Olly Kohn for Wales?

First topic message reminder :

With the list of healthy locks in Wales apparently now down to Lou Reed, one of the less mentioned news stories over the weekend was that Quins' enforcer-and-purveyor-of-sausages Olly Kohn has revealed that he has a Welsh grandfather and would happily play for Wales. It's a bit cheeky, and clearly not a long-term option, but I can see the attraction for Olly - he's lost several years to injury and despite being in excellent form he's too old to feature in Stuart Lancaster's plans. It might be his only shot at international recognition, and I for one would not begrudge him pulling on a red jersey instead of a white one if the call came.

But I've seen almost no reaction to this. What do the Wales fans think? Could he do a job for you in what is fast becoming a crisis?

Not necessarily. He wasn't in the original squad, so it's not a given he will be capped. I do think he will get some game time, so he's then WQ but I'd be surprised if he got much.

Morgannwg wrote:Well he's more Welsh than Flutey is English, you can put it that way!

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Flutey played for an English club. Unless I'm forgetting something England have never called up a player who has never played in England to represent the national team. Just like Heathcote I think you should at least live and play in a country before you represent it's national team..

DaveM wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:Well he's more Welsh than Flutey is English, you can put it that way!

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Flutey played for an English club. Unless I'm forgetting something England have never called up a player who has never played in England to represent the national team. Just like Heathcote I think you should at least live and play in a country before you represent it's national team..

Heathcote qualifies by the fact he was born in Inverness and lived there til he was three... Completely different from both Kohn and Flutey!

So living and playing in a country defines your nationality more than your blood relations

RubyGuby wrote:So living and playing in a country defines your nationality more than your blood relations

It's an interesting point actually. Being born to parents of a certain nationality is a matter of luck really (let's not get into predestination discussions ) but living and playing in a country involves making a choice.

It's a personal thing, so a regulatory minefield. You'll never get it right.

Risca Rev wrote:Not necessarily. He wasn't in the original squad, so it's not a given he will be capped. I do think he will get some game time, so he's then WQ but I'd be surprised if he got much.

I think we all hope that guys like Coombes and King are better than Kohn and we don't have to use him. If he is good he will get Caps.

DaveM wrote:

Morgannwg wrote:Well he's more Welsh than Flutey is English, you can put it that way!

#

Flutey played for an English club. Unless I'm forgetting something England have never called up a player who has never played in England to represent the national team. Just like Heathcote I think you should at least live and play in a country before you represent it's national team..

Ben Morgan?

Ben Morgan....born in England and played some rugby in England before moving to Wales.

How are we defining 'some rugby'?

Drop kicking a ball on the beach with his nan?

Do we really need to have these playground spats every time someone with less than 100% nationality appears in a squad?

Every side in the home nations has picked some pretty suspect people in the past. All 4 have players with tenuous links in their current 6Ns training squads.

We all do it - so how about we stop being so eager to grab the bait offered by the WUMs?

Casartelli wrote:How are we defining 'some rugby'?

Drop kicking a ball on the beach with his nan?

No, he played for a Dursley RFC.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

Casartelli wrote:How are we defining 'some rugby'?

Drop kicking a ball on the beach with his nan?

No, he played for a Dursley RFC.

Who?

What about John Scott? Going back a bit, played in the GS team of 1980 I think - but didn't he play all his club rugby for Cardiff?

It's a club in Gloucestershire.

Fair play on Kohn, if you're that desperate to play International rugby go for it fella.

As an Engalnd fan if we had called up somebody on similar grounds it wouldn't sit easy.

The grandparent rule is a bit odd.

It's the residency rules that grate the most for me, crazy

Casartelli wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

Casartelli wrote:How are we defining 'some rugby'?

Drop kicking a ball on the beach with his nan?

No, he played for a Dursley RFC.

Who?

What about John Scott? Going back a bit, played in the GS team of 1980 I think - but didn't he play all his club rugby for Cardiff?

He also played for Exeter, St Lukes College, Rosslyn Park and Devon/Cornwall

Dubbelyew L Overate wrote:

Casartelli wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

Casartelli wrote:How are we defining 'some rugby'?

Drop kicking a ball on the beach with his nan?

No, he played for a Dursley RFC.

Who?

What about John Scott? Going back a bit, played in the GS team of 1980 I think - but didn't he play all his club rugby for Cardiff?

He also played for Exeter, St Lukes College, Rosslyn Park and Devon/Cornwall

But John Scott was English so he had every right to play for England. Also was is interesting is that both Stuart Barnes and I think Dewi Morris could have played rugby for Wales instead of England in the late 1980's to early 1990's. Wales could have been an altogether better team had these 2 guys chosen to play for Wales.

Barnes & Morris wouldn't have made the Welsh team, even back then.

Now, if we could have found a Welsh ancestor for Teague, Winterbottom, Richards, Dooley, Moore-o or Leonard things would've looked very different. They'd have smashed down the Severn Bridge tolls in their rush to get over here.

gboycottnut wrote:

Dubbelyew L Overate wrote:

Casartelli wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

Casartelli wrote:How are we defining 'some rugby'?

Drop kicking a ball on the beach with his nan?

No, he played for a Dursley RFC.

Who?

What about John Scott? Going back a bit, played in the GS team of 1980 I think - but didn't he play all his club rugby for Cardiff?

He also played for Exeter, St Lukes College, Rosslyn Park and Devon/Cornwall

But John Scott was English so he had every right to play for England. Also was is interesting is that both Stuart Barnes and I think Dewi Morris could have played rugby for Wales instead of England in the late 1980's to early 1990's. Wales could have been an altogether better team had these 2 guys chosen to play for Wales.

Yes, you're right but both are for different reasons. Dewi Morris was born in Wales but Staurt Barnes qualified on residency while playing rugby for Newport while in Uni. After leaving to play for Bath then he would have 'lost' the residency at some point and would then have been illegible.

Sorry, just read that Barnes was educated here too. But still residency I suppose.

Casartelli wrote:Barnes & Morris wouldn't have made the Welsh team, even back then.

Now, if we could have found a Welsh ancestor for Teague, Winterbottom, Richards, Dooley, Moore-o or Leonard things would've looked very different. They'd have smashed down the Severn Bridge tolls in their rush to get over here.

Instead we gave you Rupert Moon and Tony Copsey

I reckon we got the better of that deal.

It was only as recent as 2000 that the IRB ruled that a player could only represent one nation.

For example Stuart Barnes could have happily swapped Warming the bench for England to take the absent Jonathon Davies shirt for Wales should he have wished.

Though Neil Jenkins was keeping it warm until Davies return to Union.

This chap looks OK by me

Now I bet that goes right over your heads

Don't worry Ruby. Initially it had me stumped, but then I got it

Cyril on 606v2 wrote:Don't worry Ruby. Initially it had me stumped, but then I got it

RubyGuby wrote:So living and playing in a country defines your nationality more than your blood relations

Yes, of course it does. Living and playing in a country is a choice. The Grandparent rule is ridiculous as where your Grandparents were born is a pretty obscure link to anything. Frankly, why stop there - if we go back a few dozen generations I'm probably France qualified?

If Koln wants to represent Wales he should go and live and work in the country for a few years - at least that way you are showing some commitment.

Kohn and Davies at the Blues would be huge

DaveM wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:So living and playing in a country defines your nationality more than your blood relations

Yes, of course it does. Living and playing in a country is a choice. The Grandparent rule is ridiculous as where your Grandparents were born is a pretty obscure link to anything. Frankly, why stop there - if we go back a few dozen generations I'm probably France qualified?

If Koln wants to represent Wales he should go and live and work in the country for a few years - at least that way you are showing some commitment.

He's more loyal to Quins than he is to anything else. His relatives have told me that he's been offered big money to go elsewhere but will stay at Quins because of the faith they showed in him when he was injured. Besides, if he were to live and work in Wales for a few years then he'd be 34 and Wales (probably) wouldn't have an injury crisis in his position, so what would be the point?

There's an equal level of opportunism on both sides here. A player is seeking a chance to cap his career with a few caps when he thought that ship had sailed. A national team is seeking a decent player who can dig them out of a short term hole. Both sides are making full use of the rules. It doesn't, realistically, hurt anyone (except perhaps their opponents). Why not just accept it as a nice moment for a decent bloke, and a boost to Wales' s chances?

Poorfour wrote:

DaveM wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:So living and playing in a country defines your nationality more than your blood relations

Yes, of course it does. Living and playing in a country is a choice. The Grandparent rule is ridiculous as where your Grandparents were born is a pretty obscure link to anything. Frankly, why stop there - if we go back a few dozen generations I'm probably France qualified?

If Koln wants to represent Wales he should go and live and work in the country for a few years - at least that way you are showing some commitment.

He's more loyal to Quins than he is to anything else. His relatives have told me that he's been offered big money to go elsewhere but will stay at Quins because of the faith they showed in him when he was injured. Besides, if he were to live and work in Wales for a few years then he'd be 34 and Wales (probably) wouldn't have an injury crisis in his position, so what would be the point?

There's an equal level of opportunism on both sides here. A player is seeking a chance to cap his career with a few caps when he thought that ship had sailed. A national team is seeking a decent player who can dig them out of a short term hole. Both sides are making full use of the rules. It doesn't, realistically, hurt anyone (except perhaps their opponents). Why not just accept it as a nice moment for a decent bloke, and a boost to Wales' s chances?

Missing four locks is a pretty dire position that no country would have the depth to make light of. Kohn will help us out in some capacity I am sure.

I am not too sure why he has been brought in. We are expecting people to be back for the second/third weekend of the tournament. And we have neamed the likes of Lou Reed who is capped already, and James King, who many wanted to see in there. I would expect King and Reed to be better off playing against the IRish than Kohn purely downt to the fact that they know the rest of the squad, and also know the opposition better.

DaveM wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:So living and playing in a country defines your nationality more than your blood relations

Yes, of course it does. Living and playing in a country is a choice. The Grandparent rule is ridiculous as where your Grandparents were born is a pretty obscure link to anything. Frankly, why stop there - if we go back a few dozen generations I'm probably France qualified?

If Koln wants to represent Wales he should go and live and work in the country for a few years - at least that way you are showing some commitment.

On that principle - can we have Ben Morgan back please after nurturing and training in him for you guys. I and many welshman have absolute respect for Ben Morgan, he learned his trade and developed hus rugby career in Wales but he is an englishman and that is who he should be playing for irrespective of his loyalty to wales and the fact that welsh rugby played a significant part in developing him. Good on you Ben

My considered opinion.

i. If we win and Olly has a good game then this whole grandparent rule thing is fine and should be encouraged. We will all start pronouncing the double 'LL' in his name the same as in 'Llanelli'.

ii. If he plays and is rubbish then the IRB will need to rewrite the rules on eligibility. Country of birth only.

If he plays rubbish we'll just blame Howley as usual - if he has a stormer then Gatland must have given him the nod

A 2nd row of Ian Evans and Olly Kohn would look pretty well balanced, we'd have quite a big tight 5 to go with our relatively lightweight back row.

BlueNote wrote:A 2nd row of Ian Evans and Olly Kohn would look pretty well balanced, we'd have quite a big tight 5 to go with our relatively lightweight back row.

I'd actually like to see that - Huge front 5 and we need a platform - we could push Ireland over the park with this lot IMO:

1 - Adam
2 - Hibbard
3 - James
4 - Kohn
5 - Evans
6 - Shingler
7 - Warburton
8 - Toby

Adam AND James out of position? Wow!

Bless you Guby, at full back you were quite far from the action

Glas a du wrote:

Bless you Guby, at full back you were quite far from the action

You can say that again, coach once told me at half time that with ball in hand I turn like a double decker bus - Wot the feck did he know.!! I was more defence conscious - that was my job then - just leave the trys to the glory boys - Anyways - Adam, Hibbard, James, Geth, you know what I mean butt

Come on Walessssssssssssssssss

Some nice comments below from Vunipolo

"It would be a day of added emotion because a part of me will always be Welsh, even if once the whistle blows it becomes a match like any other. It was in Wales where I started playing seriously at school and we spent six years there with Dad joining Pontypridd after a few years with Pontypool."

RubyGuby wrote:Some nice comments below from Vunipolo

"It would be a day of added emotion because a part of me will always be Welsh, even if once the whistle blows it becomes a match like any other. It was in Wales where I started playing seriously at school and we spent six years there with Dad joining Pontypridd after a few years with Pontypool."

You should post that on the Wales - England bickering thread.

RubyGuby wrote:Some nice comments below from Vunipolo

"It would be a day of added emotion because a part of me will always be Welsh, even if once the whistle blows it becomes a match like any other. It was in Wales where I started playing seriously at school and we spent six years there with Dad joining Pontypridd after a few years with Pontypool."

I am sure its treatable though. My kids spent 7 years in Wales and they dont feel welsh at all....

lostinwales wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:Some nice comments below from Vunipolo

"It would be a day of added emotion because a part of me will always be Welsh, even if once the whistle blows it becomes a match like any other. It was in Wales where I started playing seriously at school and we spent six years there with Dad joining Pontypridd after a few years with Pontypool."

I am sure its treatable though. My kids spent 7 years in Wales and they dont feel welsh at all....

I know a heap of people born and raised here that feel the same sadly

LondonTiger wrote:

Casartelli wrote:Barnes & Morris wouldn't have made the Welsh team, even back then.

Now, if we could have found a Welsh ancestor for Teague, Winterbottom, Richards, Dooley, Moore-o or Leonard things would've looked very different. They'd have smashed down the Severn Bridge tolls in their rush to get over here.

Instead we gave you Rupert Moon and Tony Copsey

I reckon we got the better of that deal.

No wonder then that Wales were utter dross in the early 1990's if first XV rejects such as Copsey and Moon were good enough to play for Wales.

We had far worse than Copsey and Moon after losing so many to RL

lostinwales wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:Some nice comments below from Vunipolo

"It would be a day of added emotion because a part of me will always be Welsh, even if once the whistle blows it becomes a match like any other. It was in Wales where I started playing seriously at school and we spent six years there with Dad joining Pontypridd after a few years with Pontypool."

I am sure its treatable though. My kids spent 7 years in Wales and they dont feel welsh at all....

Certain areas feel like little England to me. Where did you live?

RubyGuby wrote:We had far worse than Copsey and Moon after losing so many to RL

Like some of the players who played for Wales V England in 1991 such as that Welsh backrow of Glen George, Alun Carter and Paul Arnold with a lightweight front row of Brian Williams, Kevin Phillips and Paul Knight to take on a mighty and massive jaggurnaut English pack containing the likes of locks Dooley and Ackford, backrowers Teague, Winterbottom and Richards, frontrowers of Brian Moore, Jeff Probyn and Jason Leonard.

Don't mun, it's too soon!

gboycottnut wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:We had far worse than Copsey and Moon after losing so many to RL

Like some of the players who played for Wales V England in 1991 such as that Welsh backrow of Glen George, Alun Carter and Paul Arnold with a lightweight front row of Brian Williams, Kevin Phillips and Paul Knight to take on a mighty and massive jaggurnaut English pack containing the likes of locks Dooley and Ackford, backrowers Teague, Winterbottom and Richards, frontrowers of Brian Moore, Jeff Probyn and Jason Leonard.

And after giving England all those games I still think were almost even - And you havent even mentioned the Boobyer brothers or Alan Edmunds and Arthur Emyr - 15 years of embarassment

That made the 03 World Cup (although we lost) 05, 08, 09 and 12 all the sweeter.