Who is the best mover for their size?

First topic message reminder :

I wonder if being an inch taller from 6'1-6'2 impacts your movement that much.
For example if it does, you would probably say djoko over nadal.

But for me, the best mover for their size has to be monfils, imo hes the quickest out there. JJ moves very well for his height of 6'8, whereas isner at 6'9 turns slower than the QE2!

thoughts?

With a western grip it's no wonder you prefer high balls to lower ones. It has its uses if you play most of the time on high bouncing courts but not if you were to play indoors more. The beauty of the SW grip is that you get best of both worlds. It's why all juniors are now taught with that grip...and I predict it'll go back to Eastern eventually with Western being for naturally raised claycourters. Blanket Western coaching is a thing of the past now in US and Europe. Even Murray has moved from the Western he got taught at Barcelona to a SW grip. But he still reverts to it at times under pressure and tops it into the net...how many times have you seen him do that?

I'm semi-western both sides - FH and SHBH. Sometimes my SHBH slips to Western like Gasquet. My son is SW/E on FH and standard conti (right) and Eastern (left) on the DHBH. But it's also about racquet head speed and swing plane. A lot of technique is moving to wiper shield follow through on FH...just like Fed who studied Nadal's FH to move from std FH follow through to wiper shield. However, what Nadal does really well is hit through the wiper shield so he hits through the ball for a long time. It's an error many make, they get so spin obsessed they don't hit through and beyond the ball anywhere near far enough...losing lots of power. Power is also lost in the footwork, transfer of weight from back to front, etc...and on and on... Guys like Nadal and Federer do so many segments of the FH amazingly well using stretch shortening cycles too where the wrist gets cocked on the way back.

Fair comment LS, Annacone helped Fed focus on building his game around his serve more, to be more aggressive...just as he did with Sampras...just as he did with Henman.

But I'll be controversial here...the Indian summers all those players got came at the expense of knackered backs!!! Funny co-incidence hey...

I am semi on the backhand myself but i feel like I can hit flat and hard with the western on the forehand, plus I am not the tallest player so I have to hit a lot of balls around my shoulders naturally speaking. If I couldn't hit flat and hard with the western I wouldn't use it. I used semi for a long time and find that comfortable, although I started with an eastern forehand don't like it at all. Interesting your son has conti on the two hander. I often get caught in continental return on the two hander because I always start in forehand grip on the return and at times don't get to switch over. I hit the ball fine with a two hander in conti, semi or whatever, that is another reason I like it so very hard to screw it up.

If your grips are working then fine...and for many people the angle of the wrists creates a flatter hit anyway. Of course you know Djokovic hits DHBH with Conti/Eastern combo right? The important thing is the grip of the left hand (if right handed player), the conti right hand is just for guidance. Nalbandian plays Conti/SW and he hits it fine! But right hand ideally needs to be conti. Anyway, for me footwork, rotation and follow through are bigger determinants than grip, as long as the grip isn't clearly unnatural for the player leading to injury.

Hope you're not getting arm issues with the Luxi...I did, play with poly/synthetic hybrid now.

lydian wrote:Movement is much more complex than just speed left and right...

- Outright top speed
- Footspeed, I.e. cadence
- Foot-eye coordination
- Agility of footwork...fine motor control
- Speed around net, I.e. agility
- Speed off the mark as opposed to top speed
- Speed in turning left or right from the hips
- Flexibility

All these things are slightly different, and the top players differ in what they excel at. For example, I believe Nadal and Federer's sheer dexterity of footwork is a level above others. Best footwork I ever saw was Borg and Kafelnikov. Djokovic's speed in turning (one reason why he's such a good returner) and flexibility is at the top. Murray's or Monfil's outright speed is very high (huge stride length), Federer's movement and reactions at net is great, Nadal's explosive speed off the mark, ...etc...etc. There is no one best mover...they all differ...maybe if you could add all the sub-movement scores up you might have a list but for me it's very hard to judge, especially when different types of movement become more important on different surfaces, or even against different types of player.

I have to disagree completely about Nadal I think it's his bad footwork that's lead to his injuries. And I'm not just saying that now because of his current problems but I was saying it back in 2009 about him and Monfils:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/606/A60082364

Yes the top had the bottom hand stays conti all the way and the top hand is sem-western on mine. I thought you were talking about the guide hand. I have a good double hander and the trick of course is to hit a left hand forehand and to really whip the top hand or the left hand for righties through the ball. My left hand is a little bit more semi-western like Nalby, I whip up a bit with left hand.

I don't have any issue with the luxis, I have more issues with my feet and hardcourts. When I snap my wrist and do that FFS stuff you talk about occassionally I do feel it in the wrist but never arms or elbows thankfully.

Nice one socal, you're all set
You need good trainers for HCs...lots of cushioning, and good heel-toe action so you're not hitting the floor flat-footed and jarring joints.

Eric, can you please specifically describe how Nadal has poor footwork, I'd be interested to know.
Small/big steps is old fashioned coaching...lots of small rapid ones are taught now.
Sliding on HC hasn't caused Nadal's injuries.

lydian wrote:Nice one socal, you're all set
You need good trainers for HCs...lots of cushioning, and good heel-toe action so you're not hitting the floor flat-footed and jarring joints.

Eric, can you please specifically describe how Nadal has poor footwork, I'd be interested to know.
Small/big steps is old fashioned coaching...lots of small rapid ones are taught now.
Sliding on HC hasn't caused Nadal's injuries.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VE_RqaEsBiM

That video is useless. He's playing an extreme recovery shot...one that's unique to him. It's not a typical BH drill shot he plays. You ask ANY performance tennis coach about Nadal's footwork and you'll only hear words like amazing, textbook, etc. The problem with his BH is not his feet but his arms...he's right handed so the dominant arm is wrong way round leading to an unorthodox shot.

http://www.revolutionarytennis.com/step2.html
Compare modern 4-small step prep to older small/large prep outlined lower down...

lydian wrote:That video is useless. He's playing an extreme recovery shot...one that's unique to him. It's not a typical BH drill shot he plays. You ask ANY performance tennis coach about Nadal's footwork and you'll only hear words like amazing, textbook, etc. The problem with his BH is not his feet but his arms...he's right handed so the dominant arm is wrong way round leading to an unorthodox shot.

http://www.revolutionarytennis.com/step2.html
Compare modern 4-small step prep to older small/large prep outlined lower down...

Then why to Monfils and Nadal often play with their knees strapped? I've never seen Federer or Murray play with knee strappings any where near as much as these two.

Why is Nadal complaining about hardcourts causing injuries?

I know of quite a few players including myself who've injured themselves sliding on hardcourts.

Nadal's issue is a congenitally defected bone in his foot which he needs custom insoles to take pressure off, but that changes the alignment of his Achilles to knee leading to the issues he has now. They knew this was the risk but it was better than immediate retirement in 2005.

Monfil's issue is simple. He's 6'4' and built like a tank, he slides all over the place...frames that size (height & weight) are not meant to move like that. However, he also has comparatively thin legs so not that much supporting and protective musculature to support his knees with the punishment he puts them through...doing almost splits on many runs...Nadal doesn't do that either.

Nadal also has inflammation in the knee caused by Hoffa's Syndrome, a fat pad that pushes on his tendons. HCs exacerbate the inflammation because he cant slide on them as he does on clay so movement isn't as natural. Therefore he speaks out about the number of HCs...

So unfortunately genetics dealt him 2 bad cards when it came to his lower limbs...his style of play per se actually isn't the issue despite all the protestations otherwise. After all Djokovic is doing fine, and Nadal never gets injured higher up, e.g. thigh, groin or hip, for all his so-called destructive style of play.

Despite Nadal's problems, sliding around on harcourts is not doing him any favours. As for Monfis, Del Potro is an even bigger guy and he doesn't slide around like this.

I can't agree with Eric, I don't think anyone moves around that forehand like Nadal, that is very advanced footwork and takes a lot of precision. Nadal has always had an advantage over fed because he could turn every shot into a forehand and play his forehand against Fed's backhand. That takes a lot of work and efficient motion to get around that many backhands. Or when Nadal moves up to pick up a low short ball up in the court. Nadal moves really well and his injuries are not a result of his style.

@SoCal... that movement exposes the FH and a DHBH on the other side of the net which can slap a CC (a la Djokovic and Murray) is lethal. Just watch Murray v Nadal @Tokyo.

lydian wrote:After all Djokovic is doing fine, and Nadal never gets injured higher up, e.g. thigh, groin or hip, for all his so-called destructive style of play.

IIRC, Nadal withdrew from Paris with shoulder issues right after US 2010, correct?

Djokovic is the 'elastic man' and he slides on HC like it is Clay. I do admire Nadal for choosing Tennis over Golf or Football (obviously a no-no). Pro Golf takes even more out of you in the upper body, then Tennis does. Just notice Woods body build.

Agassi's opinion regarding Nadal's style deserves some respect, too.

I would like to add Robin Soderling to the list. 6'4 190lbs. His movement on Clay was quite remarkable. Such a shame Mono has destroyed his career.

lydian wrote:Nadal's issue is a congenitally defected bone in his foot which he needs custom insoles to take pressure off, but that changes the alignment of his Achilles to knee leading to the issues he has now. They knew this was the risk but it was better than immediate retirement in 2005.

Monfil's issue is simple. He's 6'4' and built like a tank, he slides all over the place...frames that size (height & weight) are not meant to move like that. However, he also has comparatively thin legs so not that much supporting and protective musculature to support his knees with the punishment he puts them through...doing almost splits on many runs...Nadal doesn't do that either.

Nadal also has inflammation in the knee caused by Hoffa's Syndrome, a fat pad that pushes on his tendons. HCs exacerbate the inflammation because he cant slide on them as he does on clay so movement isn't as natural. Therefore he speaks out about the number of HCs...

So unfortunately genetics dealt him 2 bad cards when it came to his lower limbs...his style of play per se actually isn't the issue despite all the protestations otherwise. After all Djokovic is doing fine, and Nadal never gets injured higher up, e.g. thigh, groin or hip, for all his so-called destructive style of play.

No-one was aware of the congenital foot problem until Rafa wrote abut it in his book- that's why it made the news at the time. It had never been mentioned before that.
Yet before that many pundits and even some fans were noting that his destructive style of play could/would lead to future problems. When those problems started to materialise - that's when the congenital foot problem was announced.

Its not like you to be cynical JHM
The inference from your comment is that Nadal and his camp have been lying about the foot problem - that its a mask for his knee problems. Why would they make up such a story?

The point is that he has suffered no other problems with his so called style of play...hip problems like Nalby? No. Ankle problems? No. Groin problems? No. Back problems? No. Just the knees.

I've no idea if they are lying or not, although they do have a history of providing conflicting information.

But my main point is that before anyone knew of the foot problem, many observers were predicting future problems based on the style of his game. So it seems reasonable to assume his style of game is also an issue, perhaps the main one.

And if the foot problem was diagnosed in 2005, surely the smart move would have been to move away from a style of game that would make things even worse. So in that sense, bad decisions are also a factor, not just the foot i.e. it's not just bad luck. Or they made a conscious decision to ruin Rafa's knees to gain success in return for shortening his career, although that seems odd given that Rafa has repeatedly said he is worried about not being able to e.g. play football when his career is over.

I wonder if they'd managed it properly, perhaps the foot, should it be factual, would not have caused any problems.

JuliusHMarx. There was little new in Rafa's book including the information about his foot. It was relatively common knowledge to anyone interested. You've talked about it being "new" information before. But your wrong.

Nonsense about Rafa just changing his style of play. It is a style of play that has made him an all time great. But also even if he wanted to it's not something that any pre formed player can do. Why doesn't Federer start playing left handed, adopt a double handed backhand and learn to put a little more spin on the ball. If he did so he might have got a few more wins against Nadal? It's just bad decisions that have lead to Federer's inability to beat Nadal. Ha ha!

You could argue the same of Djokovic and his style of play... if anything Novak contorts himself even more on court than Nadal and yet no foot, knee, hip problems.

Heavy baseline play is always going to be a risk for injury, clearly, but the sheer amount of time that Nadal has had out of the game over the years is excessive in my opinion to be just down to style of play. No-one else near the top of the game has been out for anywhere near as long in total through injury. Making up stories about specially made orthotics for shoes is too far fetched, plus I know from experience what orthotics are meant to do...and in his case he didn't need them for over pronation or supination as you normally do...in his case adding them would cause that condition and put his legs out of alignment. As the story went, he could barely walk in the modified trainers to start with.

You can't modify your style of play in tennis. You are what you are...it's like trying to change your personality, it's imprinted and an expression of who/what you are. The decisions are not bad, he either played the game his way or not at all, and he's won 8 slams since having the shoes modified so he's done ok. I would say a congenital foot issue and fat growth behind the patella were bad luck. Unless you believe him to be lying of course.

JuliusHMarx. There was little new in Rafa's book including the information about his foot. It was relatively common knowledge to anyone interested. You've talked about it being "new" information before. But your wrong.

Yet funnily no-one in the tennis circle or even his fans mentioned it.

How 'Common Knowledge' it was

You can't escape that Nadal will attract sceptism lydian. Toni if anything has more than contributed to that and not Rafa.

Djokovic has had his breathing problems well documented like Federer has with his back and Andy and the ankle. If Rafa's injuries were a result of the punishing impact his style has on his back I think many would not think twice, but since his latest injury setback this thing with Hoffa's has come out. I am not for one denying that it's true, but the timing of it was strange and convenient. However, who would really want to be forth-right with their illnesses or conditions? If Rafa had mentioned his conditions at the very beginning of his career, I still don't think the accusations or suspicions would've gone away. If anything I think they would've intensified. Someone playing in pain and with debilitating conditions. Really Rafa couldn't win in some public opinions.

What is good now is that Rafa himself is being more open rather than the ridiculous statements Toni releases regarding his health.

Look at when Federer defeated Sampras at Wimbledon in 2001. Not so long after that it emerged Sampras had been playing with shin splints. Yet watching him play you wouldn't have guessed that he was.

hawkeye wrote:JuliusHMarx. There was little new in Rafa's book including the information about his foot. It was relatively common knowledge to anyone interested. You've talked about it being "new" information before. But your wrong.

Nonsense about Rafa just changing his style of play. It is a style of play that has made him an all time great. But also even if he wanted to it's not something that any pre formed player can do. Why doesn't Federer start playing left handed, adopt a double handed backhand and learn to put a little more spin on the ball. If he did so he might have got a few more wins against Nadal? It's just bad decisions that have lead to Federer's inability to beat Nadal. Ha ha!

I talked about it being in the news - which it was. I cannot find any public reference to a congenital foot problem online at all before it was announced in 2011. I'd be grateful if someone could provide one.

If the decision was for Rafa to win as much as possible before his knees gave out, fair enough. But that's an admission that his style of play was a contributary factor, at the very least, and possibly the main cause. (And he can't now complain about his post-tennis 'knee health' if he decides to continue playing. No-one is forcing him to play.)

Did'nt Uncle Toni once say Nadal has a foot problem, and may have to retire from the sport circa 2006-07? If I remember, Nadal stated UT should sometimes rather keep quiet.
Sure they never said it was a congenital problem, but thats semantics..

kingraf wrote:Did'nt Uncle Toni once say Nadal has a foot problem, and may have to retire from the sport circa 2006-07? If I remember, Nadal stated UT should sometimes rather keep quiet.
Sure they never said it was a congenital problem, but thats semantics..

Did he? I can't find it anywhere. He did have a broken bone in his foot at one point, I believe, but that would be a different injury, not semantics.

I just find it odd that after years of many people saying Rafa's style of play would lead to knee problems, and no-one saying otherwise...now that he has knee problems, we're asked to believe it's not his style of play after all.

telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/2326951/Rafael-Nadal-battles-against-serious-foot-injury.html

Nadal claims he found out about the problem in '05. The article, dated 2007, says he has had a foot problem for two years.

kingraf wrote:telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/2326951/Rafael-Nadal-battles-against-serious-foot-injury.html

Nadal claims he found out about the problem in '05. The article, dated 2007, says he has had a foot problem for two years.

Thank you

Fair comment LK, Rafa is always damned if he says something, damned if he doesn't. In the early part of his career it was clear that Toni was his mouthpiece and he didn't say anything - infact was probably told not to say anything to the media.

The other issue here is that mechanical problems are not always easy to deduce...sure we feel pain and know there is inflammation or tears causing that but getting to diagnosis is not straight forward.

There are articles in 2005 discussing the diagnosis of arthritis in his left foot - in 2004 he sustained a stress fracture in that foot and the arthritis sprung from there I suspect. I also suspect naturally weakened bones in the left foot didn't take well to him starting to play much more heavily on hardcourts more from 2004 onwards, and running on HCs caused that initial issue/fracture. Hence why he's very touchy about that surface to this day.

At the time in 2004 they probably didn't realise there was a weakness, just that he had the fracture and it then led to arthritis build up and pain in 2005.

There are further articles in 2005/6 discussing how he needed specially adapted shoes (insoles), and that they were causing him issues in his legs already.

This appeared in Mundo Deportivo at the end of 2005/early 2006. Its translated from Spanish.

Nadal delays his 2006 debut
Injured since October 2005, he has pulled out of Chennai (Jan 2nd) but could return in Sydney (Jan 9th). On the day before his first appearance at a Masters ATP, Rafa Nadal, who still had pain that just would not go away in his left foot, declared to those present at his last training session in Shanghai: "If playing here is going to mean that I'll be out for two months afterwards, it's better that I don't.".

Back in Spain, he put himself in the hands of Dr Angel Ruiz-Cotorro who diagnosed post traumatic arthritis in the instep of his left foot. The pain had started during his fight back against the Croatian Ivan Ljubicic in the final of the Madrid Masters tournament on October 23rd and Nadal has not played a competitive match since that day.

Every little detail has to be taken into consideration: in the middle of this month, Rafa went to Barcelona for a study to be made of the pressure support points of his foot, and the insoles he usually wears were modified.

Then at end of 2005, this appeared in Spanish press...again translated
http://www.marca.es/edicion/marca/te...lo/604564.html

Nadal began his particular last week against time to be ready in the Australia Open which begins on January 16 (2006) at Melbourne Park tracks. The Spaniard has been exercised in recent days with Carlos Moya but was unable to extend the sessions over an hour and a half. The reason is that changing the supports in his shoes to avoid future foot injuries, especially the left, causes both legs to suffer overload, which can also trigger tendinitis.

For further support, Nadal has special insoles designed after a biomechanical study. Remember that the Balearic tennis player now suffers what is called pronation. And it tends to hit the right with the left foot closed. "Rafa is well but the change of support, orthotics, it causes overload and this is now the problem that makes us doubtful for Australia."said Toni Nadal, uncle and coach.

So they knew back then that the orthotics created to take the strain off his left foot caused stress overload leading to tendinitis in his legs. It was the price they had to pay. There are probably other Spanish articles (that's where they tended to be published) going into other aspects around that time but the issues in his feet were well known and the issues with the solution likewise.

The point here is that the underlying weakness in his left foot was exposed by his move from natural surface clay which he'd pretty much only played on until end of 2003 to a more sustained hardcourt campaign from 2004 onwards. That's where the problem started and why the changes were made. The orthotics have been a ticking time bomb ever since - there was never anything wrong with his knees but the misalignment created has caused them to flare over time.

By the way Nadal won 6-2 6-2 overnight in Mexico.

There is one who I would consider a really beautiful mover is Mecir. He reminded me of a big African cat in the wild, absolutely quiet, and would probably walk across the net without his opponent knowing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTL7_7gBcF8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae7lyHnuOdw (McEnroe is having a hard time).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ziShLGUU-c

lydian wrote:By the way Nadal won 6-2 6-2 overnight in Mexico.

Only seeds 1,2,3,8 left after R1. . Nico-Zeba winner may be too tired for Nadal SF. Surprised at the Wawrinka loss to Fognini...

So they knew back then that the orthotics created to take the strain off his left foot caused stress overload leading to tendinitis in his legs. It was the price they had to pay. There are probably other Spanish articles (that's where they tended to be published) going into other aspects around that time but the issues in his feet were well known and the issues with the solution likewise.

The point here is that the underlying weakness in his left foot was exposed by his move from natural surface clay which he'd pretty much only played on until end of 2003 to a more sustained hardcourt campaign from 2004 onwards. That's where the problem started and why the changes were made. The orthotics have been a ticking time bomb ever since - there was never anything wrong with his knees but the misalignment created has caused them to flare over time.

With that said lydian, would it not stand the reason that had Nadal not played tennis that these injuries he has sustained would've not occured. I think this is the issue. Yes the injuries were sustained early on in his career and the Hoffa's from birth. Styles aside, playing tennis has contributed to Nadal's current state of health physically.

Take Murray. How he has played with one ligament in his left ankle is beyond me! Especially on HC's.

Fognini is a good player on clay and Wawrinka is better on HC/faster really so no surprises there really. Agree on Mecir...wasn't his nickname "Big Cat"?

Yep LK, he chose tennis and so he has to deal with the issues it throws up. But maybe people can see why he's so sensitive about HCs. In his mind they caused his initial 2004 stress fracture from which everything else has flowed - and ironically his feet are fine now.

Yep Murray has done well with his weakened ankles, thankfully there are great ankle braces out now which allowed him to play - and in his case at least the support didn't alter the alignment of his legs, nor has he had to play through pain. But you wonder about the strain his other ankle ligaments are taking...at the end of the day tennis is a highly physical sport no matter how you play it. They're all one serious injury away from disaster...some of it is luck, some of it style of play, some of it (or rather alot of it if you're a top player) being a victim of success.

I love Fognini. Brilliant ballstriker and cost Djokovic the Calendat Grand Slam I do recall during the US Open that Fabio is widely respected on the tour as one of the best ballstrikers around and that players who practice with him enjoy it a lot.

Ferrero was another fantastic and smooth mover on the court.

lydian wrote:Fognini is a good player on clay and Wawrinka is better on HC/faster really so no surprises there really. Agree on Mecir...wasn't his nickname "Big Cat"?

Yes, i almost forgot about that one.

legendkillarV2 wrote:I love Fognini. Brilliant ballstriker and cost Djokovic the Calendat Grand Slam

Should all Tennis history be expunged of such a dark day?

legendkillarV2 wrote:I do recall during the US Open that Fabio is widely respected on the tour as one of the best ballstrikers around and that players who practice with him enjoy it a lot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lqXoFgngPs Very good match.

legendkillarV2 wrote:Ferrero was another fantastic and smooth mover on the court.

Even at this age... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvnKJ4gUYaM

LF

Yep, it was that ball striking ability that got him through that FO match when he could barely walk. If he was as strong mentally and physically as his ball striking he'd be some player. But then that's true of many of them...Bellucci, Baghdatis, Verdasco (mental), Melzer (mental), Malisse, etc...

Lydian... do you recall Melzer v Djokovic @RG or Melzer v Federer @MC. He is roughly the same age as Federer, IIRC.

I do remember those...great ball striker and had a purple patch not long ago but never able to sustain the talent he had inside. He reminds me a great deal of Verdasco.

Melzer v Federer MC was quite memorable not for Melzer making the top 10, but for the 'lucky jibe' afterwards

now you've done it LK!
whats that coming over the hill is it a socal is it a socal?

Only a question of time ......!

Some of socal's posts have been richly entertaining during these 'quieter' parts of the season, and he deserves due credit for keeping so many of us amused

I particularly liked his recent assertion that his theories are now "widely accepted" - which they undoubtedly are.......

within the socal household .....

JuliusHMarx wrote:I've no idea if they are lying or not, although they do have a history of providing conflicting information.

But my main point is that before anyone knew of the foot problem, many observers were predicting future problems based on the style of his game. So it seems reasonable to assume his style of game is also an issue, perhaps the main one.

And if the foot problem was diagnosed in 2005, surely the smart move would have been to move away from a style of game that would make things even worse. So in that sense, bad decisions are also a factor, not just the foot i.e. it's not just bad luck. Or they made a conscious decision to ruin Rafa's knees to gain success in return for shortening his career, although that seems odd given that Rafa has repeatedly said he is worried about not being able to e.g. play football when his career is over.

I wonder if they'd managed it properly, perhaps the foot, should it be factual, would not have caused any problems.

A lot of players play that defensive style with big spin off the baseline nowadays. To an extent Djokovic and Murray also ask a great deal from their bodies as their defensive skills are a major part of their repetoire. But nobody seems to have the consistent leg problems Nadal has. For years I have heard how Djokovic's style would limit his play and shorten his career. Initial indications are that he has been one of the most durable and active players on tour for the last 6 years. I still cringe when he slides on the concrete but his body is more elastic than most mortals. A lot of players play long points and defensive styles, I can't think of many who have had as much chronic issue with his legs as Nadal. I agree with lydian on this one. It feels good to disagree with my devil's advocate.

Indeed socal, and I believe Nadal would have had a similarly relatively injury free career to Djokovic had he not that misshaped tarsal scaphoid bone in his left foot that triggered all his issues since 2004.

lags72 wrote:Only a question of time ......!

Some of socal's posts have been richly entertaining during these 'quieter' parts of the season, and he deserves due credit for keeping so many of us amused

I particularly liked his recent assertion that his theories are now "widely accepted" - which they undoubtedly are.......

within the socal household .....

Lags, if you read any article by paid tennis journalists you will here reference to the golden age/golden generation the same exact terminology I used to call this period back in 08 and 09. I am not saying I invented that turn of phrase but I was one of the first to see it and have taken a great deal of flack from the legion of federminions online for saying so early on and sticking to it. Now the weight of journalistic research on the topic has come to the conclusion that I am right. Now if you want to bury your head in the warm sand of federer induced myopia feel free. Some of us will not turn our eyes from the truth in order to be nice to the Empanada Dave, One shot Andy, Dodgy hip Lleyton, and the Russian playboy. Federer couldn't have assembled a team of "rivals" lol! more suited to the task of racking up grandslams if he was ole Honest Abe Lincoln himself selecting his own cabinet.

lydian wrote:Indeed socal, and I believe Nadal would have had a similarly relatively injury free career to Djokovic had he not that misshaped tarsal scaphoid bone in his left foot that triggered all his issues since 2004.

I can't even pronouce or spell the bone you are referencing so it must be scarey. In fact a great deal of players have played long points and a defensive style and had long careers. Nadal has had the most injury issues of any of the top guys in recent years and that lends me to believe that what they say about chronic leg problems is true.

lydian wrote:By the way Nadal won 6-2 6-2 overnight in Mexico.

As I said he is coming back right on schedule, I want the best possible version of Nadal at the FO, when Djoko takes it will have more meaning.


LK and LF, you guys can't let fogninni the slamkiller's exploits die can you?

socal can you provide proof that you said it was a golden era in 08 and 09?
just curious to see.

I guess if I wanted to hunt through the old 606, it isn't like I have this stuff archived, but honestly I am not that interested in proving the point. Just take my word for it or don't, is kind of my position on that luvsports. But I will get around to it one of these days, just not today.