Warren Gatland will limit the number of English players in his Lions squad

If this headline is true then Gatland should be sacked as he has shown himself unfit for the job. Players should be picked on form irrespective of country.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/britishandirishlionsrugby/9865151/Warren-Gatland-will-limit-the-number-of-English-players-in-his-Lions-squad-to-avoid-pressure.html

Woooooooooah

WTF is he doing?

The troubles we had at the last RWC with the media are well documented.

They're also old hat. They happened under a previous regime.

If he cannot recognise the shift under Lancaster he is not a perceptive person and his entire judgment needs to be questioned.

"The media are not nice to England so im going to limit their numbers"

What?!

I hope this is all being misquoted.

Very odd.

While Gatland emphasised that he would select the best players for his Lions squad, he said he had to be aware that potential issues could arise.


Gatland also said that the media circus which surrounded the England side during the 2011 World Cup influenced his desire to limit the number of English players in the Lions Squad.

He said: "If they do well in the Six Nations, there will be a reasonable contingent of English players. But that brings a certain element of — how do I say it — other pressures that come with selecting a lot of English players.

"It becomes a much greater media focus from the English papers; potentially a negative focus from the Australian papers. And English players are targeted by other countries.

I think that's fair enough if I'm honest. Some of the English players behaved like hooligans at the RWC, and I'm not going to criticize them for going to a midget throwing bar, it's not as if they arranged the night, they simply attended the pub. By all means have a laugh, let your hair down and drink a few pints.

I'm talking about Ashton being rude to Hotel workers and Tuilagi jumping off boats. That sort of behaviour is not worthy of England Rugby Players or The Lions.

However credit to Lancaster and probably Robshaw, the England players seem to be keeping their noses clean. Gatland should take note of these calming influences and not let the behaviour of a few bad apples spoil the whole bunch.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

While Gatland emphasised that he would select the best players for his Lions squad, he said he had to be aware that potential issues could arise.


Gatland also said that the media circus which surrounded the England side during the 2011 World Cup influenced his desire to limit the number of English players in the Lions Squad.

He said: "If they do well in the Six Nations, there will be a reasonable contingent of English players. But that brings a certain element of — how do I say it — other pressures that come with selecting a lot of English players.

"It becomes a much greater media focus from the English papers; potentially a negative focus from the Australian papers. And English players are targeted by other countries.

I think that's fair enough if I'm honest. Some of the English players behaved like hooligans at the RWC, and I'm not going to criticize them for going to a midget throwing bar, it's not as if they arranged the night, they simply attended the pub. By all means have a laugh, let your hair down and drink a few pints.

I'm talking about Ashton being rude to Hotel workers and Tuilagi jumping off boats. That sort of behaviour is not worthy of England Rugby Players or The Lions.

However credit to Lancaster and probably Robshaw, the England players seem to be keeping their noses clean. Gatland should take note of these calming influences and not let the behaviour of a few bad apples spoil the whole bunch.

Thats just nonsence Radge..... it was Dwarf, not midget, throwing they were involved in. Lets stick to the facts here please.

Is there a difference?

in my best Gimli from lord of the rings voice : "Nobody tosses a Dwarf!"

I almost hope he leaves out players who are injury prone and could do with some rest and rehabilitation. Some (or all) of Corbs, Lawes, Croft, Wood, Flood. And maybe Cole (if Healy travels) since we don't want Healy to suffer a flashback and stamp on his own team mate

Ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous.

The players that embarrassed themselves at the World Cup should be judged as individuals, not the country as a whole. What about the likes of Phillips and Powell who have also disgraced themselves during international duty?

Gatland's been an absolute idiot stating this- there's probably now going to be a division between the England players and the rest of the squad over the summer.

Very odd thing to say. Surely we want the best players for the team, no matter where they come from.

I presume this means he is just sticking by his earlier comment that he wasnt taking Robshaw.

bluestonevedder wrote:Gatland's been an absolute idiot stating this- there's probably now going to be a division between the England players and the rest of the squad over the summer.

Well actually if he sticks to his plan of not picking English players there shouldn't be too much of an issue....

If Gatland is worried about the media following players then why is he coaching Wales... (powell, henson, phillips etc etc...) the mother of all goldfish bowls!!!

Players should be there on merit. At the moment the English pack is a bit powder puff and the backs lack creativity, he's just using the media to as an excuse!

I hadn't seen this article and just wrote a post about English Lions in another thread:

https://www.606v2.com/t40505p100-your-lions-23-after-round-2-of-the-6-nations#1853993

This could kill the Lions off if true.

I had my doubts about Gatland getting the job anyway, this seems to confirm what I feared.

ermmmm?? Can't think what he would hope to achieve by saying this even if he actually thought it????

...and so potentially pick inferior players.

I guess this gives him justification to still select some of the out of form Welsh players he supposedly prefers.

Let's not over react to this article. Certain players (Heartly, Ashton and Tuilagi) haven't helped themselves by behaving like prats on more than one occasion.

You can't whinge about this since when Gatland took the job he said he wasn't just looking for good players but "good blokes" too.

This sort of comment shouldn't come as a surprise. Out of the 3 English players I listed I would only have Ashton tour anyway. Tuilagi has been injured a lot recently and Heartly is a bit behind Youngs, Hibbard, Ford and Best anyway.

I would be massively disapointed not to see Robshaw, Cole, Wood, Ben Youngs, Farrell, Twelvetrees and Parling not tour.

That’s what I feared!

His going to do it, his going to pick a majority of welsh players to try and beat Aus again.

Stubborn Kiwi.

Now you know what it's like to have to listen to your coach sputter complete random odd statements.

Go Warren - I said a long time ago that if you take each letter of his name then the obvious outcome is: WAR AT ENGLAND

Sounds like he is criticising the English and Aussie media more than the players themselves.

The good players for England, the likely ones to make the Lions tour, Wood, Robshaw, Farrell etc have excellent reputations as well as being good players.

Though if there is a tough call between two players and one hasn't been a good tourist before then I would say that player is at a disadvantage that they are personally responsible for and not the blokes selecting the squad.

Behave like an idiot and you'll be treated like one.

RubyGuby wrote:Go Warren - I said a long time ago that if you take each letter of his name then the obvious outcome is: WAR AT ENGLAND

hahah......I can see a tiny bit of a point in what he thinks but I can't for the life of me think why he would actually SAY it?!?!

Then again Warren loves Iron Mike Phillips who's disciplinary record is 1 step below Joey Barton's

Maybe he just doesn't want a repeat of 2005.

297 English
10 Irish
3 Welsh
1 Scot

RubyGuby wrote:Then again Warren loves Iron Mike Phillips who's disciplinary record is 1 step below Joey Barton's

Lee Byrne has had more yellow cards than Barton, Cantona and Savage combined!!

Hang on hang on

Can anyone actually point out where he says or even implies that he will LIMIT THE NUMBERS OF ENGLAND PLAYERS

????????????????

I think he says he will pick on merit but be aware of the media issues etc etc

Still poorly judged comments but not quite as bad as the spin being put on??

The Standard article in full.....

Warren Gatland limps in to meet me at a hotel in Cardiff. He is still nursing the ankles he broke falling from a ¬ladder while cleaning the windows of his beach house in Waihi in New ¬Zealand last April.
But, while his footsteps are hesitant, the mind of the head coach, who will take the Lions to Australia in June, is crystal clear. He knows all about the potential problems of picking too many Englishmen for the three-Test tour.
“At the moment, England are playing well. They did well in the autumn, particularly the outstanding victory against the All Blacks and, if they do well in the Six Nations, there will be a reasonable contingent of English players. But that brings a certain element of — how do I say it — other pressures that come with selecting a lot of English players. It becomes a much greater media focus from the English papers; potentially a negative focus from the Australian papers. And English players are targeted by other countries. [They are] not always the most popular with other countries because of the history. People like having a pop at them.”
Then, after reassuring me that, “the best players will be selected”, he says: “It’s just being aware of potential issues that may arise. We all know what happened with England at the World Cup and the circus that was created. I’ve just got to be aware of the possibilities that, if there are a number of English players on the tour, the same sort of things could be instigated, through stings through the media or set-ups trying to create controversy.”
England’s off-the-field antics at the 2011 World Cup, such as a boozy night out at a dwarf-throwing contest, generated negative headlines for Martin Johnson’s side.
In stark contrast, Gatland’s Wales were seen as paragons of virtue in New Zealand as they fought their way through to the semi-finals.
So were Johnson’s reins too slack?
“It’s easy with hindsight to say they should’ve handled some of those situations differently. These are young men filled up with a lot of testosterone and sometimes they need to go out and just unwind. But it’s essential these players know what their boundaries are. The way I work, it’s not a dictatorship, it’s a consultation with the other coaches and senior players or the captain. You might say to players, ‘Go out for a couple of hours and have a beer and maybe you’re back in the hotel by one o’clock’, particularly with night games.”
The former All Black hooker has a reputation for being conservative but Gatland does not shut out players who go against traditional thinking.
“Strangely, I like having people in the squad who are a little bit gregarious,” he says. “I’ve no problem with them wearing the flash boots and doing their hair differently or whatever. You don’t want everyone to be clones of each other, you want different personalities. They can give you a little bit of flavour. You’ve got a responsibility to entertain. It’s an entertainment industry.”
So, he will have no problem if Chris Ashton does his swallow dive for a try. “It’s great for the game. If he drops the ball and doesn’t score then there will be a consequence.
“As long as they understand what the boundaries are, I don’t have a problem with those individuals.”
While Gatland has no doubts on that issue, there is another he has concerns about; whether potential Lions players, born outside of Britain and Ireland, are truly aware of the unique nature of the team. England had five ‘outsiders’ in their match-day 23 last weekend, while Scotland had three, Wales two and Ireland one.
When I put this issue to Gatland his response is that of a politician: “That’s a really interesting question.” But then he reveals: “It’s something that we’ve touched on. These are the sort of things that come into consideration when you finally select the squad.”
This is an issue he and his coaches have considered in the two selection meetings they have held to pick a preliminary squad. A further meeting is due in London in a couple of weeks.
But, surely, the question of whether some of the players really ‘get’ the Lions must also apply to Gatland — a man born in New Zealand 49 years ago, who won 17 caps for the All Blacks and during a playing career in his homeland made a record 140 appearances for Waikato?
Not so, says Gatland, who has been brought up on their folklore since Carwyn James’s team notched the only Lions’ victory against the All Blacks back in 1971. Gatland also recalls having scrapbooks of Welsh greats Barry Johns and Gareth Edwards. His coaching experience in the northern hemisphere has supplemented this childhood memory, making him very aware of the politics of the different countries. The sensitivities of the four Home Nations complicates Lion selections, as demonstrated when Gatland was in charge of Ireland and his fellow Kiwi Graham Henry took the Lions to Australia in 2001. “Henry was coaching Wales and a lot of people felt that maybe too many Welsh players went on that tour. From an Irish perspective, we were disappointed that we had three or four players that missed out.”
Gatland is confident he will not face such problems because, unlike Henry, he sees himself as a northern hemisphere coach.
“Henry had been in the Welsh job for about 18 months when he was appointed for the Lions, not having been long in the northern hemisphere. To be honest, when he looks back, he wasn’t really prepared for it. I’ve been here pretty much full-time since 1989. I’m much more of a northerner, that’s where I’ve done most of my coaching. I lived in Ireland for a long time and coached there [1998-2001], coached in London with Wasps [2002-2005] and now five years in Wales. Having lived in three countries, I have a -reasonable understanding of a lot of the cultural differences. In Ireland, it’s a political minefield at times dealing with the issues of the north and the south.”
To prepare for the Lions, Gatland has taken a sabbatical from his Wales job which he says should show the players and coaches from Ireland, Scotland and England he is being as neutral as possible.
“If we’re making a 50/50 decision on a player, it won’t be about the country they come from. It’ll probably be looking at what they’re like as people. Are they good people? Will they be able to handle the disappointment if they’re not selected in the Test squad? Will they be supportive of the rest of the team? Do they relate and communicate? We’ve got to bring a squad together in such a short period [the team gather in London five days before their first match against the Barbarians in Hong Kong] that the last thing we need is factions within the squad.”
For the Lions to win a series in Australia for the first time since 1989, Gatland knows he needs luck and this makes him reflect on England’s resurgence under Stuart Lancaster.
“England could’ve easily lost the first two games in the Six Nations last year. If they had lost those games [to Scotland and Italy], Stuart probably wouldn’t have been reappointed. They would’ve gone for a more experienced, maybe an overseas coach. It just goes to show the fine lines in terms of success and failure.”
But Gatland is quick to say Lancaster’s progress is down to more than luck.
“I am not surprised by Stuart’s success. There was a process he needed to go through to limit the amount of damage that had been done during the World Cup and Stuart has done an excellent job. The environment you create is one of the most important things. He’s put in place some structures and values and he’s stuck to them. He needed to remind players about what it meant to play for England, what their responsibilities were. It’s interesting to see comments by a few of the English players. They felt there were different tiers or structures in the past. Now everyone feels on a level footing. They seem happy.”
One player who has been part of the England resurgence is Owen Farrell, whose kicking under pressure in Dublin kept England on course for the Grand Slam.
Gatland says: “He’s a good young player. He would probably say that at the start of the season there were a few games with Saracens he didn’t play as well as he would’ve liked.
“But I’ve been impressed with his resolve that he’s come back and particularly the last two games when he’s played exceptionally well.”
The fly-half is a strong candidate for the tour and, if selected, will join dad, England backs coach Andy, who will be part of Gatland’s back-room team.
“He came very highly recommended. I hadn’t worked with him before and, from a selfish point of view, it’s nice to have a fresh face, different voice, different ideas, that challenges me. As a coach I want to be challenged all the time by people that are around me.”
Last year, Gatland led Wales to the Grand Slam and following the second round of this season’s Six Nations, England are the only team capable of emulating that feat.
However, Gatland says: “I don’t think there’ll be a Grand Slam winner this year. I’d be surprised if any team go through undefeated this year. It’s a very close tournament.”
But, while Gatland did not see much open rugby in Dublin on Sunday, he was much encouraged by the first week of matches. “Last year, the Six Nations was very much defence dominated, teams were relatively conservative in the way they played. But not this year. The first weekend in particular, teams have played with a bit more tempo and a lot more positively.”
Gatland would love to recreate this positivity in Australia but is ready to imitate Sir Alex Ferguson to achieve victory. “I would be prepared to play mind games,” he says. “There are times when you’ve got to be prepared to stir the pot a little bit.”
The Australians have been warned.
Gatland on discipline
Sometimes players need to go out and unwind. It’s essential they know what their boundaries are. The way I work, it’s not a dictatorship, it’s a consultation with the other coaches and senior players.
Gatland on England
English players are targeted by other countries. They are not always the most popular with other countries because of the history. People like having a pop at them.
Gatland on selection
We’ll be looking at what they’re like as people. Do they relate and communicate? We’ve got to bring a squad together in such a short period that the last thing we need is factions within it.

t1000advancedprototype wrote:Maybe he just doesn't want a repeat of 2005.

297 English
10 Irish
3 Welsh
1 Scot

Damn right. There were far too many Irish on that tour.

To be honest I think that whoever is picked should be someone with no loyalties, if he's picking players for any reason other than form or tactics it's pathetic. The issues with England were a lack of control, what do you expect from a group of 2-30 year old males thousands of miles from home.
I also think there will be a large Welsh contingent because of his obvious bias, that has already been shown by Howley's appointment, how's he supposed to coach players who've narrowly missed out. I think somebody like Conor O'Shea or Schmidt would have been better.

ultra wrote:ermmmm?? Can't think what he would hope to achieve by saying this even if he actually thought it????

It will most probably encourage the England players to behave excellently and be the perfect tourist...?

At least he won't be taking Alastair Campbell with him - what the feck was that loser doing there with Txxxwood's circus

maestegmafia wrote:

ultra wrote:ermmmm?? Can't think what he would hope to achieve by saying this even if he actually thought it????

It will most probably encourage the England players to behave excellently and be the perfect tourist...?

I was meaning more the 'other countries dis-like them' 'the media' etc etc.....Ozzies like english less than irish or scots or welsh so we'll limit there numbers???

don't think behaviour will be so much of an issue these days.....

Anybody ever think that Gatland's just stringing everyone along here - he's a bugger for that sort of thing

I think this is fair to a large degree, though Lancaster seems to be showing that his England are harder to wind up and more mature. A couple of wind-upable players is fine but taking all of, for example, Ashton, Marler, Care, Tuilagi, Hartley, Haskell and even Brown to another country without Lancaster's team's (though I know several are going) wings around them could prove too much. I'm sure Gatland is a good man manager but it will be harder with players he doesn't know as well

Ha ha ha, what a tool. I can understand coaches trying to p*ss off other teams players but winding up your own team? Touché Mr Gatland, most impressive performance.

Just goes to show he won't repeat Sir Clive's mistake. Well done Warren, well done.

I bet players from other nations got up to just as much trouble as the ENG players did... the only difference is, one story is marketable, the other is not.

"Welsh players go crazy in team hotel"... that ain't going to sell newspapers anywhere bar Cardiff.

England are rugby's pantomine villians... everyone hates them and everyone likes to see them do badly.

In SA they always report on ENG doing someone naughty or bad... why, because their is still an element of a colonial past in SA and dislike towards their former masters. I would imagine its the same all over the former colonies.

The french, I bet they get up to 10 times worse. The french football team were involved in a prostitution ring of under aged girls a few years ago... yet the French media don't make a big deal of these things as they don't think its necessary to divulge in famous peoples lifestyles as much as the Brits do.

If Gatland thinks it will bring its problems just wait until he sees the problems of choosing token players and losing the series.

Morgannwg wrote:Just goes to show he won't repeat Sir Clive's mistake. Well done Warren, well done.

Does it mean that he will repeat Graham Henry's mistake though? I hope not.

Morgannwg

Out of interest... do you think someone else with a different plan would have done any better in 2005???

SCW original plan was only really used in the first test.... which was the closest as a contest and a scoreline.

Who would have featured and who didn't. I can only think of a few players myself.... Henson, Williams and Williams whom I would have started in place of others.... I thought this at the time too... not just hindsight.

SCW is one of the few men who have actually won a test match in NZ...... since 2000 you can list the number of coaches on one hand.

He had a plan, it didn't work. But prior to 05 he had quite a lot of success with it so other than a few positional choices (i.e. those listed above) I can't see how that tour could have been run any different.

Graham Henry made just as big mistakes.... choosing 10 welsh players in the tour (his own players) when they came bottom of the 6N that year with a bunch of hasbeens such as Gibbs, Jenkins and Young included.... much like SCW did in 05 I guess.

Personally I always thought 01 was a bigger loss then 05. In 01 we should have won, we had the players but the management of these players was poor. In 05 we were always well behind the all blacks.

What the Welsh did in the French hotel in 2007 was pretty mental.

Someone put a sheep in Dwayne Peels room amongst other things.

t1000advancedprototype wrote:What the Welsh did in the French hotel in 2007 was pretty mental.

Someone put a sheep in Dwayne Peels room amongst other things.

Is that true? That's hilarious!

Warren is 'frit' of media ?
He may as well just hand the blank selection sheet over to Rupert's chief editors and wash his hands of the responsibility.

t1000advancedprototype wrote:What the Welsh did in the French hotel in 2007 was pretty mental.

Someone put a sheep in Dwayne Peels room amongst other things.

Nothing wrong there so long as she was a pretty one... even though she was French.

gregortree wrote:

t1000advancedprototype wrote:What the Welsh did in the French hotel in 2007 was pretty mental.

Someone put a sheep in Dwayne Peels room amongst other things.

Nothing wrong there so long as she was a pretty one... even though she was French.

Damn cheek, that was Mrs Peel

Gatland bemoans media attention whilst raising this issue with press. Oh, the sweet, sweet irony.

There was no mention in that article about not picking English players.

Morgannwg wrote:Just goes to show he won't repeat Sir Clive's mistake. Well done Warren, well done.

By that do you mean not taking too many English players? But i guess in your eyes, it will be all right to take too many "WELSH PLAYERS" Right Morgannwg.

I'm with Fatland. He can have Cips; England can have everyone else and our coaches back for our real tour.

I believe Gatland is playing the media to get a message across to all those, from whatever country, to behave themselves while on tour.
If any do let themselves, and the Lions, down by high spirited jinks then the Australian and British media will make a meal of it which may have a negative impact on team moral. It would be an unwelcome distraction they could do without.
The Australian media certainly would....

mckay1402 wrote:There was no mention in that article about not picking English players.

No there wasn't. Absolutely none. It's a completely made up headline. He's they need to be careful as the media make more of a fuss about English players. He hasn't even suggested they won't get picked if they were a bit wild on a previous. He even said he liked that. He just said they need to be careful due to increased media focus and possible stings/setups.

Read what he actually said people

got to be honest .. SL dont let any off em go.. this has proved to be a total sham, lions is out dated.

Just thinking back to the fact that france will have played 19 more games v NZ after this summer confirms the lions is no good any more.. england need that extra tour and all that..

So he puts pressure on individual England players to make sure they are among the select few. Genius.

Bit a none story to be honest and flies in the face of:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-2254700/Warren-Gatland-discusses-Lions-selection.html#axzz2KiC1aHxJ