What defines Heavyweight "World Class"??

Hey guys,

Just looking for your input on this one.

We see so many comments about peoples levels at the lower weights, euro level, domestic level and world level (in Az's case, lower b level, upper c minus divided by 3 level).

Normally winning the British belt etc get you domestic level status, European Belt is Euro, the when a fighter wins a world strap he is deemed a world class fighter.

So, how do we tag heavyweight fighters with this critique. Fury & hessessy when announcing Kevin Johnson, discribed him a a "world class" fighter. But on what basis?? Johnson, ranked 53rd in the heavyweight rankings, behind such fighters as Audley Harrison, Tyson Fury, David Price etc has never won anything close to the same as a European Belt, let alone a world title.

So are we to brand every Klitschko victim "world class", just because they fought a Klitschko?

I am not trying to put down Fury's opponent btw, as I think its a major step in the right direction from the likes of Rogan etc and should be an interesting fight.

It just makes me wonder how heavyweights earn their world class description nowadays.

Cheers

Dee

He did somehow fight for and win the IBF Australasian heavyweight title, which is a continental title presumably on a par with a European title.

That would be on par with the WBO European Title which is knocking about. The EBU title has more meaning I feel.

But your view would be welcome Union instead of nit picking.

I'm not sure what defined World Class these days but there's nothing on Johnson's record to suggest that he is. There's nothing on his record to merit such a claim.

I do agree that it is is a step in the right direction as Johnson is durable, has hung about in the ring with some decent fighters (and a very good one in Vitali) and will allow Fury to get some solid rounds under his belt. Fury really should win comfortably though if he has any ambition to be taken seriously.

Didn't Johnson allegedly KO Haye in sparring before the Harrison fight?

Agreed. And he's not even Australasian.

Titles mean pretty much nothing nowadays, and obviously Johnson is not what we would describe as "World Class", but then we shouldn't be surprised that Team Fury are building him up.

World Class to me means, able to operate effectively on the world level and beat some oppposition there. I just means you belong on that stage. You know it when you see it, but often it isn't known until the fighter is tested.

George Groves, for example. If he beats Glen Johnson he will say he is operating at world level, which would have been true if he beat the Glen Johnson who fought Woods, Jones jr. or even Froch. But if it is the Johnson who fought Bute and that last guy who I can't be bothered to BoxRec, then he is no longer a world class operator, so Groves claims may be premature.

I am not using Heavyweight examples as I feel weight class has nothing to do with world class.

And world class today might have been euro level in the seventies.

Think Sean is not a million miles off, for me in this era of multiple belts merely fighting for a world title is definitely not enough to define you as world class, if indeed it ever was and am also not certain winning a world title is even enough. For me competing and operating in and around world title level over a number of years and just as importantly winning a few at the level has the be the minimum expectation. For me Froch is a world level fighter, Johnson most assuredly is not, one not particularly inspiring defeat to a decent fighter does not make you world class.

World Class is a Sun reader / footballer term. An adjective used often by people with limited vocabulary.

Other Sun reader / footballer terms include:

Setting our stall out
Resting on our laurels
etc etc

I know its just a term but it is one that is constantly used on this site and in general boxing talk.

It seems that beating a world class fighter would be the way to be deamed world class, but as K-2 have dominated for so long, their victims have technically never beaten a world class fighter. So they can only be labelled so on the basis of having fought either Wlad or Vitali.

It bothers me that Wach is a world class fighter now.

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:It bothers me that Wach is a world class fighter now.

I don't think anyone is saying that, are they?

Operating with a degree of consistency and success at world level for me - i.e world championship/top ten/contender status.

In boxing there can probaby be as many or as few levels as one wishes. "World class" is fairly generic. The more traditional route was Domestic-Euro/NABF-World but nowadays with so many weights weights and titles around the distinctions can be lost or blurred.

Union Cane wrote:

Reborn-DeeMcK-Reborn wrote:It bothers me that Wach is a world class fighter now.

I don't think anyone is saying that, are they?

If Kevin Johnson is a world class fighter for fighting Vitali then Wach surely must be for fighting Wlad.

They're both not, Mick Hennessy is trying to sell the fight.

I know that Alex.

But the article justed used that as an example.

If the Klitschkos (and Haye) are the only recent fighters to hold belts. So techically there are only 3 world class fighters in the division due to all the recent contenders bar Haye being beat by Wlad, have lost and never beaten a world class fighter.

seanmichaels wrote:World Class is a Sun reader / footballer term. An adjective used often by people with limited vocabulary.

Other Sun reader / footballer terms include:

Setting our stall out
Resting on our laurels
etc etc

"Get off your high horse", is that a Sun reader term?

It must be; I read the Sun

.....as well as The Independent, Foreign Affairs and The Week, I also read the Daily Star.

Ooh, get her!

We all read at least ONE page of the Sun and Star

...ok, maybe not the heart break kid

Would that page be the 3rd one by any chance mackem?

World class is a term I associate more with football - ie if a player would get into a world eleven I would consider him a world class player, if he wouldn't I don't - Rooney for example I do not consider to be 'world class'.

If there is an equivalent in boxing then Kevin Johnson is certainly not it. Personally I would judge a fighter to be world class based on the quality of opposition beaten, level of performance and consistency. Titles are so profligate and Mickey Mouse these days that they're hardly worth taking into consideration. It's rare to see a boxer NOT standing with a strap of some kind over his shoulder after a victory these days.

World Class is also a term bandied about on X Factor...

It should mean being capable of winning or being a world champion.Usually it's hype though.

i think basically if you'd give them a chance in a hypothecial matchup with most top contenders then your world class, ie povetkin, arreloa, pulev, adamek and solis. they are (give or take) the top contenders, and i'd back johnson to beat a few of them (adamek, arreloa and solis) so i'd say he's world class.

i dont think you have to be unbeatable to be world class, take froch who is a world class operater (having beat the likes of bute, dirrell, pascal etc) he has lost to ward and always will imo, and lost to kessler (who he can beat in a rematch) so he's hardly the true champion, but put him in against domestic or euro fighters and he would destroy them.

fighters like mayweather, martinez, ward, donaire, k bros and others are what i would call elite fighters, fighters who can make genuine world class fighters look like amatuers