v2 G.O.A.T Round 1 Group 1

First topic message reminder :

Today see's the first group of the competition with participants from Darts, Rugby, Snooker and American Football.

Three out of today’s four competitors have been championed by forum members (please see the below articles)

Please vote for the competitor you believe has achieved the most in sport and should be progress into the next round.

The winner and runner up will make it into round 2

Please leave a comment as to why you voted

Phil Taylor- Darts- Championed by CJB
Phil Taylor is the character that has transcended Darts. After taking up darts at 26, Taylor would win his first professional title in two years and by 1992 was a two-time BDO world champion. However, darts would be changed irrevocably in 1993 when a rival organisation – the PDC - led by 16 leading players was created.

Taylor would lose the first PDC World Championship final against Dennis Priestly in 1994 but losing in this championship would be a rarity for Phil. He would win 44 consecutive games, with eight titles including a 107.46 average in the 2001 final against John Part. 2002 was one of the high points of Phil’s career winning the four majors and the first televised nine darter in the PDC.

Phil would overcome a minor blip in the 2003 final to go and win three consecutive world championships. This would lead to the 2007 world championship final between Raymond Van Barneveld, four-time BDO champion, and Phil. This would go on to be labelled as the greatest match ever. Taylor would win the first eight legs and take a 3-0 lead in sets. He would bring it back to 5-3 before winning 3 consecutive sets. Taylor would win the next set to take it into a deciding set. The deciding set would go into a nerve-wracking deciding leg with Taylor losing in the greatest game ever.

The Power, as he is affectionately nicknamed, would win both the 2009 and 2010 world championships, with normal service resumed. 2009 was another vintage Phil year, winning 10 of the 12 major tournaments. Approaching 50, Taylor would lose in the 2011 + 2012 world championships despite his 11 majors spread out with these two years. With reports of his waning powers, Taylor would go on to claim his 16th world title beating the new kid on the block, Michael Van Gerwen in a stunning final on New Years Day.

The world title would be the 194th title of his illustrious career with 74 major wins. Not only is he the most successful player in terms of career titles but is also credited with the most televised 9-dart finishes, the perfect leg. He has achieved this nine times including twice in one game, a feat still unmatched, with only 34 ever hit. His dominance of the game is also shown by his amazing 3-dart averages. In 2010, Taylor would record the highest televised average ever with 118.66 and has thrown a televised average over 105 an incredible 117 times compared to just 78 from all other players.

So whilst the merits of Taylor as a ‘sportsman’ alongside the likes of Woods, Bradman and Federer may be debatable in your eyes, Taylor is a deserved recipient of this award, with his wins and consistent domination not equalled in any other sporting arena.

Ronnie O'Sullivan- Snooker- Championed by The Special Juan
Few sporting competitors can be described as the most “naturally talented” player ever to play their sport but that is exactly what Ronnie O’Sullivan is. Although he has had his fair share of controversies in the past (failed drug tests, leaving matches early), he has amazed crowds and bamboozled opponents with dazzling play, making him statistically the third most successful snooker player of all time (behind the behemoths of the sport Stephen Hendry and Steve Davis) and a real fan favourite.

The talent O’Sullivan possesses was evident from a young age. At just ten years old he made a break of 117, aged twelve he made a break of 142 and aged fifteen he made the magical maximum of 147.

After turning professional in 1992, he won his first 38 competitive matches (a record) and in only his second season on tour, he won snooker’s second most prestigious prize, the UK Championship, beating both Davis (9-6) and Hendry (10-6 in the final) on the way to the title. This made him the youngest ever winner of the tournament aged just seventeen.

Arguably one of the most memorable moments in snooker history came in the 1997 World Championship. O’Sullivan made the first of his current total of 11 maximum breaks in the first round however it took him only 5 minutes and 20 seconds to complete the break; a record which may never be broken.

O’Sullivan’s immense talent in the game has racked him up 24 ranking event titles (plus 11 other finals), including 4 World Championships, 4 UK Championships and 4 Masters titles. He is also one of only seven players to have won the World Championship, UK Championship and the Masters at least once.

Break building is the strongest part of O’Sullivan’s game and is what he has used to enthral crowds during his career. As mentioned, he has made a total of 11 maximum breaks and a total of 678 century breaks in his 20 years as a professional. One of his best and most memorable breaks occurred at the 2012 World Championship where he produced one of the greatest ever clearances to win the seventh frame against Ali Carter in the final (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UY15samN7t8). The balls were scattered about the table and the frame was heading for an extended safety battle until O’Sullivan came to the table and made and produced some vintage magic to win the frame.

The flair, talent, controversy, break building, safety play and overall speed around the table when in full flow makes O’Sullivan the current crowd favourite of the game, just like Alex ‘Hurricane’ Higgins and Jimmy ‘Whirlwind’ White were before him and Judd Trump will be after him. Whatever current event is on-going, you can be sure that Ronnie O’Sullivan will be the largest picture on the posters advertising the tournament. One of his most famous controversies occurred at the 1996 World Championship against Alain Robidoux. Although normally right-handed, O’Sullivan can play almost as well with his left-handed (making him the greatest ambidextrous player of all time). When he demonstrated this against Robidoux, his opponent accused him of disrespect. O’Sullivan replied by saying “he played better with his left hand than Robidoux could with his right”. O’Sullivan was summoned to a hearing where he had to prove he could play to a high standard with his left hand. He was pitted against Rex Williams (a former World Championship runner-up) for three frames and won them all.

A true measure of greatness is how an individual compares to his fellow sportsmen. John Higgins, another four time World Champion who turned professional around the same time, is arguably the only player who can compete with O’Sullivan on top form. This has led to many competitive matches between the two including the 2006 Masters Final which is widely acknowledged to be one of the best snooker matches of all time. The two have competed against each other 56 times, with Ronnie holding a winning 28-25 record against Higgins (there were 3 draws). O’Sullivan and two time World Champion Mark Williams have met 38 times with O’Sullivan again holding a winning record, this time 26-9 with three draws. An interesting fact is that Williams has not defeated O’Sullivan since 2002. O’Sullivan also has favourable records against Hendry (30-21) and Steve Davis (22-6).

Although the hair styles may have changed over the years and the controversies come and gone, O’Sullivan’s game has continued to amaze crowds worldwide for nearly 21 years now. Despite being on a self-imposed sabbatical from the game, it’s very unlikely that we have seen the last of Ronnie, especially as he has a world title to defend in a few months…"

Jerry Rice- American Football- Championed by Spaghetti-Hans
In a recent NFL search to find the greatest player their game has ever had, two separate polls – one from the fans, one from the authorities – reached the same conclusion. There has never been, and nor will there ever be, anyone better than Jerry Rice. We could list for you the records, his all-time highs in receiving yards, receptions, and career touchdowns (records not just held, but repossessed, unlikely to ever again be taken), but what matters more is the moments. And what moments there were...

How about his first Superbowl win in 1989, the San Francisco 49ers last gasp win versus the Bengals? The Rice Bowl as it will now forever be known was Rice’s first accent to immortality – an individual Superbowl record 11 passes for 215 yards, MVP, with a performance so good that George Bush Sr., sworn into office only 2 days before, made use of the White House phones for the first time to personally congratulate him on his display. Then again exactly one year later, Rice put to bed that saying so popular amongst old wives and superstitious sailors, that ‘Superbowl champions don’t repeat’. The 49ers were dominant; The Broncos were humiliated – 55-10 remains the most one-sided Superbowl victory in history. And with 3 more touchdowns, our man was the chef serving bronco rare. That San Francisco team has a strong claim to be called the finest in the sport’s history, and all great teams have a ringleader. Like Jordan for the Bulls, read Rice for the 49ers.

Like a man who picks up the phone before it rings, his relationship with his buddy, the great Joe Montana, was telepathic – Rice would run, and lo Rice would receive. Time and time again Rice would pick that pigskin from the air by the fingertips. Yet Rice was so much more than an outlet for a talented Quarterback – his positional awareness, precision timing, riot-shield blocking, and long, mazy, electrifying running with the ball made him unique. For a Wide Receiver he wasn’t particularly quick, but like a Messi or Maradona, the man could shimmy and shake his way through a brick wall.

The mid-90s were an undisputed golden age of NFL, and a Monday night in 1994 saw possibly its highlight. San Francisco versus L.A Raiders: The Battle of The Bay. Jerry Rice makes three touchdowns – and in the process overtakes first Ol’ Walter Payton, then the legendary American Everyman, Jim Brown, before finally setting a new all-time touchdown record. In the heated cauldron of one of the game’s great rivalries, all four sides of the stadium rose to acclaim their new champion. Even Raiders fans chanted the name of the Fog City Saint: Jerry. Jerry. Jerry.

You know you have attained greatness when grown men whisper stories about you round campfires, and at last orders in smoky bars. And there are more than a few tales about Jerry Rice. It was said that he learnt by catching bricks, that he gained his high-knees by leaping through the paddy fields under the Saigon moon, there are some 49er’s fans who swear they never saw him drop a catch. He did miss a catch (once, or maybe twice), but perhaps what they really meant was that he never missed a match. His record was outstanding, his legend durable, in 20 years he only missed ten matches. He floated like a feather, but was made from oak. In his final Superbowl victory, the Three-Peat of 1995 against The Chargers – he proved the difference maker once again with three more touchdowns – and he did it all while playing with a separated-frickin-shoulder. It's said that he wouldn't get into the ambulance until that ring was on his finger.

The man was simply a colossus, a giant who towers over every aspect of his sport. Will he win this prestigious tournament? We suspect not. NFL after all is not a sport that translates - its fragmented, stop-start gameplay, and off-field excess, its half-time shows and inch-wide winner's rings run counter to the simple spontaneous joy of other sports. It would take a brave voter indeed to champion an American Footballer over the tennis player, footballer, or heavy-weight boxer. But if a GOAT transcends his sport then this is surely what Jerry Rice did – he made a complicated sport easy: Run; Catch; Run; Win. A burst of lightning from The Bay.

Spaghetti-Hans wrote:

Union Cane wrote:

Diggers wrote:

Union Cane wrote:

My feelings exactly when I saw Hastings on the list.

Ignore him then, vote for one of the other three.

You've made your point about Hastings (several times over), and chances are he will probably be knocked out in the group stages anyway.

It is a great concept, and not inconsiderable effort has gone into it already, so let's get behind it rather than sniping and moaning, shall we?

It's not this Hastings (who on earth is he anyway?) chap's inclusion in itself that's damaging, but the fact that a potential sleeper athlete will likely have been excluded to accommodate him. If a Shaquille O'Neal or a Peyton Manning is omitted in favor of Hastings, then it becomes an issue. But as long as everyone who merits a place on the shortlist gets a spot, then we have no problem with this Hastings making up the numbers.

It was him or Nadal.

Voted for O'Sullivan.

Hastings does not belong on the list. Could name 20 better RU players right now and I don't really follow it!

Never heard of Rice so can't really vote for him

Taylor very good but a lot of those early PDC championships were not against a great standard field. No arguments with his more recent ones, and he clearly is the best Darts player ever, but I don't class him as great in the wider context.

O'Sullivan to me is the greatest Snooker player ever. I think people need to understand a bit about depression as to why he did not get as many titles as others. At his best, and there were significant periods of this, he was better than anyone has and probably will ever be.

Can't have snooker or darts in there. For one you can smoke whilst doing them, drink, eat food and wear dress shoes and trousers.
It's a bar-room game and belongs on Fred Truman's Indoor League.

Gone for Taylor, dominated his sport for years like very few ever have and american football is quite frankly a poor excuse of a sport.

I also went for Taylor, for domination and longevity.
I don't really know anything about Rice, so couldn't judge.
Comparitively, has O'Sullivan achieved anywhere near as much in his sport as Taylor has in his? Not for me.

Haha Phil Taylor and Gavin Hastings on the list, what a joke.

Gordy wrote:what a joke.

I know of an even bigger one.

Scott Hastings?? Martin Adams??

Multiple World champion (i am not big on darts, but 16 i believe) shows that whether you think darts is a sport or not tells you that he puts hour upon hour, day after day of training in.

Credit.

skyeman wrote:Multiple World champion (i am not big on darts, but 16 i believe) shows that whether you think darts is a sport or not tells you that he puts hour upon hour, day after day of training in.

Credit.

I think his belly is the biggest clue about the hours of training he puts in and where said training takes place but yep he is fantastic at the game of darts and has been the best for nearly two decades so credit indeed for that.

I love NFL (and would be very interested to read why Imperial Ghosty thinks it's a poor excuse for a sport) but don't consider Rice to be the MVP of all time so I'm not voting in this round.

I'm a rugby man Hibbz so find NFL to be a poor excuse of a contact sport.

Hibbz wrote:

skyeman wrote:Multiple World champion (i am not big on darts, but 16 i believe) shows that whether you think darts is a sport or not tells you that he puts hour upon hour, day after day of training in.

Credit.

I think his belly is the biggest clue about the hours of training he puts in and where said training takes place but yep he is fantastic at the game of darts and has been the best for nearly two decades so credit indeed for that.

I love NFL (and would be very interested to read why Imperial Ghosty thinks it's a poor excuse for a sport) but don't consider Rice to be the MVP of all time so I'm not voting in this round.

Well he his 50 odd and too many pork pies, but correct that a lot of the younger ones are shall we say portly But, training is training, just a different training.

And anyone? seen the the state of Razor's frame on CBB, my god. Diego, just a slip compared to him.

I am sure he puts in many hours each day to maintain performance level - training isn't necessarily exercise.

Sorry Shelsey, but the old phrase comes to mind.

Stating the ******** obvious.

If darts players are that fat, and many are, it's obvious they are spending more time eating than they are practicing.
No excuse for anyone, let alone someone who doesn't have a full time job to be in that hysterically awful shape.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:I'm a rugby man Hibbz so find NFL to be a poor excuse of a contact sport.

Someone once told me the difference between NFL and Rugby was that Rugby is a contact sport but NFL is a collision sport.

To each their own though and I'll agree NFL is not "new viewer friendly" it takes some real commitment to learn the rules and therefore the wonderfully subtle tactics and nuances.

You stick to your rugger where no one (least of all the players and referees) really understand the rules.

The old Channel 4 highlight programme was perfect for new viewers. One game plus the highlight package with the two tribe music was just about right. Now, watching a full game must turn newbies off.

super_realist wrote:If darts players are that fat, and many are, it's obvious they are spending more time eating than they are practicing.
No excuse for anyone, let alone someone who doesn't have a full time job to be in that hysterically awful shape.

Ha ha it used to crack me up when in darts previews they'd show some fat knacker on an exercise bike like it was part of their training regime. I'm not doubting Taylor's darting prowess or the fact that he must have spent hours practising just suggesting that much of that practice must have been spent drinking.

Stella wrote:The old Channel 4 highlight programme was perfect for new viewers. One game plus the highlight package with the two tribe music was just about right. Now, watching a full game must turn newbies off.

Not that I give a rats whether they attract new viewers or not but I think there is still such a show either on SKY, BBC or C4 aimed at explaining the rules.

Probably aimed at idiots mind you much like the snooker coverage that insists on explaining to people how to get screw back.

Never knew there were so many sporting snobs on V2.

FWIW, Jerry Rice by a mile in this round.

It's good to see that Jerry is winning this round with ease, but it's alarming to us that 43% of all voters so far have nominated O'Sullivan or Taylor instead.

The Super Bowl is the biggest thing in sports. We're talking about a guy who touched down a record 8 times in the Super Bowl on route to 3 rings. A guy who TD'd 3 times in a Super Bowl on 2 separate occasions.

We don't even need to detail all his other all-time high marks in various statistical fields.

Biggest thing in sports? Not a chance, the biggest thing in american yes but lets not try making out it's on a par with the world cup or the olympics because it simply isn't.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Biggest thing in sports? Not a chance, the biggest thing in american yes but lets not try making out it's on a par with the world cup or the olympics because it simply isn't.

Naturally we were referring to annual sports events.

At which point the champions league final is probably bigger.

right, have gone with Rice in the end, despite a few reservations. Taylor's misdeeds count too much against him for me...

a suggestion to MtotheC: could we allow vote cancellations from now on? I think if someone makes a strong case on the thread he could conceivably sway people who had rather rashly already cast their vote to his viewpoint.

Good call Mad, that's entirely possible. If there's a Gavin Hastings fan around he could turn it around!

Mad for Chelsea wrote:right, have gone with Rice in the end, despite a few reservations. Taylor's misdeeds count too much against him for me...

a suggestion to MtotheC: could we allow vote cancellations from now on? I think if someone makes a strong case on the thread he could conceivably sway people who had rather rashly already cast their vote to his viewpoint.

The Main Event Lads thank you for your accurately discriminating choice.

But why did you harbor any reservations? Those responsible at TME Headquarters put together an unbreakable and irrefutable case. Why did you consider taking your vote elsewhere?

Mad for Chelsea wrote:right, have gone with Rice in the end, despite a few reservations. Taylor's misdeeds count too much against him for me...

a suggestion to MtotheC: could we allow vote cancellations from now on? I think if someone makes a strong case on the thread he could conceivably sway people who had rather rashly already cast their vote to his viewpoint.

Will do MFC make sense

Imperial Ghosty wrote:At which point the champions league final is probably bigger.

The Super Bowl is still significantly bigger from a financial and marketing standpoint.

The viewership gap is narrowing and is now effectively level in terms of live television ratings, whereas only a decade ago Super Bowl ratings were massively higher. But in terms of name value and advertising dollars, the NFL showpiece remains 'The Greatest Show on Earth'.

Case in point - Didier Drogba realized that Chelsea's Champions League victory last May would soon be forgotten, perhaps even by the players themselves. There was so little glory in a Champions League winners medal, that he took a leaf out of the NFL's book and paid for individual Superbowl winners rings for each member of the Chelsea squad at a cost of £800k.

Yes in America, who outside of america gives a damm about the NFL?

It's a pathetic sport played and followed by those not man enough to play rugby.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Yes in America, who outside of america gives a damm about the NFL?

I give a damn, and plenty of fans do. They hold an annual game at Wembley, giving 80,000 overseas fans the chance to witness the great spectacle that is NFL football. You may not like it, but it IS popular. I joined my uni's American Football team for a week, before my liver collapsed from the heavy drinking you had to endure

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Yes in America, who outside of america gives a damm about the NFL?

It's a pathetic sport played and followed by those not man enough to play rugby.

Yet, as several before us have already pointed out, Jerry Rice would have made an outstanding rugby player.

Perhaps you think he's not 'man enough' like Rough and Tumble Gavin Hastings, but he's just trounced him in a poll on a British based website. And though your imperialistic leanings might not like it Ghosty, we're afraid you'll see a lot more stars of American-based sport make a big mark on this competition.

Don't think any of these candidates are the overall G.O.A.T. but, of the 4, only one is undoubtedly the greatest his sport has ever produced. Phil Taylor.
Why he's not walking this vote I'll never know.

Spaghetti-Hans wrote:
Yet, as several before us have already pointed out, Jerry Rice would have made an outstanding rugby player.

Would have. But can we judge this on potential to do things?

Taken from wiki:

In 1996, Hastings made an initially controversial decision to accept an invitation to switch to American football as a kicker with the Scottish Claymores of the WLAF. Hastings' brief spell in his new code was a poor one, even though the Claymores won that year's World Bowl at the home of Scottish Rugby, Murrayfield Stadium. Hastings missed 4 of his 27 extra point attempts, and missed his solitary field goal attempt.

Hastings won a World Bowl. I think World is better than Super.

Hastings should win this.

Spaghetti-Hans wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:At which point the champions league final is probably bigger.

The Super Bowl is still significantly bigger from a financial and marketing standpoint.

The viewership gap is narrowing and is now effectively level in terms of live television ratings, whereas only a decade ago Super Bowl ratings were massively higher. But in terms of name value and advertising dollars, the NFL showpiece remains 'The Greatest Show on Earth'.

Case in point - Didier Drogba realized that Chelsea's Champions League victory last May would soon be forgotten, perhaps even by the players themselves. There was so little glory in a Champions League winners medal, that he took a leaf out of the NFL's book and paid for individual Superbowl winners rings for each member of the Chelsea squad at a cost of £800k.

What a tacky, vulgar, classless act from a tacky, vulgar, classless sport and man.

What sort of idiot would wear a big ghastly Sovereign style ring? Oh yes a footballer.

Winning the Champions League these days is not that impressive, there are perhaps half a dozen teams capable of doing it, but it's just like cheating on Championship Manager with a bottomless pit of money. Boring.

as much as i rate ronnie o'sullivan- And i honestly feel he is the most giftest cuest ever. he shouldnt be in this.. He didnt/hasnt acheive enough

No branier- Phil taylor

By the way- jerry rice and all these pro American football posts and votes. Seriously!!


This is about GOATS. greatest of all times.. Phil taylor is surely the only one on the above list that is undoubtidly the best ever in his profession... As a poster above has said- he should walk this

He's so fat, he could only walk to the oche and back.

so what SR.. Its not materal.. Concentrate on GOATS, not what sport you consider to be the most athletic..

I know, I actually believe he is a GOAT of his "sport", without question, but his physical condition for a human being is a disgrace. He's on tv for heavens sake,has he no shame. I wouldn't leave the house if I was in that condition.

Well be thankfull he does go out otherwise imagine the size of him!!

Darts is a pub game... is it a sport? that is up for debate- but does it matter.. Its a competitive game which involves a physical motion- just like golf or snooker. All 3 are either in this or not. As they are . Taylor trumps the lot on the list IMO..

If the question was the most skillfull of the 4 i would say Ronnie.. If it was the strongest or fitest i would go hastings or rice..

Indeed Oakey, I understand the inclusion of Taylor, and to a lesser extent O Sullivan, even though I wouldn't consider dart, snooker, golf or cricket as true sports. There are doubtless people from those bar games or past times who could be considered GOATs

You don't consider Golf or Cricket as a sport? I can sort of understand Darts and Snooker but not the latter.

It's the dress trouser/ dress shoe/smoking/stop for cucumber sandwich equation.

If you go to your doctor and he asks what exercise you get and you say Cricket or Golf, he'll rightly laugh in your face.

To be a sport in my view there needs to be a high degree of physical exertion involved in addition to talent too.

I consider all of them sports personally. But if you dont consider darts and snooker sports then why consider cricket and golf...

They just require abit more physical presence thats all. Not just arms(or arm!!) the whole body.. But you dont need to be fit to perform at a pro level...

Some people have threasholds.... I dont - It doesnt matter how much physicality is needed for me.. Because then you will allways need a cut of point as you have shown above...

I draw the line at chess/poker etc - because they are competitive games only that dont require any physical motion..

super_realist wrote:It's the dress trouser/ dress shoe/smoking/stop for cucumber sandwich equation.

If you go to your doctor and he asks what exercise you get and you say Cricket or Golf, he'll rightly laugh in your face.

To be a sport in my view there needs to be a high degree of physical exertion involved in addition to talent too.

If he's an idiot, he might.

mystiroakey wrote:I consider all of them sports personally. But if you dont consider darts and snooker sports then why consider cricket and golf...

They just require abit more physical presence thats all. Not just arms(or arm!!) the whole body.. But you dont need to be fit to perform at a pro level...

Some people have threasholds.... I dont - It doesnt matter how much physicality is needed for me.. Because then you will allways need a cut of point as you have shown above...

I draw the line at chess/poker etc - because they are competitive games only that dont require any physical motion..

I can see why some might class them as pub games rather than sports but I don't.

You think a Doctor would consider Golf and Cricket as good exercise? Better than nothing but hardly going to keep the grim reaper at bay when followed by beer and cucumber sandwiches a plenty as most people do.

If that's all the exercise people get, they're in trouble.

SR is a good golfer. But he will never understand the benefits..

Golf and cricket would actually be the perfect sports for unfit peops to get into to start with... There are many other benefits as well...

I remember playing golf with someone every day over a hot summer about 10 years back.. He shedded 2 stone in 3 months!!

mystiroakey wrote:By the way- jerry rice and all these pro American football posts and votes. Seriously!!


This is about GOATS. greatest of all times.. Phil taylor is surely the only one on the above list that is undoubtidly the best ever in his profession... As a poster above has said- he should walk this

So what if he is greatest in a game where a pitiful amount of people want to play it professionally as most people either have no desire to or wouldn't consider it financially viable.