One man doesn't make a team...

Although one man doesn't make a team, a great player like Carter does influence how well the team performs.... Or does he ?

The fly-half position is one if not the most critical position in a rugby team, where the player's decisions, sometimes reactionary, can make the difference between success and failure.

How many times have we recently seen a bad decision taken by Preistland, at a critical time, just hand the ball and upper hand back to the opponents.

I'm sure that no one will argue, that Carter is probably the best 10 in today's game. He's played international rugby now since 2003, and I believe his first caps where at centre, but the majority being at 10.

The title of the post being "One man doesn't make a team...", but do anyone think the All Blacks would have been such a dominant force over the last (nearly) 10 years, if it wasn't for Carter. I think there is no doubt they would have been a "good" side but would they have been the "greatest" for so long.

As much as it pains me to mention this ireland lost to NZ 60-0 and carter wasnt on the field.

He is a fantastic player though.

They won a world cup pretty much without him. Stephen Donald (the 4th choice) kicked the winning points!

Obviously they wouldn't have been quite as good without him, but to be honest I still think they would've been world number 1s.

Do I think NZ have been AS dominant a force without Carter? Probably not, he's a fantastic player and if he keeps going at the same standard for another couple of years I'd argue the best ever!

Would they have still been the dominant force in rugby though? Yes personally I'd think so, you just have to look at a player of Nick Evans quality not playing international rugby to see that NZ would still have had very good fly halfs at their disposal.

In fact I'd probably argue that Nick Evans is the second best fly half in the world at the moment after Carter!

That's a very good point GG, and I suppose its is down to the fact that do have so many players who can just step up to the plate when needed.

But I do think Carter is the cool maestro, that keeps this great side in check and his genious allows the other players to flourish.

Without Carter the All Blacks, are the best team in the world, with him they go to another level.

MRW wrote:That's a very good point GG, and I suppose its is down to the fact that do have so many players who can just step up to the plate when needed.

But I do think Carter is the cool maestro, that keeps this great side in check and his genious allows the other players to flourish.

Without Carter the All Blacks, are the best team in the world, with him they go to another level.

Do you remember how good Carter was when he played a few seasons in France for Perpignan!!?............... actually not very good at all

Remember he is and has played for the overall best 15 or 22 (because most of the ABs bench is world class) for the last decade........

He hardly played at all for Perpignan as he was injured. The games he did play though he looked good.

A key thing with New Zealand is that their players all develop playing the same sort of game, which I think is key to their ability to replace pretty much any player and not miss a beat. The level of understanding between the players amplifies their abilities.

Carter is a fantastic player, but I'm with King_Carlos. If they hadn't had him, or if he'd been injured for an extended period, they could always have turned to Nick Evans, and even without Evans they can now turn to Slade, Cruden and, erm, Donald.

If any player has been critical to their success over the last decade, I'd say it's McCaw. But I bet they will find a decent replacement even for him.

Not sure Slade is a great 10. He can play the guitar though.

GunsGerms wrote:He hardly played at all for Perpignan as he was injured. The games he did play though he looked good.

Thats no true, he had injuries particularly at the end of his contract, but played over 60% of his game time and by his own admission he dinnae have that much influence on the team, and not many class games........

GunsGerms wrote:Not sure Slade is a great 10. He can play the guitar though.

Yeah, but can he pull the strings like Dan, I doubt it

No he cannot but he does have abnormally long arms.

Carter is a good Canterbury man and the world, let alone world rugby, sadly doesn't contain enough of us, I mean them. His good fellow Cantabrian team mate Richie McCaw has had probably more influence over this team than Danny boy, as is evidence by his phenomenal success rate as captain. Only Conrad Smith has a higher winning percentage and even though that very gifted man is not from Wellington, he behaves and performs like a rugged red and black man should.

No player is bigger than the team and there is too much class across the park to concentrate on one man. DC will be missed against Wales this weekend but there are other senior players who will accordingly try to step up in order to fill his absence. That team spirit and the 16th man that is the AB legacy is what inspires consistency among the ABs. And consistency of performance is what inspires the individual players because they know too well if they don't perform, there are players breathing down their necks who are ready and willing to take their place.

It's the team ethos that makes them so good.

When ex all blacks play in Europe they are good, of course, but they aren't super human that we fool ourselves to believe they are when the All Blacks have thrashed NH sides in the past.

Howlett. Amazing unbelievable try record but he doesn't play for Munster as well as Shane Williams did for the Ospreys.
Sivivatu and Rokocoko
Collins and Hola
McAllister
Spencer
Marshall

Great players but individually I would say we have players as good in Europe. It's the way they shine in the all blacks TEAM that's the big deception. The rest of the world needs to improve the team game. Support, pace, offloads. Die for each other attitude. Losing not an option.

Imagine this and you will understand.

What if BOD, Wilko, Shane Williams and Martyn Williams had been all blacks.

BOD would have been considered an all black legend like the world has never seen. He would have knocked socks off Umaga, Smith, McAllister and Nonu etc

Shane Williams would have scored a frightening amount of tries and would probably be regarded higher than Lomu. Remember how many rubbish Wales teams he played in but still scored many tries against the top rugby nations.

Wilko would be just as good as Carter.

Martyn Williams rugby brain in an all black side and his pace/handling would have been unreal.

Yes Carter and McCaw are great players but NZ are strong because they make a perfect team. They win the world cup with their 19th choice fly half

"Wilko would be just as good as Carter." -- Never. Wilko lacks, and has always lacked, pace. Carter has all the skills, which makes him the greatest flyhalf I've ever seen (and I've seen some greats over the years!).

James Hook would have shone in an All Black team.

RogerLewis wrote:James Hook would have shone in an All Black team.

Ospreys wore all black and he didnt exactly shine. Just saying.

GunsGerms wrote:

RogerLewis wrote:James Hook would have shone in an All Black team.

Ospreys wore all black and he didnt exactly shine. Just saying.

Do you even know who James Hook is?

One man doesn't make a team.

Cannot argue with that. But one man can have a big influence on the team. And Dan Carter does have a big influence of on the All black team.

RogerLewis wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

RogerLewis wrote:James Hook would have shone in an All Black team.

Ospreys wore all black and he didnt exactly shine. Just saying.

Do you even know who James Hook is?

Yes he is an ochre, rugby playing, Dean Gaffney lookalike.

Poorfour wrote:A key thing with New Zealand is that their players all develop playing the same sort of game, which I think is key to their ability to replace pretty much any player and not miss a beat. The level of understanding between the players amplifies their abilities.

Carter is a fantastic player, but I'm with King_Carlos. If they hadn't had him, or if he'd been injured for an extended period, they could always have turned to Nick Evans, and even without Evans they can now turn to Slade, Cruden and, erm, Donald.

If any player has been critical to their success over the last decade, I'd say it's McCaw. But I bet they will find a decent replacement even for him.

They have, Sam Cane

Guys we can't use the excuse "they only look so good because they play for the All-blacks" for every All-black player, it doesn't make any logical sense as an argument. There is a combo of reasons that the All-Blacks are the best team in the world, but one major one is that all the players they select in their 22, because the development is so good or the club game is strong or whatever reason, would all probably make the top 5 minimum, more likely top 3 in their positions in the World. Scrum Half used to be the exception, but I think Smith could be there

Just wondering about what the psychological effect of having to play against Carter does for the opposition.

I for one feel the ABs are so much more vulnerable without him. I swore as soon as I read the news. Face it, the guy has a claim to be the best 10 of all time, and the quality of players that he directs is second to none ensuring that most teams will have to play out of their skins to knock over the All Blacks. We had a brilliant replacement in 07 but that was such a sh*t the bed game where everything went wrong and they both got injured. France dominating possession last year turned out to be a blessing in disguise as believe it or not Donald is absolute world class in defence (we only soil ourselves when he HAS the ball). With Carter at the helm I think we'd have won the WC far more comfortably, taking all variables out of the equation. Hope he can do it in three years time.

Think RL exaggerates a bit-a lot of those players he mentioned might have struggled to make the NZ side, not due to their quality but style of play eg Wilkinson whom I have a lot of time for.

Don't underestimate Cruden though. Ireland did indeed find that out to their detriment. He's not quite there yet I feel but still can tear you apart and won't need a second invitation to do so.

And there you go. Just confirmed he's out.

Who in? Cruden?

Yup

Cruden is probably the 2nd best FH in the world - and a lot better than Preistland which is all that matters.

Shane Williams better than Lomu? Having a laugh

Lomu was a once in a century player... We're just lucky we were around to see the man play. If he played today he'd be just as effective. I remember him bouncing off dallaglio, Johnson and vickery like it was the ABs vs some U12 side.

Note, for half his career he was literally disabled.

Shane Williams wasn't even better than Jason Robinson... If he spent his entire career in union he would have passed campese's all time record for sure. I'd also rank Cullen, caucau and ngwenya over him in the pro era... Still class and worthy of the above group though.

The reason why the all blacks aren't as good when they come to Europe as all are well past their sell by date by then. They only come to bump up their pension and buy that farm back home.

They don't play with the same intensity... Because they're not challenging for a AB shirt.

I always thought macaw was more important that carter to the ABs anyhow... When mccaw is injured the ABs just aren't the same team. Carter they can cover to an extent and proved this throughout the last few years... I.e. the rwc final with the 5th best 10 in NZ was good enough to steer NZ to victory.... As in carter, slade, cruden, Evans and then Donald.