Duke Mckenzie - Bonafide Brit great... or... Alphabet abuser ???

Britain's forgotten Man................

Three weight world champ.....Not sure any Brit apart from Fitz has ever achieved this.....Fairplay to him!! and also considered Don Curry to be his favorite fighter...So I like him..

However noticed he lost to the underrated Mcauley.....and beat an aging run of the mill Gaby Canizales for his third title.....

Part of me suggests he's a bit of an alphabet abuser...However the Curry thing makes me feel he's really a bonafide great!!

Will submit that I'm not the greatest Mckenzie expert.......

Any thoughts most welcome???????????????

Very good fighter, and possibly underrated I think, in part due to his questionable showings as a commentator / pundit (not dissimilar to Jim Watt, in that respect).

Depends what you class as 'great' in the British scheme of things, I guess. Difficult to decipher who goes where, but I reckon Duke would make my top thirty-odd Brits of all time (for argument's sake, let's say somewhere between thirty-five and forty), which isn't bad going by anyone's standards.

Not sure I'd call him a British great, but a British very, very good at least.

Having seen a few of his fights, I tend to think that McKenzie had a good skill threshold and genuine, natural ability, but was lacking between the ears a bit and wasn't ring smart or savvy at all. My memory may be playing tricks on me, so correct me if it is, but I do seem to recall his fight against Del Valle in which he was buzzed almost immediately and then, bizarrely, proceeded to try and brawl his way out of danger and go toe to toe with his challenger, eventually getting stopped inside the first round.

Still, regardless of era, you don't pick up so many European titles and World straps without having something about you and there are some impressive wins on Duke's ledger, Benavides and Soto in particular, as well as the respected Gaby.

You not think three world titles when there were just four about....

Forces him into the great category...

After all who else has three belts at three different weights..

He's a hard case to place..you're right.

Maybe Truss, but he was never the top man in any of those divisions and, as far as I know, never faced a man who was regarded as the top dog in any weight class or a tip-top pound for pound operator, either.

I suppose that anyone who'd make my pound for pound top forty across all nations would be described as an all-time great, however, so judging by a similar rule you could argue that McKenzie was a great of these Isles, too. Open to interpretation, really.

Iran Barkley and Koki Kameda are triple weight belt holders who don't, by any stretch, fall into the great category. Cotto, another triple weight "champion", is better than all of them, McKenzie included, and he's no great either. Agree with Chris about McKenzie being somewhere between 35 and 40 from the UK. Anyone who saw him being starched in one in defence of one of his titles or being easily outpointed by McAuley would know that he had his limitations.

I was talking about British great.....

I concede he's nothing on the ATG list..as isn't Barkley.

Well considering the likes of Barry McGuigan have been inducted in to the International Hall of Fame on the basis of wins over 2 very past it fighters in Laporte and Pedrosa, I can see an argument for making Duke a higher regarded British great. Our 2nd 3 weight world champion who beat some decent opposition to get his titles and showed character to comeback from adversity to excel to the the levels he did.

I do agree he is an absolutely shocking pundit though.

Suppose you could have the same title for this Truss:

Manny Paquiao - Bonafide World Great or Alphabet Abuser?

Its interesting, but to win World Titles you have to have some element of skill about you.

Surely?

I dont have different criteria for British fighters, a great is a great regardless of nationality. Froch I wouldn't call a British great because he's not a great fighter.