France v Wales: Build-up and match thread

[Ospreydragon]

First topic message reminder :

A very interesting opening weekend in the 6N. Good wins for Ireland and England, and a great one for Italy, who showed some nice touches and are devloping their play (unlike Wales).

Here's a typically hyperbolic journalist (or sub-editor's headline) in today's Express:

"Rob Howley Planning to Dump Failures"

http://www.sundayexpress.co.uk/posts/view/375256/Rob-Howley-planning-to-dump-failures

Nothing in the article to state who is going to be dumped, and no surprise there.

Will Howley have the cojones to drop some players? Jenkins, Shingler, and one of the centres? We'll see!

[Irishhoneymonster]

by Irishhoneymonster Today at 2:38 am

Congratulations Wales!

Pretty awful game centred around defence and with little attacking invention from either side. But a win's a win and win in Paris is not something to be sniffed at. Good for Wales to stop the rot and gain some confidence and hopefully move quote

Har har. Such a pretty game in Dublin today centred around defence blah blah. Not. We had a great attritional game dogged and gritty. Very proud of the lads. As Bart said EMS!you must be truly gutted. But I was shouting for you musha

I notice for a start that you only quote part of what I said, I also said that this is good for Wales' confidence or something to that effect. I also did not say or imply that the Ireland v England game was going to better attacking wise. I simply made a summation of the France v Wales game as I saw it. Is that ok with you?

No prob for you to be very happy with the win, you should be very happy, as I also said in my post a win in Paris is not to be sniffed at. But if you're very happy with the performance then it does make me wonder. Let's face it Wales didn't create anything apart from a chip over the top that North took very well and scored with. Outside of that there was good defence but no other attacking play. It was the same with France but Wales should be happy with the win and should take confidence from it and move onwards and upwards.

If you're comparing matches then it would be fair to take into account the weather conditions. Having said that even with the conditions I still wasn't happy with Ireland's play. Our kicking was awful and our gathers were poor too. Add to that the fact we couldn't catch a pass in the first half and hold together a sustained period of attack. Sorry but are you just trawling through posts to find a line or 2 that you can disagree with or what? Why not read a whole post and/or put together something that is actually of some worth

[Casartelli]

phillips was our best player! faletau good in open game when wales going well. too light in this kind of game. warbs, jones and tipuric for next match

adam and melon on bench, drop coombs as no power whatsoever

Why drop Adam Jones...???

All the penalties. He's as rusty as Melon. Bring him off the bench in the next two - give him chance to find the old 'mojo' and start him against England.

[glamorganalun]

Having a lightweight second row does affect the scrum for Wales that is why we must get AWJ back into the second row and put Coombes either at 6 or on the bench, I prefer R Jones at 8 and Coombes at 6 and Tipuric at 7. The more power we get the better platform to launch attacks also Tipuric will be even more effective..

[Casartelli]

I think a back row of 6. Warbs, 8. Jones and 7. Tipuric would actually look pretty decent.

He'll stick with Faletau at 8 and Coombs in the 2nd row though. Can't see him changing anything, except maybe Owens to start, as he thinks we're back in the mix now.

This is a big mistake as, one massive shunt of bulk from North aside, we proved to be on a par with the worst French side of the past 30 years.

If we don't try and move it up a level, we won't win again this 6N.

[maestegmafia]

phillips was our best player! faletau good in open game when wales going well. too light in this kind of game. warbs, jones and tipuric for next match

adam and melon on bench, drop coombs as no power whatsoever

Why drop Adam Jones...???

All the penalties. He's as rusty as Melon. Bring him off the bench in the next two - give him chance to find the old 'mojo' and start him against England.

Absolute BS penalties were due to poor pitch inadequate adjudicating. Clancy cant referee a breakdown or a scrum.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

dan delayed a few passes that had come to him from already being delayed by mp. twice to draw in a tackler, but he was looking for people to run on to the pass, often no options outside, centres are really poor, just running at players, one new centre could be all we need.

For the second game in a row, the backs played like strangers. What have they been doing in training?

[Glas a du]

That's how they are told to play.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Yes, they play to a gameplan, but the timing / understanding between Biggar and Roberts in particular was poor. The fact that it's a limited gameplan makes the mistiming of runs and passes worse.

[rainbow-warrior]

Yes, they play to a gameplan, but the timing / understanding between Biggar and Roberts in particular was poor. The fact that it's a limited gameplan makes the mistiming of runs and passes worse.

Get out there and do better then, all you do is criticise.

[Glas a du]

Biggar needs to play the next three games though.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

I agree with that, Glas.

Rainbow, I'm not claiming that I could do better; what I'm saying is that considering they've had a fortnight training together, you'd expect them to have a better understanding. It's not as if we have a load of different set moves.

[Glas a du]

Don't rise to him Lucky. The fact you have an erection where somebody insults you online is disconcerting.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

I thought I'd turned off the webcam!

[rainbow-warrior]

I agree that the first half of the Irish game it was total pants and we all had a right to criticise. Since that we have improved.

I hear North getting slagged off because he is useless. He is far from that, if he does not get the ball on the wing he comes in and carries well and although I have not seen the stats I am sure they will show that. If you do not feed your wings then as you know they don't appear to do bugger all. Habana had a few seasons of this which was shameful.

The try that was scored was pure class from both North and Biggar and all I read is ..it was lucky! Had it been Carter / Jane it would have been the try of the season. Halfpenny plays his guts out for 80 and puts his body on the line countless times in the game. I would go as far as to say he is the best FB in the world at present.....tell me what he has done wrong ....nothing. Phillips for the most of the French game could not have got the ball out any faster, but when he does slow it down he does give the opposition the time to reform. Roberts, yes I have some concerns with his gameplay...North could be a better option to be honest. I was not a forward and not expert enough to pick up on the finer details but Gethin seemed to improve but the turf was crap although for the Welsh that would be an added extra!! I still say the entire team are doing their damnedest for the nation.

I also agree there are still hurdles to get over but I see improvement all the time as well as new players being blooded. Paris was two teams not wanting to lose rather than wanting to win, hence the mistakes and nerves but we won at Paris....we are forever the country of the apathetic sometimes.

As soon as Gatland took the job for the Lions I knew it was 'Henrygate' all over again. Leaving an incompetent like Howley in charge was reckless but more seriously will gatland come back if he shows the door to Welsh lads in the selection of the Lions?

I guess what i am saying is the lads are trying their best. If we have a muppet trying to undo a winning Gatland formula with the power to drop players if they do not obey we find ourselves in the crap. We have a great defence coach who has been crapped on twice, no Lions no Wales coach who would have done a better and more professional job.

[rainbow-warrior]

Don't rise to him Lucky. The fact you have an erection where somebody insults you online is disconcerting.

man sausage

[rainbow-warrior]

Don't rise to him Lucky. The fact you have an erection where somebody insults you online is disconcerting.

man sausage

???? I said c o c k

[mystiroakey]

you just worked out the swear filter RW.. hehe..

It takes ya by suprise- try Cat!! or p u s s y

[Luckless Pedestrian]

I don't see any evidence of Howley changing Gatland's gameplan. We're playing the same brand of rugby as usual, it's just that defences can stand up to our physicality and we have no plan B.

One thing I really liked was the couple of quick pick-and-drives in the build-up to George's try. That's what we should be doing more often, rather than having forwards standing off and taking the ball standing still. Those two pick-and-drives drew in the French defence, and our problem has been that we don't suck in defenders to create space out wide.

[RubyGuby]

Plan B was the chip over that lead to the try. I can't believe the criticism on here. Our team is bereft of confidence and has a numpty for a coach but those backs tackled like the 2008 and 2012 side. We are lightweight in the pack in spite of Coombs's very good performances. The confidence will grow if we continue to get a platform. And this french team isn't as bad as people think they just have no confidence

[mystiroakey]

All you needed was the win to turn the tables-- but whats the point in this win if you dont gain confidence!!

be happy- be very happy.., BE confident!!

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Our defence was excellent - but France were hardly scintillating in attack. France's defence was good, but for the most part we gave them what they were expecting.

A win in Paris is a hell of an achievement and it was a hard-fought victory; but I still think that we don't make best use of the ball when we have it. That's my complaint and I think it's valid.

[mystiroakey]

Oddly enough as an england fan i feel abit meeeh with that win in dublin as well..

Yes i expected to much.. but heh its the first win there in 10 years..

Wales you beat france in paris!! first win in 9!!

I cant helping feeling meeeeh for my no.1 team and my no.2(wales) team tbh..

[Luckless Pedestrian]

England are looking very strong, Mysti. Not many weaknesses and a handy bench, too.

[whocares]

good summary RubyGuby. Welsh performance seems underrated and thought their defense was very good, neutralising the few breaks from Picamoles and Bastareaud (good tackling to prevent them to offload) and slowing the ball pretty well in the rucks. Despite being useless in attack, France were still better than against Italy.

[Morgannwg]

I think some people need to realise that Wales went there and intended to play like that. And the stats/result show that it was the correct thing to do. Another thing I don't get is the Coombes bashing. He's been outstanding for somebody who now has just two caps, yet when things go wrong for Wales Coombesy gets the blame . I gaurantee that if it had always beem James King in his position all the bashers would be sucking him off.

[Casartelli]

phillips was our best player! faletau good in open game when wales going well. too light in this kind of game. warbs, jones and tipuric for next match

adam and melon on bench, drop coombs as no power whatsoever

Why drop Adam Jones...???

All the penalties. He's as rusty as Melon. Bring him off the bench in the next two - give him chance to find the old 'mojo' and start him against England.

Absolute BS penalties were due to poor pitch inadequate adjudicating. Clancy cant referee a breakdown or a scrum.

Maybe, but that excuse doesn't count for anything when you're in the middle of a game. You have to find a way around it - and a fully fit and on form Adam J always does - or concede points. England had an absolute tuning off the Irish front row in two scrums, then made the adjustments and corrected it.

Pitch was bad, but the others were standing on the same bit of grass.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

Ive seen Wales play better and not win in the last year. The same could even be said of Scotland, and certainly England.
But winning ugly counts, so well done chaps.

[Impossible Standards]

Why should Coombes be dropped when he is leading some of the stats!!! AWJ on the bench as he has only had 20 mins of rugby. People who say ryan jones is a better ball carrier than faletau... Ryan Jones is better at 6. I honestly think people don't watch these games...

[Jimpy]

Ive seen Wales play better and not win in the last year. The same could even be said of Scotland, and certainly England.
But winning ugly counts, so well done chaps.

Something that England were often berrated for doing by (mainly) the Welsh. Ironically.

[Morgannwg]

Against a big French team in Paris, I don't think there is any other way you can play. I expect a similar game when England come to Cardiff.

[Jimpy]

Adapting team tactics to suit each match is something Wales have failed to do convincingly for a little under a year. It remains to be seen if this is the start of a recovery. Italy will be tough to beat in Rome.

[Casartelli]

Against a big French team in Paris, I don't think there is any other way you can play. I expect a similar game when England come to Cardiff.

Ireland smashed us first half when we tried going toe-to-toe with them.

What would you do if you were Howley?

Change tactics, change a few players around, or 'trust the system' and keep your fingers crossed???

[mystiroakey]

I can see a good welsh win v italy- This is the perfect game for them in truth after a win- but perhaps a slightly flaky one..

They have a good challenge but not a seriously tough one.. Then they have scotland -then england.

gotta be honest - wales have the perfect run out, each game getting harder

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

teams make it hard for themsleves when they play italy. Wales have had their moments there in recent years but Italy really gave the impression of a team that felt theyd done their job for the year already this weekend. if they carry that attitude back home Wales have nothing to fear. They have the better players and are now beginning to get some shape back following the injury ravaging.
If wales turn up with the level of commitment they showed in this game they have nothing to fear in Italy. Scotland on the other hand....

[Comfort]

Thats the same way Wales have tried to play against France since 2009.

Im unbelieveably happy with the win. With Italy and then Scotland up next, 2 more games and victories could see us trying to ruin Englands grand slam party....

Joking aside Im genuinely happy with the victory, as PSW Wales have played infinitely better than that over the last 9 games and come away with a loss.

Defence was solid, Biggar was excellant (a couple of kicks from hand aside), centres were cumbersome, although Roberts passed the ball (off his left hand im sure too)and JD2 didnt throw anything into touch. Not great, but a step in the right direction from last week.

North went looking for work and finished superbly.

Ryan Jones keeps his place at 6 and the captains armband for the rest of the 6ns as far as I'm concerned, thats leadership in time of need. Gethin will get better with each game (although he shouldnt be playing to gain fitness at this level) and Owens did well at lineout time with Evans still on the pitch.

Coombes again performed admirably but I still feels he's lacking a bit of dynamism/physicality for the way he plays at this level. And he's a 6 imo.
That said, I'd start him against Italy alongside Ian Evans with AWJ on the bench to come on and get some gametime. With Gethin being so rusty we need some beef behind him in the scrum, Coombes has been poor there but hes not a natural second row and you cant fault his effort. The sooner AWJ can come back in the better, but I would ease Coombes out to the bench over the next game or so dependant on performances, he's performed well in the circumstances but he was only ever going to be a stop gap for better, injured players, lets not lose sight of that.

I'd keep the same backrow with Warburton on the bench (with Jones/Warbs/Tips/Faletau/Coombes on the pitch/bench we can cover the backrow nicely).

A scrappy game, but Wales did was was needed at the right times, something we haven't been able to do (or even identify recently) which was good.

Although, we could have just been less crap than France......

[Jimpy]

Thats the same way Wales have tried to play against France since 2009.

Im unbelieveably happy with the win. With Italy and then Scotland up next, 2 more games and victories could see us trying to ruin Englands grand slam party....

Joking aside Im genuinely happy with the victory, as PSW Wales have played infinitely better than that over the last 9 games and come away with a loss.

Defence was solid, Biggar was excellant (a couple of kicks from hand aside), centres were cumbersome, although Roberts passed the ball (off his left hand im sure too)and JD2 didnt throw anything into touch. Not great, but a step in the right direction from last week.

North went looking for work and finished superbly.

Ryan Jones keeps his place at 6 and the captains armband for the rest of the 6ns as far as I'm concerned, thats leadership in time of need. Gethin will get better with each game (although he shouldnt be playing to gain fitness at this level) and Owens did well at lineout time with Evans still on the pitch.

Coombes again performed admirably but I still feels he's lacking a bit of dynamism/physicality for the way he plays at this level. And he's a 6 imo.
That said, I'd start him against Italy alongside Ian Evans with AWJ on the bench to come on and get some gametime. With Gethin being so rusty we need some beef behind him in the scrum, Coombes has been poor there but hes not a natural second row and you cant fault his effort. The sooner AWJ can come back in the better, but I would ease Coombes out to the bench over the next game or so dependant on performances, he's performed well in the circumstances but he was only ever going to be a stop gap for better, injured players, lets not lose sight of that.

I'd keep the same backrow with Warburton on the bench (with Jones/Warbs/Tips/Faletau/Coombes on the pitch/bench we can cover the backrow nicely).

A scrappy game, but Wales did was was needed at the right times, something we haven't been able to do (or even identify recently) which was good.

Although, we could have just been less crap than France......

In summary, yes.

[maestegmafia]

Tough game to take anything from with regards performance as Clancy, as per usual, ruined the match with his frequent and inconsistent adjudication.

The players were getting very frustrated with him. At one point I feared Parra was about to tell Clancy what he thought of his knowledge of the scrum. He said something that went in broadcast and as the camera panned back you could see Dausitoir and Ryan jones laughing at the scenario.

The six nations can not be refereed by guys like Clancy or Garces. They are not up to standard. The competition is far too big to be further ruined by these incompetent men with whistles.

[Dontheman]

by Irishhoneymonster Today at 2:38 am

Congratulations Wales!

Pretty awful game centred around defence and with little attacking invention from either side. But a win's a win and win in Paris is not something to be sniffed at. Good for Wales to stop the rot and gain some confidence and hopefully move quote

Har har. Such a pretty game in Dublin today centred around defence blah blah. Not. We had a great attritional game dogged and gritty. Very proud of the lads. As Bart said EMS!you must be truly gutted. But I was shouting for you musha

I notice for a start that you only quote part of what I said, I also said that this is good for Wales' confidence or something to that effect. I also did not say or imply that the Ireland v England game was going to better attacking wise. I simply made a summation of the France v Wales game as I saw it. Is that ok with you?

No prob for you to be very happy with the win, you should be very happy, as I also said in my post a win in Paris is not to be sniffed at. But if you're very happy with the performance then it does make me wonder. Let's face it Wales didn't create anything apart from a chip over the top that North took very well and scored with. Outside of that there was good defence but no other attacking play. It was the same with France but Wales should be happy with the win and should take confidence from it and move onwards and upwards.

If you're comparing matches then it would be fair to take into account the weather conditions. Having said that even with the conditions I still wasn't happy with Ireland's play. Our kicking was awful and our gathers were poor too. Add to that the fact we couldn't catch a pass in the first half and hold together a sustained period of attack. Sorry but are you just trawling through posts to find a line or 2 that you can disagree with or what? Why not read a whole post and/or put together something that is actually of some worth

The problem for me with you and others is the way you seem to write off the game as spectacle. Fair enough you are at best a neutral and I guess it might have seemed awful to you. Would you care to elucidate? But to the Welsh the win was everything and therefore the whole game was gripping in the context of our run of form and a historic win in Paris against the onetime favourites. So if you want to pinch your nose fair enough play it as you see it. And if I find that damning with faint praise then I reckon that's my prerogative to complain. The whole thing is called I think banter in some kind of rugby fellowship so get off your high horse please

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