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A question for front rowers

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George Carlin
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Post by InjuredYetAgain Wed 28 Nov 2012, 10:03 pm

Here is something that I have wondered about for a while but wonder what the donkeys front row union think.
Every time Scotland (and Edinburgh for that matter) pack down for a scrum, we always "crouch" a second or two after the opposition which to me sends out the message that we aren't really lookimg forwrad to the next few seconds. To front-rowers out there, would you interpret this body language as an indication of a nervousness to scrum or am I just imagining it. I know that Ross Ford is a converted flanker but he in particular never seems to look particularly comfortable at scrum-time.
I must confess to knowing very little about front row play apart from knowing that every time our prop appeared half way down my back, we were likely to be in quick retreat and unlikely to be winning our own ball.
If I have used too many long words for any props out there, let me know and I will see if I can translate using smaller words.

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Post by TJ1 Wed 28 Nov 2012, 10:08 pm

Hmmmmmmm

Not a prop but I see it the other way - stamping authority by making the other team wait in "crouch"

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Post by Looseheaded Wed 28 Nov 2012, 10:11 pm

I personally wouldn't consider that as a sign of fear or a lack of confidence going into the scrum. It'd lead me to believe that they have less comfort with each other, as they are struggling to set up quickly, and suggests they are possibly inexperienced in scrummaging together.

Either that or the hooker's a fussy Bar Steward.

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Post by wasps Wed 28 Nov 2012, 11:13 pm

We used to have a prepared move at scrum time where we would purposely wait a couple of seconds before crouching.
Mainly, we were waiting for the opposition to start looking up at us to see what we were doing.
Once they had done that, they had often moved themselves out of position slightly and were no longer as solid as they were before.

Obviously, if you do it all the time, it loses something.

On the whole, I usually wanted to be set and settled before we hit so I was quite happy to be down and crouched before the opposition

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Post by mckay1402 Thu 29 Nov 2012, 4:57 am

I played hooker and I would think it's a psychological ploy. Like your man says above, is to get the opposition to wear their legs out a bit. It's not easy staying in that crouch position with all the Wright of the pack coming through you and the less time you have to do it the better. I certainly wouldn't judge them on that. I'd judge them on the next few seconds. How the hit goes and where they end up.
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Post by George Carlin Thu 29 Nov 2012, 6:52 am

If you watch Owen and Ben Franks, they're always down and waiting before anyone else.
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Post by LondonTiger Thu 29 Nov 2012, 11:27 am

I moved to hooker after the first time I broke my neck (interesting choice Smile ).

As others have suggested getting ready second is just a ploy to try and eke out an advantage. I also liked to wait for the opposition to crouch then go lower and drive up at them.

All games really - Scottish front rows always look up for the fight to me.

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Post by tigertattie Thu 29 Nov 2012, 11:44 am

oh don't be mistaken. In no way are the Edinburgh or Scotland front rows scared of scrumtime.

Look at Euan Murray, he is amost drooling at the propest of hitting someone when he is getting ready for a scrum.

If you watch/listen closely you will hear the ref shouting crouch, then a second later you will see/hear Ross Ford say crouch. When Ford is in the scrum he takes charge as to what his scrum will do. He will only tell his front row to crouch when he belives his whole scrum is ready for the off. This is something they will do in every game and something they will do in training. Mostly it is making sure that your scrum is ready, part of it is gamemanship to try and put off your opponents!
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Post by Submachine Thu 29 Nov 2012, 12:01 pm

If you look at the leinster front rows, they form up in the crouch position. I think it's to do with not having to readjust when going from the standing to the crouch position .Always happens when you have a front row made up of guys of varying heights. The hooker is usually quite a bit shorter than the TH these days.

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Post by BelfastDickVet Thu 29 Nov 2012, 12:04 pm

I have always played tighthead, and to be honest I have never paid much attention to pause before crouching as its more about feeling stable and ready, I don't think it's a telling sign of nerves etc. you can tell more by the enthusiasm they exhibit when they bind, their body language when packing down, the speed at which they come accross to pack down in the scrummage.

I don't think the front rows of Scotland or Edinburgh are nervous in the scrummage. Any front row worth his salt will live for the battle of the scrumage. That's how they earn their reputations. If you weren't a particulary good scrummager, then you would go into each scrum to prove a point.

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