Sexton to Racing or just mind games?

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Mon 14 Jan 2013, 2:08 pm

Sexton is out of contract in June this year and is up there as the best flyhalf in the Northern hemisphere. He is young and ambitious and may want to travel abroad or make money while he can in what will be a short career (all rugby players' are).

Would this be a good move for Sexton? It certainly wouldn't be for Leinster. It certainly would be for Madigan.
I for one am not to critical of this news if he wants to go he should be allowed to, that being said I assume he will return to Leinster (or at least Ireland) at some point in his career if not for the 2014/15 season leading in to the RWC in England.

Rugby: Jonathan Sexton, who is out of contract with the IRFU at the end of this season, is reported to be considering a lucrative move to the French Top 14. Reports in France claim that Parisian club Racing Métro are leading the chase for the Leinster star’s signature.

Last week it was claimed the Ireland outhalf was in negotiations with four French clubs with the respected Midi Olympique newspaper reporting this morning that Sexton has already met Racing’s millionaire owner Jacky Lorenzetti on a couple of occasions.The last meeting between Sexton and his advisers and Lorenzetti was in Paris yesterday, according to the paper, and went very well.

It is not the first time that an Ireland player coming to the end of his contract has been linked with a move abroad with Brian O’Driscoll famously photographed at a Biarritz game in 2005 while Jamie Heaslip was also courted by foreign clubs before he agreed his most recent deal with the IRFU.

In fact, Sexton was reported to have been offered a €1.1 million deal to join up with Michael Cheika at Stade Francais before he agreed his last IRFU contract in 2011. Reports over the weekend suggested he could now earn as much as €750,000 per annum.

Whether that figure is accurate remains to be seen but there is no doubt that Sexton would be able to command a big-money deal in the wealthy French league with the 27-year-old one of the hottest properties in world rugby. Barring injury, Sexton would appear to be a nailed-on starter for the British and Irish Lions next summer and the outhalf has been one of the driving forces behind Leinster’s European dominance in recent seasons.

And despite a legion of stars on their books already, Racing certainly have the resources to accommodate the Ireland international.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/rugby/2013/0114/1224328821975.html

by Artful_Dodger Mon 14 Jan 2013, 2:17 pm

Hmmm....

by Kingshu Mon 14 Jan 2013, 2:20 pm

I'd say Sexton will stay, his agent is just trying to get the best Contract from the IRFU that he can.

Leinster may not be able to offer the same money, but they do offer is a better chance of silverware, (moving to Racing metro would be a step down), a prolonged career, and better chances with Ireland (ie he's rested and hitting peak form for Ireland, not top 14 play offs).

He may earn less at Leinster, but he'll be able to play longer for them. If BoD had gone to France in his prime, I'd guess he'd be retired with injury by now.

by Artful_Dodger Mon 14 Jan 2013, 2:21 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong but thats £625k they are offering a year?

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Mon 14 Jan 2013, 2:25 pm

Yes Artful something around that figure. It's pretty massive.

I agree that maybe Racing wouldn't be somewhere he would like to go but I could see him being interested in Toulouse, Biarritz or maybe Toulon if Wilko wasn't in the frame.

I think it would be good for him to spend one season away either in France or the Southern Hemisphere.

by BlueMuff Mon 14 Jan 2013, 2:34 pm

Mind games - heard this all before

by MacKnocked-on Mon 14 Jan 2013, 2:43 pm

Is there not some sort of tax arrangement for pro sportsmen (and women) in Ireland that makes it disadvantageous for them to move abroad?

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Mon 14 Jan 2013, 2:47 pm

MacKnocked-on wrote:Is there not some sort of tax arrangement for pro sportsmen (and women) in Ireland that makes it disadvantageous for them to move abroad?

Pretty close Mac.
It is meant for when you finish your career that it is benefitial to be in Ireland, you can play outside and still get your tax break if you finish back in Ireland

by MacKnocked-on Mon 14 Jan 2013, 3:39 pm

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:
MacKnocked-on wrote:Is there not some sort of tax arrangement for pro sportsmen (and women) in Ireland that makes it disadvantageous for them to move abroad?

Pretty close Mac.
It is meant for when you finish your career that it is benefitial to be in Ireland, you can play outside and still get your tax break if you finish back in Ireland

So it's very unlikely that BOD will be taking up a offer from France or Super Rugby in that case?

by GunsGerms Mon 14 Jan 2013, 4:28 pm

I believe that Jonny Wilkinson gets over £700k a year at Toulon. Given that Sexton is now a much better and younger player. If I was him I wouldnt go for anthing less.

by GunsGerms Mon 14 Jan 2013, 5:14 pm

Its all contract related anyway of course. Anyone remember ROGs agent claiming the Miami Dolphins had some knocking. Would be a good career for him now. All field goal kickers have to do is kick well and they can play into their 40s like Adam Vinatieri of the Colts. Plus he already has a green card.

by Mickado Tue 15 Jan 2013, 8:48 am

No point in speculating if the rumours are true I’d say, we hear this about loads of top Irish players but it’s going to happen eventually.

While I really hope it isn’t true, if it was…

Pro’s:

Ian Madigan would get a lot of game time in big games (he’s already played 7 games more than Sexton this season anyway)
????

Con’s:
Losing arguably our best player in the prime of his career
Losing on field leadership
He’s centrally contracted so we’re not saving a large chunk of cash

Would Noel Reid be ready to become Leinsters backup outhalf? Would/should we look to sign a backup? Any chance Keatley would fancy coming back to form a horses for courses type partnership with Madigan?

by Kingshu Tue 15 Jan 2013, 9:27 am

Mickado your looking at it from a very Leinster view, I thend to look at it from an Irish point of view, if Sexton left it could signal that the central contracts are not enough anymore to tempt top players to stay.

I'd rather Sexton stayed and Madigan went to France rather than the other way round.

Leinster have a lot of players and some that are not getting gametime are too good to warm the bench, its about Leinster keeping the players they want to, not losing players they want to keep.

For Ireland to continue to hold onto the Irish players, do you think we may need to start playing an extra international like Wales?
Hopefully with the H-cup, it does become more profitable, (how can Top 14 generate more a game for the French)?
really push the Pro 12, to generating income equal to Aviva?

by beshocked Tue 15 Jan 2013, 9:33 am

GunsGerms wrote:I believe that Jonny Wilkinson gets over £700k a year at Toulon. Given that Sexton is now a much better and younger player. If I was him I wouldnt go for anthing less.

Jonny Wilkinson still has that aura and star quality that means he commands a higher salary. Plus he's better looking than Sexton.

Wlkinson is a bit like Beckham is in football - he's a marketing executive's dream.

Sexton is not yet there.

by Mickado Tue 15 Jan 2013, 10:02 am

Kingshu wrote:Mickado your looking at it from a very Leinster view, I thend to look at it from an Irish point of view, if Sexton left it could signal that the central contracts are not enough anymore to tempt top players to stay.

I'd rather Sexton stayed and Madigan went to France rather than the other way round.

Leinster have a lot of players and some that are not getting gametime are too good to warm the bench, its about Leinster keeping the players they want to, not losing players they want to keep.

For Ireland to continue to hold onto the Irish players, do you think we may need to start playing an extra international like Wales?
Hopefully with the H-cup, it does become more profitable, (how can Top 14 generate more a game for the French)?
really push the Pro 12, to generating income equal to Aviva?

I don’t think it will come to that King, I mean, we’ve done a pretty good job holding onto our players so far, and even if Sexton does leave that wouldn’t mean that the floodgates will open, we know that French teams can offer Irish players more money, that’s always been the case. As long as we can continue to offer what we offer to our players (the player management scheme, tax incentives, centralized contracts etc.) then we will hold on to the majority of them.

by GunsGerms Tue 15 Jan 2013, 10:28 am

beshocked wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:I believe that Jonny Wilkinson gets over £700k a year at Toulon. Given that Sexton is now a much better and younger player. If I was him I wouldnt go for anthing less.

Jonny Wilkinson still has that aura and star quality that means he commands a higher salary. Plus he's better looking than Sexton.

Wlkinson is a bit like Beckham is in football - he's a marketing executive's dream.

Sexton is not yet there.

Ha youre gas. Latest figure being mentioned for Sexton is 1.1€m. Sexton should be worth more than Wilko even if Wilko is cleaner cut and a "marketing execs dream".

by GunsGerms Tue 15 Jan 2013, 10:31 am

It would be better if Madigan went to France. As Shaggy said last night on off the ball "Sextonis Irelands best player now by some distance".

by Brendan Tue 15 Jan 2013, 11:10 am

If Sexton goes would he be in the wilderness international. If he is not then we would see others going. To get the tax back they only have to finish off in Ireland.

I would like to see more irish people an connacht but as people say two of the three teams have two good teams, one that plays and one that watches. Ulster are getting there. If some of the people that went to Irish had of gone to connacht they would be in a better team and be at home.

With no super tax now coming in in france that has to be good for sports stars.

by beshocked Tue 15 Jan 2013, 11:11 am

GunsGerms wrote:
beshocked wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:I believe that Jonny Wilkinson gets over £700k a year at Toulon. Given that Sexton is now a much better and younger player. If I was him I wouldnt go for anthing less.

Jonny Wilkinson still has that aura and star quality that means he commands a higher salary. Plus he's better looking than Sexton.

Wlkinson is a bit like Beckham is in football - he's a marketing executive's dream.

Sexton is not yet there.

Ha youre gas. Latest figure being mentioned for Sexton is 1.1€m. Sexton should be worth more than Wilko even if Wilko is cleaner cut and a "marketing execs dream".

Maybe Sexton would be worth more than Sir Jonny in terms of current playing ability but in terms of reputation,looks, awareness Jonny is far ahead.

Sir Jonny is a deity in England and France. As for Sexton.....

Dan Carter on the other hand can match Sir Jonny..... Could probably surpass him too.

by Mickado Tue 15 Jan 2013, 11:15 am

Brendan wrote:If Sexton goes would he be in the wilderness international. If he is not then we would see others going. To get the tax back they only have to finish off in Ireland.

I would like to see more irish people an connacht but as people say two of the three teams have two good teams, one that plays and one that watches. Ulster are getting there. If some of the people that went to Irish had of gone to connacht they would be in a better team and be at home.

With no super tax now coming in in france that has to be good for sports stars.

I'd say he'd still play for Ireland, we're not so flush with talent that we can ignore someone of his ability because they're not playing in Ireland. Sure Geordan Murphy (who is often described by some as "criminally under rated / under used") had over 70 caps and he never played in Ireland. If a player on the fringes of the national team wants to be picked, they need to be in Ireland, if our best OH by some distance plays outside of Ireland, that's a differnt kettle of fish...

by beshocked Tue 15 Jan 2013, 11:17 am

It does set a worrying precedent for Irish players if you do lose Sexton.

I hope for Irish rugby's sake you hold onto him.

by Kingshu Tue 15 Jan 2013, 11:47 am

Lets be fair,
we lost Tommy Bowe for Years to Wales, and didn't panic, Ok Wales isn't France but same thing, he was on very good pay there.

Bowe was still picked for Ireland even though he wasn't in Ireland, have to say Ospreys were very good at releasing him for Ireland duty, didn't keep him to last minute, or request money from IRFU for early release, (maybe ion the understanding if any Welsh players play in Ireland we'll do the same?)

The not picked if overseas is a myth, if its nearly a 50/50 call between a player overseas, and a player in Ireland, the provinicial player is going to be released for more training camps and get togethers, have better access to coahes and how they want you to play, so in theory will be better prepared to play for Ireland than an over seas player.
Even if the overseas player is slightly better the squad stuff may make the Provinicial player a better player for Ireland, than the better overseas player. Hence if overseas, you need to be clearly better than the provinicial player for your position to be picked, not just 50/50 or slightly better.

Normally we've had a few players overseas, (mostly England/Wales) this is the first time to my memory that all the players are based in Ireland,

even at the World cup 3 players where oversea's, Tony Buckley/Bowe/Murphy when we won the 2009 6 nations 5 squad players were based overseas.

So while we can say the only fringe player overseas now is Buckley, it may change, as there are some good players in England at present.

PS we'll all talking about D'arcy or Marshall, but we're forgetting Whitten has been going well for Chiefs of late as well, could he make the training squad? That would be another overseas one.

by Brendan Tue 15 Jan 2013, 11:55 am

I thought the IRFU had brought in an unoficaly fule that overseas players weren't picked unless need. Murphy and Bow it didn't apply to as they were outside the union before it was brought in. But as you say (sadly) Tony was picked while overseas

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Tue 15 Jan 2013, 12:07 pm

Madigan going would be better now that you say it

by Pot Hale Tue 15 Jan 2013, 12:32 pm

If Sexton goes, then it will be a game changing decision for Irish rugby. Healy, Heaslip, O'Brien, Kearney, Fitzgerald could all be targeted - that's just within Leinster.

With the changes coming down the track within European comps - and they will - the future could look quite shaky for Welsh and Irish club rugby.

by GunsGerms Tue 15 Jan 2013, 1:19 pm

Pot Hale wrote:If Sexton goes, then it will be a game changing decision for Irish rugby. Healy, Heaslip, O'Brien, Kearney, Fitzgerald could all be targeted - that's just within Leinster.

With the changes coming down the track within European comps - and they will - the future could look quite shaky for Welsh and Irish club rugby.

How do you know they havent all been targeted already? Sexton's contract runs out at the end of the year. Its fairly typical of the IRFU to leave negotiations to the last minute because as we all know as per TOL and Fitz form can dip very quickly and players can fall out of favour. Its unlikely to happen to Sexton but this will drag on for a while as both sides jostle for position.

by GunsGerms Tue 15 Jan 2013, 1:22 pm

There wont be any major changes to European rugby. At worst the English will sit out on the naughty step for a year and come back with their tail between their legs.

by Pot Hale Tue 15 Jan 2013, 1:24 pm

GunsGerms wrote:There wont be any major changes to European rugby. At worst the English will sit out on the naughty step for a year and come back with their tail between their legs.

And you're certain of this because.........?

by GunsGerms Tue 15 Jan 2013, 1:42 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:There wont be any major changes to European rugby. At worst the English will sit out on the naughty step for a year and come back with their tail between their legs.

And you're certain of this because.........?

The APL dont even have the full backing of their own union never mind the rest of Europe. Their proposals are ridiculous, anti-competitive in nature and their contract agreements with BT illigitimate.

They have tried this before unsucessfully and had to sit out in the cold in 99'. As an Ulsterman you will remember that well.

Finally, English teams are doing very well in the Heineken cup at present and will most likely have a finalist. One good year and all will be forgotten.

by Kingshu Tue 15 Jan 2013, 1:53 pm

GunsGerms, Pot Hale don't turn this into a future of H-cup thread, we've all had enough of that, and nothing said will be new, or even intresting., maybe look back at one of the 100's of other threads for it?

by Sin é Tue 15 Jan 2013, 2:30 pm

Pot Hale wrote:If Sexton goes, then it will be a game changing decision for Irish rugby. Healy, Heaslip, O'Brien, Kearney, Fitzgerald could all be targeted - that's just within Leinster.

With the changes coming down the track within European comps - and they will - the future could look quite shaky for Welsh and Irish club rugby.

If the IRFU even try and match Racing's offer to Sexton, Healy & Co might need to leave anyway as there will be nothing left to pay them with. Money doesn't grow on trees.

Zebo turned down Toulouse recently and he isn't on a central contract (and family connections with France).

by Intotouch Tue 15 Jan 2013, 10:23 pm

The French salary cap is €8.3 million. They've a quota for locally qualified players in each squad that's gradually increasing. Yes the clubs overall budgets are far bigger than that but I don't buy this idea that every talented player in Ireland will be lured away or even targeted just because Sexton goes. They can't just throw money around on every player they take a fancy to.

Sexton to Racing or just mind games?

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