Dragons vs Ospreys

First topic message reminder :

Venue: Rodney Parade
Date: Monday, 31 December, 2012
Kick-off: 16:15 GMT

Coverage: Live on S4C, BBC Radio Wales, online & Radio Cymru

Dragons
Hallam Amos, Will Harries, Pat Leach, Andy Tuilagi, Tom Prydie, Lewis Robling, Jonathan Evans; Phil Price, Sam Parry, Dan Way, Andrew Coombs, Rob Sidoli, Lewis Evans © Nic Cudd, Toby Faletau.

Replacements:
Hugh Gustafson, Owen Evans, Nathan Buck, Adam Jones, Tom Brown, Wayne Evans, Steffan Jones, Jack Dixon


Ospreys
15 Richard Fussell 14 Ross Jones 13 Tom Isaacs 12 Andrew Bishop 11 Eli Walker 10 Dan Biggar 9 Kahn Fotuali'i (Capt) 1 Ryan Bevington 2 Richard Hibbard 3 Adam Jones 4 Lloyd Peers 5 James King 6 Ryan Jones 7 Sam Lewis 8 Joe Bearman

Replacements:
16 Scott Baldwin 17 Duncan Jones 18 Cai Griffiths 19 Jonathan Thomas 20 Morgan Allen 21 Tom Habberfield 22 Matthew Morgan 23 Ashley Beck

How many times were the Dragons charged down, the FB looks a good player for the Dragons and the team tackled very well. Harries helped Walker by lifting his legs, I thought he must be in touch. Toby had a mixed game, he keep dropping the ball and spilling the ball when tackled but shows good pace. R Jones deserved MOTM he stood out in difficult conditions for everyone. The game could have been closer as both tries were preventable but the better team won.

The pitch stood up well considering the weather but it was a mess after the game for the next football match.

Happy new year everyone.

Robling had to get taken off after two charge downs. Poor decision by Edwards. I would give the Ospreys a ten point win or so, but what was the kicking tactic anyway?

Way too much kicking in the second half. This wasn't a great Ospreys side but we kept kicking infield to them and Biggar kept pinning us back. Frustrating isn't the word.

Ospreays played the conditions very well. We struggled to get out of our own half especially in the second 40.

I'd of brought Steffan on at 3-7 and in still shocked he wasn't brought on at all!!
Toby, Lewis and Sid stood out in the pack for me. Amos at 15 looks good but isn't he a centre? He was loosing the kicking battle.

Biggar dominated the game with excellent tactical kicking. It was a case of ping us back because we can't create anything and we can capitalise on mistakes.

Well after the start I thought it was goign to be a long afternoon, we had loads of territory in first half but fair play Os defence was spot on.

A few things with my Welsh specs on:

Some have been championing Bevingtons cause but didn't see what fuss was about yesterday, Hibbard on the other hand (and never been his biggest fan) has to start likewise Biggar.

I would like to see Walker get some squad experience at least and in place of Robinson.

Faletau seems to be finding some form again

bedford

Just want to make the point that the only reason Falatau is starting to look good is that Shanks is covering all his ground, dropping deep for kicks, hitting the rucks as 1st, 2nd man, carrying in the tight and even playing passes.

The first 20 minutes of that game needs to be watched by every potential back rower in wales, it was near the complete performance from Evans, he managed everything a backrower should, carried tight and loose, made a few passes and an offload, cleared a few rucks, stole a ball, won a penalty, took a bomb well then played it to 15 and supported, chased a kick, made all his tackles in the tight and further out and was just everywhere!!!!

Falataus responsibilities are minimalised at present, he spend lots more time on the floor and defending narrower channells around the ruck, but then pops up in the wider channells and looks great for carrying effectively. IMHO Falatau's breakdown work is still way too weak, and he's a luxury a team with a strong tight 5 could afford.

If the Ospreys had won playing the kind of rugby they played in beating the Scarlets, then fair enough; but apart from the opening try (which I couldn't see because it was right in the corner), they barely created any more than we did. Yes, it was enough, but we never really had a proper go at them. We made some decent ground through the forwards, but the ball never got any wider than Tuilagi - and even he kicked! Eli Walker and Ross Jones aren't exactly defensive giants, but we never tested them.

My point is that we didn't throw everything we had at them. That's unforgivable, especially at home.

LP

In their defence their strike plays were proving ineffective and were very narrow because of the conditions, there were a number of positions and chances to go wide but the patterns before them never worked out.

There was one opportunity in the O's 22, the lineout went well 5 out, back row had created a pod 5 metres in and created great quick ball, 3rd phase hit Tuilagi on the narrow crash, the Dragons had worked a great 5 on 3 on the openside but Tuilagi had lost the ball on the floor and the strike package had failed, but trust me it was a very well planned play, tied all forwards in, and commited Bishop and Biggar, and if I'm not mistaken Fussell was on the floor too, leaving Walker, Issacs and a rushing Ross to cover a near full Dragons backline... pity though.

Blues,

I agree and I have always liked Evans and hope he gets another chance in Welsh set up after all its what Lydiate has been doing for us and Wales and why he was sorely missed int he Autumn.

Problem Evans has is he tends to be a complete allrounder but doesn't excell enough in one area.

IMHO we need to start looking at players like this, players such as Warbs, Powell, Lydiate and Falatau have too many weaknesses and tend to go through peaks and troughs, whereas I have no doubt if Evans is given the chance, and a real chance he will prove very usefull in the welsh squad.

Like I said, rewatch the first 20 mins again... wow!

bedfordwelsh wrote:

Some have been championing Bevingtons cause but didn't see what fuss was about yesterday, Hibbard on the other hand (and never been his biggest fan) has to start likewise Biggar.

I would like to see Walker get some squad experience at least and in place of Robinson.

Faletau seems to be finding some form again

Yeah he's been championed for a while. I'm not sure how he has got Wales caps. But since he came back to the Ospreys after the autumn he has been playing quite well. He's certainly no Healy though. Hibbard is a very good player. There are a few wingers from both teams that are better than Robinson.

I'm better than Robinson

And me.

I was feeling pretty positive before the game. So much so that I took the 5/2 that the bookies offered on a Dragons win. Despite losing an early try, the Dragons controlled the next 20, but only came away with 3 points. There were some strange decisions made, like not kicking kicksble penalties when you should've taking the points considering the conditions. The Ospreys completely bossed the 2nd half and their try came from the relentless pressure they put on the Dragons.
The Ospreys at Rodney Parade is my favourite game to attend. We've had some great wins over them, but the faithful didn't have an awful lot to cheer and were very quiet indeed. 7,000 for a holiday derby, not sure we'll get much over 5,000 between now and the end of the season and if Tony Brown is expecting 50,000 for the Easter double-header at the stadium, he's going to be massively disappointed.
The Ospreys had the power in the pack and the intelligence behind to come away with a comfortable win. The Dragons lacked experience at half-back and although I rate Johnny Evans, why can't he give Robling a pass that isn't around his ankles. His distribution was poor and put the young fly-half under imense pressure.
On a side note, dear me, Adam Jones has had the mother of all Christmases. I wouldn't want to be picking up his food shopping bill!

thebluesmancometh wrote:Problem Evans has is he tends to be a complete allrounder but doesn't excell enough in one area.

IMHO we need to start looking at players like this, players such as Warbs, Powell, Lydiate and Falatau have too many weaknesses and tend to go through peaks and troughs, whereas I have no doubt if Evans is given the chance, and a real chance he will prove very usefull in the welsh squad.

Like I said, rewatch the first 20 mins again... wow!

Bues,

Does Lydiate have 'many' weaknesses?

bedfordwelsh wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:Problem Evans has is he tends to be a complete allrounder but doesn't excell enough in one area.

IMHO we need to start looking at players like this, players such as Warbs, Powell, Lydiate and Falatau have too many weaknesses and tend to go through peaks and troughs, whereas I have no doubt if Evans is given the chance, and a real chance he will prove very usefull in the welsh squad.

Like I said, rewatch the first 20 mins again... wow!

Bues,

Does Lydiate have 'many' weaknesses?

Well Beds mate, I have to say:-

1. His kicking from hand is not world class. On a bad day it's pretty awful

2. He isn't as quick as Linford Christie

3. I have never seen him attempt a drop goal and I can only imagine that is because he lacks confidence kicking at goal, likewise from the tee...


Does have a very nice sidestep though...!

Best wishes to you and yours for 2013 mate..

bedford

For all Lydiates strengths he proves time and time again small and ineffective in the tight, compare him to the likes of Ferris, Higgintbotham, Bonnaire and even Ryan Jones and he isn't anywhere near as usefull in an arm wrestle.

He also has the tendancy to focus on his 'role' and little else, he offers little at the breakdown defencively and not much more going forward.

His carrying has also all but ceased since he made his appearance on the int stage, before that he was being hailed the welsh samoan or something of that type, but that seemed to come from playing at a lower level.

His ball carrying has improved IMO but isn't it all about picking the correct combination.

There are very few players who have the complete all round game and you pick players that compliment each other.

When R Jones was playing at 8 he was having to do it all due to the poor standard of his 6s & 8s.

When Lydiate Faletau and Warburton were all firing and on form then they complimented each other so well all doing their 'bit' allowed the others to comcentrate on their game.

Lydiate wasn't picked for his ball carrying he was picked for his defensive work and I think that was proved by his absence in the AIs

bedfordwelsh wrote:His ball carrying has improved IMO but isn't it all about picking the correct combination.

There are very few players who have the complete all round game and you pick players that compliment each other.

When R Jones was playing at 8 he was having to do it all due to the poor standard of his 6s & 8s.

When Lydiate Faletau and Warburton were all firing and on form then they complimented each other so well all doing their 'bit' allowed the others to comcentrate on their game.

Lydiate wasn't picked for his ball carrying he was picked for his defensive work and I think that was proved by his absence in the AIs

Lydiate gets his fair share of turn overs... Looking forward to seeing him back soon. Apparently he will make the Six Nations.

Blues, you do realise this is Gatlandball we're talking about here. He's hardly the only player in the squad made to look a one trick pony by the slavish observance to Plan A, is he?

Lydiate is a craking player but i would say one of his weakness is his tackles are too one dimensionnal, i have never seen him doing choke tackles (a la Ferris) to brought the opposition back and to force a maul. But mind you if he has Warburton near him ready for the turnover his tackling style is just perfect.

His ball carrying is good but could be better (again if you compare to a beast like Ferris).

By the way i wonder how Dragons fans feel, as soon as he will be fit he will be right in the Welsh team, i guess that's the reason they let him go.

Lydiate's worth his weight in gold. What is he, 23? He's so destructive and does everything asked of him. The back-row positions have different roles and you need a good balance. If the individuals do their specific jobs then you have a recipe for success. Form comes and goes, obviously. When you think he's kept Ryan Jones out after his good season last year and when you think we've had the likes of Andy Powell and Johnsthon anonymous playing 6 in the past. If he can get back to his best and stay clear of injuries he'll win a huge amount of caps. The man is an absolute beast!

manofgwent wrote:Lydiate's worth his weight in gold. What is he, 23? He's so destructive and does everything asked of him. The back-row positions have different roles and you need a good balance. If the individuals do their specific jobs then you have a recipe for success. Form comes and goes, obviously. When you think he's kept Ryan Jones out after his good season last year and when you think we've had the likes of Andy Powell and Johnsthon anonymous playing 6 in the past. If he can get back to his best and stay clear of injuries he'll win a huge amount of caps. The man is an absolute beast!

I dont think many would disagree with that.

By the way he is now 25.

I'm not slating Lydiate, he's a cracking player! But when you line him, Warbs and Falatau up what is the striking difference between that combo and many others? They are all small!

Lydiates defence is impeccable, and is designed to chop the guy early and allow Warbs a crack at the ball, but he does often concede the game line, and can be outmuscled. Plus his ruck work going forward and defencively isn't particularly impressive.

I can pick holes in Warbs too if anyone would like.

My point was there is no back row in wales at present who can match Lewis Evans in every attribute, some outshine him in some, but noone can claim to be as well rounded!!

manofgwent wrote:I was feeling pretty positive before the game. So much so that I took the 5/2 that the bookies offered on a Dragons win. Despite losing an early try, the Dragons controlled the next 20, but only came away with 3 points. There were some strange decisions made, like not kicking kicksble penalties when you should've taking the points considering the conditions. The Ospreys completely bossed the 2nd half and their try came from the relentless pressure they put on the Dragons.
The Ospreys at Rodney Parade is my favourite game to attend. We've had some great wins over them, but the faithful didn't have an awful lot to cheer and were very quiet indeed. 7,000 for a holiday derby, not sure we'll get much over 5,000 between now and the end of the season and if Tony Brown is expecting 50,000 for the Easter double-header at the stadium, he's going to be massively disappointed.
The Ospreys had the power in the pack and the intelligence behind to come away with a comfortable win. The Dragons lacked experience at half-back and although I rate Johnny Evans, why can't he give Robling a pass that isn't around his ankles. His distribution was poor and put the young fly-half under imense pressure.
On a side note, dear me, Adam Jones has had the mother of all Christmases. I wouldn't want to be picking up his food shopping bill!

Man:

I think this is a fair reflection of the game, there were lots of positives for both teams such as the young players on both sides and the much improved Dragons scrum, when Adam went off the Dragons got on top. I wish the Dragons put that effort in against the non Welsh teams they would win a lot more games. The Dragons were dead unlucky against the Blues.

Alun

They certainly were not unlucky, they were very poor! As were the Blues, it's just the Blues were a tiny bit less poor than the Dragons...

That game wasn't professional in any way, dire!!!

I've said on here that the Blues are an awful team, it's just that the Dragons are slightly worse, but on Boxing day, the Dragons did everything but win that game. They battered the Blues for the majority of the match and would have won was it not for the dullest penalty ever conceded. How worrying was the Blues shambolic line-out given that Bradley Davies and Lou Reed could be starting for Wales in 4 weeks time? Having said that, the Dragons then let themselves down against the Ospreys!
On Lewis Evans. He alright. He's only Dragons captain because he's a certainty to be available as he's not going to be involved with Wales. He's an out and out 6 and he's obviously benefiting from Lydiate being out. He's not a 7, even if Sean (how's he got a tv gig) Holley says so. Evans is prone to mistakes, some of which have cost the Dragons matches and he's too inexperienced to be our captain. He's not a great leader. He'll be a good servant to the Dragons, like an Ashley smith. Good club player, but that's all.

thebluesmancometh wrote:Alun

They certainly were not unlucky, they were very poor! As were the Blues, it's just the Blues were a tiny bit less poor than the Dragons...

That game wasn't professional in any way, dire!!!

That was your fault for having such an abysmal pitch.

MOG

Have to disagree, if not being considered for Wales was a pre requisite for captain the whole tight 5 and backling (-Prydie) could be considered!!

He is certainly not an out and out 6, he has too much about him to be considered out and out anything, he's a complete back rower, and that may be part of his problme. (PS the one mistake your referring to was just that, 1 mistake, but then it's easy to focus on 1 mistake not tapping the ball down early enough over your own try line, I mean it's not like any very good players would do that, especially to lose in the HC final. But 2 weeks before the mistake he had a MOTM performance v Perp!!

And regarding his leadership, your right he is inexperienced, but is def a natural leader, if you get a chance to spend time with the first team and watch their training you'll see every player who looks to him for numerous reasons, he has brought in a few differing training techs and hydration methods himself, and constantly helps the team (esp when a number of the boys can be very childish)

Glas

Well Rodney was far better yet the performances from either team weren't much better, I wasn't having a pop at the Dragons but every region, not one of them looked particularly professional over xmas/new year, let alone good!!

I thought the Dragons v Blues was a good old fashioned slug fest in the muck. The Dragons should have gone for the posts at every opportunity and could well have pinched it.

Not to mention the two (or was it three?) kicks at goal we missed in the first half. The Blues were there for the taking.

I don't want to talk about it any more.

You can't really claim the blues were there for the taking because they have been comprehensively taken by all and sunder, well except the Dragons.

It's odd, it doesn't matter how low the Blues sink the Dragons seem to be able to lower themselve to below it.

I can claim the Blues were there for the taking, because any one of our missed penalties, or the late drop goal, would have won us the game.

Just because we didn't take the Blues doesn't mean they weren't there to be taken. Our inability to do so doesn't change that fact.

Thebluesman talks like he knows what's going on but he's clearly an idiot.

Firstly, Evans has made quite a few costly errors for the Dragons not just one. Secondly lydaite certainly doesn't concede "gain line" is negative/positive tackle raio is one of the highest in the squad.

There to be taken though gives the impression that an upset was a distinct possibility, IMO there was no upset to be had, the Dragons shouldve won by being the better team.

Young

I pity you, if you can't discuss the issue don't get involved, petty insults will hardly cement your argument, which is?

The Blues were there to be taken but the floppy cockles county see it home. It's true.

Bluesman. Evans is a 6. Never been up to much at openside. He also threw away the Munster game with an awful pass that got intercepted. I think he's been given the captaincy because he'll play pretty much every game. Our front 3 are very young and inexperienced. In Rhe 2nd row we have Sid and Adam Jones, but they get rotated as they're so old. With Lydiate and Toby away with Wales, he was the only real option. The half backs are young and Evans has been around the region since he came through. I do know of one player who couldn't believe he was given the captaincy! And to top it all, Darren Edwards has given Evans his backing to get a welsh call-up. If not for the 6 nations then the summer tour. Fair play to Edwards, he talks some tripe!