This is one SA should definitely win!

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-sports/8264138/Botha-mocks-SBW-ahead-of-heavyweight-bout

Have to say I agree with this though in thinking about it more this is all about money, personalities rather than boxing. The pay per views etc and Botha would probably do better to take the fall and some money on the side as a next bout with SBW after combining his own obvious draw power with defeating someone who's tussled with Tyson, Lewis and the like would probably be worth 'more of our money'

Someones just playing with us and it just goes to show that boxings not a real sport at some levels. Why didnt Sonny Bill express an aim to win Olympic glory?

-Cos it aint worth the buks
-Cos he'd get pummeled by 'real' boxers

Not that Botha isnt one. he looks the real McCoy and for the sports sake, hope he nails the SBW sideshow once and for all so he can get on with what hes really good at...

SBW and Nasser aren't stupid. They must believe that Sonny has a good chance against Botha otherwise they wouldn't have booked the fight

Maybe, but they are greedy, and hes fought nobody's until now even though todays fighters all seem to want to do the Rocky VI, VII and VIII thing...so maybe theyve looked for a name that no longer has the game...

Botha is 44 and has lost to every half decent fighter he came up against. He looks like a tailor made opponent for SBW - his appearances in the ring with Tyson, Lewis, Klitschko and a 78 year old Holyfield give him a sheen of respectability - but really he is an old, fat has been.

ps I would lover Botha to win.
pps Did you see that Quade Cooper is on the undercard?

LondonTiger wrote:Botha is 44 and has lost to every half decent fighter he came up against. He looks like a tailor made opponent for SBW - his appearances in the ring with Tyson, Lewis, Klitschko and a 78 year old Holyfield give him a sheen of respectability - but really he is an old, fat has been.

ps I would lover Botha to win.
pps Did you see that Quade Cooper is on the undercard?

Yeah he SBW and Mundine are in the same circle- they all think they can box when only one can.
Explains why Coopers been having jabs at McCaw- hes in training. Luckily tackling is not a required boxing skill and dodging them is.

Does anyone know if this is being shown live. I would love to see SBW catch a hiding. Yes I am bitter and twisted but at least I am self aware

Give SBW some credit... His last fight which he lost on points in September was against a guy who is a top 10 rated boxer so he's not all bad it seems.

Botha would have slapped him silly all day if he wasn't 44. Have no idea on who will win but Botha doesn't seem to be weak/glassjawed and SBW has always fought journeymen from what I've read.

Could be nasty though.

Sure enough...

Boxing at this level confirmed a farce...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-sports/8282616/Asterisk-on-Sonny-Bills-shortened-victory

Imagine how many rugby matches would be different if shortened by 10- 15 minutes at some point in the second half.

Like the drugs fiasco in Oz, match fixing is well and truly alive. In both cases the win is more important outside the ring than in it.

Someimes I long for the days when our All Blacks had farms or 9-5 jobs and when they got together as All Blacks you KNEW nothing other than winning and playing for country was number one.

Now these guys are so distanced from the average Joe its them and us. The money makers and the money givers.

Put him in with Oleandor Solis, A proper Chinny Tub of Lard.

haters gonna hate. SBW beats Botha. SBW is superior!

Sbw really should have been ashamed of himself but his shameless self promotion would indicate that he hasn't the class required.

Does it get more embarrassing?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-sports/8283003/TAB-refunds-round-bets-for-Sonny-Bill-bout

Not even the judges knew it was 10 rounds and the 3rd shortened fight as well? I hope sky pay per views are going to be refunded as well.

" Williams' manager Khoder Nasser hinted that they cut it short after the big South African delivered several blows to the back of his client's head.

NZ TAB head bookmaker Mark Stafford said his agency was stung by the early end to the fight.

Stafford was unimpressed, saying it was the third time the TAB had been caught out by a Williams fight which didn't go the full distance.

Twice before, Williams had scheduled eight-round fights but they had stopped at six.

"So we were a lot more diligent this time and we didn't want to get caught out," Stafford told Radio Sport.

"It's not really about the money figure. People are brassed off.

"I don't know how it has happened, why it has happened. When they said '10th and final round' we all just looked at each other and said 'what is going on here?'"

The Australian newspaper reported that Australian National Boxing Federation vice-president Alan Moore, a ringside judge for the bout, had no idea it had been shortened to 10 rounds.

"When the ring announcer said over the loud speaker that it was the last round, that was the first we (judges) knew of any change," Moore was quoted as saying.

"Any international title fight is meant to be fought over 12 three-minute rounds. I have no idea what happened."

New Zealand heavyweight champion Williams, 27, pronounced himself satisfied with his sixth win from six professional fights but wouldn't be pressed on his future in boxing."

I read this on the news a little while ago. Boxing makes cycling look honest.
Funny stuff, though.

This was last nights fight doc. Yeah it seems theres 2 schools of sport these days. Those that watch it and those that 'play it, rig it, make moolah from it'

At some point the fans will strike back because thats where the money comes from. Theyve yet to name the Oz sports folk involved in the drug taking/ fixing bizo but I've certainly no sympathy for those who are involved.

Sounds huge...

Agree, the Aussie thing appears to be the tip of a big ugly iceberg. That actually hit the headlines in the US media. Seems the entire sporting world is on edge about PEDs, in large measure because of Lance Armstrong. And sports where people were given a wink and a nod for a long time, are coming under the microscope. League in Oz has long been thought of, at least in the sports medical community, as one of those sports where it might be commonplace. Of course the investigations will prove or disprove that.

If these investigations are really followed to the end, which I doubt, a lot of sports are going to be damaged.

So being in or around the medical field have you seen first hand the 'improvements' these things make- ie taken 2 hours before a match (one of the reported incidents) i.e.- quicker recovery etc. What do they actually do in terms of % improvement levels.

Like someones already said some of the NH players do look like theyve been on something theyre so built, even when theyre AB equivalent looks nothing like them- Mccaw, messam, Whitlock etc none of them built like brick s(^thouses

dragonbreath wrote:Does anyone know if this is being shown live. I would love to see SBW catch a hiding. Yes I am bitter and twisted but at least I am self aware

Sorry dragonbreath but you'l have to wait till next time...

ShahenshahG wrote:Sbw really should have been ashamed of himself but his shameless self promotion would indicate that he hasn't the class required.

Good enough promotion though to get your pay to view bout broadcast liove across New Zealand, Australia and South Africa. why be ashamed of self promotion that makes you a lot of money?

By the way I saw the Quade Cooper fight this afternoon, he went a lot better than I thought he would.

aucklandlaurie wrote:

ShahenshahG wrote:Sbw really should have been ashamed of himself but his shameless self promotion would indicate that he hasn't the class required.

Good enough promotion though to get your pay to view bout broadcast liove across New Zealand, Australia and South Africa. why be ashamed of self promotion that makes you a lot of money?

Watched it on youtube only because of the controversy. Otherwise would have given it a miss.

Taylorman wrote:So being in or around the medical field have you seen first hand the 'improvements' these things make- ie taken 2 hours before a match (one of the reported incidents) i.e.- quicker recovery etc. What do they actually do in terms of % improvement levels.

Like someones already said some of the NH players do look like theyve been on something theyre so built, even when theyre AB equivalent looks nothing like them- Mccaw, messam, Whitlock etc none of them built like brick s(^thouses

I have absolutely seen directly the benefits certain ingredients can make to performance. And also the longer term detrimental effects. In one case a few years ago, I refused to treat an athlete because he was using and would not promise to stop. There were a lot of other docs who were ready to pick him up.

These drugs and supplements (most of the supplements are phony or potentially dangerous), have a big impact on performance. The anabolic steroids build muscle mass quickly when accompanied by vigorous exercise. Performance levels have been documented to increase significantly. It only takes a few percentage point improvements in performance to change a player from good to better. Raw strength can certainly increase by up to 25% in extreme cases for the larger muscle groups. This is huge. HGH speeds recovery by enhancing the body's ability for cell regeneration. Steroids and HGH are longer term prospects. And both, but especially anabolic steroids, can cause serious long term health problems.

The drugs which enhance performance just before matches are mostly forms of stimulants. Not sure how well known this is, but caffeine is a banned ingredient at the Olympics. So no Starbucks, Costa, or any coffee at the Olympics. Not even decaf, which still contains trace amounts of caffeine which can cause athletes to test positive and be banned.

I am worried that athletes who are true 'gym rats' might get tarred with the steroid taking brush. I don't hear so much about Rugby players using or taking. Either in the NH or SH. As I mentioned, there is much more gossip about League, but it is important to let the proper investigations take their course. Reputations and careers are at stake. Any accusation better be right.

Mate, this is such a huge subject. I do think it is ironic that a lot of the emphasis is now stemming from Lance Armstrong. He is a celebrity and when they get caught, things start to happen. But cycling has been reportedly the dirtiest sport by a mile, so his coming clean is almost funny.

Boxing, like cycling, has long since been a bit of a joke, fights like this just make the joke funnier. There’s just something hilarious about watching fat blokes fight – a bit like watching props running with the ball (or Visser tackle). I’m assuming Sonny B is just in it for the cash – and why not? – there’s certainly no kudos in it.

big kudos to SBW. It transpires that Botha was taking banned substances. A drugs cheat. Yet Sonny still triumphs.

an appetite suppressant rather than steds. Still a cheat but hardly a commendation for sbw

dallym wrote:big kudos to SBW. It transpires that Botha was taking banned substances. A drugs cheat. Yet Sonny still triumphs.

Just gets worse doesnt it.
In a weekend in Oz that is highlighted by both drug taking and match fixing they put on an event that does both in the same event.

Couldnr have been scripted better,

Lost all respect for sbws boxing antics.

He himself was qouting 12 rounds at the weigh in then afterwards says they were always targetting the 10.

- the judges didnt know
- the fight was advertised as 12 pay per view
- the bookies listed 12 and have paid bets back
- its the 3rd time a sbw fight has been shortened
- botha never knew it was 10 himself

And worst of all, they said it was immediately ater the fight started that they changed it to 10?

Why on earth would you do that at that point. Makes no sense whatsoever. And doesnt match sbws 'always gonna be 10' comments.

Boxing has lost all credibility with this fight and sbw...sorry...you look like an egg.

Geez...just what I suggested in the OP before the fight...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-sports/8298278/SBWs-manager-scoffs-at-bribe-allegation

"The pay per views etc and Botha would probably do better to take the fall and some money on the side as a next bout with SBW after combining his own obvious draw power with defeating someone who's tussled with Tyson, Lewis and the like would probably be worth 'more of our money'"

I'm in the wrong game I think...

This whole thing is becoming a joke. Its like comedy night, just every night.

Taylorman wrote:Like someones already said some of the NH players do look like theyve been on something theyre so built, even when theyre AB equivalent looks nothing like them- Mccaw, messam, Whitlock etc none of them built like brick s(^thouses

Why do people assume that steroids (and bulked up players) are the only drugs used to enhance performance?

The last thing you need to win the Tour de France is muscle bulk - as getting over those hills gets progressively harder the bigger you are. Drugs that allow you to train super hard and recover quicker would be of huge benefit in rugby and would leave you rather lean looking.

doctor_grey wrote:

Taylorman wrote:So being in or around the medical field have you seen first hand the 'improvements' these things make- ie taken 2 hours before a match (one of the reported incidents) i.e.- quicker recovery etc. What do they actually do in terms of % improvement levels.

Like someones already said some of the NH players do look like theyve been on something theyre so built, even when theyre AB equivalent looks nothing like them- Mccaw, messam, Whitlock etc none of them built like brick s(^thouses

I have absolutely seen directly the benefits certain ingredients can make to performance. And also the longer term detrimental effects. In one case a few years ago, I refused to treat an athlete because he was using and would not promise to stop. There were a lot of other docs who were ready to pick him up.

These drugs and supplements (most of the supplements are phony or potentially dangerous), have a big impact on performance. The anabolic steroids build muscle mass quickly when accompanied by vigorous exercise. Performance levels have been documented to increase significantly. It only takes a few percentage point improvements in performance to change a player from good to better. Raw strength can certainly increase by up to 25% in extreme cases for the larger muscle groups. This is huge. HGH speeds recovery by enhancing the body's ability for cell regeneration. Steroids and HGH are longer term prospects. And both, but especially anabolic steroids, can cause serious long term health problems.

The drugs which enhance performance just before matches are mostly forms of stimulants. Not sure how well known this is, but caffeine is a banned ingredient at the Olympics. So no Starbucks, Costa, or any coffee at the Olympics. Not even decaf, which still contains trace amounts of caffeine which can cause athletes to test positive and be banned.

I am worried that athletes who are true 'gym rats' might get tarred with the steroid taking brush. I don't hear so much about Rugby players using or taking. Either in the NH or SH. As I mentioned, there is much more gossip about League, but it is important to let the proper investigations take their course. Reputations and careers are at stake. Any accusation better be right.

Mate, this is such a huge subject. I do think it is ironic that a lot of the emphasis is now stemming from Lance Armstrong. He is a celebrity and when they get caught, things start to happen. But cycling has been reportedly the dirtiest sport by a mile, so his coming clean is almost funny.

My wife is a GP and had one prat on anabolic steroids come to see her. She pointed out all the negative side affects, and his view was "You're a GP, you don't know anything about steroids because you don't use them. Me and my mates [sic] have been using them for years and they're fine." You just can't win when people are willing ignoring good sense to get what they want.

Not sure that you can say cycling has been reportedly the dirties sport by a mile, when others still have and in some cases have historically had the same level of co-ordinated doping. Most sports reliant on pure endurance or strength have at the very least had similar rumours around, it's just that cycling was the first to have a major scandal in the post doping-is-acceptable era (don't forget it was not prohibited until the late 60s and wasn't really taken seriously by anyone until the 90s). There are known national level doping programmes from the 70s and 80s and rumoured to be others, and cycling has never gone to the extreme of doping children from the age of 10 as happened in the East German doping system. Okay that's a national rather than sport divide, but there were certain sports dominated by the soviet bloc during that era...

Anyway, in reference to performance you can use steroids to promote muscle growth, but by far and away the best performance enhancement will still come from blood doping - even in rugby. Having the muscles to provide a burst of power is one thing, but you still need the oxygen supply to recover and go on the next burst. In terms of % benefit of blood doping allowed Armstrong to maintain a power ouput about 20% higher than recent winners. The average in the peloton in those days was about 10% higher than recent winners - which tells you just how widespread EPO/transfusion usage was. It's also why I think it is a much cleaner sport now.

Did anyone else see Cooper's fight? I hope he quits now before he is seriously injured.

I did, and I thought his (Quade's) hand speed was ok. He got caught once around the 1:25 mark but got out of it and finished well. For sure Dunnett's no Ali, but maybe Quade can have that as a 2nd career, though not against anyone ranked please!! I think he's just a bloke trying out a few sports, hot headed maybe, and boxing may help him calm down on the field, specially if he loses a few, but not get injured.

SBW's fight though I would like to see, I think he may find it harder in the heavy weights than Quade's weights. Though SBW's fight a bit tained by the bribe to throw it row

LondonTiger wrote:

Taylorman wrote:Like someones already said some of the NH players do look like theyve been on something theyre so built, even when theyre AB equivalent looks nothing like them- Mccaw, messam, Whitlock etc none of them built like brick s(^thouses

Why do people assume that steroids (and bulked up players) are the only drugs used to enhance performance?

The last thing you need to win the Tour de France is muscle bulk - as getting over those hills gets progressively harder the bigger you are. Drugs that allow you to train super hard and recover quicker would be of huge benefit in rugby and would leave you rather lean looking.

Improved recovery time and greater stamina would be the most useful thing on a rugby pitch I reckon.

I have often wondered, especially with all these cycling/business in Spain currently, do the people in charge of these sports actually want to catch people in the act so the speak? Probabaly not. The damage to a 'brand' would be huge. I can imagine the player might just 'be injured in training' if they were caught so they couldnt appear for a litle while. Far better to just catch and ban minor low level players to show that something is being done. All a bit conspiracy I know.

Look at tennis. With the length of the matches the top men play the sort of concoctions used in cycling would seem ideal. Yet Novak Djokovic was tested once last year.

Sports are so terrified of the publicity they would face, that they seem to prefer to make a show of testing rather than really look to root out problems.

LondonTiger wrote:

Taylorman wrote:Like someones already said some of the NH players do look like theyve been on something theyre so built, even when theyre AB equivalent looks nothing like them- Mccaw, messam, Whitlock etc none of them built like brick s(^thouses

Why do people assume that steroids (and bulked up players) are the only drugs used to enhance performance?

The last thing you need to win the Tour de France is muscle bulk - as getting over those hills gets progressively harder the bigger you are. Drugs that allow you to train super hard and recover quicker would be of huge benefit in rugby and would leave you rather lean looking.

Its kind of my point. Spies is another. Theres all these beefcakes running around and quite frankly they cant actually play well.

Oh Spies has slimmed down heaps, and he was also ill as well wasn't he? Could be why he's not such an impact player now