Thomas does not sack his coaches. So yes he is there for the long term.

Besides they won't get a better coach for the money they are willing to spend.

Davies appointment was a shock to a lot of people, and he has his weaknesses (Rugby) but sacking him and replacing him won't change a thing.

Welsh club rugby has a serious problem, and it can't be fixed at the top end, it has to be changed from the bottom.

The Blues have no money to pay a decent coach, so Davies has to stay, similar to Edwards.

No money = poor squad = poor performances = less gate = less money...

Didn't the regions just turn down a chance to have WRU more fully involved in paying certain player salaries...ie, giving them an opening to have more money for a 'decent' coach?

If this is so then the equation is a little bit more complex, bluesman:

No money = poor squad = poor performances = less gate = less money = less than decent coaching = regional autonomy = defiance against WRU = no money = poor squad =...........................

Yes they did. And maybe the WRU could have a say in who coaches where if there was some kind of central contracting system in place. I believe there are to be re-negotiations though. I can only see things getting worse for Blues. There is a chance to stop that by getting rid of Davies. There's too many amateur coaches involved and unfortunately our best ones are in England.

HAHAHAHA

Fly the central contract idea wasn't quite as simple as that.

From what I've read (and I may not be 100% correct) the central contracts were to replace or at least part replace funding already received, and therefore the regions wouldnt be any better of if not worse off.

The whole thing smacked of the WRU trying to show the public how great they are and the regions throwing it back in their face, but in reality that is really not what it was.

Plus Morgs point about player control

Yeah obviously that was the case. That idea wasn't well thought out. The model should in this case, lean more towards the NZ contracting one. Like I said, they are going to be renegotiated. Obviously the WRU should be funding the Regions (not much less than they do now) and contract (or dual contract) the internationals. And, the WRU found Gatland. Hopefully they can find some decent Welsh coaches to come in. Those decisions can't be left to your board obviously, with B&B followed by Phil. The Union should be running the show and there should be no 'RRW'.

Well if that's true and it was still no extra money in real terms, then there wasn't much there to even make an approach by WRU viable.
"We want more control over your players because too many of them are leaving. Therefore, we'll agree to help you fund their staying (by us personally paying some of them what they think they'll be getting in France or England) but we'll be taking money off you in other areas to fund our 'generosity'!"

Was that really the deal? "I'm buying the drinks but you're paying"?

Strange proposal. I thought it was actually more money the WRU were offering in return for, yes, more control over players. But then again, there is no such thing as free money and the WRU were always going to have something they wanted in return for giving out some money.

Thats the impression I get Fly. Maybe not quite that bad but certainly the jist.

The WRU are in a tough place in their defence, they are reducing huge debts quite effectively and have employed and invested in the right (or very near to it) coaching set up, the national team are in a healthy place and may get to push on this autumn.

Sadly the mess they created 10 years ago is coming back to bite them on the bum, and they have to decide wether to help it or just let it rot to aid their own status.

As of yet they are letting the club game rot, and are clearly focused on the top table.

It kind of reminds me of how clubs treat their punters, look after the corporates and let the terraces look after themselves, and lets be honest who really cares what they think or do.

Fly, the WRU gives £6m divided by 4 regions for player release (very generous IMO). The proposal was that they'd keep that money to pay for central contracts. Sounded OK to me. Then someone on here made a good point: from the regions point of view they would be receiving no more funding and handing over their best assets to the WRU. From that point of view I can see why it's not so appealing!

Blues dont need to sack Phil Davies, they just need to bring in 6 top quality forwards. They ones they have are just not good enough!

But they can't afford 1 good quality forward and they have been offered 2 very good forwards in recent seasons in Delve and Gill.

The players they have signed Borrust, Kryiacou, Mafi, Copeland, Lewis, Reed were all they could afford, other clubs squadmen!!!

As I have reiterated on threads before: Phil Davies is complete toss as a coach. Every team he has coached has been awful, and he never seems to acknowledge when his sides (or his own) performance has been unacceptable. Get rid of him now blues FFS!!!

+ 1

Finally we're back on topic.

It does not help having Baber still on the books, the Blues should get rid of him first even if they have to pay him off.

I had to laugh today on Scrum V with Holley having a pop at the Blues having Tovey and others playing scrum half and the 9 being the receiver, I remember the EDF final with the Ospreys playing Leicester in their first final and Marshall was standing at 10 and anybody was playing 9, the Ospreys shipped two or three tries early on and put Leicester out of sight. Holley has a short memory, maybe he is after a job!

To be fair to Phil Davies he inherited and imbalanced squad, off the back of a poor summer recruiting ( pt & peter manning signings apparently)

On whether PD is a good coach? People who I've spoken to who have worked with him rate him. But results and performances seem to say a different story.

tatterd wrote:As I have reiterated on threads before: Phil Davies is complete toss as a coach. Every team he has coached has been awful, and he never seems to acknowledge when his sides (or his own) performance has been unacceptable. Get rid of him now blues FFS!!!

He seemed to be very retrospective in interview. Bad day in Dublin, the Blues always play poorly against Leinster, they are likeir hoodoo team.

Time to shake up, time for players to stand and be counted, time to turn their season around.

They should be so much better.

For some reason Peter Thomas keeps appointing Welsh coaches, as a result we were stuck with Young then Burnell and Baber and now Davies and Baber.

This wouldn't even be a huge problem if we just got the best available Welsh coaches - unfortunately they are all in England, Lyn Jones, Kingsley, N.Davies and even Dai Young.

Gareth Baber isn't up to coaching Pentyrch RFC, Dale McIntosh and Paul John are already there in the region, and they actually have a track record of winning things, even if it is only a bag full of Premiership trophies.

The reason the blues lost was because. Players didn't make tackles, lost their defensive lines, didn't use their brains and had o leadership on the pitch.

The players are responsible not the coaches.

To be fair we the Blues are not exactl y setting the world on fire this season, but lets cast our minds back to the start of the Summer when there were the 'Blues In Metdown' threads on here. There has been a mass exodus of talent at the Blues this season, you have lost probably a heap of your best players and most influencial players too, and you were failing to sign anyone at all. Then Phil Davies was brought in, and all of a sudden the Blues were not going to be in a dog fire to qualify for the HEC, but were going to be pushig for a home play-off at the end of the season.

Realistically it will take Phil a while to get to grips with the Blues, and it does seem that he is getting more involved with the political 'region not city' issues than paying attention to the team. And he is doing his normal head int he sand stuff in the interviews. I do not want to see the Blues axe him until they have given him a summer to make signings himself. After all Nigel Davies was dire at the Scarlets his first season, Dai Young was dire at the BLues for every season bar one etc etc.

P.S. Jiffy should not be allowed to comment on it on Scrum V as seeing as they are related he is far from impartial

I hope so....he is a good coach. Look the Blues are not playing well granted, but he did inherit this squad. You can have the best backs in the world but without a platform it makes no difference as the Scarlets are finding out against better sides.

He has got a poor selection of Props there as well as a number of question marks on backrowers and locks. Reed, Davies & Warburton are quality but outside of that I've got some serious doubts.

Both Mafi and Filise are showing already what a complete waste of money those pair are. Filise looks well past it now and everytime he plays is being shown up.

Ospreys are the only side in Wales who have got it right in terms of strength in the forwards. At the end of the day there is a reason why forwards tend to be better paid than backs. They tend to affect the outcome of a game almost 80% of the time (based on dominance).

I hope Phil does start bringing in some eastern european forwards to give them a hard egde and cuts loose the driftwood that clearly is not up to the level. I think he can if he is given time to assemble his squad.

maestegmafia wrote:The reason the blues lost was because. Players didn't make tackles, lost their defensive lines, didn't use their brains and had o leadership on the pitch.

The players are responsible not the coaches.

Well done for repeating for Scrum V/Sean Holley said. Well thought out.

Mushroom -: I am not too sure how good a coach Phil really is. Look at his track record with teams and he does appear to be really good at getting them to reach for the stars, but then has a problem of keeping them performing once they actually reach the level that they belong at. E.g Leeds from nowhere to prem, to HEC and then relegated and never heard of again. Scarlets to HEC semi-final then finishing the HEC pool with out a single point. It may well be that the Blues (or at least he pleyers in the squad) are all at that point where his motivation style is not working for them. So either new squad or new coach is required, and sadly the cheaper option (and probably quicker results too) would be to replace Phil.

Morgannwg wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:The reason the blues lost was because. Players didn't make tackles, lost their defensive lines, didn't use their brains and had o leadership on the pitch.

The players are responsible not the coaches.

Well done for repeating for Scrum V/Sean Holley said. Well thought out.

No need to be antagonistic...!!!

I havent seen scrum V yet.

If the blues do get rid of PC Phill they might end up with Holly, that would scare any club into keeping their coach.

What I want to know is will Jamie Roberts awful defensive efforts force Gatland to drop him and pick Scott Williams or Beck?

If we're going to have real forward progress we need to drop and rotate when necessary.

maestegmafia wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:The reason the blues lost was because. Players didn't make tackles, lost their defensive lines, didn't use their brains and had o leadership on the pitch.

The players are responsible not the coaches.

Well done for repeating for Scrum V/Sean Holley said. Well thought out.

No need to be antagonistic...!!!

I havent seen scrum V yet.

If the blues do get rid of PC Phill they might end up with Holly, that would scare any club into keeping their coach.

Maesteg you are 100% spot on mate......... anyone who actually watches rugby can see where the problem is at the Blues and it aren't the coach first and foremost. The tackling over the last three games has been diabloical, the ability to drive, ruck and maul is non existant, they are consistantly second best in defence hence they cannae create any platform for their backs. The coaching staff cant actually defend for the team!!

Anyone who says that Davies hasnt produced results!!!He has shown with Leeds, the Scarlets, and Worcester that he can bring clubs to punch above their weight, however he has inherited clubs without resources both continuing money, marketing or structure.

Lastly knee jerk reactions are typical in this neck of the woods......... would be good to hear if the posters can offer where the Blues can improve both in coaches and players taking into account the financial restraints

RogerLewis wrote:What I want to know is will Jamie Roberts awful defensive efforts force Gatland to drop him and pick Scott Williams or Beck?

If we're going to have real forward progress we need to drop and rotate when necessary.

Welcome Roger... Hows things down the WRU.. sure to be plenty of questions you can answer on here from the many critics of all your endeavours down at Westgate Street.

FHF

I would say blame falls a great deal closer to Xavier Rush's feet than Baber or Davies.

He is the defence coach and he is new to the role, having only just retired as a player last season.

I know the blues have recently introduced Rob Powell to help Rush get up to speed. So I guess they are doing the right things, but immediate effects are not apparent.

Better a long term gain than a short term botched fix.

maestegmafia wrote:

RogerLewis wrote:What I want to know is will Jamie Roberts awful defensive efforts force Gatland to drop him and pick Scott Williams or Beck?

If we're going to have real forward progress we need to drop and rotate when necessary.

Welcome Roger... Hows things down the WRU.. sure to be plenty of questions you can answer on here from the many critics of all your endeavours down at Westgate Street.

Hello there. Feel free to ask me any questions about the WRU I'm happy to do a question and answer session. We will look at giving the region's more money once Pickering stops buying luxury yachts.

Well, IMO, if a player is rubbish for his region but plays a lot better for the national team then that suggests that it is down to the coaching and/or the tactics, which is a function of the coaching team too. Tackling is obviously down to the player, but where's the coaching to instill the importance of tackling? Where's the effective defensive patters? I've seen the Blues be very good defensively in the past so the players are capable. The only thing that's changed (in terms of players like Roberts suddenly not being able to tackle) is the coaching team.

Exactly, the problem is Davies inherited a team that is basically poor in many positions, hence many of the "star" players seem to be doing overtime on the pitch somebody mentioned Jamie Roberts poor tackling (shades of Jonathan Davies comments on Scrum5) but didnt say how many tackles in the loose and at the breakdown he made crikey the guy should be playing off the halfbacks not sweeping up the mess of the front five.......... some unbelievable comments on here "amature" I mean the guy has been in rugby since the age of SEVEN, has played and worked at all levels.

Griff wrote:Well, IMO, if a player is rubbish for his region but plays a lot better for the national team then that suggests that it is down to the coaching and/or the tactics, which is a function of the coaching team too. Tackling is obviously down to the player, but where's the coaching to instill the importance of tackling? Where's the effective defensive patters? I've seen the Blues be very good defensively in the past so the players are capable. The only thing that's changed (in terms of players like Roberts suddenly not being able to tackle) is the coaching team.

!!!!....... When have the Blues last been a defensively good team?...... be interesting to hear your comments when. I have seen them playing us home and away since they have been a region and I have yet to see them play well on a consistant basis. Maybe 4 season ago when Rush, Gethin, Martyn, were "world class" but since then no they havent played well. Davies has INHERITED this squad of players.

Phil Davies's own summary of himself, from the professional networking site 'LinkedIn';

Specialties
Implementing , Developing and Managing a successful Professional rugby project as a Director of Rugby or Head Coach
Man Management - 1 on 1 development programmes
Motivational speaking , Leadership seminars
Experienced Television pundit - Sky Sports / BBC wales since 2002

(the freestyle usage of capital letters is Phil's own work).

The full version - http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/phil-davies/14/5b5/997 suggests that Phil veers between being quite successful (usually in the lower tiers of rugby) or dramatically awful (usually when coaching at the higher levels).

Which is interesting, as I assumed he was always just terrible.

RogerLewis wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

RogerLewis wrote:What I want to know is will Jamie Roberts awful defensive efforts force Gatland to drop him and pick Scott Williams or Beck?

If we're going to have real forward progress we need to drop and rotate when necessary.

Welcome Roger... Hows things down the WRU.. sure to be plenty of questions you can answer on here from the many critics of all your endeavours down at Westgate Street.

Hello there. Feel free to ask me any questions about the WRU I'm happy to do a question and answer session. We will look at giving the region's more money once Pickering stops buying luxury yachts.

Ha ha ha...!

There are a lot of crazy comments regarding what we've seen as class players.

Roberts hasn't forgotten how to tackle, as any international 12, or back rower for that fact thats taken the ball down his channel.

Warburton, Davies havn't become bad players overnight!!!

All of the welsh international players are class acts!!!

Did someone really just make the comment that Davies has to teach them the 'importance of the tackle' are you kidding me?? They are not 10 yr olds.

These guys train day in day our on systems, patterns, analysis, conditioning, technique endurance, technical ability and you want to have a chat and explain that tacklings important.

Defencive systems work when the whole team has one goal, impliments one strategy and everyone knows their role, for example..

When in a situation in your own 22 and numbers favour the attacking team wide, and the ruck is on the 5m line left hand side someone will call a hammer say. This means the wider player fly out at 100mph to stop the ball getting wide to where the threat lies.

If the ball doesn't go wide and stays tight the narrow defence do their usual 'attack the initial threat' routine, where the first man in hits the ball carrier and his inside and outside ensure the roll or offload are covered, they are then in a position to slow or steal ball.

Just very simple examples but from where I'm seeing Roberts doesnt trust either man inside or outside him (and as defence is based in 3's he's in trouble) he doesn't trust the defencive system and therefore the whole wall falls down because of one weak brick!!

Plus we've all seen the passion and ferocity these players give for the Welsh cause, IMHO they don't have the same comitment or beleif in their 'region' and therein lies part of the problem, how do you put your body on the line for something you don't care about???

thebluesmancometh wrote:There are a lot of crazy comments regarding what we've seen as class players.

Roberts hasn't forgotten how to tackle, as any international 12, or back rower for that fact thats taken the ball down his channel.

Warburton, Davies havn't become bad players overnight!!!

All of the welsh international players are class acts!!!

Did someone really just make the comment that Davies has to teach them the 'importance of the tackle' are you kidding me?? They are not 10 yr olds.

These guys train day in day our on systems, patterns, analysis, conditioning, technique endurance, technical ability and you want to have a chat and explain that tacklings important.

Defencive systems work when the whole team has one goal, impliments one strategy and everyone knows their role, for example..

When in a situation in your own 22 and numbers favour the attacking team wide, and the ruck is on the 5m line left hand side someone will call a hammer say. This means the wider player fly out at 100mph to stop the ball getting wide to where the threat lies.

If the ball doesn't go wide and stays tight the narrow defence do their usual 'attack the initial threat' routine, where the first man in hits the ball carrier and his inside and outside ensure the roll or offload are covered, they are then in a position to slow or steal ball.

Just very simple examples but from where I'm seeing Roberts doesnt trust either man inside or outside him (and as defence is based in 3's he's in trouble) he doesn't trust the defencive system and therefore the whole wall falls down because of one weak brick!!

Plus we've all seen the passion and ferocity these players give for the Welsh cause, IMHO they don't have the same comitment or beleif in their 'region' and therein lies part of the problem, how do you put your body on the line for something you don't care about???

Spot on my man............ nice to see you and Maestegmafia as the balance between the sensible and knowledgable and the knee-jerk posters who would sack someone based on a few results only

Fly

I wouldn't sack Davies, but I certainly wouldn't have hired him!!!

We have him now, we can't afford to buy him out or employ anyone else, similarly we just had to employ someone to teach Rush to do his job.

Maybe if Thomas loans us 2 mill at 2345% APR we can spend.

Lovin' some of the brass comments on here. Particulary the "he inherited a poor team" one. How does a guy who has 8 Welsh internationals(all not currently selected for Wales), players like; Halfpenny, Cuthbert, Roberts, Warburton, Davies, Reed at his disposal, inherit a poor team? They have some other good players around these guys. And there's a couple more good players waiting to be cherry picked from Cardiff RFC, albeit mostly backline players. Phil hasn't inherited a poor team. Nigel Davies inherited a struggling team, I wouldn't go as far as to say they were 'poor' though.

I refferred to the defence the other night. The defence is terrible and yes that particular coach should also be held accountable. There is no organisation to it or line speed what so ever. THe Dragons have exact same issue. The Blues front 5 look lazy and unfit. It was clear that they could not handle the pace of the game. In comparison with Leinster who had forwards back on their feet the moment the ball was out and were hitting rucks like a steam train, effectively recycling and producing quick ball for a well organised attacking unit. They were simply a joy for any rugby fan to watch. Very much the opposite of their opposition (the team who's coach we are discussing). I can assure anyone this is no knee-jerk reaction to a result. It's a collection of results. And besides this, I questioned the appointment from day 1 citing his history.

As you can tell I want him gone. He can not coach at this level for a long time, or not ever again. I posted this as a concern. PD obviously can't motivate his players, maybe he doesn't even have their respect. Thankfully the Wales management will be left to pick up the pieces and put them back together. My main concern is the Blues going from bad to worse, which they will with Phil. Therefore they lose their internationals at the end of the season to other clubs and are worse off. Can you imagine them being worse than they are now? Scary stuff!

To add to the poor team comment. I believe it was Baber and Burnell that inherited the poor team last season. They were without their internationals for a long time, and when they did have them they would be injured. Along with other injuries piling up. Granted, they didn't have the best squad to pick from in certain areas. They were well out of their depth though and that showed.

Somebody said it was Pete Thomas (the stakeholder) influencing some of these decisions. Some bad decisions in the past aswell, i:e. recruitment of players to be played out of position. Why does this guy have a say, shouldn't he stick to the marketing side and the let the ruby be run by the rugby people, such as the WRU!

The WRU has NO say in the running of the region,

Unfortunately the owner of the club does have a say.

wales606 wrote:The WRU has NO say in the running of the region,

Unfortunately the owner of the club does have a say.

Tell me something I don't know. I was just reiterating an earlier point of mine, that the WRU should be partly running all 4. It's their product. A number of times the regions have shown they can't do it themselves, or do it effectively enough when left to run themselves.