Donaire - Arce and Khan vs Molina **Spoilers**

What can you say about the little filipino that already hasnt been said? Awesome, frightening and unstoppable. Captain said that Donaire would be the fighter of the year if he got through Arce and as if rising to the challenge he put a big full stop at the end and quite frankly bludgeoned his opponent into unconciousness. He said after the fight that he respected Arce because he'd come to fight and not just survive as most of his opponents did - also citing it as the reason why he didnt get the early knockouts as often because the opponents refused to open up. Donaire seems to be going from strength to strength and if this last fight is to go by then 2013 might be the year he emphasizes his dominance and takes his place amongst the very top of the lower divisions. Rigondeaux next? 10/10

Khan - not much to say, Overmatched opponent. There is a slight improvement but it only showed later on in the fight. He appeared to be quite anxious and made his usual mistakes - Threw 1 punch to many, staying in range too long and backing off in straight lines with the right hand a little low. He did however, as the fight progressed start to settle and quite frankly stopped getting hit as often.

Good signs are that his jab is back and he was moving, blocking and working well, also he seemed to settle of his own accord and get some practice in. Bad signs are that he's still open for the left a little and occasional lingers inside. Still, despite the opponent - a little more measured though wasn't expect wholesale changes overnight and I was rather concerned he didnt attack that cut as often as he should have. Not quite sure what to make of it - he says he wants Garcia next - so theres a fight to look forward next year (fingers crossed) so maybe we'll see if he's learned something against a better opponent. 7/10

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvz0ln_20121216box_latino#from=embediframe

Donaire - Arce for those who missed it and can put up with the bloody ads and the irritating Bar Steward commentator

Read this somewhere and i agree.....

"As expected, WBO super bantamweight champion Nonito Donaire (31-1, 20
KO’s) destroyed an undersized past his best 5’4″ Jorge Arce (61-7-2, 46
KO’s) in a 3rd round knockout on Saturday night at the Toyota Center in
Houston, Texas".

Don't worry mate - He'll knock over Rigondeaux in 2013. Patience!

Predictable night really Khan has easy win against totally out of his depth opponent who was clearly too small and not experienced enough to be fighting anyone in Khan's league, especially with no power. In all honesty i think Khan should have destroyed the lad in half the time so was not over impressed though some will now say he is back in the bigtime and ready for Floyd again.
Donaire was as impressive as ever and as expected destroyed Arce while handing his mate a nice retirement cheque.
Groves looked good but then again Johnson is a shell of himself and needs to retire before his health suffers, just because his chin can take the shots doesnt mean his brain can.
Oh and well done Michael Sprott the bloke never knows when he is there to lose and every so often does something to surprise you.

ShahenshahG wrote: Don't worry mate - He'll knock over Rigondeaux in 2013. Patience!

Forget about Rigondeaux, the best fight out there is Nonito vs Mares. That's the one I want to see!

Khan, even though fighting a light puncher, still got tagged and shook.

Khan will get KOd any of Bam Bam Rios, Matthysse or Garcia again.

Beating a lightweight then bigging yourself up doesn't really show anything important.

Maybe - Its just Mackem loves Rigo and I was poking a little fun at him. Donaire has said somewhere that he wants Mares and Rigondeaux. Whichever order it is they are mouthwatering prospective fights.

ShahenshahG wrote:Maybe - Its just Mackem loves Rigo and I was poking a little fun at him. Donaire has said somewhere that he wants Mares and Rigondeaux. Whichever order it is they are mouthwatering prospective fights.

I personally don't think Rigondeaux is as good as he's made out to be.

Plus Rigondeaux can barely sell out a pub to watch his fights.

Mares vs Nonito makes sense in financial and viewing terms.

The p for p number 1 in waiting, as far as I'm concerned. Tremendous fighter on many levels, possessing what so many great technicians don't, KO power in either hand. What's more, Donaire's apparently a thoroughly decent bloke with a feeling both for boxing's history and his own responsibilities to the modern game.

To my eye, Mares will need quite some improvement to compete effectively with this future all-time great at the peak of his powers. Greater variety, more snap in his punches (it's been almost three years since he stopped anyone) - more of everything, in fact. Can't see him getting anywhere near Donaire, in truth. Rigondeaux may be a different kettle of fish, but I wouldn't want to bet on it. In any event, if he can secure and win those two fights in 2013, Donaire will have effectively cleaned out one of the deepest divisions in boxing in less than two years. An extraordinary feat by modern standards.

Same here although I do rate him pretty highly - Its just a fight I want to see. Donaire wants to fight both and establish himself as the undisputed king. Admirable that and hopefully we'll get to see him fulfil his dreams.

Watched the HBO coverage of the fight and Donaire made it very clear he wants Mares next, went as far as to say he's been badgering Arum for nigh on two years to make the fight happen. For what it's worth he beats Mares and Rigondeaux with a fair bit left in the tank, he's the sort of talent who doesn't come around all that often, there's only Jofre who can make a solid argument to be rated higher than him below Featherweight.

I find some of the anti-Khan sentiment on here (and other boxing forums, to be fair) a bit embarrassing, to be honest. I'm hardly a big fan of the guy, but anyone who knows boxing will tell you that was a very good performance against a very credible, tough, unbeaten opponent.

The attacks were more measured, and timed better - in and outs, shorter flurries. There were some great examples of boxing off the ropes, and he seemed to be thinking about what he was doing a lot more rather than fighting on instinct.

He did get tagged a bit, but he seemed well in control. A leopard won't change its spots, but his defence is already showing *some* signs of improving, though it will take four or five fights for Hunter's tactics to come to full fruition.

Don't get me wrong, a bigger man/harder puncher may well have caused Khan real problems, but let's not forget that most of those now dismissing Molina's credibility were those predicting he'd win. Just seems like Khan can't win in most peoples eyes, despite (overly arrogant, or even technically overrated or not) guaranteeing exciting fights, via one means or another, as regularly as pretty much any fighter in world boxing.

Why hate the lad? Just enjoy an exciting fighter. You don't have to read him giving it the biggun in the press, just watch the fights, they're always going to be interesting, for better or worse.

Not sure what more we could have expected from Khan in his comeback fight from a devastating knockout loss, jumping straight back in with the big boys would have been suicide, would like to see him fight two or three more times against credible but slightly overmatched opponents if i'm honest.

I was hoping Arce would win. Donaire is a pain in the Arce!

2 fighters against 2 overmatched opponents

I haven't seen te Donaire fight but it sounds like what I expected. Arce is a decent fighter but to me he is a blown up superflyweight and is very easy to hit. Donaire is simply sublime and is (should) in most people's top 5 punchers p4p and may even top that list. Arce has been in alot of wars and I knew he wouldn't be able to take donaire's power. I thought that he may last a little longer but I'm not surprised that he didn't. I remember Darchiniyan hitting him so easy ad hurting him and he wasn't nearly as quick as Donaire. Vasquez also had him down and was drawing on the cards befor she got stopped whereas Donaire battered Vasquez untill he hurt his hand the coasted his way to a decision

Its hard to fault khan as it was one-sided but he still got caught when he opened up and was shock a couple times. He also prove dto me that he isn't a hard puncher. Whence the talked about his power i always ignore dit as he isn't a big puncher at all. He was hitting Molina a lot of times and despite being a lightweight he never really had him hurt. Molina backed up alot but that was due to volume instead of power

Donaire is fighter of the year imo and will be in direct competition with Ward for fighter of the year come the end of 2013

Khan can get back in the gym and continue to build up a partnership with Hunter and continue to correct his flaws as a trainer can't change a fighter in a couple months

ShahenshahG wrote: Don't worry mate - He'll knock over Rigondeaux in 2013. Patience!

I hate to admit it, but you could be right. I hope not, because Nonito is a genital wart and Rigo is a legend. But, his inactivity has hindered his progress. At his age, with his amateur background, he should be fighting every 4 months for the experience.

Gutted.

whats has he done to make you so angry? By all accounts hes a nice guy and he's the only pro boxer who gets randomly tested all year round, exciting skilled fighter who fights regularly

Sot get the hype about Rigondeux, has fought nobodies, got shock up bad a couple times agaisnt Marroquin and got put down and almost beaten by Cordoba

Put him against a puncher like Donaire and give him the opportunities he gave to cordoba and Marroquin then he will be stopped

Mares is the big fight atm, big fanbase, aggressive style and is on a good run of form but Nonito is a different class and will be able to get him when he comes forward aggressively like he did agaisnt Moreno

Hard to fault Khan. Boxed well behind the jab, something which he neglected in previous fights, covered up well and didn't fight fire with fire when tagged. Don't think he was ever really shaken to be honest, took a few clean shots and seemed to stop for a second and go back to the game plan. Can't expect instant change but is a promising start.

Khan fractured both hands in last nights fight apparently so not sure when he'll be able to get back in the gym.

Gerry SA wrote:Khan, even though fighting a light puncher, still got tagged and shook.

Khan will get KOd any of Bam Bam Rios, Matthysse or Garcia again.

Beating a lightweight then bigging yourself up doesn't really show anything important.

he wasn't KO'd or dropped by Maidana was he, so it's no guarantee he'll be stopped at all. on his day i'd have khan to pick apart garcia quite handily, rios too.

ShahenshahG wrote: whats has he done to make you so angry? By all accounts hes a nice guy and he's the only pro boxer who gets randomly tested all year round, exciting skilled fighter who fights regularly

I fear he's going to beat a hero of my youth!

Great KO from Donaire. Poonsawat has failed a drugs test so his scrap with Rigo has been cancelled. I'm a massive Rigo fan, the greatest amateur I've seen in my lifetime, but I fancy Donaire heavily in that one. I wouldn't hold the Cordoba fight against him, it was only his seventh fight after all. But he's too reliant on his left hand. It's a great weapon, one of the best in the business, but i doubt he would blow Donaire away like he did Ramos or Kennedy with it.

Donaire outboxes anyone who comes to survive and KO's anyone who comes to fight. He has dispatched quality fighters with ease - think back to his savage KO of Darchinyan, then look at the left hook he ko'd Montiel with last year - absolutely devastating. Always been a fan of his but my gripe used to be that he didn't seem to love the sport enough or fight often enough. Six straight wins in the last 20 months has put paid to that. He is an ATG in the making and will almost certainly KTFO Rigo & Mares.

Donaire has been on an unbelievable tear, He seems destined for pound-for-pound stardom. I thought Khan looked good last night and seemed much more considered in his boxing. Obviously the level of opposition allowed for this somewhat, but i was expecting some nerves given the must-win nature of the fight, thought Molina seemed like a very tough if slightly offensively limited fighter. Reasonably impressed with Khan getting the stoppage in the end, further evidence that his punches, whilst not devastating, are hurtful shots.

captain carrantuohil wrote:The p for p number 1 in waiting, as far as I'm concerned. Tremendous fighter on many levels, possessing what so many great technicians don't, KO power in either hand. What's more, Donaire's apparently a thoroughly decent bloke with a feeling both for boxing's history and his own responsibilities to the modern game.

To my eye, Mares will need quite some improvement to compete effectively with this future all-time great at the peak of his powers. Greater variety, more snap in his punches (it's been almost three years since he stopped anyone) - more of everything, in fact. Can't see him getting anywhere near Donaire, in truth. Rigondeaux may be a different kettle of fish, but I wouldn't want to bet on it. In any event, if he can secure and win those two fights in 2013, Donaire will have effectively cleaned out one of the deepest divisions in boxing in less than two years. An extraordinary feat by modern standards.

I am increasingly finding my own thoughts mirroring yours. Not so much considering this fight but he struggled a little when he moved up initially and some scepticism remained. He appears to have settled into the division well and I've gone from mild scepticism to wondering who can beat him. Do you think he can step up to feather? I get the feeling that truly might be a step to far.

TheMackemMawler wrote:

ShahenshahG wrote: whats has he done to make you so angry? By all accounts hes a nice guy and he's the only pro boxer who gets randomly tested all year round, exciting skilled fighter who fights regularly

I fear he's going to beat a hero of my youth!

You've followed Rigondeaux from the beginning?

I don't see Donaire struggling too much when he does eventually move up to featherweight, the top men at the weight whilst good aren't anything special, can't really see the likes of Salido or Garcia beating him.

He'll find salido a really tough opponent and won't be able to hurt him. Salido is a big featherweight and is a good pressure fighter as well as a good boxer

ShahenshahG wrote:

TheMackemMawler wrote:

ShahenshahG wrote: whats has he done to make you so angry? By all accounts hes a nice guy and he's the only pro boxer who gets randomly tested all year round, exciting skilled fighter who fights regularly

I fear he's going to beat a hero of my youth!

You've followed Rigondeaux from the beginning?

Since 2002.... granted, I wasn't a youth at 21. I was active at the time and was blown away watching him. Hooked ever since.

Rigondaeux simply isn't anywhere near Donaire's league. He's very good, but there really is a massive gulf in class between them. Also, the styles mix means that Donaire has a big advantage anyway, I just don't see how Rigondaeux can possibly win.

I don't think it's a gulf in pure, God-given talent which would be Rigondeaux's problem here. He's insanely gifted, as lavishly talented as they come. In that respect, he's probably comparable to Nonito, at least.

I think that Donaire just knows a little too much for him, however. Take a look at Donaire a few years back compared to now. He was the essence of a speed fighter, very talented but also visibly flawed. Even as late as his 2007 demolition of Darchinyan, there were things you could pick out as weaknesses or slight chinks in the armour.

Like his countryman Pacquiao, however, he's learned with every fight until he's transformed from that left hand happy buzzsaw in to a two-fisted technical monster. It's only the hard rigours of a long career in the paid ranks which can iron out those amateur-ish flaws the way Pacquiao and Donaire have.

Rigondeaux has looked wonderful at times so far, but facing Donaire would be multiplying what he's faced so far as a professional by a thousand all at once. Those aforementioned amateur tendancies haven't been airbrushed out yet, and we haven't seen him in there with anyone who could realistically have hoped to fully extend him.

Two great talents and special fighters, but right now Donaire just has too much experience, know how and ring IQ for Rigondeaux. Donaire to stop the Cuban late if it happens in 2013.

Donaire to stop him mid rounds, open to that left hook, and I don't think Rigo has a good chin.

Mid rounds is just as possible as late Alex, I agree. Rigondeaux's whiskers might be a little questionable but he's got the tools to keep them protected and very hard to get to, even for someone as good as Donaire.

As a sidenote, with regards to 126 lb - well, there's no real need to for Donaire to be considering it just now. Mares and Rigondeaux are genuinely top quality fights which would bolster his pound for pound claim should he win - Mayweather is really going to have to go some to hold on to that spot in 2013.

Right now, I think Donaire would be too hot for Salido, who even then is possibly the Featherweight most likely to beat him. Salido's not a bad technician and the way he walked Lopez down was scary. As that unbelievable ninth round showed, too, he's also a decent inside operator. But just as Pacquiao's speed meant he could box within himself to beat the big, robust fellas like Clottey and Margarito, I think Donaire, who has the best and quickest footwork in boxing right now, would just be able to safely accumulate points with ambush attacks against Salido. Until Nonito slows down, it's hard to see anyone getting the better of him.

Pacquiao has lost his last two fights and is on the way out. He was knocked out in his last fight by a guy he had beaten previously so his skills are diminishing. People will now look at Donaire as the next Pacquiao so he will get alot of hype over the next while.

Has Donaire fought any tall, out and out boxers, who can bang a bit?

It seems most of his opponents have some kind of flaw. I don't rate Montiel or Darchinyan despite their records, and they were tailor made for Nonito anyway.

Nishioka was past his best.... and who'd he beat? (don't answer, there is something called boxrec).

I havn't seen the Arce fight, I don't need to, it was always going to be a rerun of the Montiel fight. They are similar little guys and it proves nothing. It only cements the well known fact that Nonito has the power to blast little game guys out of the ring early.

Match making makes fighters, look no further than Pacman. He happily feasted upon game plodders. The only out and out boxer he fought who could bang a bit "beat" him more times than not.

Rigo, for me, still holds the key (at least i hope he does!)

Guys like Montiel and Arce are successful because power takes you that bit further in the lighter weights.

None are great boxers, and the divisions aren't as strong as what people make out.

Bit unfair to slate wins over Darchinian and Montiel

Donaire wasn't suppose to beat Darchinian who was the guy at the weight yet Donaire stopped him spectacularly. Montiel was on alot of people's p4p top 10 lists and has never even destroyed like he did in that fight

Tall boxers who can bang, can you name a fighter that matches this discription who campaigned when Donaire was there. Mathebuela stood at 5'11 and Donaire didn't too many problem with the height. He was pretty tall at the weights he's campaigned at at 5'7 so he isn't going to give much away. Does it matter if he hasn't fought tall boxers, Rigondeux stands at 5'4 or about that

The boxers Donaire has fought may be limited but I think all of them would have dealt easily with the likes of Cordoba, Marroquin, Casey etc

I'm saying a particular style suits Nonito (small game fighters). I'm not blaming him for avoiding tall fighters (if there are/were any of note).

His wins over Montiel and Darchinian are outstanding, as too, are Pacman's wins over Hatton, Cotto and Margarito. However, they all had a style that suited Manny's perfectly, this allowed him to show case his talents to such an extent they massively contributed to his legendary status.

Similarly, Montiel and Darchinian and Arce are all tailor made for Nonito.

Emphatic victories like these add to a fighters reputation, they make them look like world beaters, all the while they remain in their comfort zone.

N.B. Nonito and Paccy are actually world beaters

Yea but there isn't any evidence to suggest that he isn't going to be good agaisnt boxers. Granted he wont he as explosive but it doesnt mean he will struggle as he isn't a fighter who relies on his power. Narvaez is a very good boxer (and a souhpaw) but he couldn't outbox Donaire or even get close to and couldn't cope with his speed. Vasquez too is a boxer by nature and was getting Schooled untill Donaire popped a vein in his hand and still manages to outbox Vasquez in parts with 1 hand.

Rigondeux likes to dictate the pace and pick his shots but he hasn't met and opponent with speed or any movement. While Rigondeux is quick, Donaire is quicker and Donaire hits harder. Donaire is also very hae dto catch cle sly and his lateral movement will really throw Rigindeux off

He was a world class amateur but he has been lazy and one paced at times throughout his pro career against less tha stellar competition who have been able to drop him a couple times

Rigo turned pro too late, has been far too inactive and as such has not yet adjusted to the pro game.

Nonito on the other hand is a World Class veteran with multiple world title fights against world class opposition.

Only a fool would think Rigo has the advantage.

However, as a fan of his, for over a decade, i hope he can do it.

I couldn't care less who you support, your entitled to think what you want

I just find it harsh taking a swipe at Doniares record as your implying that he only looks good against brawlers but he has shown vs boxers in Vasquez, Nishioka, Mathbeula and Narvaez that he is never out boxed like you said Pacquiao did

The fighters he has fought are only game plodders given hindsight. Darchiniyan, Marquez, Montiel, Sydorenko weren't suppose to be easy and he won them all spectacularly

I stopped following pro boxing until recently so I never watched the Montiel and Darchiniyan fights live therefore the only way i can look at them is in hindsight.

More to the point, does Nonito look better against small game fighters or not?

WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote:Yea but there isn't any evidence to suggest that he isn't going to be good agaisnt boxers. Granted he wont he as explosive but it doesnt mean he will struggle as he isn't a fighter who relies on his power.

I've never said he will struggle against anyone, neither have i said he relies on power. Even with my limited awareness of current pro's I know that Nonito is certainly the best fighter in weight class. However, my knowledge of fighters' careers is somewhat poor so I was asking whether he had fought any tall, out and out boxers who could bang? I still don't care much for the wins over Montiel and Darchinyan.

The weight classes where Donaire has come from mate, they don't really have tall boxers

Haha! Nice one Jab!

Relatively speaking of course

What are you meaning by game? Do you mean that they come to win (which is more than some of donaire's opponents have done when they get in the ring with him) or do you mean that they are overmatched because if you mean the latter you may need to watch boxing again as they are world class fighters

Nonito does look better against small game fighters as most people his weight class are smaller than him, including Rigondeux who is a small superbantam and based on his current pro career might well be chinny

Donaire does do better with fighters who come to fight, that doesn't mean that you can totally overlook the other fighters like Narvaez, Vasquez, Mathebula, Nishioka etc that he beat relatively easily, easier than Rigondeux beat a past it cordoba

In case you don't know as you said you don't watch live fights recently Donaire wasn't suppose to beat Darchinian especially by a knockout of the year, and Montiel was about 55/45 in donaire's favour before they fought and was expected to go the distance

His opposition is pretty much beyond repress really, he's fought the best throughout his world level career and looks hell bent on clearing out his division which he will do when he wipes the floor with Mares and Rigondeaux. Being a good amateur doesn't always translate to being a good pro and from what i've seen of Rigo he appears very set in his amateur ways and is rated almost entirely on his amateur brilliance rather than showing anything outstanding in the pro game.

WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote:What are you meaning by game?

WHU_Champo_League_in_7Yrs wrote: Nonito does look better against small game fighters.

Oh you obviously knew what I meant.

I suppose you want to see him in with Celestino Cabellero next then Mackem?