Gatland says Heaslip potential Lions captain.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/international/2012/1128/355678-gatland-lists-heaslip-as-potential-lions-captain/

This is interesting, as recently on here a lot of Ireland fans have been saying that they would drop Heaslip who isn't in great form at No.8 for a returning Sean O'Brien. I think it demonstrates the lack of potential captains for the Lions tour after the AI's. If you go through the home nations and their captains, Robshaw has demonstrated on two occasions that his decision making is suspect and many want him dropped as England captain. Warburton may not be first choice 7 for Wales and definitely wouldn't be my first choice 7 for the Lions and I don't see any Scottish contenders for the Lions captaincy particularly given Ross Ford's horrendous form, he'd be lucky to tour never mind be captain.

So of the captains of the home nations sides that have just played in the AI's Gatland has very little to look at other than Heaslip, which again is interesting because he is probably 4th choice Irish captain behind O'Driscoll, O'Connell and Best. As pointed out above many Irish fans want him dropped for poor form. This says a lot about the standard of No.8s in the home nations at the minute as well - Heaslip is probably the best of them despite being out of form and is an international captain, for me that is why Gatland has stated that he is a potential captain.

Personally, I really hope O'Connell returns in great form over the next couple of months for Munster and in the 6N and gets the captaincy again. I tell you what though, I think the Lions captain will be Irish as looking at the other home nations there is very little captaining material there, especially given Robshaw's recent decision making as a captain.

Doesn't matter what Irish fans think of Heaslip - not one little bit.

It's how he's rated by his coaches - and by Gatland obviously in context of Lions tour.

I haven't seen him dropped from No 8. yet. And I suspect that he may continue the captaincy in the 6N - certainly the way Kidney was talking about the appointment when it was made.

O'Driscoll doesn't need to be captain of Ireland any more. He tired of it at Leinster.
All he wants/needs to concentrate on is having a very good 6N and getting on that place to Australia as his last hurrah. Whether he's captain of the Lions is all up in the air.

Gatland waxed lyrical about Warburton's performance against NZ/Richie McCaw and regards him as highly as ever - though he may have been blowing up somewhat in advance of the match against Oz.

He certainly seemed to be hinting that a Robshaw type player (6.5) is not what's needed in Australia. Gatland said that an out and out breakaway was needed. Which would seem to be more in Warburton's favour than anyone else, or possibly Tipuric.

Would Steffan Armitage have been in with a shout as an out and out 7 if the drugs thing wasn't hanging over him? Just thinking that Gatland says he wants an out and out 7 instead of a 6.5. Is Steffan even an out and out 7? Haven't seen too much of him lately, but know he's been getting rave reviews.

Griff wrote:Would Steffan Armitage have been in with a shout as an out and out 7 if the drugs thing wasn't hanging over him? Just thinking that Gatland says he wants an out and out 7 instead of a 6.5. Is Steffan even an out and out 7? Haven't seen too much of him lately, but know he's been getting rave reviews.

Armitage was cleared of all wrong doing a couple of weeks back , i think it depends on wether Toulon make the semis and the final.....
Which they probably will.

"We want to have the best squad and there is no pressure on me, but I would personally feel uncomfortable if we did not have players from all four nations."

Most sensible thing he's said in three seasons.

I wish he would stop taking press questions about players. Slating Robshow for not being a natural openside is not fair on a young player and a relatively inexperienced captain. Heaslip may well be a good captain but it's far from clear he'll be the incumbent in Ireland's 8 shirt for the 6N if Ferris is able to drag his battered carcass back into a national loose forward position.

Trying to think of other out and out 8's other than heaslip that would tour, possibly Ben Morgan?

I would take Faletau and Ryan Jones as they can cover 6 and 7 as well. If Tipuric continues his form shown for the Ospreys over the past 2 seasons he is definitely in with a shout.

Mike,

Whilst Faletau can cover I see him more of an 8 than anything else. Morgan could well tour if he has a good season with Glawster and England.

He is your old type typical No8 I guess.

I think this will be the most open Lions squad for a long time. Very few nailed on starters at the moment. Where I may have considered Adam Jones, Richie Grey, Paul O'Connell, Warburton, Heaslip, Roberts, North and Kearney were definite starters before the AI's, injury, lack of form and other players putting their hands up has changed my perception.
The only nailed on starters in my opinion are Healy who I think could be a good captain in future but not now, Tuilagi who doesn't seem like the captain type and Sexton who could do the job but I prefer the captain to be in the pack.
If Warburton, O'Connell, Robshaw (as a 6) and have outstanding 6 nations then I think the captain will come from these three.
Outside bet.... Jim Hamilton.

What about someone like Ritchie Gray if like the rest he is on form and fit etc.

Lets be honest Gatland say alot.

He will probably be quoted as saying WIlko, Warburton, Heaslip, Robshaw, Gray and Visser (ok maybe not) have a shout at being Lions captain. Because until the squad is named every pro rugby player who is eligable to play for the lions is in with a shout (however exceptionally small, almost a whisper) of being on the tour and being the test team captain. And Gats loves to talk and get his name in the press.

Heaslip will probably captain Ireland in the 6N. BOD and POC are falling to pieces and probably wont last a whole campaign anyway. Best might also be made captain though he might also be dropped for Strauss. I hope not because I think Best is class but we shall see.

In any case Heaslip will not be dropped because there isnt anyone really knocking at the door to take his place in the Irish team. POM isnt up to it, O'Brien possibly but he can stand in at 7 because we dont have any outstanding 7s in Ireland ATM.

Even if lots of people think Heaslip is off form he is still the best 8 in B&I and is proven as a captain having won all bar 1 match where he has captained Ireland or Leinster.

I didn't consider that Best might actually lose his place to O'Strauss.

This Lions team might be a frankenstein's monster in that case because Healy and Best were actually as close as I'll allow to being nailed on starters.

EngInAuck wrote:

Griff wrote:Would Steffan Armitage have been in with a shout as an out and out 7 if the drugs thing wasn't hanging over him? Just thinking that Gatland says he wants an out and out 7 instead of a 6.5. Is Steffan even an out and out 7? Haven't seen too much of him lately, but know he's been getting rave reviews.

Armitage was cleared of all wrong doing a couple of weeks back , i think it depends on wether Toulon make the semis and the final.....
Which they probably will.

Ah, OK. Hadn't read the latest news about him so wasn't aware. Cheers.

.

Think Best will manage to keep O'strauss out. I thinks he's just coming to his peak

George Carlin wrote:I didn't consider that Best might actually lose his place to O'Strauss.

This Lions team might be a frankenstein's monster in that case because Healy and Best were actually as close as I'll allow to being nailed on starters.

I really don't see this happening. Best is the superior player at both provincial and international level. he is probably the best hooker in the NH. he is currently sidelined with injury but is likely to make his comeback on sunday against the scarlets. His leadership qualities would be key for the lions, I don't think he would be captain but I think he would be a leader.

BelfastDickVet you are probably right.

I haven't seen many players better at winning a turnover by holding a player off the ground than Best, makes a big difference.

Yes Best is very good at it as is Ferris.

GunsGerms wrote:BelfastDickVet you are probably right.

I didn't mean that to sound as fastisous as it did. Strauss is a brilliant player and we were lucky to have him tied to Ireland and haveing two brilliant hookers will only spur both them on.

Lets hope so and anything can happen in rugby. Best was probably Ireland's best player last year. Hopefully he can push on and get even better.

I read about Gatland slating Robshaw about not being an out and out 7 but more rather him being a 6.5.

I also read that he told Sam Warburton how good he played in the second half against Richie Mcaw. Hmmmmm seems to me that Gatland is considering taking Sam Warburton along despite how bad he has played this season.

only taking players that are on form.

yeh right.

Maj as you said, he will select on recent form.

Can't get more recent than the second half of the last match you played can you. Likewise Robshaw gave away any chance England had of a win in the last thing he did.

You still seem to have masses of pent up vengeance against Warburton, what on earth has he done to upset you? You have created several threads portraying him in a negative frame, as well as slating him on any post his name can be raised.

I normally find Gatts' comments quite funny as they normally backfire on him.

However, when he's spouting off on behalf of a side I've got a vested interest in it soon loses its charm.

Now I know how the Welsh feel!

Gatland thinks Preistland is good.

Heaslip has been a good Ireland captain from what I've seen. Yes his form did suffer a dip, but weekly MOTM performance form is incredibly difficult to reciprocate. Gats is probably just throwing a name out there to keep media off the players backs, which I think is wise given the corresponding form dips in Warbs and Robshaw.

Who is the form fly-half then? Farrel or Sexytoes?

Maes, i do not have anything against Warburton at all.

I just do not want Gatland to pick a player from Wales. Just because he happen's to be the (head coach) of Wales.

If, If, Warburton is the "BEST" player in the 7 spot then i have no problem with him picked for the Lions.

But it just seems too me that Gatland is going to make sure that Warburton will be there. No matter how good/bad a season he
has.

maestegmafia wrote:Maj as you said, he will select on recent form.

Can't get more recent than the second half of the last match you played can you. Likewise Robshaw gave away any chance England had of a win in the last thing he did.

You still seem to have masses of pent up vengeance against Warburton, what on earth has he done to upset you? You have created several threads portraying him in a negative frame, as well as slating him on any post his name can be raised.

+ 1. Amazing how maj can forsee Warren Gatlands decisions before he can even make them.

majesticimperialman wrote:Maes, i do not have anything against Warburton at all.

I just do not want Gatland to pick a player from Wales. Just because he happen's to be the (head coach) of Wales.

If, If, Warburton is the "BEST" player in the 7 spot then i have no problem with him picked for the Lions.

But it just seems too me that Gatland is going to make sure that Warburton will be there. No matter how good/bad a season he
has.

Wasn't that what SCW done in 05 and look how that turned out.

bedfordwelsh wrote:What about someone like Ritchie Gray if like the rest he is on form and fit etc.

Good bet for a starting place - no way should he be captain. too young and inexperienced. Dunno if he wilol ever be captain material but he certainly is not now IMO

TJ wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:What about someone like Ritchie Gray if like the rest he is on form and fit etc.

Good bet for a starting place - no way should he be captain. too young and inexperienced. Dunno if he wilol ever be captain material but he certainly is not now IMO

+1

bedfordwelsh wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:Maes, i do not have anything against Warburton at all.

I just do not want Gatland to pick a player from Wales. Just because he happen's to be the (head coach) of Wales.

If, If, Warburton is the "BEST" player in the 7 spot then i have no problem with him picked for the Lions.

But it just seems too me that Gatland is going to make sure that Warburton will be there. No matter how good/bad a season he
has.

Wasn't that what SCW done in 05 and look how that turned out.

Exactly! Looks like you both agree then.....

majesticimperialman wrote:Maes, i do not have anything against Warburton at all.

I just do not want Gatland to pick a player from Wales. Just because he happen's to be the (head coach) of Wales.

If, If, Warburton is the "BEST" player in the 7 spot then i have no problem with him picked for the Lions.

But it just seems too me that Gatland is going to make sure that Warburton will be there. No matter how good/bad a season he
has.

Why dont you want Gatland to pick Welsh players?

We had a bad AIs, so far, admittedly but there are definitely going to be some on the tour. Hopefully they will start playing as well as they were last year tomorrow and beat the wallabies.

maestegmafia wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:Maes, i do not have anything against Warburton at all.

I just do not want Gatland to pick a player from Wales. Just because he happen's to be the (head coach) of Wales.

If, If, Warburton is the "BEST" player in the 7 spot then i have no problem with him picked for the Lions.

But it just seems too me that Gatland is going to make sure that Warburton will be there. No matter how good/bad a season he
has.

Why dont you want Gatland to pick Welsh players?

We had a bad AIs, so far, admittedly but there are definitely going to be some on the tour. Hopefully they will start playing as well as they were last year tomorrow and beat the wallabies.

Maes.
As ever you are twisting my words. I did not say that i dont want Gatland to pick any welsh players.

What i did say is that i dont Want Gatland to pick ( a player/s) for the Lions just because he is Welsh ( IF he is not the best player) in that position. If he is the best player in that position Then yes i agree he should go.

Nor do i want him ( Warren Gatland ) that is, to pick a man as (Captain of the Lions) just because he happens to play for the Country that Gatland is head coach of. ( if he is not the best man for the job) understand now?

majesticimperialman wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:I just do not want Gatland to pick a player from Wales. Just because he happen's to be the (head coach) of Wales.

Why dont you want Gatland to pick Welsh players?

Maes.
As ever you are twisting my words. I did not say that i dont want Gatland to pick any welsh players.

Maj,

I have never twist your words; it is your grammar letting you down again.

You wrote, "I just do not want Gatland to pick a player from Wales." Which looks like a statement because it is one sentence.

I take it that is not what you meant? So you should have extended that sentence to encompass your full point.

If you had written something like: -
"I do not want Warren Gatland to pick Welsh players ahead of better players just because he is more familiar with them, as he is the Welsh coach after all."

Then you would have conveyed your point.

I think it's a waste of time to be talking about who to pick for the lions now and apart from keeping rugby journalists employed I don't see the point of Gatland making statements like this. There's the 6 nations and the H cup to go yet and the leagues and the playoffs and then once we see who's left standing we can start talking about captains.

Is POC falling apart or will he come back and have the best year of his life? Will Heaslip's form improve or drop? Will Wales or England promote someone else to captain who will be perfect for the role? Who knows? It's far far far too early to consider this. It's like talking about what you want for dinner next June. Just wait a while everyone.