Ospreys v Scarlets

First topic message reminder :

Venue: Liberty Stadium
Date: Wednesday, 26 December
Kick-off: 17:30 GMT

Coverage: Live on S4C, BBC Radio Wales, online & Radio Cymru

TEAMS

Ospreys:
15 Richard Fussell
14 Ross Jones
13 Andrew Bishop
12 Ashley Beck
11 Eli Walker
10 Dan Biggar
9 Kahn Fotuali'i (Capt)
1 Ryan Bevington
2 Richard Hibbard
3 Adam Jones
4 Ian Gough
5 James King
6 Ryan Jones
7 Justin Tipuric
8 Joe Bearman

REPLACEMENTS
16 Scott Baldwin
17 Duncan Jones
18 Cai Griffiths
19 Lloyd Peers
20 Morgan Allen
21 Rhys Webb
22 Matthew Morgan
23 Tom Isaacs

Scarlets:
15 Liam Williams
14 George North
13 Jonathan Davies (capt)
12 Scott Williams
11 Kristian Phillips
10 Aled Thomas
9 Aled Davies
1 Phil John
2 Matthew Rees
3 Samson Lee
4 Jake Ball
5 George Earle
6 Josh Turnbull
7 Aaron Shingler
8 Kieran Murphy

Replacements:
16 Emyr Phillips
17 Shaun Hopkins
18 Jacobie Adriaanse
19 Sione Timani
20 Rob McCusker
21 Tavis Knoyle
22 Gareth Owen
23 Gareth Maule

Referee: Nigel Owens (WRU)
Assistant referees: Gwyn Morris, Jon Mason (WRU)
Citing commissioner: Ray Wilton (WRU)
TMO: Derek Bevan (WRU)

Here's the place for all the pre match, during match and post match chat. Will update thread with teams and relevant info. Going to be the biggest derby attendance for 2 years, fair to say the the home side will start as favourites but if the conditions are better good then the explosive Scarlets backline may have something to say about that! How does everyone see it going?

Try inconclusive, but that's OK cause it's an O's scrum.

Ball lost...and Kristian Phillips gets the boys in red out of danger.

Some more handbags off the ball - Tippy and Gareth Owen laughed at each other and just had a cwtch Tavis Knoyle binned. Nasty injury on Scarlets no.6. He's up though, so hopefully he's all right.

"You take another step and your stepping off, is that clear!?"

Classic Nigel Owens reffing.

I love Nigel Owens, not in a homosexual sense, but he is the best ref around, even if I wasn't terribly pleased with his performance in the Ulster vs Saints match.

Can't beat a bit of Nige. He won't be popular with Scarlets fans again because he's binned two of their players today.

Oh what a try from Captain Kahn!!

32-3

Conversion missed, but...we can still have a WBP...

Yeh Kahn Fotauli'i who Ospryes fans wanted Rhys Webb to start ahead of earlier in the season. I suppose they'll get their wish if Kahn is at Toulouse next season.

Oh boo...R-Jo knocks the ball forward just as he's approaching the line. He could've got another try there. Shame. Good run from Beck and a pass from Jones set that up nicely for him. He had a big smile on his face anyway, which is good to see...players enjoying their rugby.

Dodger - to be fair, Fotuali'i was very poor when he first arrived in Ospreylia, but he's overtaken Webb at the moment for sure.

Uh-oh Thomas (Scarlets 10) is binned for kicking his legs up at Webb who was trying to get the ball out.

Come on O's stop giving away silly penalties...you're two men up you should be scoring a WBP try!

Cari wrote:Dodger - to be fair, Fotuali'i was very poor when he first arrived in Ospreylia, but he's overtaken Webb at the moment for sure.

Just a bit

Danger for the O's now...Scarlets are still pushing for a try at the five metre line, they're not giving up. O's scrum now.

Kahn Fotuali'i is MOTM again...he's got a habit of doing that lately

Tempers freying again now...I love the way Nige just stands aside and lets them get on with it.

McCusker off on a red!

Scarlets are doing their best to have half the team sent off

Two straight reds and finishing the game with 12 men, ouch.

OMG! Red card number 2 deservedly given to Gareth Owen for deliberately taking a player out in the air.

FT 32-3. Jebus, where was the Scarlets discipline?!

Chuffed for the O's though. Well done boys.

I don't think I have ever seen a team get so many cards in one game - although most happened when the game was over.

The Ospreys should be gutted they didn't get a TBP, especially since they had a chance to play against 12 men at the end.

Still, Bevington, Tipuric, Fotuali and Biggar were excellent and James King did very well as well.

Hibbard, A.Jones, I.Evans (if he recovers), Ryan Jones, Tipuric and Biggar should all start for Wales in the 6Ns. with King and Bevington given a chance of a bench spot.

Great game. I said near the start of the thread that I expected another cr*p, skill less, error strewn derby, based mainly on the way a number of derbies have gone lately. So often these christmas derbies are subject to the elements. One thing I forgot was that they were playing at the liberty. What a contrast the two games today were: mud and gore in Cardiff and a beautiful game in Swansea, 40 miles away, both with similar weather conditions. The difference? A semi-synthetic pitch at the Liberty! Those saying the MS should not consider a synthetic pitch need to take note!

The Liberty has under soil heating too which helped. Though I do agree that synthetic grass is the way forward.

Griff wrote:Great game. I said near the start of the thread that I expected another cr*p, skill less, error strewn derby, based mainly on the way a number of derbies have gone lately. So often these christmas derbies are subject to the elements. One thing I forgot was that they were playing at the liberty. What a contrast the two games today were: mud and gore in Cardiff and a beautiful game in Swansea, 40 miles away, both with similar weather conditions. The difference? A semi-synthetic pitch at the Liberty! Those saying the MS should not consider a synthetic pitch need to take note!

I have a theory that derbies are crap this year, that involve Cardiff. The later game was head and shoulders above ours. The pitch helped (under soil etc), but there was a top ref for the Ospreys game and a developing (and rubbish) ref for the Cardiff one.

Great night at the liberty marred by Nigel Owens red cards which were unnecessary.

Scarlets got a hiding in the scrum and Tipuric won the flour. Haven't a clue why the Scarlets picked who they did at halfback. Their inexperience showed.

Happy the rain didnt ruin the pitch and game as happened earlier.

I didn't see the game (familly Boxing Day get-together). But it would be interesting to see what the Scarlets supporters thought of the game and in particular Nigel Owens, who has been praised on this thread for his handling of the game.

The game earlier in the season was inflenced by a very poor refereeing (and Video Ref) performance. Has Nigel redeemed himself and performed well at a west Wales derby?

Nigel was good.

The only thing I would question was the second red card - but that was called as deliberate by the touch judge, and after that he had no choice really - I thought it was a penalty or YC, not red.

TO be honest the Ospreys deserved to win, and IMO must be miffed that they didn't pick up a bonus point win.

However I did notice from early on that the Ospreys semed to be rather 'cute' where they were placing their feet at the rucks, as tehy were not stamping as such, more like placing their foot on a body part and tehn shifting their body weight onto that foot. I think that early in the first half Adam Jones boot came down near the the shoulder/head area of George Earle. Then Duncan Jones stood on McCusker's knee, and Aled Thomas was carded for kicking out (being a bit silly) after Webb was giving Aled's ankles a bit of a shoeing. I do believe that McCusker's stamping was a result of the 'cute' footwork of the Ospreys forwards.

As for the cards Earle was a yellow (although I have seen then not given), and rightly so. He deliberately stopped Kahn from less than 10cm let alone 10m.

I am not too sure about Tavis Knoyle's yellow card, it was a bit of an early challenge, and I think that by the time of this card Nige was getting annoyed with the niggly stuff, and maybe Tav waqs dealt with in order to try and stop any more silly stuff.

Aled Thomas was silly, as I said he was on the receiving end of some shoe work on his ankles from Webb, but Aled was on the wrong side. However kicking out, and then punching the ball from Webb's hands was very foolish.

Rob McCusker's card was deserved, however I fully understand why he did it. If he thought that the fancy footwork on himself and team mates at the rucks was being ignored. However Rob does have a tendancy to see oposition being allowed to get away with slight infringements and go over the top in relatiation.

As for the last card that was a joke. Even Dan Biggar said that it was accidental to Nige but the linesman said otherwise, and I think then it was a case of the player having to be carded. And seeing as Nige had said any more dirty play and it will be red, he had to stick to his guns and use the red.

Personally I am very miffed as I do think that if the 'cute' footwork at the rucks had been dealt with the Scarlets would probably only have recieved two yellow cards, and the Ospreys may well have recieved on themselves. And I did not post yesterday as I don't think i could have worded things as polite. However the Opsreys deserved the full 5pts for this came.

(It will be interesting to see what the outcome of this match is with regards to bans for red cards, and if the Adam Jones incident was picked up by the citing pannel).

Aled Thomas wasnt binned for kicking out, he knocked the ball on clumsily from Webb's hands after he got up, 5 meters out, a deliberate knock on is a straight yellow.

IronMike wrote:Aled Thomas wasnt binned for kicking out, he knocked the ball on clumsily from Webb's hands after he got up, 5 meters out, a deliberate knock on is a straight yellow.

Thats what I said.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Aled Thomas was silly, as I said he was on the receiving end of some shoe work on his ankles from Webb, but Aled was on the wrong side. However kicking out, and then punching the ball from Webb's hands was very foolish.

Does it matter? We took the Ospreys on up front - FAIL!

Glas a du wrote:Does it matter? We took failed to take on the Ospreys on up front - FAIL!

Fixed

What? In the first half our forwards were carrying the ball up and being pushed back in the tackle time after time. It was game over then! With an inferior pack you have to play a little more cleverly.

Glas - i meant we attempted to take them on. But in order to claim to have taken their forwards on we would have had to have done a far better job.

Ah fair enough, the attempt was ill conceived AND poorly executed. The Ospreys were up for this one big time and our response was limp.

wales606 wrote:Nigel was good.

The only thing I would question was the second red card - but that was called as deliberate by the touch judge, and after that he had no choice really - I thought it was a penalty or YC, not red.

He was 80% good. He missed some glaring issues and over reacted on others.

Aled THomas was being held in a ruck by Ryan Jones right arm, he couldn't role away for love nor money. Right in front of Nigel and he didn't see it, got it wrong and yellow carded for it. THe two sendings off in the last two minutes were pointless acts.

Far too often when their is an issue of unlawful behaviour, scrapping and such like, a referee lacks empathy with the situation that he is predominantly in control of.

Yesterday far too often Owens was far to laissez-faire, too complacent with no eventual objective.

Owens is one of the best referees in the World, that says a lot for how poor the adjudication of the game is.

I have 2 issues with last nights game as a Scarlet fan. Firstly I believe the lack of experience throughout the coaching team is starting to show quite seriously in the way the team are performing and secondly I dont believe Nigel Owens should be allowed anywhere near a Scarlets game of any nature as he seems incappable of controling the games impartially, he massively over compensates for been local and gives nothing to the Scarlets in the way of protection from foul play or 50/50 decisions.
The coaching issue though is by far the most worrying, we started the season well on a combination of what ND left behind organisationaly and what Easterby bought to the team in terms of passion, as Nigels organisation wears off we are left with a team that is willing to fight but is not able to think. No gameplan will equal more heavy defeats.

Have to agree with that. You can't play like Leinster without Leinster's pack.

I dont think the scarlets can blame their coaches. The players no what to do but just were not getting to it.

The choice of starting halfbacks, third choice scrum half and Aled Thomas, who has never been RP12 level was a joke against Khan and Biggar who are in good form.

What ball the Scarlets got they wasted to much of.

That said i have no idea why the ospreys keep picking Fussell. He is absolute rubbish.

The Scarlets got completely out muscled up front, the Hibbard, Bevington, King, Jones and Tipuric gave the O's complete dominance at the breakdown and in contact.

The fact that the Scarlets halfbacks were so outplayed (I don't think there is a more on form halfback partnership in Europe at the moment) just made matter worse and led to the large scoreline.

Can't believe they didn't get a fourth try against 12 men - kick it away

I'm quite happy that they didn't get a BP. 3rd to 6th in the league is covered by 2 points.
When Leinster get their full squad back (looking good for January) the race for 2nd place should be easier after the Scarlets visit Ravenhill.

Oh yeah. It would be good if the Os could give the Tigers a bit of a kicking too. Keep our outside chance of a HC QF alive.

Os playing well in fairness. Back from their own injury crisis.

The team responsible for 75% of our defeats in all comps last year.

It'd be the Scarlets all over to pinch a tight game in Ravers.

Does anybody know why gareth davies and tavis knoyle are being overlooked for aled davies, who at this moment is clearly an inferior scrum half.

Also, the biggest scandal in welsh rugby must be the lack of opportunities adam warren is being given at center. Each time he has played for the scarlets, he has looked a class above. Both Leinster and Gloucester want his signature.

I'm starting to lose faith in Easterby. He has too many favourites in the squad.

maestegmafia wrote:I dont think the scarlets can blame their coaches. The players no what to do but just were not getting to it.

The choice of starting halfbacks, third choice scrum half and Aled Thomas, who has never been RP12 level was a joke against Khan and Biggar who are in good form.

What ball the Scarlets got they wasted to much of.

That said i have no idea why the ospreys keep picking Fussell. He is absolute rubbish.

I guess it comes down to the fact at scrum half our options were Aled Davies, Gareth Davies, Tavis Knoyle or Rhodri Williams. Of the four of them I would say that Aled Davies is the least likely to be dragged into a physical/nasty tussle with the opposition. And to be fair he managed to keep himself on the pitch, which is something Knoyle failed to do.

At fly half we have lost Priestland. So our options are down to Aled Thomas, Dan Newton or Gareth Owen. Seeing as Aled has been dependable, although not exciting, this season and the other two have barely had any game time. It was the logical decision.

Scrumdown wrote:Does anybody know why gareth davies and tavis knoyle are being overlooked for aled davies, who at this moment is clearly an inferior scrum half.

Also, the biggest scandal in welsh rugby must be the lack of opportunities adam warren is being given at center. Each time he has played for the scarlets, he has looked a class above. Both Leinster and Gloucester want his signature.

I'm starting to lose faith in Easterby. He has too many favourites in the squad.

I guess it could have something to do with Foxy and Scott Williams being regulars in the welsh squad, and Gareth Maule being exceptionally dependable (and also able to bring some level headedness). I would like to see Warren get a run out sometime, and to be honest I think that will come during the 6Ns.

I dont think centre is where the Scarlets are having problems, Warren is a very good player but Scott and JD2 are fantastic.

A fit Rhys Priestland and a bit more scrum practice would do the Scarlets no end of good.

If he cant stay at the Scarlets for lack of game time then they should be smart at the Dragons and get him in there... He and Adam Hughes would be deadly.

Fantastic individually, but not together. Far too similar. I was talking to Dreamer the other day who had been to a 16th man meeting with Easterby. When asked why Williams and Davies didn't pass more his response was that passing wasn't their strong point and they wanted a game plan to play to the players strengths.

Which is when I lost all faith...

Glas a du wrote:Fantastic individually, but not together. Far too similar. I was talking to Dreamer the other day who had been to a 16th man meeting with Easterby. When asked why Williams and Davies didn't pass more his response was that passing wasn't their strong point and they wanted a game plan to play to the players strengths.

Which is when I lost all faith...

Yeah I believe Mark said something along the lines of we are designing back plays around the strengths of our backs, and we no longer have a silky centre like Reggie anymore so we are having to adapt the back line moves to suit the skill set of Foxy and Scott.

That said one of the problems we had in the game on boxind day was that Scott was looking to put the flick off load in, and it was not working. So possibly there is something to playing to your strenghts.

A professional rugby player has a duty to work on his weaknesses. Passing ability is a basic requirement in international backs. Wrapping players up in cotton wool, amending the game plan to them is bonkers, sorry.

And we lost in the Liberty due to the fact that our front five has been neglected for over a decade.

I am not suggesting that we stop playing running rugby in the backs and just go down a battering ram route, but at the same time until a player is able to play that style of rugby it is stupidity to expect them to do it. Scott and Jon are both good offloaders of the ball when the rest of the team are also up for it, however they are also very good at crash ball and cutting lines. So if the game/conditions are not right for risky high tempo tactics then utilising them as the lumps they are is not a bad thing.

OUr pack is not overly weak, they have a bad reputation, and do come unstuck against strong packs, and also against streetwise packs. This is something we seem to be working on, but to be honest I think until we start to build a reputation as a team with a strong tight five, no matter who we feild in our pack (even if they were technically the same as Adam Jones and Co.) we would probably miss out on the 50-50 calls due to rep.

It wasn't just the front 5 that cost us the game. The lack of a proper 7 is a real problem. I also felt that the Scarlets were just not up for the game. The Ospreys were just more up for it, which is a worry, if you can't be up for a game against your local rival in front of 20k then there is a real problem.

On top of that, a few of the boys seemed to have brain farts during the game. We were only going to win this game if we were up for it and played well. We weren't up for it and played below par.

A weak front five drains all of the rest. The motivation point is a good one. What else are coaches for?