Juniors and Junior Organisers

In response to a private message I received from a fellow poster on this page and my own recent experiences of Juniors/Junior organisers I was asked to create this topic for debate.

The areas I was specifically asked about in the PM was why do I think there are so few girls taking up the game and what makes a good junior organiser, this last point I would further break down into what makes a good J/O from a junior golfers perspective and what makes a good J/O from a parents stand point.

Briefly my own experience as I'm sure most have seen from another thread anyway, but briefly what happened was my 11year old daughter had to have a playing interview with myself, the clubs J/O and Rules chairman, quite a hugh pressure situation fo a young girl, only to have to hear the J/O complain pre-round about hacking it round with a young girl (I had words) she then proceeded to play a lovely round of golf and scored better gross than the J/O did, this led to him complaining about being beaten by a girl and then in clubhouse he said his opinion was she was years away from being ready for his junior section! Long and short of it, the J/O was relieved of his post by club secretary on the spot after riles chairman played with us, we got a discount on my daughters membership and she came 2nd in her first ever medal last week.

I could go further into detail but as said I've already done this on a previous thread
So felt no need too.

This brings me back to the questions posed.

What makes a good J/O from a juniors perspective: surely its one that encourages the kids, offers support and helps along with the club and club pro to develop their games.

From my perspective as a dad: one that is freely available to discuss any concerns about juniors, one that is actively involved in helping the juniors progress as golfers and as people by setting a good example and one that promotes competition without the need for attitude in defeat. Certainly not what the one we did have was doing!

Then there's the question why are the so few girls in the game: Well I'm not entirely sure myself, maybe its a parents thing not encouraging it, this isn't the case in my house I think its a great sport for my daughter, maybe clubs aren't actively seeking female juniors or maybe J/O's don't know what to do with girl members as they don't generally have them and fear its a hard transition in a male (junior) environment because they aren't permitted in ladies events due to age and feel they may get left out!

I was unaware until recently clubs receive funding for every junior they bring into the club so surely this should be something they actively seek to do.

Either way my daughter is currently the only girl member at our club, but my hope is she continues with her determination to be like her idol Yani Tseng and that the club can get more girls in for her sake and the clubs benefit and that we get a new J/O that fits the criteria.

Can anyone answer these questions for me

Oh and I do have previous experience of J/O's as a) I was a junior once and b) I was the youngest J/O my first club ever had at 21 as no-one else wanted to do it and always made myself available to the kids, parents and set aside time for coaching sessions and rounds of golf with them

Mav,
totally agree that the juniors have to be encouranged more, sat and listened to the old farts at my club(Duddingston) the other day moan that the juniors were taking over the course, it was the school holiday's, when i reminded them that these juniors were tomorrows club lifelines and soon to be full paying members i was met with a snort and a mumbled response, it is these gentlemen which no doubt put others off from joining especially the women/girls with there draconian views, i for one would encourage at least 4 events over the season where juniors and adult members could combine to show that integration is a great and fun way to learn from each other

When I was a Junior (1960's), we were very definitely considered to be second or even third class citizens. We had absolutely zero rights on the course and had to leap out of the way of any full member, whether we were holding them up or not and they would not under any circumstances call us through!

There was only one competition available to us all year - the junior rose bowl (past winner ) and the male members did not in any way have anything to do with it. It was left to the Lady members to organise and officiate at it. The Mens Captain would then drag himself up to the clubhouse very begrudgingly to present the prizes.

There was no Junior Officer, the position had not been thought of at my club, and if it had, no-one would have wanted the position, not even the dork that you encountered Mav. This has now changed I believe, because that club now prides itself on being the 'home' of the McGregor Trophy, the English Boys under 16 Championship. Note the word Boys is in there. There were no girl juniors at that club and the youngest Lady member was probably 60+ even accounting for my tender years at the time.

The club I use now, has a Junior officer, although I have had no contact with him/her, being as how my children are probably older than he/she is. But the club does have a thriving junior section which of course is more evident in the school holidays, no complaints from me as I have never been held up by any of them. As one of the professionals at the club is a member of the Ladies European tour, I would hope that there are some girl juniors as well, although I have to say I have seen no evidence of that. Shame really.

In answer to the question why are there so few girls taking up golf, I think it all comes down to the draconian rules such as women should only play midweek (ie not work for a living) and therefore girls are not given any encouragement to take up the sport, unless they are lucky enough to have wealthy parents who can support them. All women's competitions are held midweek, hardly ever at weekends. And then there is the ridiculous dress code! Young girls want to dress fashionably (like the female pros they see on the TV) but so many of the dragons running ladies' sections are insistent on shorts to the knee, shirts tucked in etc etc. What a load of tosh!

As I have said many times, until those administering women's golf in Britain accept that we are now in the 21st century and relax many of the restrictive rules, then there will be a dearth of potentially good girls taking up the sport. You only have to look at how few young British women are playing on the LET - there are plenty from the rest of Europe where the rules are fewer. We need to look close to home.

Not to get into a dress code discussion again but I think ladyputts comment shoes us yet another example of why it is a poor idea.

I can honestly not remember the last time I saw a woman under 40 playing golf. From the outset clubs should be trying to attract juniors of both sexes. Clubs never seem to have a drive to recruit new juniors and just rely on current members with kids to bring them along. Which must work to some degree but clearly not well enough and certainly not for getting girls to sign up.

If young girls do join a junior section are the separated of? what happens to the girls if there are only two or three of them, do they play with the boys in comps or wait until they can play in the women's medals?

One thing that could be preventing girls joining clubs is the lack of family atmosphere in UK golf clubs. It is very much an old fashioned place where men escape their wife's, or even kids. In the US the clubs are much more family orientated and playing with your wife/husband does not seem out of the norm. You often see whole families just hanging out in the bar or cafe having a meal or a drink.

When I was a junior we had a decent junior organiser, he was neither good nor bad he just did enough. We didn't really see him except for on the day of competition days, but he made sure we had a full calender of comps and he used to ferry us about to junior league matches, we won junior league 2 years in a row but that was more down to having a naturally gifted team than good selection and input from him!

We had no girl juniors though! And he only really did it because both his sons were members.

When I took over at 21 it was because no one wanted to do the role of J/O bit sad really. So I took it on for a year when I was posted in my home town as PTI for 14months. Made sure they had full calender of comps, set up a weekly training program with assistant pro offering Saturday morning workshops that ranged from lessons and drills to rules quizzes as well as a set of challenge matches where juniors got to take on myself and the assistant in a betterball format matchplay, so each week we'd have a different pair take us on.

I even got them to reinstate an old club law where a junior with a single figure handicap could enter full mens competitions and win them. I also used to try and get a game with their fathers to let them know how their kids were doing. But sadly we had no girls either.

Afternoon all! I'm new to these boards having discovered a post on the old 606, I thought I'm come and join in. My first post so go easy on me!

I was shocked to read about the J/O that fully deserved to get his marching orders, appalling behaviour from someone who is supposed to be encouraging the youngsters! I am very interested in this topic having taken over the role of J/O at my club at the beginning of the year. Unfortunately, like the case when Maverick took over as J/O at his club, no one else seemed to want to do it and I felt it was an opportunity for me to put something back into a club which has given me a lot since I joined. I also knew a few of our junior members and wanted to see them progress. I'm still learning the role having been doing the job for only 4 months so am interested to see what people think makes a good J/O. I have been putting my own ideas into practice thus far and hope it is encouraging the juniors we have.

We have just had a new pro join the club who is extremely keen to get an active junior section up and running having built up the junior section at his previous club. His help has been invaluable so far! I had 22 juniors on the membership list at the beginning of they year but it turned out that only 7 of these were active and only 4 of those lads were keen on playing competitve golf (I'm not going to force competition on them if they don't want to, I just want them to enjoy playing the game). This left me without a team for the year save for a 3 man knockout comp and none who really wanted to play junior comps. Since then the club owners have been very supportive in allowing me to organise and Open Day and even offered 3 months free membership to juniors who signed up on the day. We had 41 turn up and 30 of those signed for membership. The pro is running a month of free coaching on Saturday mornings to get them started which I have been assisting with and I will be attending every event planned and will be trying to get the new kids out on the course as soon as I can to get them used to being on the course and to get them handicaps if they want. Some of them have really got into it already and been out on the course with their parents almost everyday over the Easter hols. I hope they continue to enjoy it and the section can carry on growing.

As to the question about girls getting involved I'm not sure why they aren't. I had three sign up on the open who are now attending coaching sessions but no existing junior girl members. I don't know what it is like at other clubs but at my club the Ladies section is very small, maybe the lack of female players combined with the fact the LPGA is getting smaller and less covered by the media over hear means young girls aren't being inspired by seeing great female golf in the media?!

Apologies for the long first post!

PS I look after the lads and lasses on the putting green whilst the pro teaches them the long shots on the range at the coaching sessions, do you have any advice on things I can get them doing whilst on the green now we have covered a lot of the basics?

Sheff wrote: I look after the lads and lasses on the putting green whilst the pro teaches them the long shots on the range at the coaching sessions, do you have any advice on things I can get them doing whilst on the green now we have covered a lot of the basics?

As you have just started as J/O you may find this site of interest:
http://www.juniorgolfguide.org/index.htm

It does include exercises and games.

Thanks for that, very useful.

One that controls the juniors. I have seen so many that cheat and act like spoilt little Poopie bags that when mini-lj comes of age i'll be concerned about letting him mix with some of them.

LJ that cheating and spoilt brat like behaviour is bred into them by their parents inability show control and discipline. But I agree if they behave in that way the J/O has to take control of the situation and even impose bans if needed and make sure their parents know in uncertain terms it will not be tolerated and if happens again they are out. But sadly these days too few parents have control of their kids but that's a whole other debate.

Oh and I thought there'd been a heatwave over here I've just got back and its berrrrluddddy freezing

LJ


Nothing like an inaccurate generalisation is there? Guys like you can often suck the life out the junior section.

As mav points out it is all about the parents, so no doubt your son will turn out as a great well rounded individual. Not.

Will probably be a little brat.

Mac. You have no idea of the juniors i've come across. So how can you make that assessment?

Also. When people take their kids away from a club due to behaviour of the other juniors i think i'm correct in saying theres an issue there

LJ

You never fail to typify the unnecessary daily mail hysteria. Of course some of the juniors fail to enact proper etiquette but so will some people from any age group at the club.

Your sort of view does damage what can be done for the junior section of clubs. Why concentrate on such a negative point, I think we would all rather here your views on the questions at hand.

Those were my views. In the event of parents who allow their kids to become idiots a good j/o is someone who controls their behaviour. Or was that too complex a statement?

Just taken a call from one of the members at the club, informing me he is the clubs newly appointed J/O. Introduced himself politely, informed me he is a now retired PE teacher whose been active in the game for over 35years. He laid out what he expects behaviour wise from the kids at the club and has said he would like to get to know them better so he is arranging a get together where the kids play a scramble event and a buffet afterwards for them and their parents to get to know each other better and asked what I expect from him etc.

Was a thoroughly pleasant and in depth chat, said he will ensure whenever they have comps that he spends the duration of play walking the course between the groups to ensure they are competing fairly and help them with rulings and making sure they are not a nuisance and also to make sure their not being harassed by full members as can be the case. He also said he is looking to put some competitions together where kids get to play with adults to bridge the gap and an annual matchplay between the juniors, male and female full members for a bit of bragging rights and competition to show the full members they belong here.

Sounds like they've got a decent guy in place now and looking forward to meeting him next week when we pop down to for lunch