Ali Frazier 1 or 3 - Which is the "greater" fight!!

1. At that time the biggest fight in history...with two unbeaten fighters at or near the top of the game.....A top quality and historically important fight with overriding racial tones and the so-called Uncle Tom winning through....A fight which showed Boxing in all it's glory!!

3. The thriller in manila.......Probably otherwise known as the "pseudonym for courage"....Two fighters fighting to determine who's the greater one out of the trilogy although no longer at the top of their game......Thrilling ebb and flow fight one of the best in fighting history and both close to "death" I have no doubt that was true......

As before overriding racial tones and incredible hype!! But this time a more comprehensive result. A fight which showed Boxing in all it's savagery, glory and magnificence!!...Like the first fight it was pride, pride, pride!!

Which is greater????

Define 'Greater'

The first was when they were the closest to there primes, both undefeated etc, huge significance and was a brilliant fight and had the only legit knockdown of the trilogy

The 3rd is the better fight imo, Ali didn't dance as much at that point and meant he stood and traded with Frazier and it was a gruesome fight, both were running out of steam, both had absorbed so much punishment, neither would quit and the ending was dramatic as both were on the verge of collapsing from exhaustion

The first is probably the most significant but the 3rd shows the extent of their rivalry as both were at the end of the days but wanted nothing more than to knock the others head off to have bragging rights of the trilogy

3rd gets my vote

Always the third fight. The first fight was exceptional but the third was otherworldly. Either one of them could have collapsed and died that night. Ferocious, courageous and any other superlative you can think of in that fight. Joe took a beating that night and just kept on coming as he always did but to a much bigger degree, reached down into untapped reserves and kept going. Also showcases the iron will to win of Ali - lesser men fade down the stretch when they fight an implacable opponent - one who keeps coming and coming at you even though you've hit them with everything you got. Ali just kept on going. I suspect either of them would have continued round after round until the other dropped out of sheer exhaustion.

I agree the third fight was almost inhuman...

I prefer the first fight both men much nearer their peaks and able to fight flat out without having to deal with 110 degree heat. I honestly think Frazier would have outworked and beat Ali in the 3rd fight if it had been held in a US venue, but fighting in such stupid heat was almost impossible for such a high tempo buzzsaw like Smokin Joe.

Depends what you mean by "greater".

From a pure boxing/historical point of view I would say the first fight is the most meaningful since both figthers were closer to their peak, and both were undefeated with the world title on the line. From what I've seen and read, the build up to FOTC was like no other, every one was interested in it, with most people thinking it was a 50/50 who would in, whereas Manilla was not nearly as much buildinng up to it, most people thought it would be a cake walk for Ali and that Frazier was shot. It was basically billed as a publicity tour to build up popularity for Ali in the far East.

The third fight while more dramatic was less meaningful for me since it was basically fuelled by the dislike for one-another and not as significant in a pure boxing sense, (although it was a momentus fight). What is perhaps more important is that both fighters were past their prime, especially Frazier who with his style was always going to have a shorter peak/career than an out-fighter, and so while it was a massive event, from a purley boxing sense I would go for FOTC. It was more significant and therefore "greater".

Good one...

The one thing I'd disagree with that has been said is that they were both in their primes for the first fight. Ali certainly had plenty left, but he was on slow mo compared to the Ali of 66/67. Frazier's performance that night must go down in history as among the greatest single performances of any fighter ever.

I'd say in terms of the action, the fighters providing it, and overall significance fight 1 was greater in none passionate sense. However we're human beings, we have passion and instincts and pleasures we can't really explain. As you say the third fight was almost inhuman, and that's what makes it my pick for the greater fight. It had a unique intensity, it descended into a very dramatic kind of violence.

I disagree with hogey on citing the heat as being at fault for Frazier losing. Partly because I think Frazier had more left in the tank after the 14th round. He was barely moving as Ali unloaded everything on him at the end, but that was more due to partial blindness. Ali was knackered. Also, why is a climate that supposedly suits Ali unfair, and a climate that supposedly favours Frazier fair?

The third fight is one that has lived in my memory since I saw it. I don't think I've ever seen a fight like it since.

Fight 1

Ali back at the top

Frazier out to prove himself

Frank Sinatra taking ringside photos

Burt Lancaster presenting and conducting dressing room interviews.

Fight 1 was more then a fight it was an event.

Glitz, glamour, fur coats, hollywood etc.

First fight was the most significant fight, bar none, that boxing has ever witnessed, in my opinion. I'm slightly partial here, because it's the first fight I ever saw and was responsible for giving me the boxing bug, but I also think that "The Fight" was also a better all-round fight, at least from the technical viewpoint. A proper clash of styles, which Ali's reduced mobility meant that the third fight couldn't be to the same extent.

Manila was a brutal war of attrition and a hugely significant "requiem" for the greatest of all heavyweight eras, but for me, it lacks the true "event" status of the first contest. What other fight has seen someone like Sinatra having to blag a job as a sports photographer in order to gain admittance, or Burt Lancaster doing the inter-round summaries? It was front page stuff in every respect, while we have to remember that Manila was supposed to be a case of Ali battering a past it Frazier. Didn't happen that way, of course, but I still look back at the first fight as boxing's all-time high point.

Ali was just past his peak in 71, but he would still have beaten just about any heavy who ever breathed in New York that night. As has been said already, Frazier's performance might have been the single greatest in heavyweight history.

Ali Frazier 1 was the greater for me,maybe because I picked Smokin Joe to win and won a few bob off my workmates.Even though Ali's dancing days were over it still took a great show of character to get off the canvas in the dying stages of the bout, he must have known that he was losing but he pulled himself up, determined not to lose by knockout. the Thriller in Manila was also a classic and neither man was the same after that fight,Ali said he couldn't have come out for that last round but I 'm sure he would have and he was in front at that stage so the result would have been the same. Joe Frazier was always one of my favourites,both as a fighter and as a man.

First for me as by the third most of the ability to avoid a punch was gone and it had turned into two sluggers.

I actually get sad watching the third seeing two fighters that wouldn't have taken so many punches taking so many punches.

I think the 2nd fight was the best of the trilogy. Ali won comfortably, which was good as I prefered Ali to Frazier and it was a lot safer too. Undoubtedly the third fight contributed a great deal to Ali's current state as well.

Undoubtedly it did super.......

However Ali's rope a doping.........contributed more..

His legs went in the seventies and unfortunately he discovered he had a great chin and great endurance level....

Super D Boon wrote:Undoubtedly the third fight contributed a great deal to Ali's current state as well.

A genetic pre-disposition to reduced dopamine production in the brain is a more likely factor.

There are a few environmental triggers which can result in getting Parkinson's disease...

Severe head trauma being one..

You can't rule out Ali's boxing career..

Or you can If you're an idiot..not that I'm suggesting you're one of those...

I agree, the exact cause of Parkinson's is unknown, so it would be foolish for anyone to claim otherwise...

As you say you can't rule it out, but equally you can't rule it in...

There are thousands of ex-boxers without the disease...

If it were undoubtedly a factor there would surely be many more with it...

No need for insults...

There are thousands of smokers that don't get lung cancer!!!!

Haven't insulted you..

Didn't say you had....

Freddie Roach has Parkinson's as well and some have loosely blamed boxing for that. Being that Parkinson's affects the brain although not specifically a neurologial disorder it cannot be ruled out

You have to be a beefster to use this icon..

Leave it out..

Had an S&D bug over the weekend....

Probably down to cruiser now....

So you were full of.........

Something's never change!!

Jar Jar Binks is the cause of all known illnesses.

I'm right, you're wrong.

First fight for me,but I wish we could have seen the Ali of '67 against the Frazier of '70. I can't think of a fanatasy fight that I would rather have seen. the one thing that Ali's first reign lacked for me is a win over a top class pressure fighter in the mould of a Frazier or a Marciano, the sort of fighter that could have forced him into fighting for every second of every round.

Id say the first fight. Agree with what a member said about the event and the build up. For me though its the close up camera shots and the way you can hear the punches connecting. Ali going down in the 15th but getting straight up from that left hook makes the fight. Even when you watch it now 40 years on and via the TV you just almost feel like your there. Magic