England v New Zealand ODI Series

First topic message reminder :

Teams for first ODI:

New Zealand: 1 Martin Guptill, 2 BJ Watling, 3 Kane Williamson, 4 Ross Taylor, 5 Brendon McCullum (capt & wk), 6 Grant Elliott, 7 James Franklin, 8 Andrew Ellis, 9 Nathan McCullum, 10 Kyle Mills, 11 Mitchell McClenaghan

England: 1 Alastair Cook (capt), 2 Ian Bell, 3 Jonathan Trott, 4 Joe Root, 5 Eoin Morgan, 6 Jos Buttler (wk), 7 Chris Woakes, 8 Stuart Broad, 9 Graeme Swann, 10 James Anderson, 11 Steven Finn

England currently 157/2 after 34 overs after being put into bat. Cook out for 4, Bell out for 64. Trott and Root doing nicely.

why Trott at 3- this is baffling!

i just don't get bell in at 2 and trott in 3!

crazy stuff.. really is.

THIS ISN'T TEST CRICKET

Well you are hardly going to bat him at five are you , roakey ? If Trott is to play in ODI s he must be in the first three. Where he does a very reliable job of making solid scores , most of which lead to England wins. One might wish he could also move up the gears quickly but nobody is perfect.
Pity Cook got out then. No need to fret though ... Asking rate is about seven now , but that should not be a problem with eight wickets in hand on this pitch. Players like Morgan and Butler are basically paid to do that once the platform is set.

Anyway if it all goes pear shaped it is nice to have Trott to blame

Excellent 50 from Root!.

England cruising home...Root continues to impress .

Early days but he has not put a foot wrong in any form of cricket in the brief time he has been with the team. I don't want to hex him before he crosses swords with the South African attack , for one , but I look forward to finding out just how good he will become.

England win by 8 wickets. An excelllent, fast, innovative innings from Joe Root.
Cook has found form again, Bell had a start, and Trott staied on to see the chase through.
And James and Anderson and Steven Finn were superb with the ball.
For NZ, good to see Ross Taylor finding his touch, and Brendon McCullum was superb down the order.

root-- allready a star player..

And Root finishes it with two and a half overs to spare

Root 79*from 53 the hero but the much maligned Trott also played his part.

Best of three decider in a couple of days...

alfie do you not see this game turning in our favour due to someone like root coming in!!

if we wernt 2 wickets down at the point we were// Would the game have been won easily- or even won it!!

You see I really love cook(best batsman in the world imo) He is not afraid to try and score quicker at the right time.. trott - nope he doesnt have a clue at what is needed to win.. only what is needed to maximise his score..

I am a beliver in playing one decent test player at 1, 3 and even 5!

and playing shot makers at 2 4 and 6..(or switch that around)

to limit the chances of having a bell and trott combo in at the same time

Oh sure roakey I get your point (and in truth I am not certain Trott will hold his place when KP returns ) , but I still think you are being rather unfair to Trott.
In this match I didn't think England were ever in much danger of losing: the run rate never got out of control , NZ didn't really look like taking wickets , and it looked altogether a 300 pitch. They won with plan A.

Trott's job in this format is to anchor the innings. To ensure the finishers are not exposed too early and just to keep things ticking over in the meantime so their task is not too great. This he does - like today - more often than not.
Now the problem with Trott arises when the opposition makes a huge score and a successful chase requires fast runs from the off - Trott can't do that. But neither , I would suggest , can anyone else England might select at three , at least with any sort of consistency. The other time Trott can frustrate the viewer is when he is in , and seemingly well set , while other batsmen fail around him : sometimes a situation is reached where a charge for victory seems possible if only Trott will take over and race for the line while the tail supports him...and he just can't move from picking up singles to clearing the ropes. Which to me just shows that no one batsman is perfect for all situations...
I reckon Trott has been good value for England in ODIs way more often than not. If he loses his spot it will be because Bell and Root prove they can do his job better. And at worst he must remain a squad member.

anchor yes- correct- but at 3!!

anchor has to be 4 or 5 in my mind..

BTW this isnt an issue with trott at 3 ,its cook, bell and trott at 1-3!

If trott has showed me he could take the hitting role then I wouldnt have an issue. but its a rare thing IMO.. Cook trys this role out when needed- i think bell does as well- but he just isnt that good at it at the mo.

I would have trott in the team over bell... trott in at 3- but a kp or someone close to equivelant at 2.. (which to be fair we dont have yet)- but talyor or root(even give prior one last go at it would be my picks..

Ok yes we were trying kieswater out- so its not as if this system isnt what england wants.,

Good bounce back again.

Pleased to see Root developing like this.

Yeah, Root has really taken to these NZ wickets.

His credentials for playing a vital role for England in both the long and short forms is growing very nicely.

Well this answers one question....Root can play the KP role. Problem solved, England dont really need him back!

OK when he is back...Id rather have Root Morgan KP in the side together than Cook Bell and Trott. One of these has to go.

So who does step aside? Id agree with Oakey, Trott has been consistently good for a number of years and is arguably the most reliable ( if unspectacular) batsmen in ODI cricket. With Cook as Captain its inevitably bell the question mark falls on, if we discount Morgan from the equation (seems unthinkable?)

Roots averaging over 70 with a strike rate over 0.9, OK its a pretty small number of games but theres just now way I can see how such an adaptable player who clearly has a mental aptitude to bring his best in international cricket can be left out. That he offers the best support bowling option of all Englands batsmen strengthens his position even more.

In a perfect world Id have all 6 plus Hales ....unfortunately we also need bowlers. I do feel we lack a bit of variation there, but you can only pick what youve got and NZ have hardly been running away on those guys. just the middle overs, we struggle to exert pressure. Woakes got some badly needed wickets so I cant see England changing the balance of the attack for now. Broad needs to rediscover his form. Swann too.

All through they seem a pretty unspectacular side, but it does appear solidity wins games....unless they are playing India

comphrensive win

fantastic knock from Taylor and McCullum from the kiwis!


however Joe Root is starting to cement his place in this side, and it was another exceptional knock from him today!

Comfortable win that for England. Brilliant bowling by Anderson, and a very measured, concise approach by all of the top 4 batting. Root looks to be a great talent for the future.

To be fair - NZ were cruising along... smashing the bowling to all parts. 240/4 in the 44th over.

Then there was a huge cluster of wickets after Brendon McCullum was caught just short of another boundary by Woakes. The collapse made the bowling look so much better than it probably was. Still, they prevented NZ from getting 300 plus runs which looked very possible with Taylor & BMac in full flight.

NZ certainly are good in the short forms.

I'm interested to see how the teams match up when the tests start. Should be good.

The question with Trott's place in the team is whether we win more games because of his ability to anchor an innings and get 250-280 or lose more when we fail to get 300+ because of his inability to accelerate the scoring.

So far, the evidence is that he's been an asset more often than a hinderance, but the recently applied changes to the fielding regulations slightly tilt the game back towards batsmen who can hit over the top, which is the big weakness in Trott's armoury as an ODI player.

Very impressed with Root - came in at a time when things could have gone wrong and pressure start to build, but played himself in sensibly and then started to get more inventive and kept us well ahead of the rate required. OK, was lucky with the first drop, but otherwise simply did the right things at the right time.

trott is needed no doubts..bells the one that we need out.

It is very interesting to see that trott has never scored a 6 in odi cricket!!

we know what we are gonna get from him.. the p[roblem is that period when trott and a 'test' opener comes in afetr the first wicket

england allways go slow at that point- unless offcourse we have a kp in there allready

at the moment hard to find a way back for KP...

Cook-Captain and run-machine

Bell-hasnt stopped socring runs in odi's since his comeback to the side as opener

Trott-IMO has to stay in the side, class act and run machine

Root-created a world record today, first guy to score 30 or more on 6 occasions in a row from debut...including 3 50's from 6 innings

Morgan-Most in danger....our best odi batsmen but really short of runs in odi's recently

Broad needs to get his act together with the ball. Shocking again today

dummy_half wrote:The question with Trott's place in the team is whether we win more games because of his ability to anchor an innings and get 250-280 or lose more when we fail to get 300+ because of his inability to accelerate the scoring.

Id ask this...how often do england need 300 in a game ...and how many of those do they fail to get it inspite of trotts apparent inability to score quickly (except forthe occassions he does)

He has a better career SR than bell does.

Root was brilliant today, what an innings!NZ look to be almost completely reliant on McCullum and Taylor, wouldn't have got close in the last game without their captain and would have struggled to get 200 today without him.

Very pleasing to beat NZ in their strongest form of the game. Good to see Eng putting out a stronger side after the experimental line up in India.

NZ seem too dependent on McCullum at the mo.

It was always going to be a hard ask for NZ after England's brilliant start. They simply prevented the runs early on and like you say trebs - only BMc got them to a meager total. England's top order set the platform with relative ease and the rest chimed in.

root gets his first score less than 30--

a 28 NO..


and people were having a pop at me for comparing this man to Sir Bradman..


Forget KP, forget tendulker, forget lara, forget pontin!!..

This boy can play!

and he can bowl!!

Rather nice win again for England, the early bowling set it up, and nice to see all the bowlers chipping in with contributions. 2-1 England and 2-1 England, roll on the proper stuff!

Are Test wins enough for this england.. Or do we need to aim for massive wins?

mystiroakey wrote:Are Test wins enough for this england.. Or do we need to aim for massive wins?

Let's 'ave some massive innings victories like Australia 2010/11 and India 2011!

Yep I dont want to sound arrogant at all. But I think we have to look at a coclusive victory in test v nz..

They were a good test in the odis mind.. credit to them

Going back to england and the ODI's.

i think getting 20 wickets in the last 2 matches is showing that our bowlers are getting back involed..

When our bowlers fire there is only ever one winner..

we didn't take many of them to the India ODI series though sadly.

yep i didnt understand that at all trebbs!!!

India in india!! the toughest test for any team in ODI's and we take a weakened bowling attack

I suppose on a plus note it has rested key players and helped look at and develop others.. and shown some just aren't at that level.