The Day Joe Gans Proved his Greatness
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Imperial Ghosty
88Chris05
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The Day Joe Gans Proved his Greatness
Am going through a bit of a Joe Gans obsession at the minute, Christmas bought me the biography of him by Colleen Aycock I have been waiting an age to read and on reading that it made me realise what a truly exceptional fighter Gans was. Do not want to talk through his career as I have done threads on this previously and it has been discussed on the many threads we have done trying to unpick who deserves to be top dog at lightweight but thought I’d focus on his legendary fight with Battling Nelson as it demonstrates just how great Gans truly was and is also a fascinating insight into the obstacles put in front of black fighters back in the day, even ones as great as Gans undoubtedly was.
The fight took place in 1906 in the small Nevada mining town of Goldfield, as an up and coming mining town the local powerbrokers were keen to stage a large event to raise their towns profile and hopefully encourage investment in their various mining companies. One of these powerbrokers was local businessman Tex Rickard who was yet to make his mark in the sport, or indeed have any involvement with it. Rickard suggested a prizefight and overcame any objections by agreeing to put in $30,000 of his own money to meet the purse and finance the fight.
Rickard’s initial attempts to get Terry McGovern to take the fight came to nothing as he did not receive a response from McGovern’s people. Gans on the other hand was only too happy to take the fight, despite having never lost the title in the ring Gans was struggling financially. When Gans had beaten Jimmy Britt on a foul a couple of years ago he had pretty much run out of opponents at light weight and was forced to mix with great welters such as Langford and Walcott just to earn a living. Because Britt had been having the better of their fight and because Gans had been operating mainly at welter Britt’s management began to claim the title for Jimmy. Such was the racist nature of the press at the time this piece of unbelievable chutzpah was not laughed out of court as it should have been but seems to have been accepted as fair, and is even to this day is reported as fact.
As Britt had subsequently lost to Battling Nelson many considered Nelson the champion so a fight between him and the true champion in Gans was a natural. Due to the lack of fights and opportunities he had delivered for Gans, Joe had spilt with his long term manager Al Herford so turned up in Nevada with basically no management. As the fight required him to post a $5000 guarantee Rickard’s business partner Larry Sullivan agreed to post the guarantee in return for being installed as Joe’s manager. He intended to make his money back by betting pretty much everything him and his friends on a Gans win. However as he was not the kind of guy who accepted failure or losing with much in the way of good grace he told Gans was he to lose the fight he would be killed before he was ever permitted to leave Goldfield.
As if this was not enough pressure Nelson’s management was only too aware of Gans’ struggles on the scales and so decided the weigh in was a decent opportunity to load the dice in their favour. It was not uncommon at the time for fighters to weigh in at ringside (although it should be noted it was not part of boxings rules at the tine), but even this was not enough for Nelson’s people who insisted that Gans weigh in at three times on the day of the fight including at ringside. Given Gans had not made 133 for two years and the fight was to be to the finish outdoors in Nevada this was one hell of an ask of the 30+ Gans. However to make matters even more ridiculous when Gans made the weight the first time Nelson’s people insisted he should do so in his fighting kit, a request that was pretty much unprecedented and was not a requirement of the sport then any more than it is now. One would have to think had Gans been a different colour or been supported by proper management this request would have been treated with the contempt it deserved but alas not, Gans was indeed forced to make 133 in his kit. To give you some idea how tough Gans found this he shaved every hair from his body and even used thinner laces in his boxing boots to reduce every last gram of weight.
If Gans thought things would improve for him once the bell rang he was in for a rude awakening. Nelson constantly charged him with his head frequently butting him, and whilst referee George Siler did warn Nelson on occasion it did little to prevent him employing this tactic and certainly did not lead to him being disqualified. In the early stages Gans’ class showed and had the fight been over 10, 12 or 15 rounds he would have run out a fairly comfortable points winner but the fight was to the finish and soon it became an attritional battle. As if the weight limits, the threats on his life and the constant head butts were not enough to contend with Nelson had a couple of strange medical conditions which made him absolutely the worst fighter to be in a fight to the finish with. The first of these was a slow heart beat, test showed his heart beat some 20 beats per minute less than was regular meaning he possessed almost super human stamina. Secondly he had a larger skull than is normally the case meaning he could absorb a far greater level of punishment than would normally be the case.
As Gans had the edge in talent and one hell of a reason not to risk losing the fight went on for a full 42 rounds. To put this in context throughout their full trilogy Ali and Frazier fought only 41 rounds and on the back of the fight in Manilla Ali described the experience as being as close to death as it was possible to come, one can only imagine how it must have felt to do 42 rounds and over two hours of fighting whilst weight drained in the Nevada sun. Despite all the disadvantages the round by round report suggests Gans had much the better of the action and when Nelson was finally disqualified in the 42nd round the decision was roundly applauded by all in attendance and Gans was considered a deserved and worthy winner.
I am loath to reopen the debate about the greatest ever lightweight as it has been done to death but on the back of reading about the constant obstacles put in Gans’ path and his ability to win irrespective of what was thrown his way I am fast becoming convinced he may have a great case to sit atop the pile, but wherever we end up deciding he deserves to be what cannot be argued is on that day in Nevada Gans proved, was any proof needed, that he was truly one of the greatest fighters to ever grace this or any other division.
The fight took place in 1906 in the small Nevada mining town of Goldfield, as an up and coming mining town the local powerbrokers were keen to stage a large event to raise their towns profile and hopefully encourage investment in their various mining companies. One of these powerbrokers was local businessman Tex Rickard who was yet to make his mark in the sport, or indeed have any involvement with it. Rickard suggested a prizefight and overcame any objections by agreeing to put in $30,000 of his own money to meet the purse and finance the fight.
Rickard’s initial attempts to get Terry McGovern to take the fight came to nothing as he did not receive a response from McGovern’s people. Gans on the other hand was only too happy to take the fight, despite having never lost the title in the ring Gans was struggling financially. When Gans had beaten Jimmy Britt on a foul a couple of years ago he had pretty much run out of opponents at light weight and was forced to mix with great welters such as Langford and Walcott just to earn a living. Because Britt had been having the better of their fight and because Gans had been operating mainly at welter Britt’s management began to claim the title for Jimmy. Such was the racist nature of the press at the time this piece of unbelievable chutzpah was not laughed out of court as it should have been but seems to have been accepted as fair, and is even to this day is reported as fact.
As Britt had subsequently lost to Battling Nelson many considered Nelson the champion so a fight between him and the true champion in Gans was a natural. Due to the lack of fights and opportunities he had delivered for Gans, Joe had spilt with his long term manager Al Herford so turned up in Nevada with basically no management. As the fight required him to post a $5000 guarantee Rickard’s business partner Larry Sullivan agreed to post the guarantee in return for being installed as Joe’s manager. He intended to make his money back by betting pretty much everything him and his friends on a Gans win. However as he was not the kind of guy who accepted failure or losing with much in the way of good grace he told Gans was he to lose the fight he would be killed before he was ever permitted to leave Goldfield.
As if this was not enough pressure Nelson’s management was only too aware of Gans’ struggles on the scales and so decided the weigh in was a decent opportunity to load the dice in their favour. It was not uncommon at the time for fighters to weigh in at ringside (although it should be noted it was not part of boxings rules at the tine), but even this was not enough for Nelson’s people who insisted that Gans weigh in at three times on the day of the fight including at ringside. Given Gans had not made 133 for two years and the fight was to be to the finish outdoors in Nevada this was one hell of an ask of the 30+ Gans. However to make matters even more ridiculous when Gans made the weight the first time Nelson’s people insisted he should do so in his fighting kit, a request that was pretty much unprecedented and was not a requirement of the sport then any more than it is now. One would have to think had Gans been a different colour or been supported by proper management this request would have been treated with the contempt it deserved but alas not, Gans was indeed forced to make 133 in his kit. To give you some idea how tough Gans found this he shaved every hair from his body and even used thinner laces in his boxing boots to reduce every last gram of weight.
If Gans thought things would improve for him once the bell rang he was in for a rude awakening. Nelson constantly charged him with his head frequently butting him, and whilst referee George Siler did warn Nelson on occasion it did little to prevent him employing this tactic and certainly did not lead to him being disqualified. In the early stages Gans’ class showed and had the fight been over 10, 12 or 15 rounds he would have run out a fairly comfortable points winner but the fight was to the finish and soon it became an attritional battle. As if the weight limits, the threats on his life and the constant head butts were not enough to contend with Nelson had a couple of strange medical conditions which made him absolutely the worst fighter to be in a fight to the finish with. The first of these was a slow heart beat, test showed his heart beat some 20 beats per minute less than was regular meaning he possessed almost super human stamina. Secondly he had a larger skull than is normally the case meaning he could absorb a far greater level of punishment than would normally be the case.
As Gans had the edge in talent and one hell of a reason not to risk losing the fight went on for a full 42 rounds. To put this in context throughout their full trilogy Ali and Frazier fought only 41 rounds and on the back of the fight in Manilla Ali described the experience as being as close to death as it was possible to come, one can only imagine how it must have felt to do 42 rounds and over two hours of fighting whilst weight drained in the Nevada sun. Despite all the disadvantages the round by round report suggests Gans had much the better of the action and when Nelson was finally disqualified in the 42nd round the decision was roundly applauded by all in attendance and Gans was considered a deserved and worthy winner.
I am loath to reopen the debate about the greatest ever lightweight as it has been done to death but on the back of reading about the constant obstacles put in Gans’ path and his ability to win irrespective of what was thrown his way I am fast becoming convinced he may have a great case to sit atop the pile, but wherever we end up deciding he deserves to be what cannot be argued is on that day in Nevada Gans proved, was any proof needed, that he was truly one of the greatest fighters to ever grace this or any other division.
Rowley- Admin
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Location : I'm just a symptom of the modern decay that's gnawing at the heart of this country.
Re: The Day Joe Gans Proved his Greatness
Excellent piece Jeff. Always an education. Keep up the good work.
spencerclarke- Posts : 1897
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : North Yorkshire
Re: The Day Joe Gans Proved his Greatness
I think it's wonderful that V2 has dedicated people like yourself that can actually write.
So first off, i want to say, great article.
Certainly worthy of some kind of reply, unfortunately, my knowledge of Burley is sparing at best. Therefore, sadly, all i can offer is this...
How many lightweights have autobiographies?
Buchanan, Oscar de la Hoya, Tapia, Robinson...Micky Vann?.... (I'm scraping the barrel).
My point is, we don't know what trials and tribulations former lightweights have went through if they haven't got a book. I mean, if we're going to factor hardship into rating fighters, then surely Tapia is an outright winner? Or perhaps some guy without a book.
Again, apologies for my weak and awkward input.
So first off, i want to say, great article.
Certainly worthy of some kind of reply, unfortunately, my knowledge of Burley is sparing at best. Therefore, sadly, all i can offer is this...
Rowley wrote:
...on the back of reading about the constant obstacles put in Gans’ path and his ability to win irrespective of what was thrown his way I am fast becoming convinced he may have a great case to sit atop the pile.
How many lightweights have autobiographies?
Buchanan, Oscar de la Hoya, Tapia, Robinson...Micky Vann?.... (I'm scraping the barrel).
My point is, we don't know what trials and tribulations former lightweights have went through if they haven't got a book. I mean, if we're going to factor hardship into rating fighters, then surely Tapia is an outright winner? Or perhaps some guy without a book.
Again, apologies for my weak and awkward input.
Last edited by TheMackemMawler on Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
TheMackemMawler- Posts : 2606
Join date : 2012-05-24
Location : Lincolnshire
Re: The Day Joe Gans Proved his Greatness
Benny Leonard hasn't got a book and he is top, irrespective of what Chris may tell you to the contrary
Rowley- Admin
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Re: The Day Joe Gans Proved his Greatness
Plus 42 rounds is just an incredible super human effort!
It's a fascinating story, all the more so for it not being fiction.
It's a fascinating story, all the more so for it not being fiction.
spencerclarke- Posts : 1897
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : North Yorkshire
Re: The Day Joe Gans Proved his Greatness
Great article, Jeff.
The Gans-Nelson fight is definitely one of the most fascinating single bouts in history and I have to admit I'm a touch annoyed at myself for (so far) passing up the Gans biography by Aycock, as this little reminder has made it hit home that I'd have enjoyed it in all probability.
As you say, the debate of ranking fighters has been done to death but I will say that any Lightweight list that doesn't have Gans in the top five needs a bit of moderation. He's deducted no points at all in my eyes for the fact that Nelson eventually dethroned him; as your article shows, it was nigh-on miraculous that he was even able to compete with a fighter as handy as Nelson in the first place given his age, external pressures and the fact that he was stopping only just short of cutting off a leg to make Lightweight.
It's a nice bonus, too, that we still have film available of the 'Old Master.' Obviously, his style is out of line with the more refined techniques we see now but even then you can appreciate and see that classy counter-punching ability he had, and you can understand why he stood out so much as the supreme technician in a time when, by large, grace and fleet-footedness weren't often associated with the sport.
A giant of boxing history, both as a Lightweight champion and in a pound for pound sense.
The Gans-Nelson fight is definitely one of the most fascinating single bouts in history and I have to admit I'm a touch annoyed at myself for (so far) passing up the Gans biography by Aycock, as this little reminder has made it hit home that I'd have enjoyed it in all probability.
As you say, the debate of ranking fighters has been done to death but I will say that any Lightweight list that doesn't have Gans in the top five needs a bit of moderation. He's deducted no points at all in my eyes for the fact that Nelson eventually dethroned him; as your article shows, it was nigh-on miraculous that he was even able to compete with a fighter as handy as Nelson in the first place given his age, external pressures and the fact that he was stopping only just short of cutting off a leg to make Lightweight.
It's a nice bonus, too, that we still have film available of the 'Old Master.' Obviously, his style is out of line with the more refined techniques we see now but even then you can appreciate and see that classy counter-punching ability he had, and you can understand why he stood out so much as the supreme technician in a time when, by large, grace and fleet-footedness weren't often associated with the sport.
A giant of boxing history, both as a Lightweight champion and in a pound for pound sense.
88Chris05- Moderator
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Re: The Day Joe Gans Proved his Greatness
With Gans it wasn't so much a hard childhood but rather he had to do much more to get a fight let alone win one, in the sport itself the names you mentioned simply didn't have to deal with such contempt just because of their skin colour.
Imperial Ghosty- Posts : 10156
Join date : 2011-02-15
Re: The Day Joe Gans Proved his Greatness
The book is a belter Chris, will review it properly when I finish it but suffice to say it will be extremely positive. Floyd Patterson biography next, struggle to imagine a thread based on that will cause any problems round here.
Rowley- Admin
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Re: The Day Joe Gans Proved his Greatness
Fine work again rowley. Your continued efforts are an education and greatly appreciated
milkyboy- Posts : 7762
Join date : 2011-05-22
Re: The Day Joe Gans Proved his Greatness
Jeff, it really is hugely encouraging to see that folk like yourself and Chris still take the time and show the commitment to turn out articles as informative and thought-provoking as this one.
Old-fashioned in style or not, a relic of a former age or not, Gans absolutely deserves his place among the lightweight immortals (fourth? fifth?). The victory over Nelson emphasised the toughness that underpinned Gans' treasure trove of skills and consistently underrated sharpness of punch (admiring his pure boxing skills, it can be easy to forget that he scored 100 KOs).
The Gans-Nelson battle royal showcased the "Durable Dane's" absolute mastery of the black arts of boxing and it was a tribute to Joe that he produced the necessary intestinal fortitude and resourcefulness to overcome one of the dirtiest fighters of all time. The 42-round epic also underlines the greatness of our own Owen Moran once again, who became the first man to force Nelson to hear the 10 count when he KO'd him in 11 in 1910.
Old-fashioned in style or not, a relic of a former age or not, Gans absolutely deserves his place among the lightweight immortals (fourth? fifth?). The victory over Nelson emphasised the toughness that underpinned Gans' treasure trove of skills and consistently underrated sharpness of punch (admiring his pure boxing skills, it can be easy to forget that he scored 100 KOs).
The Gans-Nelson battle royal showcased the "Durable Dane's" absolute mastery of the black arts of boxing and it was a tribute to Joe that he produced the necessary intestinal fortitude and resourcefulness to overcome one of the dirtiest fighters of all time. The 42-round epic also underlines the greatness of our own Owen Moran once again, who became the first man to force Nelson to hear the 10 count when he KO'd him in 11 in 1910.
captain carrantuohil- Posts : 2508
Join date : 2011-05-06
Re: The Day Joe Gans Proved his Greatness
Hi Jeff - here is the article on the journal.
Will get Tweeting about it and see if we can get a few more views for you.
http://www.v2journal.com/3/post/2013/01/the-day-joe-gans-proved-his-greatness.html
Will get Tweeting about it and see if we can get a few more views for you.
http://www.v2journal.com/3/post/2013/01/the-day-joe-gans-proved-his-greatness.html
Re: The Day Joe Gans Proved his Greatness
The first movie on Boxing I bought was the greatest lightweights and I remember featured first up was the grainy footage of Gans vs Nelson in the sun all them years ago in a wooden makeshift arena.....
The fight more than a century ago......captured Boxing in all it's simplistic glory..one belt two guys giving their all for the chance to change their lives for the better.
The sun going down and the thought whilst watching that two lives were going to change forever that day for better or for worst......
Wonderful times and I'd have given anything to watch a Corbett-Fitzsimmons or a Gans-Nelson..........even with Windy in his pink dress!!
The past is often better because it isn't now...all my ex-girlfriends look better to me now than they were at the time.....but that's by the by..
Often think outdoor fights have more romanticism...legends created or shattered as the sun sets......I miss the Hilton hotel car park, Caesars.. even the Riviera....
Gans fought in a romantic era.....surrounded by other big names (being undisputed helps)...probably while I'll always love the 80's.....
Glad you've given Gans the heads up...should think he harbors a wry smile.... that he's remembered by a bunch of white boys a hundred years later so fondly.....
After all I'm sure he had his fill of the like in his lifetime..................
Was he one of the greatest lightweights ever....for sure..but I won't sully the article by stressing my thoughts on the ratings of these old timers...
The fight more than a century ago......captured Boxing in all it's simplistic glory..one belt two guys giving their all for the chance to change their lives for the better.
The sun going down and the thought whilst watching that two lives were going to change forever that day for better or for worst......
Wonderful times and I'd have given anything to watch a Corbett-Fitzsimmons or a Gans-Nelson..........even with Windy in his pink dress!!
The past is often better because it isn't now...all my ex-girlfriends look better to me now than they were at the time.....but that's by the by..
Often think outdoor fights have more romanticism...legends created or shattered as the sun sets......I miss the Hilton hotel car park, Caesars.. even the Riviera....
Gans fought in a romantic era.....surrounded by other big names (being undisputed helps)...probably while I'll always love the 80's.....
Glad you've given Gans the heads up...should think he harbors a wry smile.... that he's remembered by a bunch of white boys a hundred years later so fondly.....
After all I'm sure he had his fill of the like in his lifetime..................
Was he one of the greatest lightweights ever....for sure..but I won't sully the article by stressing my thoughts on the ratings of these old timers...
TRUSSMAN66- Posts : 40690
Join date : 2011-02-02
Re: The Day Joe Gans Proved his Greatness
Trussy, the fact that you find two guys beating each other to a standstill for 40 rounds, romantic, probably explains why those ex girlfriends are exes. But, we know what you mean you old softy.
milkyboy- Posts : 7762
Join date : 2011-05-22
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