Who should replace Andy Robinson? (Part 1)

Plenty of threads picking over the bones of AR's coaching career with Scotland but I'd like to get away from that and look to the future. Clearly, there is a potential gulf between the head coach that a lot of us would like and a coach that the SRU would appoint. Principal considerations for the blazered McBumferties are:

(a) the costs involved with buying out the contracts of coaches already gainfully employed elsewhere;

(b) the costs involved with letting any new coach bring their existing team with them, rather than having to use Scott Johnson and Matt Taylor whose contracts would have to be terminated at cost;

(c) the risk involved with someone inexperienced in NH rugby and/or with existing Scotland players;

(d) the brickbats they may receive by choosing someone without an international track record; and

(e) the concern of possibly allowing a SH coach to be appointed who may be less than deferential to the SRU.

This list does not purport to be exhaustive but what do posters think about the following options:

A. Sean Lineen

1. Arguments for: at Glasgow for 6 years, knows huge amount about Scottish rugby, track record of making a lot of a little talent, passionate and able to instill this in the players, has a good track record with defense coaches, the public like him.

2. Arguments against: many feel that he had taken Glasgow as far as he could with his modest talents, no particular history as a forwards coach, never actually won anything with Glasgow (apart from the 1872 Cup ). Does he really have the necessary pedigree?

3. Realistically?: Looks likely. Ousted spuriously by Mark Dodson and Graham Lowe in order to gift Scotland's best coaching job to Townsend - he would doubtless love to return and prove the SRU wrong. Still on the SRU pay grade in his new role as talent spotter - his availablity may be key.

B. Scott Johnson

i. Arguments for: international experience with the Wallabies and US Eagles, attack is supposed to be his strong suit, er, happens to be living in Edinburgh at the moment...

ii. Arguments against: time with the Wallabies was a disaster, known from his time with the Tahs to be a blunt (possibly even abrasive) character and so possibly too coarse for SRU tastes to be the national team spokesperson, many Ospreys fans feel that he added little to the coaching set up and lived somewhat vicariously on the team's success, has never been a head coach at this level.

iii. Realistically?: Difficult to tell but as second in command, may be appointed caretaker-general coach by default and be given this year's Six Nations to prove himself. Has to be regarded as 'unproven' at best and an enormous gamble at worst.

C. Gregor Townsend

i. Arguments for: very few - he has taken Glasgow to third place in the Robocop table at present and has managed not to set his hair on fire, tie his shoelaces together or evacuate his bowels live at a press conference (yet).

ii. Arguments against: track record as Scotland attack coach was so woeful it was hilarious, relatively speaking he remains hopeless inexperienced as a coach.

iii. Realistically?: Unlikely - he will be tainted as a product of the Robinson regime and be regarded as a step away from meaningful change rather than a step towards it.

D. Michael Bradley

i. Arguments for: has international experience as acting coach of Ireland in 2008 and did a good job at Cork Constitution and Connacht with relatively little money and talent, coached Scotland A as an undefeated team for 2 years, including victories against Ireland, Italy, the USA and Tonga and was in charge for the well regarded 35-0 defeat of England Saxons in February 2012, took Edinburgh to a Heineken Cup semi final (first time ever for a Scottish franchise), by all accounts a thoroughly nice chap.

ii. Arguments against: Edinburgh's league form has sucked a variety of elderly individuals' genitalia since he took over, team has been horribly inconsistent and the coach has seemingly been powerless to stop this continuing into this season.

iii. Realistically?: No. The magical pixie dust of the Heineken Cup run has already worn off and Edinburgh's season in the HC and in the league are already over. It would be associating the new head coach with failure before he ever starts.

E. Other candidates with successful international experience

1. Eddie O'Sullivan

i. Arguments for: international experience with Ireland and the US Eagles, won 3 triple crowns with Ireland (2004, 2006 and 2007) making him the most successful Irish coach in the modern era, much liked by players, backs play a specialty.

ii. Arguments against: many Irish fans blame his poor preparation on their terribly disappointing 2007 RWC campaign and their abject 2008 Six Nations which led to his dismissal, some may feel he is not the kind to light a fire under poorly performing players.

iii. Realistically?: Very serious possibility. Would tick a lot of SRU boxes and his gentlemanly ways would be a good fit for the more traditional SRU members.

2. Graham Henry

i. Arguments for: coached Wales as well as the Lions so knowledge of UK and Irish rugby is good, the quintessential tactician and man motivator.

ii. Arguments against: 66 now and a RWC winning coach - may not be interested in another international post, famously cost Wales 250,000 nicker a year so surely out of the SRU's league.

iii. Realistically?: No. Has reached the top of his profession - would he really coach Scotland with all of the limitations this would bring? Surely a bit like dating again once you've been married to Deepika Padukone or Marion Cotillard.

3. Nick Mallett

i. Arguments for: solid international time with the Springboks and Italy - has taken Italy to their highest ever world rankings and his Sprinbok's winning streak of 17 consecutive test wins remains a national record, his Bokke teams are also responsible for the biggest winning margins against notable opposition - e.g. 52–10 win against France in Paris, a 68–10 win over Scotland in Edinburgh, a 33–0 defeat of Ireland and a 96–13 against Wales, much liked and clearly an arch motivator and no-nonsense hard arse.

ii. Arguments against: potentially abrasive and therefore uncontrollable by the SRU, apparently turned down England because of concerns about RFU interference which cannot be much less of a concern with the McBumfertie squad.

iii. Realistically?: possible, although the press will flush out in forthcoming weeks whether he's considering this seriously or not.

4. Jacques Brunel

i. Arguments for: included in this category due to his time as France assistant coach where he primed the forwards for the 2007 RWC, record with Perpignan was very good indeed and had some barnstorming wins, is taking Italy from strength to strength now.

ii. Arguments against: known to be a homebody and prior to taking over with Italy has only ever coached in France, at 58 will he really want a challenge of coaching a national side in English.

iii. Realistically?: would be a very good choice indeed and has coached exciting sides but it's hard to believe that he'll be first on the SRU radar.

5. Marc Lièvremont

i. Arguments for: four years of solid national experience with France, took his side to a 2010 6N grand slam and a 2007 RWC Final, known to be a quiet tactician and is an astute reader of the game.

ii. Arguments against: the only person in rugby with a more inconsistent selection policy than Andy Robinson - may not bring the stability that is craved, appalling revelations from Imanol Harinordoquy that the players had basically coached themselves during the latter stages of the RWC as they had effectively lost confidence in their coach, not backwards in coming forwards, comments in press conference criticising his own players have become famous.

iii. Realistically?: hard to come to any other conclusion than the SRU will consider him too much of a risk.

6. Bernard Laporte

i. Arguments for: currently taking Toulon to the top of the Top 14, an absolutely stellar record when managing France - 4 Six Nations championships, 2 grand slams, 4th place at 2003 Rugby World Cup, a smooth public speaker and statesman, exactly as slick as the SRU could hope for.

ii. Arguments against: never managed outside France - what are the odds that Scotland can persuade him to abandon the south coast of France for a cold sandstone in Edinburgh old town, may not seem like a realistic option.

iii. Realistically?: very difficult to see Big Bernie putting down the soft cheese and burgandy for a McSween's and a bottle of Buckie.

7. Robbie Deans

i. Arguments for: has won more Super rugby titles than any other coach, has ridden the gamut of ups and downs as Aussie coach, has seen it all and is resilient, would be a prestige capture for the SRU, may well want to get away from the media circus that accompanies him during SANZAR games.

ii. Arguments against: extremely inconsistent results with the Wallabies, has shown every indication of wanting to stay with his current national side, may regard another international role as too much of a hassle given the nature of NH press, may simply want a break, has never coached in the northern hemisphere and has not spoken about doing so.

iii. Realistically?: a definitely possibility although would need to be given the welly by the men in gold first of all, may also be simply out of the financial range of the SRU.

8. Eddie Jones

i. Arguments for: formal international experience with Wallabies and Japan, informally was appointed by Jake White to be the technical adviser of the Springboks for the Rugby World Cup in France where he was credited as the brain behind the success of the South African Springboks side, a true scholar of the game and a no-bs motivator, has been a consultant to Saracens so the NH game is not completely unfamiliar.

ii. Arguments against: wildly differing results depending on whom he's coached, win-loss ratio is the lowest of any Wallabies coach, great results at the Brumbies, abysmal results at the Reds, well known for a massive falling out with the Aussie rugby union leading to him publicly saying he won't coach in Australia again.

iii. Realistically?: exceptionally hard to tell - he is clearly still interested in the coaching game and (at the time of writing) Scotland would still be a step up from Japan, might be considered a troublesome character.

Part 2: "Other candidates with successful franchise/regional experience" is here:
https://www.606v2.com/t37746-who-should-replace-andy-robinson-part-2

It will either be Scott Johnson or either the Glasgow or Edinburgh coaches I doubt Scotland have the resources to buy out another coaches contract and not to be too unkind but who'd want the job?

Shifty wrote:It will either be Scott Johnson or either the Glasgow or Edinburgh coaches I doubt Scotland have the resources to buy out another coaches contract and not to be too unkind but who'd want the job?

I have an idea, why don't we get rid of Atiga and other useless, old and expensive players at the pro teams and use that money to pay a very good coach an awful lot of money with a results based clause e.g If he doesn't finish 3rd or above in the six nations, doesn't reach the quarter final of the RWC or has a less than 50% win rate during a year.
Money should be out of the question, Scotland need a top coach - someone better than Robinson who can take them further. Robinson took Scotland as far as he could, it is testament to him that we believed we could beat the Springboks and that the result of that game was bad. Under Hadden most would describe it as a valiant effort rather than a bad result however the group of players we have now should be competing for the six nations and reaching quarter-finals and semi-finals not being outclassed by a Tonga team who played thirty minutes with fourteen men.

123456789 wrote:

Shifty wrote:It will either be Scott Johnson or either the Glasgow or Edinburgh coaches I doubt Scotland have the resources to buy out another coaches contract and not to be too unkind but who'd want the job?

I have an idea, why don't we get rid of Atiga and other useless, old and expensive players at the pro teams and use that money to pay a very good coach an awful lot of money with a results based clause e.g If he doesn't finish 3rd or above in the six nations, doesn't reach the quarter final of the RWC or has a less than 50% win rate during a year.
Money should be out of the question, Scotland need a top coach - someone better than Robinson who can take them further. Robinson took Scotland as far as he could, it is testament to him that we believed we could beat the Springboks and that the result of that game was bad. Under Hadden most would describe it as a valiant effort rather than a bad result however the group of players we have now should be competing for the six nations and reaching quarter-finals and semi-finals not being outclassed by a Tonga team who played thirty minutes with fourteen men.

I don't see what more Scottish fans could want, your already doing as well as it's realistic to do. Look at the talent being hammered out by Welsh and Irish academies and your always going to struggle against mamouth countries England and France who produce players for fun. Scotland can't really do any better you just don't have the talent and depth, not to mention the professional teams who can pay the wages to compete with the other 6 Nations teams. It's just a sad fact of where Scottish rugby has been since the turn of the century.

I don't think Scott Johnson will be good as head coach for Scotland. As said, he failed badly with Oz, and when he was with Ospreys yes he did beat the Wallabies but really how much was down to him, or just a good squad?

Mallet or Henry would be a great coup for Scotland, and I think will do very well. Heard elsewhere Jake white mentioned, but as he's in Oz at the mo think he'll consider Wallabies over Scotland if we let deans go... besides warmer there than Scotland!! Though he'd use the Scottish forwards well.

Eddie Jones? Well I liked him for his success with the backs, probably not suited to Scotland's style. not saying Scotland has no sizzlining backs, just it doesn't come to my thoughts first when I think of Scotland.

Good luck to you guys whoever you appoint, have you down as my 2nd team on another post.

I would add that Sean Lineen has a reputation for alienating players to his cons.

Tbh, I'm not interested in any of the candidates listed on part 1, GC, although i would like to see Chick Chalmers included somewhere in the set-up - so he's rubbed a few blazers up the wrong way and speaks his mind when tight lips might be more politically acceptable, but the guy has a keen rugby brain, allied with the typical Borderer will to do what it takes to win (ie Telfer-esque)

Shifty wrote:

123456789 wrote:

Shifty wrote:It will either be Scott Johnson or either the Glasgow or Edinburgh coaches I doubt Scotland have the resources to buy out another coaches contract and not to be too unkind but who'd want the job?

I have an idea, why don't we get rid of Atiga and other useless, old and expensive players at the pro teams and use that money to pay a very good coach an awful lot of money with a results based clause e.g If he doesn't finish 3rd or above in the six nations, doesn't reach the quarter final of the RWC or has a less than 50% win rate during a year.
Money should be out of the question, Scotland need a top coach - someone better than Robinson who can take them further. Robinson took Scotland as far as he could, it is testament to him that we believed we could beat the Springboks and that the result of that game was bad. Under Hadden most would describe it as a valiant effort rather than a bad result however the group of players we have now should be competing for the six nations and reaching quarter-finals and semi-finals not being outclassed by a Tonga team who played thirty minutes with fourteen men.

I don't see what more Scottish fans could want, your already doing as well as it's realistic to do. Look at the talent being hammered out by Welsh and Irish academies and your always going to struggle against mamouth countries England and France who produce players for fun. Scotland can't really do any better you just don't have the talent and depth, not to mention the professional teams who can pay the wages to compete with the other 6 Nations teams. It's just a sad fact of where Scottish rugby has been since the turn of the century.

I don't think you're right, I think we have the best second row in the Northern Hemisphere, our depth in the back row is fantastic, arguably the best finisher in Europe and players like Stuart Hogg, Sean Maitland, Matt Scott, Ryan Grant, Euan Murray and Ross Ford are also top quality. I'm not saying that this is the best team in Europe, but it is better than losing to Tonga, better than two wins in fifteen six nations games and better than going out in the group stage. I honestly believe that it is only outside centre and full back that we have the weakest player in Britain and that's only because of the outstanding quality at full back. We are now nearing a point where we have two top quality players in each position (in some three). When you say what more could we want, we want a coach that can get the best out of the best Scotland side for years, a coach that produces results and some consistency, currently we go from average autumn, to bad six nations, to good summer, to average autumn etc. except this year the autumn has been unacceptable.

I would go with Lineen for the Six Nations. Do we have a summer tour for 2013? If so keep him on for that too.

He knows all the players well and had a few good seasons with Glasgow. My reservation with him is that he was slow to bring in a few players with Glasgow, although that could have been due to sevens duty etc. If he gets a good return from the Six Nations - with three home games - we could look at keeping him long term but I'm struggling to think of someone who will want the job and be able to cope with how the game in Scotland 'works'.

Bradley will be lucky to have a job at Edinburgh come the end of the season and his selection policy is starting to look as hare-brained as Rob Moffat's. To be brutally honest, we could get Graham Henry and still be crap.

I think we're taking part in some sort of competition in South Africa because France are in New Zealand and the Lions are in Australia. I think we should go for someone with experience coaching either NZ or SA and keep Johnson and Taylor involved.

I'd keep Lineen in his current role, he seems to be doing a decent job of finding us talent and recruiting new Scots to the cause. He did a great job of forming Glasgow into a tough, hard-nosed and pragmatic side, but nevertheless they were a limited side under Lineen, and he doesn't have any relevant experience of international rugby.

For me the dream team would be Mallett and Meehan reuniting, with Mallett in overall control of all things Scottish rugby, and Meehan charged with improving the backs. Another high pedigree option would be Wayne Smith, but I still doubt whether he's a good front man, so perhaps Blackadder in control of strategy with Smith tasked with the attack. I suspect these options are pie in the sky, particularly Blackadder, but these options would be on my initial wishlist and I'd start exploring them tomorrow morning.

Hopefully the SRU won't just draw up a list of coaches who are "available" either. I want to hear of them really picking their top targets and going after the man they believe is the best possible fit for the job. I can't see that man just being another SRU current appointee, like Taylor, Johnson, Bradley, Lineen or Toonie.

As for ASBO's suggestion of Chalmers, he may well be the man to take over from Bradley if Edinburgh are stuffed by Glasgow twice in December, my criterion for sending a P45 in his direction. I'm not saying he'd be my choice, but he deserves to make the shortlist.

funnyExiledScot wrote:I'd keep Lineen in his current role, he seems to be doing a decent job of finding us talent and recruiting new Scots to the cause. He did a great job of forming Glasgow into a tough, hard-nosed and pragmatic side, but nevertheless they were a limited side under Lineen, and he doesn't have any relevant experience of international rugby.

For me the dream team would be Mallett and Meehan reuniting, with Mallett in overall control of all things Scottish rugby, and Meehan charged with improving the backs. Another high pedigree option would be Wayne Smith, but I still doubt whether he's a good front man, so perhaps Blackadder in control of strategy with Smith tasked with the attack. I suspect these options are pie in the sky, particularly Blackadder, but these options would be on my initial wishlist and I'd start exploring them tomorrow morning.

Hopefully the SRU won't just draw up a list of coaches who are "available" either. I want to hear of them really picking their top targets and going after the man they believe is the best possible fit for the job. I can't see that man just being another SRU current appointee, like Taylor, Johnson, Bradley, Lineen or Toonie.

As for ASBO's suggestion of Chalmers, he may well be the man to take over from Bradley if Edinburgh are stuffed by Glasgow twice in December, my criterion for sending a P45 in his direction. I'm not saying he'd be my choice, but he deserves to make the shortlist.

If Chalmers does get the Edinburgh job it's going to make McKie feel pretty bad about shutting the borders team down, two borderers in charge and god knows how many playing.

Todd Blackadder would be good and he could use us as a springboard to the NZ job much like Henry and Hansen, he knows the Scottish game and will know how to get a back line moving.

Lineen as a caretaker - Todd Blackadder would be my choice.


We do not want another coach who is a failure elsewhere - so of the people with international experience only Mallett could do. we want an up and coming antipodean.

Scott Johnson must go as well - useless failure with a track record of nothing but failure

Shifty wrote:It will either be Scott Johnson or either the Glasgow or Edinburgh coaches I doubt Scotland have the resources to buy out another coaches contract and not to be too unkind but who'd want the job?

A young up and coming coach with their eye on a top job. How good would it be for the CV to take Scotland back up the rankings and make them competitive again.

I don't see what more Scottish fans could want, your already doing as well as it's realistic to do. Look at the talent being hammered out by Welsh and Irish academies and your always going to struggle against mamouth countries England and France who produce players for fun. Scotland can't really do any better you just don't have the talent and depth, not to mention the professional teams who can pay the wages to compete with the other 6 Nations teams. It's just a sad fact of where Scottish rugby has been since the turn of the century

We may not have the depth but we do have the taqlent - its just Robinson has ruined them with the wrong selections and the wrong tactics. this is the best group of scotland players since 1990. Well worth a top half of the 6N and top eight in the rankings

Imperialbigdave wrote:I would add that Sean Lineen has a reputation for alienating players to his cons.

Yep, that would be my biggest concern regarding Lineen. I heard it from some guests of mine this summer (who knew someone in the SRU) that Lineen fell out big time with Beattie and not just him, other players at Glasgow too, which was a big reason for his move. Apparently it was kept quiet because SRU knew fans really liked Lineen and didn't want to upset them by sacking him. Either way, I think Lineen is definitely a no go.

If he were Scottish I would have said Rob Baxter - a man who is quick to learn, has demonstrated he has the ability to create a team greater than the sum of it's parts and has a bit of dog.

I do feel however that it has to be someone with a good grasp of the Scottish ethos, who is passionate about Scotland winning. Jetting in SH coaches does not have a great record of sustained success. (Henry and Hansen started well but then struggled. Gatland struggled in Ireland and by the time he took over Wales was completely immersed in NH rugby, Mallett and Kirwan both struggled to impose their ideas in Italy - and do we need to mention Matt Williams?)

I am not sure who fits my requirements.

A better question would be "who would want to replace AR?"? Given our standing and ranking, no one worth their salt would want the job. That said, under no circumstances should Sean Lineen get it. He had a great squad at Glasgow, did very little with them and the style of play he used only encouraged paint sales at B&Q as watching your wall dry was more interesting than watching Glasgow huff and puff their way through a game.
If he was daft or desparate enough, I would like to see Todd Blackadder

Blackadder played a year in Scotland and coached a year as well.

Who would want the job? A young up and coming coach who wants to make a mark / reputation

TJ - Blackadder played for a lot longer than one year for Edinburgh. I remember using the coaching skills given to me by several pints of Guinness to tell TB where I thought Edinburgh were going wrong when he was captain. He took it in good spirit, thankfully, and didn't punch my lights out.

TJ - Blackadder played for a lot longer than one year for Edinburgh. I remember using the coaching skills given to me by several pints of Guinness to tell TB where I thought Edinburgh were going wrong when he was captain. He took it in good spirit, thankfully, and didn't punch my lights out.

I thought he played a full year then the following year a player coach?

whatever - He would be my first target. gained experience now as a coach and been reasonably successful I understand. Some link / knowledge of Scotland. ambitious but not going to a real top job yet.

For him - or someone like him the job would be a gamble but if it paid off? The group of players are good enough to do a lot better and win a 6 Nations in the next few years. think after the next world cup - Blackadder ( or whoever) gets Scotland to a six nations win, top 6 in the rankings and a WC semi final with a good team playing good rugby - good CV for the top job he really wants.

Scotland will never get the top coaches at the top of their career. So the choice is either an up and coming coach or someone who is second rate or a previous failure. I want to try the young ambitious coach route now.

None of the Scots candidates are ready now I don't think
Chalmers - needs to do something in the pro game somewhere if he really wants the Scotland job one day.
Redpath - not having a good time right now. Again I want to see him prove himself sucessful
Townsend - no. Just no.
Lineen - caretaker only I would say. Not quite got it.

TJ - I totally agree with you about TB being a great choice. At the risk of name dropping, I almost bought a car from his dad when in Christchurch a few years ago. His dad said that he had enjoyed Scotland but I think he went back because his kid was about to start school. Whether he wants to uproot his family is a big question. He may also have been put off by his time as part of the Matt Williams era. Lets hope not!

funnyExiledScot wrote:I'd keep Lineen in his current role, he seems to be doing a decent job of finding us talent and recruiting new Scots to the cause.

What percentage of new signings this year have actually been Scottish? A lot of them won't be able to play for Scotland till 2015.

He still found them and convinced them to get on a plane Crypto. Most of them will be eligible by the time the next RWC comes around.

Very few top drawer players are automatically Scots qualified through birth - Maitland and Patrick Lambie being the two that spring to mind.

Getting Nel and Strauss to consider coming over here and spending precious playing career years becoming Scots qualified deserves nothing but applause. They are both excellent young players whom people already feel should have played for the Boks.

Always one who wants to support my fellow Celts you can Howley, hell I am sure some of us on here would chip and pay his air fare upto you.

George Carlin wrote:He still found them and convinced them to get on a plane Crypto. Most of them will be eligible by the time the next RWC comes around.

Very few top drawer players are automatically Scots qualified through birth - Maitland and Patrick Lambie being the two that spring to mind.

Getting Nel and Strauss to consider coming over here and spending precious playing career years becoming Scots qualified deserves nothing but applause. They are both excellent young players whom people already feel should have played for the Boks.

I wouldn't go as far as saying it deserves nothing but applause. The next few years could be pretty rocky in terms of injuries for the national team, as has already been seen this year. Saying 'Don't worry, if this were 2015 we would be able to call on WP Nel' is hardly reassuring. Furthermore, if the likes of Strauss do actually play well there isn't really that much from an English or French team buying them off us. It's not as if contracts in sport always get the respect they deserve.

Surely we need our best players qualified for Scotland now? Giving them a season of international rugby and expecting them to gel into a team that can do anything in what will undoubtedly be a difficult RWC group is ambitious to say the least. You can see roughly what England and Wales's teams for the next RWC are going to be, Ireland's will be clearer once the old guard retire at the end of this season and France could field two or three teams capable of doing well at international level. I don't think it's fair to hamstring the next Scotland coach by reminding them that come the 2014-2015 season, they'll have to completely re-jig the team they have spent so long developing by changing its spine at the last minute. Add to that that financial constraints will probably mean the next coach will have to keep on some of Robinson's staff rather than choose their own and I could see why very few coaches would be interested in the Scotland job.

Hopefully Declan Kidney will replace Robinson. Jokes aside all in all I thought Andy Robinson did quite well in the job.

Cryptoyourisan wrote:

George Carlin wrote:He still found them and convinced them to get on a plane Crypto. Most of them will be eligible by the time the next RWC comes around.

Very few top drawer players are automatically Scots qualified through birth - Maitland and Patrick Lambie being the two that spring to mind.

Getting Nel and Strauss to consider coming over here and spending precious playing career years becoming Scots qualified deserves nothing but applause. They are both excellent young players whom people already feel should have played for the Boks.

I wouldn't go as far as saying it deserves nothing but applause. The next few years could be pretty rocky in terms of injuries for the national team, as has already been seen this year. Saying 'Don't worry, if this were 2015 we would be able to call on WP Nel' is hardly reassuring. Furthermore, if the likes of Strauss do actually play well there isn't really that much from an English or French team buying them off us. It's not as if contracts in sport always get the respect they deserve.

Surely we need our best players qualified for Scotland now? Giving them a season of international rugby and expecting them to gel into a team that can do anything in what will undoubtedly be a difficult RWC group is ambitious to say the least. You can see roughly what England and Wales's teams for the next RWC are going to be, Ireland's will be clearer once the old guard retire at the end of this season and France could field two or three teams capable of doing well at international level. I don't think it's fair to hamstring the next Scotland coach by reminding them that come the 2014-2015 season, they'll have to completely re-jig the team they have spent so long developing by changing its spine at the last minute. Add to that that financial constraints will probably mean the next coach will have to keep on some of Robinson's staff rather than choose their own and I could see why very few coaches would be interested in the Scotland job.

I am sensing that your particular glass may be half-empty, Crypto?

GunsGerms wrote:Hopefully Declan Kidney will replace Robinson. Jokes aside all in all I thought Andy Robinson did quite well in the job.

How can you say this with a whitewash in the 6 n, failure at the WC and a slide down the rankings? he has been an awful disaster.

Pat Lam isnt doing much . well apart from being technical advisor to samoa, so hes as good anyone's from next week.

George Carlin wrote:

Cryptoyourisan wrote:

George Carlin wrote:He still found them and convinced them to get on a plane Crypto. Most of them will be eligible by the time the next RWC comes around.

Very few top drawer players are automatically Scots qualified through birth - Maitland and Patrick Lambie being the two that spring to mind.

Getting Nel and Strauss to consider coming over here and spending precious playing career years becoming Scots qualified deserves nothing but applause. They are both excellent young players whom people already feel should have played for the Boks.

I wouldn't go as far as saying it deserves nothing but applause. The next few years could be pretty rocky in terms of injuries for the national team, as has already been seen this year. Saying 'Don't worry, if this were 2015 we would be able to call on WP Nel' is hardly reassuring. Furthermore, if the likes of Strauss do actually play well there isn't really that much from an English or French team buying them off us. It's not as if contracts in sport always get the respect they deserve.

Surely we need our best players qualified for Scotland now? Giving them a season of international rugby and expecting them to gel into a team that can do anything in what will undoubtedly be a difficult RWC group is ambitious to say the least. You can see roughly what England and Wales's teams for the next RWC are going to be, Ireland's will be clearer once the old guard retire at the end of this season and France could field two or three teams capable of doing well at international level. I don't think it's fair to hamstring the next Scotland coach by reminding them that come the 2014-2015 season, they'll have to completely re-jig the team they have spent so long developing by changing its spine at the last minute. Add to that that financial constraints will probably mean the next coach will have to keep on some of Robinson's staff rather than choose their own and I could see why very few coaches would be interested in the Scotland job.

I am sensing that your particular glass may be half-empty, Crypto?

Nah, my glass has been smashed and is lying in bits on the floor.

Superglue Crypto?? Ebay offer 2 tubes for 1p ( plus £10 postage )

OzT wrote:Superglue Crypto?? Ebay offer 2 tubes for 1p ( plus £10 postage )

Two tubes for one pence? I wonder how much the SRU would pay for two tubes.

Cryptoyourisan wrote:

George Carlin wrote:

Cryptoyourisan wrote:

George Carlin wrote:He still found them and convinced them to get on a plane Crypto. Most of them will be eligible by the time the next RWC comes around.

Very few top drawer players are automatically Scots qualified through birth - Maitland and Patrick Lambie being the two that spring to mind.

Getting Nel and Strauss to consider coming over here and spending precious playing career years becoming Scots qualified deserves nothing but applause. They are both excellent young players whom people already feel should have played for the Boks.

I wouldn't go as far as saying it deserves nothing but applause. The next few years could be pretty rocky in terms of injuries for the national team, as has already been seen this year. Saying 'Don't worry, if this were 2015 we would be able to call on WP Nel' is hardly reassuring. Furthermore, if the likes of Strauss do actually play well there isn't really that much from an English or French team buying them off us. It's not as if contracts in sport always get the respect they deserve.

Surely we need our best players qualified for Scotland now? Giving them a season of international rugby and expecting them to gel into a team that can do anything in what will undoubtedly be a difficult RWC group is ambitious to say the least. You can see roughly what England and Wales's teams for the next RWC are going to be, Ireland's will be clearer once the old guard retire at the end of this season and France could field two or three teams capable of doing well at international level. I don't think it's fair to hamstring the next Scotland coach by reminding them that come the 2014-2015 season, they'll have to completely re-jig the team they have spent so long developing by changing its spine at the last minute. Add to that that financial constraints will probably mean the next coach will have to keep on some of Robinson's staff rather than choose their own and I could see why very few coaches would be interested in the Scotland job.

I am sensing that your particular glass may be half-empty, Crypto?

Nah, my glass has been smashed and is lying in bits on the floor.

TJ wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Hopefully Declan Kidney will replace Robinson. Jokes aside all in all I thought Andy Robinson did quite well in the job.

How can you say this with a whitewash in the 6 n, failure at the WC and a slide down the rankings? he has been an awful disaster.

During that time Scotland also beat Australia in Australia, performed well v SA and NZ. He has actually produced some good results v SH teams.

Scotland also werent bad at all at the WC. Any team that has two higher ranked teams in their group is always going to be up against it. At least Scotland pushed England and Argentina close.

performed well against SA and NZ -by getting well beaten?

Just look at the results. simply not good enough. Look at the players - lacking confidence and confused.

One episode above all others shown Robinson incompetence.

Last 6 N. England were in disarray and there for the taking in the first match. Edinburgh had had a very successful HC campaign playing attacking rugby with Laidlaw in the form of his life running the show. Who does Robinson pick as 10? Parks having persuaded him to come out of retirement. The other backs were not the inform Edinburgh players and he picked Lamont at centre. we lost the game having showed no creativity at all and parks gifted England the winning points

Laidlaw had been playing with Blair and partenershp was important. They were not picked together until the 4th game IIRC

When the team play to below their ability then the coach is to blame. When the wrong players are selected then the coach is to blame

George Carlin wrote:He still found them and convinced them to get on a plane Crypto. Most of them will be eligible by the time the next RWC comes around.

Very few top drawer players are automatically Scots qualified through birth - Maitland and Patrick Lambie being the two that spring to mind.

Getting Nel and Strauss to consider coming over here and spending precious playing career years becoming Scots qualified deserves nothing but applause. They are both excellent young players whom people already feel should have played for the Boks.

Lineen had nothing to do with Nel's signing. I think people are getting a bit carried away with this idea that everyone who signs for the scottish teams was personally headhunted and convinced by Lineen, because every signing thats been made since Lineen stepped down from the warriors has had someone crediting him with it, when theres absolutley no evidence. Im sure some of them will have been down to him, but not all, and especially not someone who was signed before he stepped into this role.

If you thought Robinson was bad, just wait till Scott Johnson takes over the reigns... I cant understand how this clown keeps getting jobs... When getting the number 1 spot for Wales (as caretaker) he helped a Grand Slam team to 3 defeats (well 2 - but a draw to Italy in Cardiff is was as good as a defeat back in 2006). He was ineffective with the Ospreys, causing more harm than good... In my opinion, the guy is a clown.

Indeed - the appointment of Johnson was another Robinson error

Just please, no Scott Johnson!

Lineen seems the obvious choice when you take into consideration money. Also, who would want to coach us?

Personally I think Wayne Smith is a shout. Or Todd Blackadder if he decides he loved living in Edinburgh.

TJ wrote:performed well against SA and NZ -by getting well beaten?

Just look at the results. simply not good enough. Look at the players - lacking confidence and confused.

One episode above all others shown Robinson incompetence.

Last 6 N. England were in disarray and there for the taking in the first match. Edinburgh had had a very successful HC campaign playing attacking rugby with Laidlaw in the form of his life running the show. Who does Robinson pick as 10? Parks having persuaded him to come out of retirement. The other backs were not the inform Edinburgh players and he picked Lamont at centre. we lost the game having showed no creativity at all and parks gifted England the winning points

Laidlaw had been playing with Blair and partenershp was important. They were not picked together until the 4th game IIRC

When the team play to below their ability then the coach is to blame. When the wrong players are selected then the coach is to blame

Yes AR isnt the worlds best coach but in all fairness as Gavin Hastings says its actually going to be very difficult for Scotland to get a better manager. Who would take the job?

I actually think that Scotland should aim for EO'S. He would be able to get the best out of the Scotland backs and probably get them scoring trys again. He would also bring a lot of structure to Scotlands gameplan. I also think he would take the job.

Didn't do the Wallabies any favours either, hell we even lost to Ospreys, amongst others!!

Who would take the job?

A young ambitious coach who sees it as an opportunity to stake a claim for a top job. Scotland have better group of players than recent results. An ambitious coach would back himself to do well and could easily in 3 years take them well into the top 8 in the rankings, to win ( or close) In the 6N and to a WC semi or better. How good would that be on the CV when you apply for the top job somewhere?

TJ wrote:Who would take the job?

A young ambitious coach who sees it as an opportunity to stake a claim for a top job. Scotland have better group of players than recent results. An ambitious coach would back himself to do well and could easily in 3 years take them well into the top 8 in the rankings, to win ( or close) In the 6N and to a WC semi or better. How good would that be on the CV when you apply for the top job somewhere?

It isnt a top job anymore though. I say this respect because Scotland have a great rugby tradition but since the game turned pro Scotland have consistently struggled to fill Murrayfield and consistently been outside the top 8 in IRB rankings. They are also annual wooden spoon contenders.

I take your point about it being attractive for an ambitious young coach etc. but someone with a big reputation isnt likely to want it because it will be tough for Scotland to move forward with such a small player and fan base.

This is why I suggested EO'S because he doesnt have a great rep but is actually a very good manager. Brendan Venter or maybe even Dean Richards, someone looking to ressurect their careers with nothing to lose would also be good.

I agree Scotland is not a top job

Hence a young ambitious coach could use it as a springboard to a top job (ie Blackadder on his way to the NZ job). We won't get a top proven coach. The player base is far better than the results or rankings. Robinson has made a sows ear out of a silk purse.

You are wrong about selling out murreyfield or the rankings tho.

There does seem to be a number of people touting Sean Lineen for the job. He would be a bizarre (even by their standards) appointment by the SRU.

Its only a few months since he was removed (against his wishes) from the Glasgow job.

TJ wrote:I agree Scotland is not a top job

Hence a young ambitious coach could use it as a springboard to a top job (ie Blackadder on his way to the NZ job). We won't get a top proven coach. The player base is far better than the results or rankings. Robinson has made a sows ear out of a silk purse.

You are wrong about selling out murreyfield or the rankings tho.

Nov 12 Scotland ranked 9th
Dec 11 Scotland ranked 10th
Dec 10 Scotland ranked 7th
Dec 09 Scotland ranked 9th
Dec 08 Scotland ranked 9th
Dec 07 Scotland ranked 8th
Dec 06 Scotland ranked 9th
Dec 05 Scotland ranked 10th
Dec 04 Scotland ranked 9th
Dec 03 Scotland ranked 9th

They really have been consistently outside the top 8. In fact their best year in 10 years was 2010 and Robinson was in charge.

I might be wrong about attendances but I seem to remember lots of empty seats of the last few 6ns.

GunsGerms wrote:

TJ wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Hopefully Declan Kidney will replace Robinson. Jokes aside all in all I thought Andy Robinson did quite well in the job.

How can you say this with a whitewash in the 6 n, failure at the WC and a slide down the rankings? he has been an awful disaster.

During that time Scotland also beat Australia in Australia, performed well v SA and NZ. He has actually produced some good results v SH teams.

Scotland also werent bad at all at the WC. Any team that has two higher ranked teams in their group is always going to be up against it. At least Scotland pushed England and Argentina close.

I don't get these kind of attempts to try to put a positive spin on Scotland's recent exploits.

The 2012 Wallabies are probably as bad an Australian team as there has been in recent times. I don't think we can really consider what should have been a non-capped, mid-week game played in impossible conditions and in a rugby-league town to be that great an achievement. The South Africa game was a bit better but, again, how good were South Africa that day? I don't remember us ever playing well against the All Blacks; I'm too young to remember the tour games from 1990 but from the highlights I've seen we looked like a brilliant team then (because we were).

Scotland were unspeakably poor at the RWC. We were lucky to beat Romania and Georgia and Argentina and England didn't have great tournaments either. I think we were in the bottom five for tries scored at the RWC which is shocking. When that group was drawn I thought Scotland had a very good chance of winning it.

Think Lineen would be ok as an interim appointment only, a stop-gap if the right person is not immediately available. But there's no way in hell that Scott Johnston should be considered for that role, nor the permanent appointment - we must stop picking other nations' failures - it's just plain embarrassing

Agreed - I can't see on what basis Scott Johnson should get the job, unless it's the only option the SRU can afford.

I also don't think Lineen is the right man for the job. There's plenty time before the 6 Nations to appoint a new man. Not too fussed about an interim coach. If we must have an interim option, I'd just let the current backroom staff get on with it. Let's not waste another penny without getting a new top man in to sort things out. That must be the next step.

funnyExiledScot wrote:Agreed - I can't see on what basis Scott Johnson should get the job, unless it's the only option the SRU can afford.

I also don't think Lineen is the right man for the job. There's plenty time before the 6 Nations to appoint a new man. Not too fussed about an interim coach. If we must have an interim option, I'd just let the current backroom staff get on with it. Let's not waste another penny without getting a new top man in to sort things out. That must be the next step.

I am sure they could afford Chalmers - and even he would be better than Johnson