Time for Welsh management to pick FORM players!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Going from Grandslam champions to Autumn chumps is the quickest fall from grace I've ever seen in Welsh rugby. At least we got progressively rubbish during the 80's and 90's.

Wales really really must stop this bias to specific players and start picking players who consistently play well and play for the only region that actually plays competitive rugby with heart (the Ospreys).

I don't want to see Priestland near the squad again until he plays some MOTM games for the Scarlets. Nobody wishes injury on a player, but it must be a blessing from the heavens for him to be injured. It was not HIS fault he kept getting selected. He played very well in patches in certain games in the autumn, he wasn't as bad as some have made out BUT the mistakes he DID make were criminal. James Hook is our most naturally gifted 10, but Dan Biggar is the form 10 in Wales by a mile.

I also don't want to see George North or Cuthbert become "undroppable". None of them are Shane Williams. Shane was a game changer and would turn up in any position and he truly earned his undroppable status. I also want to see more intelligent players being selected and players being selected in the RIGHT positions i.e. Halfpenny. Liam Williams did well, Halfpenny was fantastic but they need to be swapped around.

Wales can bounce back at home against Ireland. They've won 3 in a row vs the men in green and they need to pick their most form team possible. The Scarlets and the Blues have been abysmal and we must only pick the very best, a select few that consistently play well (Halfpenny & Jon Davies). The lineout v Australia was the worst it's ever been. I don't want to see Matthew Rees near the starting lineup ever again.

Eli Walker has been fantastic. He won't get a Wales start due to lack of experience, but he deserves a place in the squad and possibly bench. If Wales want to beat Ireland they need to start picking creative players who want it badly, no matter which country they play their club rugby.

15. Lee Byrne (PLEASE!!!)
14. Leigh Halfpenny
13. Jon Davies
12. Ashley Beck
11. George North
10. Dan Biggar (by a mile)
9. Mike Phillips (no other choice, plus he's always great vs Ireland)

8. Ryan Jones
7. Justin Tipuric
6. Dan Lydiate
5. Ian Evans
4. Alun-wyn Jones
3. Adam Jones
2. Richard Hibbard
1. Paul James

16. Gethin Jenkins
17. Ken Owens
18. Sam Warburton
19. Toby Faletau
20. Rhys Webb
21. James Hook
22. Jamie Roberts

Great team and quality bench.

Pro,

I wouldn't argue with that side though out of personal preference I would make a few changes.

Li Williams for Byrne
Sc Williams in for Beck
Charteris in for AWJ

I agree Biggar now has to be given his shot, James has been our best scrummaging prop for sometime and with Jenkins not getting the gametime its no contest.

I wouldn't be bothered who played out of Owens and Hibbard

bedfordwelsh wrote:Pro,

I wouldn't argue with that side though out of personal preference I would make a few changes.

Li Williams for Byrne
Sc Williams in for Beck
Charteris in for AWJ

I agree Biggar now has to be given his shot, James has been our best scrummaging prop for sometime and with Jenkins not getting the gametime its no contest.

I wouldn't be bothered who played out of Owens and Hibbard

I also think that the regional coaches who ARE doing a good job need to work with the WRU. I don't see the point in an alien coaching style if there is one that is working domestically. The "welsh" way at the moment isn't working.

That will be one benefit of central contracting. I would love to see the WRU headhunt 4 of the best coaches in the world to run the regions.

regional coaches who ARE doing a good job need to work with the WRU

Who are you really pro? Your clearly not welsh with dull comments like this one!!

What is working domestically? except for the tea makers!!!

And what 'welsh way' are you talking about?!

I would be very surprised to see Lee Byrne back in the Welsh team to be honest.

Eli Walker. Seen him play for the first time today and looks dangerous with ball in hand. However i dont think he will get selected for Wales because he is not an house hold name.

majesticimperialman wrote:I would be very surprised to see Lee Byrne back in the Welsh team to be honest.

Eli Walker. Seen him play for the first time today and looks dangerous with ball in hand. However i dont think he will get selected for Wales because he is not an house hold name.

You mean like Tom Prydie, Rhys Gill, Jamie Roberts, Aaron Shingler, Harry Robinson all were when they got picked?

Yeah I can't understand that comment maj, though I do agree about Byrne which seems a shame as he's on very good form.

Come the summer tour I would hope to see Walker and Prydie selected ahead of Robinson who doesn't seem to be getting anywhere near as much game time as these two.

biggar superb today , nothing flash ( which doesnt sit well with the number 10 'romantics') just did a great job at 10. we are getting the anti biggar set saying the 10 shirt is not that important anymore, laughable really, the guy ran the game!! it's only important if their man has the shirt on his back, pathetic!!!

hibbard put in a shift, hasnt played for a month, he's got to be in the squad, his commitment is unquestionable.

I reckon Hotpoint,Hoover and Russell Hobbs will get selected for Wales six nations squad because they are household names.

Yeah, sorry Maj but Wales have got a good record of blooding young players yet to be household names. So, no basis for your comment really. Sorry.

Fingers typing before brain engagement???

viewtothegym wrote:I reckon Hotpoint,Hoover and Russell Hobbs will get selected for Wales six nations squad because they are household names.

Very well said there viewtothegym.

Looseheaded wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:I would be very surprised to see Lee Byrne back in the Welsh team to be honest.

Eli Walker. Seen him play for the first time today and looks dangerous with ball in hand. However i dont think he will get selected for Wales because he is not an house hold name.

You mean like Tom Prydie, Rhys Gill, Jamie Roberts, Aaron Shingler, Harry Robinson all were when they got picked?

Plus Liam Williams, George North, Leigh Halfpenny, Alex Cuthbert. All thrown in before they were that well known at regional level.

North got more International caps than regional games under is belt at one point.

viewtothegym wrote:North got more International caps than regional games under is belt at one point.

He had also played International rugby before HC rugby.

Just been on the Guardian website not a peep about the Ospreys win over Toulouse just talking about how Northampton got over the "blip" that happened last week.

[quote="gavstar"]biggar superb today , nothing flash ( which doesnt sit well with the number 10 'romantics') just did a great job at 10.

Gav,

Sod the romantics who needs flash, our best two No10's for the past donkey years have been Jinks and Wellies. Neither were renowned as flash players but give me them anyday.

Well Biggar may not have been flash but he beat more defenders and ran more meters with ball in hand than Priestland did all autumn

viewtothegym wrote:Well Biggar may not have been flash but he beat more defenders and ran more meters with ball in hand than Priestland did all autumn

Well thats hardly a glowing endorsement, Scott Andrews most probably ran more meters than Priestland with ball in hand during the AIs

majesticimperialman wrote:I would be very surprised to see Lee Byrne back in the Welsh team to be honest.

Eli Walker. Seen him play for the first time today and looks dangerous with ball in hand. However i dont think he will get selected for Wales because he is not an house hold name.

And his defence is dire.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

viewtothegym wrote:Well Biggar may not have been flash but he beat more defenders and ran more meters with ball in hand than Priestland did all autumn

Well thats hardly a glowing endorsement, Scott Andrews most probably ran more meters than Priestland with ball in hand during the AIs

Biggar's running game has improved a LOT, he showed it a fair amount vs Samoa in the first half while he was trying to make a point to the selectors. He is also the most accurate and consistent kicker (both out of hand and at goal) in Europe for about 2 seasons now.

I didn't like Biggar much a couple of seasons ago, but he has improved vastly and deserves the welsh 10 shirt for whole the 6Ns (actually getting 2 games in a row) to prove himself.

proeggchaser.

If you look at Wales over the last 2/3 years they seem to be going down same path that England used to go down. They ( ENGLAND) Used to pick the same players week in, week out.

And it did not matter if their was any body better playing for a particualar team they simply would not get into the team/squad.

Wales seem to have been doing the same, every time it is announced that Wales are playing so and so. Every body could name the team even before it is announced to the public.

But now Stewart Lancaster is in charge of England no body knows who will be in the team. And who wont.

There is nobody Garunteed a place in the squad. And that is how it should be.

maj,

Prior to this season that was because they were the best and on form around and in general served us well.

Its only really been this season that the wrong selections have been made by picking players so badly out of form.

[quote="bedfordwelsh"]

gavstar wrote:biggar superb today , nothing flash ( which doesnt sit well with the number 10 'romantics') just did a great job at 10.

Gav,

Sod the romantics who needs flash, our best two No10's for the past donkey years have been Jinks and Wellies. Neither were renowned as flash players but give me them anyday.

Very good point Bedford, something I've said before too. We love to think that the ultimate thing is to have a flashy running 10 like Barry John or Phil Bennett, but in reality our most consistent 10s over the last 20 years have been 'steady eddy' types in Neil Jenkins and Stephen Jones. I'd love to see Stephen Jones in his prime supplying ball to the likes of JD2, Jamie Robets, North and Cuthbert. It's that stability and guarantee of distribution that we actually miss. Biggar could be the one to step in as a sort of semi 'steady eddy', semi running 10. Best of both worlds, and best we've got currently.

If he stays injury free and keeps his form as it is now then he simply has to start the 6 Nations.

If he doesn't then despite nothing being done about it questions seriously need to be asked over Howleys ability to be in charge.

bedfordwelsh wrote:If he stays injury free and keeps his form as it is now then he simply has to start the 6 Nations.

If he doesn't then despite nothing being done about it questions seriously need to be asked over Howleys ability to be in charge.

Completely agree, Biggar needs to start against Ireland - and I would say the same if Preistland was fit.

There is a problem with this to my mind Form can be a transitory thing,effected by many things.Including recovering from injuries form at a lesser level say Heineken,top14,Super or club than Test level.
A player of known quality may be off form and when he underperforms at Test
level the cry is DROP HIM.When he is replaced by the flavour of the month and he fails you get WHY PICK HIM?
Selectors can only pick a team the players have to make it work,Class is permanent form transitory.
I will give you an example the Hurricanes have for seasons until recently been the Second NZ Super Franchise after the Crusaders.
THEN a new Coach came in Cruden,Weepu,Nonu,Conrad Smith,Cory Jane had a terrible season and were out of form.
HAD the 3 wise men picked on form they would have been nowhere near the All Blacks on form.
People remarked how Crudon fitted in so well in the RWC when Carter,then Slade were injured.
OF COURSE because he was playing with the Hurricanes 9,12,13,and 14 and new there game backwards.
It is not to much of an exageration to say Nz`s RWC was mainly down to out of form players.
Many players due to workload cruise in club matches then switch on in Test Colours it is a VERY fine line.
More to the point you have a Coach spending more time on Lions Duty than WalesCan a man serve two masters?.
More to the point elementary things like not having a specialist Lock on the Bench.Or practising things like Lineouts that are just a matter of practice well?

wales606 wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:If he stays injury free and keeps his form as it is now then he simply has to start the 6 Nations.

If he doesn't then despite nothing being done about it questions seriously need to be asked over Howleys ability to be in charge.

Completely agree, Biggar needs to start against Ireland - and I would say the same if Preistland was fit.

All above comments are totally logical, total sense.

Add in the comments of the last poster about 'no lock on the bench' etc. and the answer to the question about howleys fitness to be in charge is there.

Favourite for me has to be from beds... 'sod the romantics,' love it!!!!!!!! lets win some sodding games!!!!!!!

No lock on the bench because Ryan Jones can move to lock.

proeggchaser wrote:No lock on the bench because Ryan Jones can move to lock.

Could Wales be relying to much on Ryan Jones? Will he be around for the 2015 rugby world cup?

And if not who will take his place?

[quote="gavstar"][quote="wales606"]

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Favourite for me has to be from beds... 'sod the romantics,' love it!!!!!!!! lets win some sodding games!!!!!!!

Cheers Gav but its oh so true at the moment I would be happy to win a 3-0 nil game with lets say an non-fancy 10 dropping goal than lose a high scoring game with a 'flashy/flair' No10 and be classed as plucky losers AGAIN.

viewtothegym wrote:Just been on the Guardian website not a peep about the Ospreys win over Toulouse just talking about how Northampton got over the "blip" that happened last week.

you really should learn to search a little better before mouthing off. http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/dec/15/ospreys-toulouse-heineken-cup

No need for a specialist lock on the bench,because Ryan jones can go there?
I question that because a player can cover lock is no reason for not picking a specialist.
IF the gentlemen concerned had done the basic Lock work versus Australia would the line out been such pants?
I could name you at least 4 very famous All Blacks. All among the best ever to
pull on a Black shirt who played there .
BUT they were`nt Locks,Kevin Skinner,Ken Gray,[Props] Brian Lochore 8.Kel Tremain [flanker/8] all were good at Lineouts.Tremain not so much in latter years but when he started with Southland?
These were in betweeners did1nt have the build for the teams of the time at Lock.
Croft for England is a player who does`nt know if he`s a Lock or a 6 as to form.
Owen Farrell not a starting 10 was immense with his Goal kicking versus the All Blacks.In his next club game he could`nt kick a thing 1 from 5 these things happen.

emack2 wrote:No need for a specialist lock on the bench,because Ryan jones can go there?
I question that because a player can cover lock is no reason for not picking a specialist.
IF the gentlemen concerned had done the basic Lock work versus Australia would the line out been such pants?
I could name you at least 4 very famous All Blacks. All among the best ever to
pull on a Black shirt who played there .
BUT they were`nt Locks,Kevin Skinner,Ken Gray,[Props] Brian Lochore 8.Kel Tremain [flanker/8] all were good at Lineouts.Tremain not so much in latter years but when he started with Southland?
These were in betweeners did1nt have the build for the teams of the time at Lock.
Croft for England is a player who does`nt know if he`s a Lock or a 6 as to form.
Owen Farrell not a starting 10 was immense with his Goal kicking versus the All Blacks.In his next club game he could`nt kick a thing 1 from 5 these things happen.

Wales were missing their first four choice second rows, take that many players in order out of any international team and their line out will be rubbish.

Maesteg point taken,I don`t pretend to know Wales best side just going by what
i`ve seen.THIS year they have been nowhere near the Grand Slam side I accept you have many players missing for various reasons.
Australia but for a lack of concentration was a won match,expect much more from you come 6Ns GOODLUCK

[quote="bedfordwelsh"][quote="gavstar"]

wales606 wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Favourite for me has to be from beds... 'sod the romantics,' love it!!!!!!!! lets win some sodding games!!!!!!!

Cheers Gav but its oh so true at the moment I would be happy to win a 3-0 nil game with lets say an non-fancy 10 dropping goal than lose a high scoring game with a 'flashy/flair' No10 and be classed as plucky losers AGAIN.

Not quite sure what this means. Are you suggesting Rhys Priestland is a flair player and that is the reason for our current losing streak?

In reality, Wales have consistently favoured functional "non-fancy" 10s for over 20 yrs. We were plucky losers with Steven "steady-eddy-with-the-odd-intercept-and-game-losing-missed-touch" Jones. Before that we were just plain losers with the average Neil Jenkins. A player like Michalak would never get a game with Gatland's Wales.

proeggchaser wrote:Wales really really must stop this bias to specific players and start picking players who consistently play well and play for the only region that actually plays competitive rugby with heart (the Ospreys).

So you want us to start selecting players based on which region they represent, rather than on individual merit?

Where have you been the last 60 years,test Teams are built on THE most successful Club/Province/Franchise.THE odd individual will get thru the system BUT it is a case of who you play for not who you are,you have more chance playing for England at Leicester than say Exeter .
In Nz not so much now lost copunt of great players who played forminor provinces.That were seldom or never capped for the ABs,as an example guy Bowers as a young exciting 5/8 .On the 1953-4 touring team a couple of tests then that was it,had he been playing for a MAJOR Province.He would have had far more caps he was playing into the 1963 era well enough to deserve a chance for that tour too.

I've only been alive for the last 34, Emack.

We seen time and time again players step up when in the National set up despite playing for poor performing teams.

Last season none of our stand out players came from the Ospreys but as a TEAM we won the Slam.

There are exceptions to every rule,example 2008 the AllBlacks lost a whole RWC Squad.Many in key areas the Crusaders/Hurricanes super final was used as a test trial.The ABs went on to win the 3Ns and toured Europe unbeaten. Without conceding a try or even a Second half score with the exception of the
Munster Match.That Team played under 3 different sets of laws but still won most games.
At Dunedin in the last test played there they lost by the best solo try i`ve ever seen.BUT two Rookie Locks Boric and Thrush with 2 caps and 1 respectively outplayed Matfield and Botha a rare event.[Ali Williams injured after 20 minutes .Thorn suspended]

emack2 wrote:Maesteg point taken,I don`t pretend to know Wales best side just going by what
i`ve seen.THIS year they have been nowhere near the Grand Slam side I accept you have many players missing for various reasons.
Australia but for a lack of concentration was a won match,expect much more from you come 6Ns GOODLUCK

Cheers emack...!

Think we will need all the luck we can get mate...

We were also using our fourth choice Tighthead with a lad who turned 19 the day before on the bench vs the Aussies. We were missing first and secon choice blindsides either out or injured and on the bench (Ryan Jones was injured vs ABs as I am sure you remember). On top of that a number of lads in other positions either injured or unavailable due to the game being outside the IRB window.

It is encouraging to hear from many kiwi friends suggesting that the odds on Wales to claim a back to back GS in
March is worth a punt at the bookies.

Lee Byrne suffered a fractured vertebrae against Leinster, so any hope of a return to the welsh squad is unlikely.

viewtothegym wrote:I reckon Hotpoint,Hoover and Russell Hobbs will get selected for Wales six nations squad because they are household names.

wales606 wrote:Lee Byrne suffered a fractured vertebrae against Leinster, so any hope of a return to the welsh squad is unlikely.

Thats not good news for Byrne.

Got any links?

majesticimperialman wrote:proeggchaser.

If you look at Wales over the last 2/3 years they seem to be going down same path that England used to go down. They ( ENGLAND) Used to pick the same players week in, week out.

And it did not matter if their was any body better playing for a particualar team they simply would not get into the team/squad.

Wales seem to have been doing the same, every time it is announced that Wales are playing so and so. Every body could name the team even before it is announced to the public.

But now Stewart Lancaster is in charge of England no body knows who will be in the team. And who wont.

There is nobody Garunteed a place in the squad. And that is how it should be.

MADGE what you on about? im not an England fan and i could name the team Lancaster will put out in Englands first 2013 six nation game, he only ever selects someone different if injury happens.
Then we look at the restrictive aspect of the EPS limiting any broad scope of choice.

Wales are nothing like England used to be, England picked players close to pension age and won nothing, Wales has a youthful squad infact the youngest team to ever win a six nations, also lets not forget England won nothing after 2003 Wales are winning Grand Slams at will.

Madge beyond comedy i do wonder what you add to this forum.

maestegmafia wrote:

wales606 wrote:Lee Byrne suffered a fractured vertebrae against Leinster, so any hope of a return to the welsh squad is unlikely.

Thats not good news for Byrne.

Got any links?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/20763226

Cheers