RESULTS: 606 V2 Pound for Pound TOP 10 Greatest of All Time!

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The results are in! Please find below the top 10, and a further breakdown of the full listing. Many Thanks to all those who voted, a very good list IMO.

1 Sugar Ray Robinson (173W – 19L)
Robinson held the world welterweight title from 1946 to 1951, and won the world middleweight title in the latter year. He retired in 1952, only to come back two and a half years later and regain the middleweight title in 1955. He then became the first boxer in history to win a divisional world championship five times.

2 Harry Greb (261W – 19L)
World Middleweight boxing Champion from 1923 to 1926 and American Light Heavyweight title holder 1922–1923. He fought a recorded 303 times in his 13 year-career, against the best opposition the talent-rich 1910s & 20s could provide him, frequently squaring off against light-heavyweights and even heavyweights.

3 Henry Armstrong (149W – 21L)
Henry Jr. was a boxer who not only was a member of the exclusive group of fighters that have won boxing championships in three or more different divisions (at a time when there were fewer weight divisions than today), but also has the distinction of being the only boxer to hold three world championships at the same time.

4 Muhammad Ali (56W – 5L)
As an amateur, he won a gold medal in the light heavyweight division at the 1960 Summer Olympics in Rome. After turning professional, he went on to become the first boxer to win the lineal heavyweight championship three times.

5 Ezzard Charles (93W – 25L)
Charles was an excellent fighter - Middleweight, Light Heavyweight and Heavyweight; He fought up through the ranks, tangled with the very best long the way and gained victories over them all - Charley Burley, Lloyd Marshall, Archie Moore, "Jersey" Joe Walcott, Freddie Beshore, an older Joe Louis and Lee Oma - to name a few.

6 Roberto Duran (103W – 16L)
Durán is the only man in boxing history to win fights in 5 separate decades. He registered wins in the 1960s, 1970s, 1980s, 1990s and the 2000s. Many consider him the greatest lightweight of all time.

7 Sam Langford (200W – 47L)
Langford was a boxer who fought greats from the lightweight division right up to the heavyweights, beating many champions in the process. However, he was never able to secure a world title for himself. Called the "Greatest Fighter Nobody Knows," by ESPN.

8 Sugar Ray Leonard (36W – 3L)
Leonard was the first boxer to earn more than $100 million in purses, and he is widely considered to be one of the best boxers of all time, winning world titles in five weight divisions and defeating future fellow International Boxing Hall of Fame inductees Wilfred Benítez, Thomas Hearns, Roberto Durán and Marvin Hagler.

9 Willie Pep (229W - 11L)
Pep held the featherweight title for six years and outboxed all comers. He is best remembered for his physical four-fight series against fellow Hall of Famer Sandy Saddler.

10 Bob Fitzsimmons (51W - 8L)
A British Cornish boxer who made boxing history as the sport's first three-division world champion. He also achieved fame for beating Gentleman Jim Corbett, the man who beat John L. Sullivan, and is in The Guinness Book of World Records as the Lightest heavyweight champion.

Please find the full results below:

1 Sugar Ray Robinson
2 Harry Greb
3 Henry Armstrong
4 Muhammad Ali
5 Ezzard Charles
6 Roberto Duran
7 Sam Langford
8 Sugar Ray Leonard
9 Willie Pep
10 Bob Fitzsimmons
11 Eder Joffre
12 Joe Louis
13 Benny Leonard
14 Jimmy Wilde
15 Gene Tunney
16 Pernell Whittaker
17 Bernard Hopkins
18 Barney Ross
19 Floyd Mayweather
20 Roy Jones Jr.
21 Manny Pacquiao
22 Jack Johnson
23 Juan Manuel Marquez
24 Archie Moore
25 Lennox Lewis
26 Salvador Sanchez
T27 Marco Antonio Barrera
T27 Erik Morales

The Mighty Atom wrote:If Teofilo Stevenson wasn't Cuban he'd possibly have been a successful profressional

Yep. I said that already on a response to you. I went as far as to say he probably would have beaten Ali in the 1970s. But he never turned pro so wasn't an active pro boxer. No asterix around Ali's name. He beat the best available without prejudice. The same cannot be said for the boxers during the colour bar era.

Tunney wasn't a career Heavyweight though was he, defeated everyone there was to beat at Light Heavyweight but was deemed too good by all the champions to be given a shot steps up to Heavyweight and beats THE champion before retiring.

If we're putting an asterix next to those guys then every heavyweight champion during the time of Stevenson must also have one.

The Mighty Atom wrote:Tunney wasn't a career Heavyweight though was he, defeated everyone there was to beat at Light Heavyweight but was deemed too good by all the champions to be given a shot steps up to Heavyweight and beats THE champion before retiring.

If we're putting an asterix next to those guys then every heavyweight champion during the time of Stevenson must also have one.

Teo didn't turn pro. That is the difference. He wasn't active and was never a contender.

azania wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:If Teofilo Stevenson wasn't Cuban he'd possibly have been a successful profressional

Yep. I said that already on a response to you. I went as far as to say he probably would have beaten Ali in the 1970s. But he never turned pro so wasn't an active pro boxer. No asterix around Ali's name. He beat the best available without prejudice. The same cannot be said for the boxers during the colour bar era.

How do we know he was fighting the best, some of the amateurs at that time may have been better?
Ali faced the best as did Tunney, we could possibly use it against Dempsey but not anyone in the lower divisions with any real conviction

The Mighty Atom wrote:

azania wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:If Teofilo Stevenson wasn't Cuban he'd possibly have been a successful profressional

Yep. I said that already on a response to you. I went as far as to say he probably would have beaten Ali in the 1970s. But he never turned pro so wasn't an active pro boxer. No asterix around Ali's name. He beat the best available without prejudice. The same cannot be said for the boxers during the colour bar era.

How do we know he was fighting the best, some of the amateurs at that time may have been better?
Ali faced the best as did Tunney, we could possibly use it against Dempsey but not anyone in the lower divisions with any real conviction

I didn't realise they had Pro-Am matches in boxing.

The amateur game back then was far removed from what it is today as you are probably well aware

As i've asked twenty million times now, why put an asterix next to Tunneys name?

The Mighty Atom wrote:The amateur game back then was far removed from what it is today as you are probably well aware

As i've asked twenty million times now, why put an asterix next to Tunneys name?

Yes I am aware of the difference, but Pros didn't fight amateurs.

I have responded to that question so many times. It is irrelevant to name one fighter for the reasons I have explained so many times to you. If you do not accept my answer, too bad.

What was this argument about again?

It's relevant because Tunney DID NOT avoid anyone, he fought the best available to him or do you wish to use it against him because they all happened to be white?
With giving specifics your argument like all of yours has no basis just like me saying an amateur back then would have gone on to be a successful pro, if it didn't happen i'm not going to speculate that it could happen.

BALTIMORA wrote:What was this argument about again?

You asking me?

The Mighty Atom wrote:It's relevant because Tunney DID NOT avoid anyone, he fought the best available to him or do you wish to use it against him because they all happened to be white?
With giving specifics your argument like all of yours has no basis just like me saying an amateur back then would have gone on to be a successful pro, if it didn't happen i'm not going to speculate that it could happen.

Could a black boxer have challenged him for his HW title? If not, why not.

azania wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:It's relevant because Tunney DID NOT avoid anyone, he fought the best available to him or do you wish to use it against him because they all happened to be white?
With giving specifics your argument like all of yours has no basis just like me saying an amateur back then would have gone on to be a successful pro, if it didn't happen i'm not going to speculate that it could happen.

Could a black boxer have challenged him for his HW title? If not, why not.

Because he wasn't good enough.

Yes they could, which specific black heavyweight could have fought him?

The Mighty Atom wrote:Yes they could, which specific black heavyweight could have fought him?

So there was no colour bar then?

Which specific black heavyweight was Tunneys number one contender?

The Mighty Atom wrote:Which specific black heavyweight was Tunneys number one contender?

Can you address my question please seeing as I have answered this question so many times.

There was a colour line but during Tunneys reign as Heavyweight champion no black boxer was his number one contender so he did in fact fight the best available which part of that is hard to understand?

The Mighty Atom wrote:There was a colour line but during Tunneys reign as Heavyweight champion no black boxer was his number one contender so he did in fact fight the best available which part of that is hard to understand?

I assume those active black boxers were well aware of this colour line when they were fighting.

Oh right just like Wills was when he became the number one contender, just like Siki was when he won the light heavyweight championship.

Like I said I can give specific details of the era which you cannot, if we're assuming the best did not rise to the top because of the colour line then the same can be assumed because of those from communist states being banned from competing full stop. The best were who they were regardless of being white, black, capitalist or communist, we cannot go about rewriting history.

The Mighty Atom wrote:Oh right just like Wills was when he became the number one contender, just like Siki was when he won the light heavyweight championship.

Like I said I can give specific details of the era which you cannot, if we're assuming the best did not rise to the top because of the colour line then the same can be assumed because of those from communist states being banned from competing full stop. The best were who they were regardless of being white, black, capitalist or communist, we cannot go about rewriting history.

The same cannot be assumed whatsoever. Dempsey, Schmelling, Tunney, Bear, Braddock et al should have an asterix by their name as their title was tainted (through no fault of their own).

The same can be assumed as history has shown since they've been able to fight profressionally

Did Tunney fight the best or not?

azania wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:Oh right just like Wills was when he became the number one contender, just like Siki was when he won the light heavyweight championship.

Like I said I can give specific details of the era which you cannot, if we're assuming the best did not rise to the top because of the colour line then the same can be assumed because of those from communist states being banned from competing full stop. The best were who they were regardless of being white, black, capitalist or communist, we cannot go about rewriting history.

The same cannot be assumed whatsoever. Dempsey, Schmelling, Tunney, Bear, Braddock et al should have an asterix by their name as their title was tainted (through no fault of their own).

Az, that's one of the biggest loads of rudey poo ever.

The Mighty Atom wrote:The same can be assumed as history has shown since they've been able to fight profressionally

Did Tunney fight the best or not?

We will never know if he fought the best (at HW) seeing as some were not allowed to get near the prize.

And your comparison with commie boxers is flawed for the reason I gave earlier.

BALTIMORA wrote:

azania wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:Oh right just like Wills was when he became the number one contender, just like Siki was when he won the light heavyweight championship.

Like I said I can give specific details of the era which you cannot, if we're assuming the best did not rise to the top because of the colour line then the same can be assumed because of those from communist states being banned from competing full stop. The best were who they were regardless of being white, black, capitalist or communist, we cannot go about rewriting history.

The same cannot be assumed whatsoever. Dempsey, Schmelling, Tunney, Bear, Braddock et al should have an asterix by their name as their title was tainted (through no fault of their own).

Az, that's one of the biggest loads of rudey poo ever.

Ha. I dont think so. If some knew from the very begining that no matter what they did, they would never get the prize, why bother?

azania wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:The same can be assumed as history has shown since they've been able to fight profressionally

Did Tunney fight the best or not?

We will never know if he fought the best (at HW) seeing as some were not allowed to get near the prize.

And your comparison with commie boxers is flawed for the reason I gave earlier.

Not even you can believe what your typing

Did Tunney fight the best or not?
Did Ali fight the best or not?

Were communist state boxers allowed to compete profressionally, were they allowed to fight for world titles?

The Mighty Atom wrote:

azania wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:The same can be assumed as history has shown since they've been able to fight profressionally

Did Tunney fight the best or not?

We will never know if he fought the best (at HW) seeing as some were not allowed to get near the prize.

And your comparison with commie boxers is flawed for the reason I gave earlier.

Not even you can believe what your typing

Did Tunney fight the best or not?
Did Ali fight the best or not?

Were communist state boxers allowed to compete profressionally, were they allowed to fight for world titles?

The difference is PROFESSIONALLY.

Ali fought the very best on an equal footing when ALL knew they could fight for the title. When Tunney et al were fighting, did ALL boxers know they could fight for the title?

Your talking absolute BS and you know it

We don't if Ali fought the very best though do we because those from communist states weren't able to compete, if anything they were more disadvantaged than black boxers were who could at least fight profressionally. Which black boxer during Tunneys reign could have fought for the title but didn't put the effort in?

I can give the name of Stevenson can you give a specific name to back up your claim?

The Mighty Atom wrote:Your talking absolute BS and you know it

We don't if Ali fought the very best though do we because those from communist states weren't able to compete, if anything they were more disadvantaged than black boxers were who could at least fight profressionally. Which black boxer during Tunneys reign could have fought for the title but didn't put the effort in?

I can give the name of Stevenson can you give a specific name to back up your claim?

Nope. Not BS. Some pro boxers at that time were denied their right to fight for the title. They fought for wages instead. Most could never fulfil their potential because of the colour line. Any boxer fighting for no reason other than picking up a wage will never fulfil whatever potential they may or may not have.

Tainted titles in a tainted era.

And if you go back, I initially mentioned Stephenson. You can bleat on for as long as you want about a name. My answer will remain the same.

So in short your guessing?

The communist and colour line are exactly the same it didn't stop either Ali or Tunney fighting the best profressionals there were at the time, in certain cases like Dempsey and Wills it does but to generalise every single champion during that era again simply has nothing to back it up.

Being black or from a communist state amounts to the same conclusion, neither were able to fight for the heavyweight world title so both can be used in the same way, guessing that a black fighter would have been a ranked contender is just that a guess.

Try and provide evidence for your claims may help them look more credible

The Mighty Atom wrote:So in short your guessing?

The communist and colour line are exactly the same it didn't stop either Ali or Tunney fighting the best profressionals there were at the time, in certain cases like Dempsey and Wills it does but to generalise every single champion during that era again simply has nothing to back it up.

Being black or from a communist state amounts to the same conclusion, neither were able to fight for the heavyweight world title so both can be used in the same way, guessing that a black fighter would have been a ranked contender is just that a guess.

Try and provide evidence for your claims may help them look more credible

Guessing at what? The colour line? Nope.

The colour line/commie are very different. I understand that you cant see the difference. I cant help you there mate.

Guessing that a black fighter would have been Tunneys number contender were there not a colour line

You still have yet to answer the question whether he fought the best available to him or not

The Mighty Atom wrote:Guessing that a black fighter would have been Tunneys number contender were there not a colour line

You still have yet to answer the question whether he fought the best available to him or not

Your question has been answered a million times.

If you are in a job where it is written that you will not progress beyond junior manager level, will you work to the best of your abolity or just go thru the motions?

Which black fighter had the potential to be heavyweight champion during Tunneys reign but chose not to bother?

In boxing not fully preparing can have quite serious implications and judging by the performances of Mcvea, Langford, Wills, Siki, Jeannette amongst others they fought to their best in order to retain their pride.

The Mighty Atom wrote:Which black fighter had the potential to be heavyweight champion during Tunneys reign but chose not to bother?

In boxing not fully preparing can have quite serious implications and judging by the performances of Mcvea, Langford, Wills, Siki, Jeannette amongst others they fought to their best in order to retain their pride.

For the last time. It isn't about an individual but rater a group who could not fulfil their potential because of their race. People do not go into boxing to fight for pride. They fight for money and if the biggest prize is taken away, your motivation goes and you fight for (slave) wages.

Yeah Wills was fighting for slave wages wasn't he?
Like I said you have nothing to back up your claims and each boxers situation has to be considered differently

Dempsey didn't fight Wills who was his number one contender whereas Tunney fought Heeney who was his number one contender, cannot use the example of one to tar the rest.

The Mighty Atom wrote:Yeah Wills was fighting for slave wages wasn't he?
Like I said you have nothing to back up your claims and each boxers situation has to be considered differently

Dempsey didn't fight Wills who was his number one contender whereas Tunney fought Heeney who was his number one contender, cannot use the example of one to tar the rest.

Of course black boxers fighting for wages were paid less that white boxers (in that era).

Az, I can't be bothered arguing this any more shall we call it a truce and rip D4 for a bit instead?

azania wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:Yeah Wills was fighting for slave wages wasn't he?
Like I said you have nothing to back up your claims and each boxers situation has to be considered differently

Dempsey didn't fight Wills who was his number one contender whereas Tunney fought Heeney who was his number one contender, cannot use the example of one to tar the rest.

Of course black boxers fighting for wages were paid less that white boxers (in that era).

With the exception of Dempsey, Wills was getting paid more than most

The Mighty Atom wrote:

azania wrote:

The Mighty Atom wrote:Yeah Wills was fighting for slave wages wasn't he?
Like I said you have nothing to back up your claims and each boxers situation has to be considered differently

Dempsey didn't fight Wills who was his number one contender whereas Tunney fought Heeney who was his number one contender, cannot use the example of one to tar the rest.

Of course black boxers fighting for wages were paid less that white boxers (in that era).

With the exception of Dempsey, Wills was getting paid more than most

So its with the exception and dempsey and many others then.

Wills got paid upwards of $100,000 for fights which was more than many leading white boxers of the time

The Mighty Atom wrote:Wills got paid upwards of $100,000 for fights which was more than many leading white boxers of the time

And what do you think a white boxer of his ability would have received (other than a title shot also)?

A white boxer fighting in non title affairs wouldn't have received any more, he got an equal split with Luis Firpo who was a top ranked white heavyweight. Would have got more for fighting title fights but that's another argument.

As I said i'm bored of this now

The Mighty Atom wrote:A white boxer fighting in non title affairs wouldn't have received any more, he got an equal split with Luis Firpo who was a top ranked white heavyweight. Would have got more for fighting title fights but that's another argument.

As I said i'm bored of this now

OK. White and black boxers got equal pay during Jim Crow times. Heard it all now.

You seem far too hung up on the racial side of things and it ruins a lot of debates

Wills a contender got paid the same as Firpo also a contender, they were on the same level at the time and to be honest I couldn't care less who got paid what

The Mighty Atom wrote:You seem far too hung up on the racial side of things and it ruins a lot of debates

Wills a contender got paid the same as Firpo also a contender, they were on the same level at the time and to be honest I couldn't care less who got paid what

Personalising things again Atom. Tsk tsk.

How is personalising things you are hung up on racial issues and it quite clearly clouds your judgement

I back my opinions up with factual evidence you do not

The Mighty Atom wrote:How is personalising things you are hung up on racial issues and it quite clearly clouds your judgement

I back my opinions up with factual evidence you do not

Yep. Personalising things again.

Thought I'd just bump this up..everyone in agreement with this list?

Ali is and will always be number 1 for me.....

if they didn't have weight classes who would win...Ali.....Tough if he's naturally bigger...

Who transcended more than anyother on that list..

Who spent 17 years at the top of his profession.....beating the few guys that turned him over whilst doing it!!! Ali..

Would Ali lose to a Heavyweight Lamotta...no.

Foreman, Frazier and Liston were all time great heavyweights.....

No everything about Ali say's number 1..

Not called the greatest for nothing!!!

Olympic gold medallist for good measure.....What year did Robbo win..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Olympic gold medallist for good measure.....What year did Robbo win..

Slightly irrelevant. The amateurs and pros are totally different

Audley won gold...