About v2The Greatest: Introduction & the Rules
+10
ChequeredJersey
Thomond
RuggerBoy
Biltong
Bathman_in_London
fa0019
chewed_mintie
GunsGerms
OzT
George Carlin
14 posters
The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Rugby Union :: International
Page 1 of 1
The Greatest: Introduction & the Rules
by George Carlin Wed 19 Dec 2012, 9:19 am
The Preamble
It's the end of the year, so let's go for something ambitious.
On the old 606 forum, I ran a series of public votes for which players should comprise the greatest ever XV. It attracted a huge number of votes and an enormous number of handbags. The main cause for objection was the fact that whilst the greatest ever team comprised those voted on by posters, the players that were offered up for selection in the first place were all chosen by me. And to be obtuse and encourage banter, I intentionally made some controversial choices.
As 606v2 has attracted new folks unfettered by convention, I'd like to try the same thing again but this time I shall let everyone choose who is up for the final player vote in the first instance.
There are therefore two parts to what should be the definitive poll of polls on whom the very best of the best should be:
Part 1: Selection of the possible candidates
1. The first stage will involve me sending a series of emails with possible players who most people believe should be up for the vote as to the greatest in that position.
2. From the list of players selected, everyone should post, choosing only one name.
3. On 24 December 2012, I shall lock the threads and the top three players attracting the greatest number of nominations will go forward to the subsequent vote as to which of those three was the greatest.
Part 2: Selection of the team
1. Once Part 1 is complete and we know whom we're voting on, a final round of voting will commence.
2. For each position, I'll send a series of emails - one per position - where posters will vote from which of the three shortlisted candidates from Part 1 is their favourite player. I may, if I can be arsed, look up some stats and make the case for each player on the shortlist.
3. One vote per poster.
4. I have to accept first answers.
5. Everyone should play nicely.
6. A series of rules and assumptions for voting will be set out at the time - i.e. professional v amateur era, players suggested out of their conventional position, players who have much greater or lesser longevity that others, etc.
The Rationale
I am in my 35th year now and have been watching the sport since I was a youngfeller.
It has struck me that lots of posters here still have all of their hair, have never seen the original Star Wars and don't have a great deal of knowledge about past players or events. If these polls help even one of those lucky I-phone-wielding foetuses learn a little about past players, past teams or past glories, then I will be well satisfied.
As Plato said, "to be ignorant of what occurred before your birth is to be forever a child".
Or as Rudge said in History Boys - "History? It's just one bloody thing after another".
Any suggestions as to improvements to the above methodologies will be considered, other than those relating to logistics - i.e. I couldn't give a rat's chuff if you all find it 'oh so hard' to decide on who should be shortlisted or in the team. There are only so many hours in the day and if I start giving everyone two votes, I'll be here all day and be (a) imminently divorced and (ii) almost certainly fired.
Muchas gracias. Shortlist emails to follow.
Stay frosty. Thanks in advance for all contributions.
It's the end of the year, so let's go for something ambitious.
On the old 606 forum, I ran a series of public votes for which players should comprise the greatest ever XV. It attracted a huge number of votes and an enormous number of handbags. The main cause for objection was the fact that whilst the greatest ever team comprised those voted on by posters, the players that were offered up for selection in the first place were all chosen by me. And to be obtuse and encourage banter, I intentionally made some controversial choices.
As 606v2 has attracted new folks unfettered by convention, I'd like to try the same thing again but this time I shall let everyone choose who is up for the final player vote in the first instance.
There are therefore two parts to what should be the definitive poll of polls on whom the very best of the best should be:
Part 1: Selection of the possible candidates
1. The first stage will involve me sending a series of emails with possible players who most people believe should be up for the vote as to the greatest in that position.
2. From the list of players selected, everyone should post, choosing only one name.
3. On 24 December 2012, I shall lock the threads and the top three players attracting the greatest number of nominations will go forward to the subsequent vote as to which of those three was the greatest.
Part 2: Selection of the team
1. Once Part 1 is complete and we know whom we're voting on, a final round of voting will commence.
2. For each position, I'll send a series of emails - one per position - where posters will vote from which of the three shortlisted candidates from Part 1 is their favourite player. I may, if I can be arsed, look up some stats and make the case for each player on the shortlist.
3. One vote per poster.
4. I have to accept first answers.
5. Everyone should play nicely.
6. A series of rules and assumptions for voting will be set out at the time - i.e. professional v amateur era, players suggested out of their conventional position, players who have much greater or lesser longevity that others, etc.
The Rationale
I am in my 35th year now and have been watching the sport since I was a youngfeller.
It has struck me that lots of posters here still have all of their hair, have never seen the original Star Wars and don't have a great deal of knowledge about past players or events. If these polls help even one of those lucky I-phone-wielding foetuses learn a little about past players, past teams or past glories, then I will be well satisfied.
As Plato said, "to be ignorant of what occurred before your birth is to be forever a child".
Or as Rudge said in History Boys - "History? It's just one bloody thing after another".
Any suggestions as to improvements to the above methodologies will be considered, other than those relating to logistics - i.e. I couldn't give a rat's chuff if you all find it 'oh so hard' to decide on who should be shortlisted or in the team. There are only so many hours in the day and if I start giving everyone two votes, I'll be here all day and be (a) imminently divorced and (ii) almost certainly fired.
Muchas gracias. Shortlist emails to follow.
Stay frosty. Thanks in advance for all contributions.
Last edited by George Carlin on Mon 28 Jan 2013, 8:59 am; edited 2 times in total
George Carlin- Admin
- Posts : 15802
Join date : 2011-06-23
Location : KSA
Re: The Greatest: Introduction & the Rules
by OzT Wed 19 Dec 2012, 9:55 am
How do I get on the email list of your players to vote from please?
OzT- Posts : 1164
Join date : 2011-02-10
Location : Chessington
Re: The Greatest: Introduction & the Rules
by George Carlin Wed 19 Dec 2012, 10:20 am
I think that voting will be done just by responding to the posts in the usual way Ozzy - much simpler than anyone having to PM me.
I'll just count the votes according to the thread posts.
I'll just count the votes according to the thread posts.
George Carlin- Admin
- Posts : 15802
Join date : 2011-06-23
Location : KSA
Re: The Greatest: Introduction & the Rules
by GunsGerms Wed 19 Dec 2012, 10:25 am
1-15 Drico.
I am balding and was present at the last Leinster v New Zealand match. I doubt many posters even know when that was. I have seen the original Star Wars and the empire strikes back and the return of the jedi but raiders of the lost arc is my favorite Harrison ford movie. When I was a kid I used to love black and white Tarzan movies with Johnny Weismuller, cheetah and Jane. None of this CGI,3D,HD,colour nonsense.
I remember the days when Ireland were the annual whipping boys in the six nations yet for some reason I always have and always will look forward to the six nations like it is Christmas. I was at the 1991 RWC quarter final when Australia robbed my hero Philip Matthews Irish team in the last minute and I wept like a baby. Those were to good days, Campo's goosestep, no kicking tees, no dropkick restarts, rugby balls with no grip, four points for a try god damn it.
Do I qualify for the panel?
I am balding and was present at the last Leinster v New Zealand match. I doubt many posters even know when that was. I have seen the original Star Wars and the empire strikes back and the return of the jedi but raiders of the lost arc is my favorite Harrison ford movie. When I was a kid I used to love black and white Tarzan movies with Johnny Weismuller, cheetah and Jane. None of this CGI,3D,HD,colour nonsense.
I remember the days when Ireland were the annual whipping boys in the six nations yet for some reason I always have and always will look forward to the six nations like it is Christmas. I was at the 1991 RWC quarter final when Australia robbed my hero Philip Matthews Irish team in the last minute and I wept like a baby. Those were to good days, Campo's goosestep, no kicking tees, no dropkick restarts, rugby balls with no grip, four points for a try god damn it.
Do I qualify for the panel?
GunsGerms- Posts : 12542
Join date : 2011-05-31
Age : 44
Location : Ireland
Re: The Greatest: Introduction & the Rules
by chewed_mintie Wed 19 Dec 2012, 10:30 am
GunsGerms wrote:1-15 Drico.
I am balding and was present at the last Leinster v New Zealand match. I doubt many posters even know when that was. I have seen the original Star Wars and the empire strikes back and the return of the jedi but raiders of the lost arc is my favorite Harrison ford movie. When I was a kid I used to love black and white Tarzan movies with Johnny Weismuller, cheetah and Jane. None of this CGI,3D,HD,colour nonsense.
I remember the days when Ireland were the annual whipping boys in the six nations yet for some reason I always have and always will look forward to the six nations like it is Christmas. I was at the 1991 RWC quarter final when Australia robbed my hero Philip Matthews Irish team in the last minute and I wept like a baby. Those were to good days, Campo's goosestep, no kicking tees, no dropkick restarts, rugby balls with no grip, four points for a try god damn it.
Do I qualify for the panel?
apart from the Johnny Weismuller movies....I can remember all of this and I'm only 32! Were you present when Johnny won a hatful of gold medals too guns?
Star Wars does pre-date me but I did see it on VHS, and the Return of the Jedi was an 80's film
chewed_mintie- Posts : 1225
Join date : 2011-05-09
Location : Cheshire
Re: The Greatest: Introduction & the Rules
by George Carlin Wed 19 Dec 2012, 10:34 am
GunsGerms wrote:1-15 Drico.
I am balding and was present at the last Leinster v New Zealand match. I doubt many posters even know when that was. I have seen the original Star Wars and the empire strikes back and the return of the jedi but raiders of the lost arc is my favorite Harrison ford movie. When I was a kid I used to love black and white Tarzan movies with Johnny Weismuller, cheetah and Jane. None of this CGI,3D,HD,colour nonsense.
I remember the days when Ireland were the annual whipping boys in the six nations yet for some reason I always have and always will look forward to the six nations like it is Christmas. I was at the 1991 RWC quarter final when Australia robbed my hero Philip Matthews Irish team in the last minute and I wept like a baby. Those were to good days, Campo's goosestep, no kicking tees, no dropkick restarts, rugby balls with no grip, four points for a try god damn it.
Do I qualify for the panel?
George Carlin- Admin
- Posts : 15802
Join date : 2011-06-23
Location : KSA
Re: The Greatest: Introduction & the Rules
by chewed_mintie Wed 19 Dec 2012, 10:39 am
GunsGerms wrote:I am balding and was present at the last Leinster v New Zealand match. I doubt many posters even know when that was.
Oh, this was 1989 wasn’t it? I remember the tour video “The Good, the Bad and the Rugby”. We played Munster, Leinster, Connacht and Ulster as well as the famous Willie Anderson haka charge at Lansdowne Road in the Test Match. Also notable for the disallowing of what would have been Grant Fox’s first test try, which was called back due to Sean Fitzpatrick’s foot being in the field of play when he threw into a lineout about 2-3 mins before hand. The ball boy had to run on to the pitch to tell the ref (was it Sandy Mitchell??) that the linesman’s flag was still up....
chewed_mintie- Posts : 1225
Join date : 2011-05-09
Location : Cheshire
Re: The Greatest: Introduction & the Rules
by GunsGerms Wed 19 Dec 2012, 10:49 am
chewed_mintie wrote:GunsGerms wrote:I am balding and was present at the last Leinster v New Zealand match. I doubt many posters even know when that was.
Oh, this was 1989 wasn’t it? I remember the tour video “The Good, the Bad and the Rugby”. We played Munster, Leinster, Connacht and Ulster as well as the famous Willie Anderson haka charge at Lansdowne Road in the Test Match. Also notable for the disallowing of what would have been Grant Fox’s first test try, which was called back due to Sean Fitzpatrick’s foot being in the field of play when he threw into a lineout about 2-3 mins before hand. The ball boy had to run on to the pitch to tell the ref (was it Sandy Mitchell??) that the linesman’s flag was still up....
Good memory. I was also at that Ireland NZ game. I remember Grant Fox very well. In particular his kicking style. When I went back to under 10s rugby training the following week I tried to replicate his goal kicking style.
Dont remember the ball boy getting involved, thats hilarious, fair play to him.
GunsGerms- Posts : 12542
Join date : 2011-05-31
Age : 44
Location : Ireland
Re: The Greatest: Introduction & the Rules
by GunsGerms Wed 19 Dec 2012, 10:51 am
I can also honestly say I remember thinking some of the things the ABs did was amazing and trying sissors moves, as they were called then and reverse passes in training. Some seriously flash stuff.
GunsGerms- Posts : 12542
Join date : 2011-05-31
Age : 44
Location : Ireland
Re: The Greatest: Introduction & the Rules
by fa0019 Wed 19 Dec 2012, 11:31 am
Is it really possible to find such a list?
To be hones I think you'd need to be 60+ to have a decent gasp of things.
I think I would be considered old here given I watched the 87 world cup as a lad (albeit on TV) so it will be difficult to get opinions from guys who are nominating players from hearsay/overloaded from pro era.
Am sure half the winners will be from the pro era bar a couple of lions legends etc like Edwards (most of the voters will probably have never seen him play, only read stories (unless they've seen the odd game on ESPN Classic).
In reality if 10 of the players are not of Saffa & Kiwi origins then the list will probably be biased. Those guys beat everyone for 100 years before the pro era. Everyone from the UK hails the 71 & 74 Lions... they tend to forget the 10+ losing series they've had or the multiple victories those sides inflicted on the home nations over the years.
Worth a stab though and good luck to you.
To be hones I think you'd need to be 60+ to have a decent gasp of things.
I think I would be considered old here given I watched the 87 world cup as a lad (albeit on TV) so it will be difficult to get opinions from guys who are nominating players from hearsay/overloaded from pro era.
Am sure half the winners will be from the pro era bar a couple of lions legends etc like Edwards (most of the voters will probably have never seen him play, only read stories (unless they've seen the odd game on ESPN Classic).
In reality if 10 of the players are not of Saffa & Kiwi origins then the list will probably be biased. Those guys beat everyone for 100 years before the pro era. Everyone from the UK hails the 71 & 74 Lions... they tend to forget the 10+ losing series they've had or the multiple victories those sides inflicted on the home nations over the years.
Worth a stab though and good luck to you.
fa0019- Posts : 8196
Join date : 2011-07-25
Re: The Greatest: Introduction & the Rules
by Bathman_in_London Wed 19 Dec 2012, 11:44 am
Presumably whatever the final makeup of the team it would be beaten by the majority of NZ sides over the years?!
If any players who have appeared in the 6 nations in the last 10 years make the team the whole thing should be dismissed...
Good fun idea though, I will throw in my 2p worth
If any players who have appeared in the 6 nations in the last 10 years make the team the whole thing should be dismissed...
Good fun idea though, I will throw in my 2p worth
Bathman_in_London- Posts : 2266
Join date : 2011-06-03
Re: The Greatest: Introduction & the Rules
by GunsGerms Wed 19 Dec 2012, 11:46 am
chewed_mintie wrote:GunsGerms wrote:1-15 Drico.
I am balding and was present at the last Leinster v New Zealand match. I doubt many posters even know when that was. I have seen the original Star Wars and the empire strikes back and the return of the jedi but raiders of the lost arc is my favorite Harrison ford movie. When I was a kid I used to love black and white Tarzan movies with Johnny Weismuller, cheetah and Jane. None of this CGI,3D,HD,colour nonsense.
I remember the days when Ireland were the annual whipping boys in the six nations yet for some reason I always have and always will look forward to the six nations like it is Christmas. I was at the 1991 RWC quarter final when Australia robbed my hero Philip Matthews Irish team in the last minute and I wept like a baby. Those were to good days, Campo's goosestep, no kicking tees, no dropkick restarts, rugby balls with no grip, four points for a try god damn it.
Do I qualify for the panel?
apart from the Johnny Weismuller movies....I can remember all of this and I'm only 32! Were you present when Johnny won a hatful of gold medals too guns?
Star Wars does pre-date me but I did see it on VHS, and the Return of the Jedi was an 80's film
I dont remember any of the swimming. Im sure it was well before my time. I am also 32.
Last edited by GunsGerms on Wed 19 Dec 2012, 11:52 am; edited 1 time in total
GunsGerms- Posts : 12542
Join date : 2011-05-31
Age : 44
Location : Ireland
Re: The Greatest: Introduction & the Rules
by Biltong Wed 19 Dec 2012, 11:50 am
George a suggestion, due to the fact that most people (I include myself) is biased in their judgement of who the best player is in each position, perhaps it would be advisable to choose a player per position voted by per country.
In other words, we should have the english voters vote amongst them for the best 15, the wlesh posters for whomever they deem the best 15 etc.
In the end, it may cause more work, but you could have a scenario where it ends up like this.
English - Danny Care
Welsh - Phillips
NZ - Justin Marshall
OZ - George Gregan
SA - Joost v d Westhuizen.
In other words, we should have the english voters vote amongst them for the best 15, the wlesh posters for whomever they deem the best 15 etc.
In the end, it may cause more work, but you could have a scenario where it ends up like this.
English - Danny Care
Welsh - Phillips
NZ - Justin Marshall
OZ - George Gregan
SA - Joost v d Westhuizen.
Biltong- Moderator
- Posts : 26945
Join date : 2011-04-27
Location : Twilight zone
Re: The Greatest: Introduction & the Rules
by George Carlin Wed 19 Dec 2012, 11:52 am
Biltong - totally agreed but that's the beauty of it.
Hopefully when all of this is done, we can sit with a glass of old peculiar and sit on the verandah shaking our heads at the folly of youth and the cycloptic nature of rugby supporters.
I think it may also be more difficult to group the posters than to actually do the vote!
Hopefully when all of this is done, we can sit with a glass of old peculiar and sit on the verandah shaking our heads at the folly of youth and the cycloptic nature of rugby supporters.
I think it may also be more difficult to group the posters than to actually do the vote!
George Carlin- Admin
- Posts : 15802
Join date : 2011-06-23
Location : KSA
Re: The Greatest: Introduction & the Rules
by OzT Wed 19 Dec 2012, 11:54 am
Well I was playing when tries were 3 pointers... and flankers were called breakaways as that was what we did, hanging on the scrums to break away... great days until everybody else grew taller and bigger and I stayed same height but just got bigger, hence my move to the hooker position...
Ahh '91, great wise wallabies team then, fooled the English in the final, after the big semi win against the ABs, good days yes!!
Ahh '91, great wise wallabies team then, fooled the English in the final, after the big semi win against the ABs, good days yes!!
OzT- Posts : 1164
Join date : 2011-02-10
Location : Chessington
Re: The Greatest: Introduction & the Rules
by GunsGerms Wed 19 Dec 2012, 11:59 am
OzT wrote:Well I was playing when tries were 3 pointers... and flankers were called breakaways as that was what we did, hanging on the scrums to break away... great days until everybody else grew taller and bigger and I stayed same height but just got bigger, hence my move to the hooker position...
Ahh '91, great wise wallabies team then, fooled the English in the final, after the big semi win against the ABs, good days yes!!
I was also at the semi Aus v NZ. After the match I went round the back of the old Landsdowne road west stand and waited behind barriers for a couple of hours for Campo to come out to his coach so I could get his autograph. When he finally came out he snubbed everyone. However, the great Bob Dywer came over to me and took the 1991 RWC Wallaby badge off his blazer and gave it to me. I was 11 at the time but Ill never forget that.
Thanks Bob.
GunsGerms- Posts : 12542
Join date : 2011-05-31
Age : 44
Location : Ireland
Re: The Greatest: Introduction & the Rules
by OzT Wed 19 Dec 2012, 12:03 pm
Bob's a gent for sure, Compo sometimes can be a bit like that. Back home since retirement in his shop he is known to be chatty to customers, but yes, there were times when he would snub not just the public who paid to see him, but from reading bios even his teammates.
Lucky you watching the natch, I watched it on telly, not quite the same I know!
Lucky you watching the natch, I watched it on telly, not quite the same I know!
OzT- Posts : 1164
Join date : 2011-02-10
Location : Chessington
Re: The Greatest: Introduction & the Rules
by RuggerBoy Wed 19 Dec 2012, 12:05 pm
Biltong wrote:George a suggestion, due to the fact that most people (I include myself) is biased in their judgement of who the best player is in each position, perhaps it would be advisable to choose a player per position voted by per country.
In other words, we should have the english voters vote amongst them for the best 15, the wlesh posters for whomever they deem the best 15 etc.
In the end, it may cause more work, but you could have a scenario where it ends up like this.
English - Danny Care
Welsh - Phillips
NZ - Justin Marshall
OZ - George Gregan
SA - Joost v d Westhuizen.
I can't help but agree with Biltong. I was looking at the 4 and 5 selections and realised there was not a single Welshman. What happened to Geoff Wheel and Allan Martin from Wales's great days? Then I realised I am probably too old for this sort of thing, ah well.
RuggerBoy- Posts : 164
Join date : 2012-11-21
Location : Expat Welshman in Dorset
Re: The Greatest: Introduction & the Rules
by Thomond Wed 19 Dec 2012, 12:06 pm
I'm part of the newer breed of fans, who would have struggled to remember Lomu live in 95 but have seen enough in the past. Being raised on Bill McClaren in the rugby sense, O'Hehir in the GAA and Motson in the soccer! My dad did things right!
Thomond- Posts : 10663
Join date : 2011-04-13
Location : The People's Republic of Cork
Re: The Greatest: Introduction & the Rules
by GunsGerms Wed 19 Dec 2012, 12:06 pm
At that WC Campo was a sensation so everyone wanted a piece of him so I cant really blame him.
GunsGerms- Posts : 12542
Join date : 2011-05-31
Age : 44
Location : Ireland
Re: The Greatest: Introduction & the Rules
by ChequeredJersey Wed 19 Dec 2012, 12:19 pm
As much as I enjoy this kind of thing, I'll just warn you you'll undoubtedly e told you are missing key men off your list. I maxed out the poll options everytime when I did it and still missed off legendary names
ChequeredJersey- Posts : 18707
Join date : 2011-12-23
Age : 35
Location : London, UK
Re: The Greatest: Introduction & the Rules
by Biltong Wed 19 Dec 2012, 12:22 pm
So far it seems CJ is agreeing with many of my choices (perhaps I should say some) anyway, just as a pre cursor to the whole thing being wound up.
Here is my forward pack to take on anything you guys might want to TRY to throw at my team.
1. Os du Randt
2. Sean Fitzpatrick
3. Carl Heyman
4. Martin Johnson
5. Vicki Matfield
6. Juan Smith
7. Richie McCaw
8. Fernandes Lobbe.
Here is my forward pack to take on anything you guys might want to TRY to throw at my team.
1. Os du Randt
2. Sean Fitzpatrick
3. Carl Heyman
4. Martin Johnson
5. Vicki Matfield
6. Juan Smith
7. Richie McCaw
8. Fernandes Lobbe.
Biltong- Moderator
- Posts : 26945
Join date : 2011-04-27
Location : Twilight zone
Re: The Greatest: Introduction & the Rules
by Biltong Wed 19 Dec 2012, 12:25 pm
The 8 is open to discussion, I like Zinzan as well.
Biltong- Moderator
- Posts : 26945
Join date : 2011-04-27
Location : Twilight zone
Re: The Greatest: Introduction & the Rules
by fa0019 Wed 19 Dec 2012, 12:26 pm
Might as well change the threads to pro era.... 90% of the choices seem to be going that way anyhow.
Bit unfair on guys like Uli Schmidt who has been known as the best hooker in SA's history until Smit came into the frey for instance.
Bit unfair on guys like Uli Schmidt who has been known as the best hooker in SA's history until Smit came into the frey for instance.
fa0019- Posts : 8196
Join date : 2011-07-25
Re: The Greatest: Introduction & the Rules
by RuggerBoy Wed 19 Dec 2012, 12:31 pm
Biltong, the only thing that ever comes to mind when I think of Os du Randt is when Scott Gibbs put him on his backside in 1997. One of my favourite moments.
RuggerBoy- Posts : 164
Join date : 2012-11-21
Location : Expat Welshman in Dorset
Re: The Greatest: Introduction & the Rules
by OzT Wed 19 Dec 2012, 12:32 pm
Whilst Matfield was good at lineouts, I would have picked Eales at 5, not because he's aussie, but he had probably the best all round skills for any forward in the pro era, imho, so has more to add to a side. But a pairing of Matfield MJ is not to be sniffed at, I'd have to put it against Eales and MJ though.... looks like poor martin wil be playing a lot!!
OzT- Posts : 1164
Join date : 2011-02-10
Location : Chessington
Re: The Greatest: Introduction & the Rules
by Biltong Wed 19 Dec 2012, 12:33 pm
RuggerBoy wrote:Biltong, the only thing that ever comes to mind when I think of Os du Randt is when Scott Gibbs put him on his backside in 1997. One of my favourite moments.
Even Superman has weaknesses.
Biltong- Moderator
- Posts : 26945
Join date : 2011-04-27
Location : Twilight zone
Re: The Greatest: Introduction & the Rules
by GunsGerms Wed 19 Dec 2012, 12:49 pm
I think there should be different categories defined by the age of the posters contributing. I have no interest in commenting on pre 80s players ive never seen playing and have no interest in a 20yo welsh mans stories of how Gareth Edwards is the greatest of all time. However, I do enjoy the anecdotes that these threads throw up from guys who have witnessed such greats play.
Seniors category: 35 and above.
At your peak category: 28-35
Kids: 28 and below.
Seniors category: 35 and above.
At your peak category: 28-35
Kids: 28 and below.
GunsGerms- Posts : 12542
Join date : 2011-05-31
Age : 44
Location : Ireland
Re: The Greatest: Introduction & the Rules
by nganboy Thu 20 Dec 2012, 3:08 am
At almost 44 I like to think of myself at my peak
nganboy- Posts : 1868
Join date : 2011-05-11
Age : 55
Location : New Zealand
Re: The Greatest: Introduction & the Rules
by emack2 Thu 20 Dec 2012, 7:50 am
The idea is fine and my comments because of my age mean i have seen more than most.IF my comments seem out of place it is just being a devils advocate
i `ve commented in most.Also made comments about different eras to help create the snapshot you desire.
i `ve commented in most.Also made comments about different eras to help create the snapshot you desire.
emack2- Posts : 3686
Join date : 2011-04-01
Age : 81
Location : Bournemouth
Re: The Greatest: Introduction & the Rules
by George Carlin Thu 20 Dec 2012, 8:25 am
It's much appreciated, Alan.
As I said on the blindside thread in response to your comments, what we're trying for (list of the best players) is obviously not what we'll achieve (a list of the best players people have seen) but that doesn't render the exercise without value. It will be an interesting snapshot of the 606 demographic, if nothing else. For what it's worth, when I did this exercise on the old 606, almost everyone disagreed with my own personal team of favourites, which was:
15: Christian Cullen (New Zealand)
14: David Campese (Australia)
13: Philippe Sella (France)
12: Mike Gibson (Ireland)
11: Jonah Lomu (New Zealand)
10: Phil Bennett (Wales)
9: Gareth Edwards (Wales)
8: Zinzan Brooke (New Zealand)
7: Michael Jones (New Zealand)
6: Richard Hill (England)
5: Colin Meades (New Zealand)
4: Frik du Preez (South Africa)
3: Graham Price (Wales)
2: Sean Fitzpatrick (New Zealand)
1: Os du Randt (South Africa)
Let's see where we get to this time, now that I've given everyone the chance to choose the shortlist for each position themselves.
As I said on the blindside thread in response to your comments, what we're trying for (list of the best players) is obviously not what we'll achieve (a list of the best players people have seen) but that doesn't render the exercise without value. It will be an interesting snapshot of the 606 demographic, if nothing else. For what it's worth, when I did this exercise on the old 606, almost everyone disagreed with my own personal team of favourites, which was:
15: Christian Cullen (New Zealand)
14: David Campese (Australia)
13: Philippe Sella (France)
12: Mike Gibson (Ireland)
11: Jonah Lomu (New Zealand)
10: Phil Bennett (Wales)
9: Gareth Edwards (Wales)
8: Zinzan Brooke (New Zealand)
7: Michael Jones (New Zealand)
6: Richard Hill (England)
5: Colin Meades (New Zealand)
4: Frik du Preez (South Africa)
3: Graham Price (Wales)
2: Sean Fitzpatrick (New Zealand)
1: Os du Randt (South Africa)
Let's see where we get to this time, now that I've given everyone the chance to choose the shortlist for each position themselves.
George Carlin- Admin
- Posts : 15802
Join date : 2011-06-23
Location : KSA
Re: The Greatest: Introduction & the Rules
by kiakahaaotearoa Thu 20 Dec 2012, 10:44 am
Nice threads George and you have wasted my entire morning. 
My team is:
15 Cullen
14 Jason Robinson
11 Lomu
13 Sella 12 Tim Horan
10 Dan Carter 9 Gareth Edwards
8 Zinzan Brooke 7 Michael Jones 6 Richard Hill
5 John Eales 4 Colin Meads
3 Jason Leonard 2 Sean Fitzpatrick 1 Os du Randt
Replacements: Carl Hayman, Keith Wood, Victor Matfield, Richie McCaw, Joost van der Westhuizen, Johnny Wilkinson, JOC as utility.
See you in the trenches.
My team is:
15 Cullen
14 Jason Robinson
11 Lomu
13 Sella 12 Tim Horan
10 Dan Carter 9 Gareth Edwards
8 Zinzan Brooke 7 Michael Jones 6 Richard Hill
5 John Eales 4 Colin Meads
3 Jason Leonard 2 Sean Fitzpatrick 1 Os du Randt
Replacements: Carl Hayman, Keith Wood, Victor Matfield, Richie McCaw, Joost van der Westhuizen, Johnny Wilkinson, JOC as utility.
See you in the trenches.
kiakahaaotearoa- Posts : 8287
Join date : 2011-05-10
Location : Madrid
Re: The Greatest: Introduction & the Rules
by kiakahaaotearoa Thu 20 Dec 2012, 1:37 pm
Then I'd like to see this match up against my team.
15.Serge Blanco 14 Jeff Wilson 11 David Campese
13 BOD 12 Tana Umaga
10 Steve Larkham 9 George Gregan
8 Burger 7 Magne 6 Dusatoir
5. Martin Johnson 4. Brad Thorn
3. Olo Brown 2. Ibanez 1. Craig Dowd
Replacements: Greg Somerville, Du Plessis, Bakkies Botha, Juan Smith, Pichot, Barry John, Dominici.
15.Serge Blanco 14 Jeff Wilson 11 David Campese
13 BOD 12 Tana Umaga
10 Steve Larkham 9 George Gregan
8 Burger 7 Magne 6 Dusatoir
5. Martin Johnson 4. Brad Thorn
3. Olo Brown 2. Ibanez 1. Craig Dowd
Replacements: Greg Somerville, Du Plessis, Bakkies Botha, Juan Smith, Pichot, Barry John, Dominici.
kiakahaaotearoa- Posts : 8287
Join date : 2011-05-10
Location : Madrid
Re: The Greatest: Introduction & the Rules
by Bathman_in_London Thu 20 Dec 2012, 3:43 pm
Great series of threads by the way George, has helped me waste a slow pre Christmas day at work! Its also interesting to see how other people may judge 'greatest'.
Bathman_in_London- Posts : 2266
Join date : 2011-06-03
Re: The Greatest: Introduction & the Rules
by emack2 Thu 20 Dec 2012, 9:24 pm
Right George in the spirit of the thing i`m old and biased so a couple of cavaets.15 players only,one on reputation on theword of the only surviving Kiwi Wally Argus 91[Nzforces side 1945-6]rules circa 1960`s rucking legal,lifting in the Lineout illegal.
Loosehead Kevin Skinner
Hooker Ron Hemi
Tight head Ken Gray
Flank Ritchie McCaw
Lock Colin Meads
Lock Stan Meads
Flank Michael Jones
Eight Kelvin Tremain
Scrum half Desmond Connor
First 5/8 Dan Carter
second 5/8 J.B.Smith.
Wing Jonah Lomu
Centre Conrad Smith
Wing Peter Jackson
full Back Robert Henry Scott.
The Winger throws into the Lineout,options at 2,3,4,5,6,7,8 both props.Locks and the whole back row are genuine lineout options.
Flankers play right and left.
THE best side i`ve seen was either 1963-4,or 1967 AllBlacks .The 1967 side was chosen for SA before Care/Hart blocked it often wonder how theywould have fared.
In cidentally I think i`m correct that technically Maori`s COULD have toured SA in 1928 and 1949 but were not picked for diplomatic purposes.
Apartheid laws not being in place until a later date SA readers could confirm or deny this.
I am old,yes and biased,cursed with retentative memory don`t need to Google facts just remember them.
I`ve chosen the Meads brothers at Lock as a pair because Colin considered Stan the BEST of all his partners he had many.
This is my way of creating a snapshot in time you wish AND those i`ve named I genuinely think were THE best i`ve seen Johnnie Smith aside and he is Legend.
BUT for his disability Jonah Lomu COULD have been the best wing of all time.
Loosehead Kevin Skinner
Hooker Ron Hemi
Tight head Ken Gray
Flank Ritchie McCaw
Lock Colin Meads
Lock Stan Meads
Flank Michael Jones
Eight Kelvin Tremain
Scrum half Desmond Connor
First 5/8 Dan Carter
second 5/8 J.B.Smith.
Wing Jonah Lomu
Centre Conrad Smith
Wing Peter Jackson
full Back Robert Henry Scott.
The Winger throws into the Lineout,options at 2,3,4,5,6,7,8 both props.Locks and the whole back row are genuine lineout options.
Flankers play right and left.
THE best side i`ve seen was either 1963-4,or 1967 AllBlacks .The 1967 side was chosen for SA before Care/Hart blocked it often wonder how theywould have fared.
In cidentally I think i`m correct that technically Maori`s COULD have toured SA in 1928 and 1949 but were not picked for diplomatic purposes.
Apartheid laws not being in place until a later date SA readers could confirm or deny this.
I am old,yes and biased,cursed with retentative memory don`t need to Google facts just remember them.
I`ve chosen the Meads brothers at Lock as a pair because Colin considered Stan the BEST of all his partners he had many.
This is my way of creating a snapshot in time you wish AND those i`ve named I genuinely think were THE best i`ve seen Johnnie Smith aside and he is Legend.
BUT for his disability Jonah Lomu COULD have been the best wing of all time.
emack2- Posts : 3686
Join date : 2011-04-01
Age : 81
Location : Bournemouth
Re: The Greatest: Introduction & the Rules
by Taylorman Fri 21 Dec 2012, 12:22 am
emack2 wrote:
BUT for his disability Jonah Lomu COULD have been the best wing of all time.
Thats true Alan, he could have carried the entire 15 on his back to the line rather than the customary 8 players he could only manage with his disability. Such a shame we never got to see that.
Taylorman- Posts : 12343
Join date : 2011-02-02
Location : Wellington NZ
Re: The Greatest: Introduction & the Rules
by Taylorman Thu 27 Dec 2012, 8:39 pm
After a brief look at the first round theres a probability of 6? AB's. Probably a fair, if not slightly over representation of 15.
Favourites look to be Fitzy, Cully, Lomu, Jones or McCaw and Carter.
Possibles look to be just Zinny though I'd have gone for Davies or Buck. Zinny took far too long to establish himself I thought- he was seconds to any one of jonesy, buck, whetton from 87-90 at least.
Favourites look to be Fitzy, Cully, Lomu, Jones or McCaw and Carter.
Possibles look to be just Zinny though I'd have gone for Davies or Buck. Zinny took far too long to establish himself I thought- he was seconds to any one of jonesy, buck, whetton from 87-90 at least.
Taylorman- Posts : 12343
Join date : 2011-02-02
Location : Wellington NZ
Similar topics» An Introduction
» Introduction
» Introduction
» Introduction
» Just how far does the statement "rules are rules" go?
» Introduction
» Introduction
» Introduction
» Just how far does the statement "rules are rules" go?
The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Rugby Union :: International
Page 1 of 1
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum