v2 G.O.A.T The Semi Finals Match 1

The last 8 participants competed on Monday for the final four spots in the v2 GOAT, the first group was dominated by two men; Mohammed Ali and Roger Federer who totalled a combined 84% of the overall vote. It was Ali that takes the advantage into the next round after winning the group by just 1 vote. The second of Mondays match ups was a three horse race between Woods, Bradman and Pele, at COP Pele had the advantage and closed the day as group winner with 25 votes to runner up Bradman’s 21, a valiant effort from Woods who exits the tournament with 16 votes.

The first of today’s semi-finals kicks off with group 1 winner Mohammed Ali taking on Group 2 runner up Don Bradman

Please vote for the participant you believe has achieved the most in sport

Please leave a comment as to why you voted

Muhammad Ali- Boxing- Championed by 6oldenbhoy

"When I offered to take part in this exercise I was originally asked to champion another fighter. I had my reservations as, in my opinion, this man’s aura was built more on the reputation he had acquired rather than his in ring achievement (though I must admit he did achieve a heck of a lot). I had no such qualms with the second option, the self proclaimed ‘Greatest’ Muhammad Ali. At this point I must admit that, although I have been a fight fan for many years, some of my earliest memories are of watching Michael Carruth and Wayne McCullough in the Barcelona Olympics and no Saturday night was complete with watching the boxing on ITV, I have never been a massive fan of Ali. I have seen almost all of his fights, viewed all the major documentaries and read various articles on the man but I've always had an almost take it or leave it attitude towards him. However, upon undertaking this activity, I have found an admiration and respect for the man who would be a worthy winner of this accolade. His career encompassed everything, monumental highs, catastrophic lows, triumph in the face of adversity, not to mention controversy all now tinged with tragedy. To fit all of this into an article would be an impossible task, such was the effect he had on Boxing and the World around him.

Cassius Marcellus Clay Jr was born on the 17/1/1942 to a Methodist father and Baptist mother. Few could have predicted what this child would go on and accomplish. The story begins when at the age of twelve young Cassius had his bicycle stolen. A thirst for revenge drove him to his local boxing gym where he should such aptitude for the sport that in a mere six years he was crowned Olympic Light Heavyweight Champion in Rome in 1960. Nino Benvenuti, the darling of his home crowd, won the Val Barker Trophy but many thought this accolade belonged to Clay.

Upon returning home he promptly turned profession under the tutelage of Angelo Dundee. He quickly developed into a boxer fleet of foot with a stinging jab,lightning reflexes and with more than adequate power. Nineteen straight wins led to a title shot against the fearsome Sonny Liston. Going into the contest Clay was a 7/1 underdog, but won the title when Liston retired on his stool at the end of the sixth round. The rematch wouldn’t last as long, Liston going down in the first. Some claimed Liston took a dive, others claim it was a legitimate punch. The fight did create one the most iconic sporting images of the twentieth century, where Ali (shortly after the Liston fight he had changed his name to Cassius X, then to Muhammad Ali) stands over his fallen opponent screaming at him to continue. Ali went on to defend the title a further eight times.

Muhammad was stripped of his title soon after his final defense against Zora Folley. His boxing license was also revoked and was sentenced to five years in jail. He appealed and remained on bail but was unable to box for three and a half years. Eventually given a license to fight in Atlanta, Ali won the first of two comeback fights before challenging Joe Frazier for the undisputed Heavyweight Championship, in a bout now known as “The Fight of the Century”. It was a thriller from start to finish, Ali starting the faster, but Frazier slowly walked him down. Frazier was ahead on all scorecards going into the final round when he unleashed a tremendous left hook that put Ali on the canvas. Ali bravely rose and heard the final bell but lost a unanimous decision. It was noted that Ali did not have the usual bounce in his step and one could argue showed the effects of three and a half years out.

Ali would not challenge for the World title for another three years. He won thirteen of his next fourteen fights, avenging the only loss he suffered in this period. A win over Joe Frazier set up a bout with Big George Foreman. This was to be Ali’s finest hour. Going into the bout, entitled the “Rumble in the Jungle”, nobody was giving Ali a chance. Ali had suffered losses to both Ken Norton and Joe Frazier whereas Foreman had knocked both of the out in them in the second round. Ali started brightly enough, but then adopted a tactic of lying on the ropes and absorbing punishment from Foreman. Foreman punched but Ali blocked them, shooting out counters of his own at every chance. This tactic, which Ali would later describe as “Rope-a-Dope” would have been seen to be suicide to many but becoming increasingly effective as Foreman threw haymaker after haymaker to down Ali, but Ali took them and answered back with his own. Entering the eighth Foreman was visibly exhausted. Ali pounced, trapping him on the ropes pummeling him with a barrage of blow that put Foreman down. He was unable to answer the count and a New Champion was crowned. Ali defended the title a further three times before facing Joe Frazier in the final installment of their classic trilogy.

The “Thrilla in Manila” took place, funnily enough, in the Filipino capital in front of crowd of 28,000. What followed was fourteen rounds of unsheathed brutality before Frazier was retired on his stool. Frazier’s eyes were so badly swollen that he claimed he couldn't see the punches coming, yet still protested when Eddie Futch withdrew him from the contest. Ali led from the front punishing Frazier with hooks, jabs and uppercuts wobbling Frazier frequently. Frazier gamely fought back every time and in the mid rounds unleashed one of his trademark left hooks right to Ali’s jaw. This punch looked like it could have felled a tree, yet Ali took it and stayed on his feet. By the end of the fight Frazier was taking continuous punishment. In the fourteenth, Ali landed punch after punch on a more and a more helpless Frazier. It was a mercy when the fight was stopped. Ali described the contest as the closest thing to dying he had experienced, whilst showing humility, describing Frazier as the toughest man alive. A further six defenses of the title followed before he lost the title to “Neon” Leon Spinks. He won the title back in the return before retiring. A brief comeback last two fights, both defeats, though Ali was a shell of his former self by this stage.

When people talk of athletes transcending sport, Ali is the one who first comes to mind. When you ask the common man or women on the street who they most associate with the sport of Boxing, Ali’s name will be said most frequently. As big a fan as I am of the Klitschkos, the average person on the street would struggle to name either of them as Heavyweight Champion of the world. When Ali was Champion, it was the exact opposite. He was one of the most recognized faces in the world, never mind sportsmen. This was the reason Sports Illustrated named him Sportsman of the Century, as did the BBC. The Heavyweight Championship of the World was once talked of as the greatest prize in sport and it was fighters like Muhammad Ali that made it so. This is a sport that has so little margin for error. Moving your head even fractionally may have devastating results. As former Heavyweight title challenger Tex Cobb once said ""If you screw things up in tennis, it's 15-love. If you screw up in boxing, it's your ass."" Ali excelled at this sport even when he had returned a faded fighter physically from his imposed exile. However like all greats at any sport he found other ways to win. His in ring intelligence set him apart from his contemporaries when he had lost the bounce in his step and his reflexes had dulled. It must not be forgotten that he displayed all these skills and attributes in what was the golden period of Heavyweight boxing. While he is remembered for his talents by some, others will recall him for his mouth. Ali was the ultimate showman. The press loved him and although he could be vulgar and downright disrespectful to his opponents at times, it could be said that this hyped fights and helped him to get that mental edge on his opponent. As I alluded to in my opening paragraph, I had my doubts when I was asked to champion another fighter due to his record, I find Ali to be the complete package. His record stands alone as far as Heavyweights go, while he had the showmanship and charisma that contributed to his everlasting legacy on sport. Long after we are all gone people will still talk of Ali. The Ali of today has been ravaged by Parkinsonism, an unwanted souvenir of a career spanning twenty one years inside the ring. Yet to see him light the Olympic flame at the Atlanta games was a one of the most iconic moments of the 20th Century. To this day he continues to battle his condition with just as much courage as he exhibited throughout his career in the ring. It takes a brave man to step through those ropes and Ali has shown both through his career and the aftermath, that he is right up there with the bravest of them all.
"

Don Bradman- Cricket- Championed by Fists of fury

"Sir Donald Bradman
Australia
Test record: 6,996 runs in 80 innings at an average of 99.94 (29 centuries)

It is a rare phenomenon indeed where an individual can be undisputedly and universally acknowledged as the finest to have ever participated in a sport. It is rarer still for that individual to be recognised as the greatest there ever will be, despite seemingly no human being beyond Mystic Meg and the recently unmasked Eric Bristow possessing the gift of foresight.

For Pele, there is Maradona. For Nicklaus, there is Woods. For ‘The Don’, there is no rival. He stands alone.

Such are the statistics of Donald George Bradman. Plying his trade throughout the 1930’s and 40’s in the famous ‘baggy green’ of Australia, Bradman compiled a record almost twice as formidable as anyone else in the history of Test cricket. In a sport harking back to 1877, that is an astonishing feat. Bradman’s final Test average of 99.94 grows all the more impressive when you consider that the widely recognised barometer for a modern batsman attaining greatness is, in comparison, a mere 50. For a sportsman to be so far afield of his predecessors, contemporaries and successors is surely unique.

Perhaps indicative of the supremacy asserted almost every time The Don walked to the crease, former Australia captain Bill Woodfull proclaimed Bradman to be “worth three batsmen to Australia.” Where a team scoring 300 in one day is classed as operating at a fairly brisk pace, Bradman once single handedly made 309 on the first day of a Test against England at Headingley. Such dominance of bat over ball was unusually rare in the age of uncovered pitches, and remains so in today’s comparatively batsman friendly era.

Despite being the holder of records that will likely never be challenged in anger, let alone broken, statistics are but one facet of what makes a great sportsman. It often takes a truly inspirational individual to transcend the sport within which they participate. Much as Muhammad Ali transcended the sport of boxing, Don Bradman transcended cricket. Bradman emerged during a period of great economic hardship in Australia, and through the sheer force of his on-field performances it is said gave happiness and hope to a populace in the midst of depression.

You can't tell youngsters today of the attraction of the fellow. I mean, business used to stop in the town when Bradman was playing and likely to go in - all the offices closed, the shops closed; everybody went up to see him play. – England bowler Bill Bowes, 1983

Bradman would go on to exhibit a further trait of any world class sportsman: success in the face of adversity. After scoring an extraordinary 974 runs at an average of 139.14 in the 1930 Ashes tour of England, Bradman was infamously targeted by hostile and aggressive ‘Bodyline’ bowling during the 1932-33 return series in Australia – a theory designed with the sole intention of taking Bradman’s wicket, whereby the English fast bowlers would deliberately target the body of the batsman with a packed leg-side cordon of fielders lying in wait – The Don was almost rendered mortal with a series average of 56.57 (still a world class average by anyone’s standards). It was his own controversial tactic of combating bodyline by backing away and hitting the ball in an unorthodox manner in to the vacant off-side that won Bradman plaudits for attempting to find a solution to Bodyline.

It should be noted that, despite the whole of Australia being in uproar over the “vicious and unsporting” tactics employed by the English captain Douglas Jardine, and despite his own misgivings, Bradman conducted himself with dignity throughout and fought the onslaught in the way he knew best – by scoring runs. ‘Bodyline’, or ‘fast leg theory’ as it was also known, would later be outlawed.

Somewhat ironically, and perhaps unfortunately, the great Don Bradman is as much remembered for his final innings than the unsurpassed genius that had carved a path of destruction through the cricketing world wielding but a plank of willow in the preceding years. Striding to the crease at The Oval in 1948, Bradman required a mere 4 runs from his final Test innings to ensure an overall perfect Test average of 100. Whether through the emotion stirred in The Don through the adulation of the English crowd and opponents as he walked out that day (as much cheers of relief that his utter dominion over England’s bowlers was nearing an end, perhaps?), or the cricketing Gods inflicting a cruel twist of fate as if to reclaim the immortality they had lent him, Bradman was bowled for a duck by Warwickshire leg-spinner Eric Hollies, thus ending his career with that infamous average of 99.94 – a now magical figure in its own right. It will never be bettered.

Next to Mr. Winston Churchill, he was the most celebrated man in England during the summer of 1948. His appearances throughout the country were like one continuous farewell matinée. A miracle has been removed from among us. So must ancient Italy have felt when she heard of the death of Hannibal – cricket writer R.C. Robertson-Glasgow upon Bradman’s retirement, 1949

Sir Donald Bradman died in February of 2001 aged 92. It would have come as a surprise to many that he failed to get out of the 90’s. There are numerous others with a rightful claim to being the greatest sportsman that ever lived, but in Bradman there has surely never been another so superior to their peers. A genius, an icon and a gentleman; The Don satisfies all of the criteria.

Sir Donald George Bradman was, without any question, the greatest phenomenon in the history of cricket, indeed in the history of all ball games. – Wisden Almanack"

Simple really, Ali isn't even the best ever boxer, but he is often thought to be by casual fans, hence why he's in the semi-final. Bradman is certainly the best cricket player and is massively ahead of his rivals. Bradman it is.

Bradman. At least he was the best.

super_realist wrote:

No cucumber sandwich graphic?

Actually, this pair represents two GOAT candidates I voted against in the last round, so I have some reservations about both.

Bradman - clearly far and away the best batsman ever, but accepting that he was playing against a narrower field than today. Mostly played in Australia and England, so relatively rarely had to contend with the sort of dry, dusty spinning wickets prevalent in the sub-continent (although probably some of the 1930s pitches in Aus may have had a bit of that, and he did have to play on the traditional English 'sticky').

Ali - Maybe the best heavyweight, but his greatness is as much for what happened outside the ring as within. Clearly had three or four great wins (Liston, Frazier, Foreman) but also had a couple of slightly iffy losses during his near-peak years.

Judging purely on sporting achievement, I'm going with Bradman.

Ali got my vote.

Ali for me, too many question marks over Cricket and the era he played in.

Great to see that the cream of the crop has risen, which makes the decision that more difficult. Ali gets my nod for the way he electrified the world with his performances inside and outside the ring.

Let the 'eras' debates not detract from Bradman's achievements. Voted for Bradman.

IMVHO, Boxing as a sport harkens to a more primitive world, unlike Cricket.

To me, if Ali had a different sport, even perhaps Cricket or Tennis, he would be a wonderful GOAT.

SIR DON!!!

The king cucumber sarny muncher

Yay the final four matches what i chose and posted a while ago. Sticking with the order i chose then, therefore my vote goes to Ali.

Ali for me. Was he the best boxer? I don't know. But to me, 'greatest' implies something more than 'best' - it's the measure of a man as a sportsman, and if that man is a boxer, then 'greatest' implies more than just what is achieved during the ring, it's everything that is achieved in and out of the ring during his time as a boxer. Thus no boxer, or sportsman, has achieved more, in sporting terms, than Ali IMHO.

Lots of dismissal of Ali, as just the 'Casual fans' choice. Interesting comments coming from those able to mock the poor deluded casual fan from a position of 'in the know' status.

I 'm joking before anyone gets defensive, but Ali had no losses during what any objective critic would consider his prime years. Most believe we missed his prime years, but from what we did see, they were mid-late 60's. what defines his greatness is, in part, his ability to be hugely competitive in what is considered the golden age of heavyweights when he was past his prime. It is true that his charisma and self publicising nature as sport came into people's' living rooms made him thr most iconic figure on the planet. He was way more than just that though.


It's chalk and cheese here. Statistically, the best sportsman ever against a guy who's stats don't look that impressive. Sugar ray Robinson tops almost every pound for pound goat list in boxing... Quite rightly too. But he didn't beat the 'unbeatable' beast that was sonny Liston, when he was just a cocky kid. He didn't beat the 'unbeatable' George foreman when past his best, and wasnt operating in the goldrn era of the most prestigious weight class. Ali stunned the world twice, and that's not underplaying it.

Depends how you define greatness, no beef with voting for the brilliant bradman, but too cliched to write off Ali as all mouth and no trousers.

Gone Ali - great achievements in an era of undoubted strength for his sport against Bradman's great achievements in an era of undoubted limitation.

The skill of cricket is there and to me is ahead of that in boxing but the athleticism is severely lacking. On balance for me Boxing requires the better balance between the two and so Ali triumphs.

Admittedly it's not Bradman's fault as he could only go up against what's there at the time but not enough to sway me this time.

Close call and a mind change was involved but in the end Ali.

Talking about limitation.
How many people actually box? I only know one person who does.

Well said Milky, there tends to be something of a reaction from people who feel they know a lot about the sport to back themselves away from the man in the street choice or well known names and Ali is probably the most high profile victim of this. He may not be regarded as the best boxer of all time, but anyone who considered him as such is not coming too far out of leftfield because as you have alluded to any fighter who can boast a winning record against the lines of Liston, Patterson, Frazier, Foreman and Norton across a ten year period is a serious fighter and far more than a creation of hype.

Have seen a lot argue he is not the greatest boxer ever, but have seen plenty argue likewise with Pele and Federer yet they find themselves in the final four. There are eminently sensible reasons to vote for Bradman in this, and I am still undecided between the two but folk should not for a minute think Ali is only hear because of his fame outside the ring, he deserves his place in the semis as much as anybody else.

Bradman for me all day long. Miles ahead of his peers at the time and anyone since. Also they had to change the laws of the game to eradicate a tactic that was employed to 'control' him. He still averaged over 50 in that series I beleive. Which any modern day batsman would snatch your hand off for.

What do those voting for ali think about his conversion to a particularly hard line form of islam?

I think he had freedom of choice and that it is irrelevant in the context of his sporting GOAT credentials.

McLaren wrote:What do those voting for ali think about his conversion to a particularly hard line form of islam?

Nothing wrong with that Mac, unless of course he tries to force his views on others.

Ali easily, statistically bradman is no better than Gretzky but he bit the dust rounds ago.

super_realist wrote:

McLaren wrote:What do those voting for ali think about his conversion to a particularly hard line form of islam?

Nothing wrong with that Mac, unless of course he tries to force his views on others.

Super please tell me you are not one of those people who lets people off as long as they say "but it's my religious belief"

McLaren wrote:What do those voting for ali think about his conversion to a particularly hard line form of islam?

I'm all for it, he can do what he wants. Nothing at all to do with his sporting achievements.

McLaren wrote:

super_realist wrote:

McLaren wrote:What do those voting for ali think about his conversion to a particularly hard line form of islam?

Nothing wrong with that Mac, unless of course he tries to force his views on others.

Super please tell me you are not one of those people who lets people off as long as they say "but it's my religious belief"

No Mac, I'm not, You know that I think religious belief is a sign of mental illness, however if these people want to be mentally ill in their own homes and don't bother anyone else or try and force it on others then I don't care what they believe.
As a Hitchens fan Mac, I thought you'd think the same way.

With regard to Ali and his embracing of the Nation of Islam you have to put it in the context of the time. Was at a point when black people could not eat in certain restaurants or attend certain universities. Whilst I have little time for the nation of islam’s views or segregationist approach you can easily see why they would appeal to a black man who faced such obstacles and prejudice on a daily basis. Should also be noted whilst Ali is still a muslim his views and opinion have soften greatly as the situation has improved in the states and he has also matured and aged.

Context of the time.

Or just simply bat mental.

The fact is he is a boxer. They go mad more than not. It comes with the territory.

If anyone thinks he was in his mind when he converted only has to understand he also changed his name from Cassias at the same time.

He was a mental Egomaniac(but in a good way I suppose)

While Ali was, in all probability, the greatest heavyweight ever, much of his status as a sportsman rests on his iconic status away from the ring. However, at least part of that status as an icon of black America rests on soundbites fed to him by the Nation of Islam, while his treatment of other black boxers, particularly Joe Frazier undermines, for me, the idea that Ali was some outstanding symbol of black equality.
Of course, it is true that Don Bradman wasn't, neccessarily, the most popular of men with all of his colleagues either, but his legacy doesn't really rest on his status as a symbol of Australian independance, although he is sometimes shown in that light. Rather, Bradman's legacy rests on the fact that he, undoubtedly, is the greatest batsman in the history of cricket. For that reason, the fact that Bradman's status within his own sport is unquestionable, and that his legacy is based primarily on his sporting acheivements, I'm going to go with him.

Rowley wrote:With regard to Ali and his embracing of the Nation of Islam you have to put it in the context of the time. Was at a point when black people could not eat in certain restaurants or attend certain universities. Whilst I have little time for the nation of islam’s views or segregationist approach you can easily see why they would appeal to a black man who faced such obstacles and prejudice on a daily basis. Should also be noted whilst Ali is still a muslim his views and opinion have soften greatly as the situation has improved in the states and he has also matured and aged.

You can easily make a case asto why anyone joins extreme Islamic fundamentalistic groups. Look at the current time, Id say not being allowed to eat in the same restaurant as a white person probably pales into insignificance with the Wests constant fascination with invading and occupying Islamic states resulting in massive death tolls.

I went with Bradman. Hard to get head round his statistics.

Ali it has to be said must be the most recognised face in sport.

Diggers wrote:

Rowley wrote:With regard to Ali and his embracing of the Nation of Islam you have to put it in the context of the time. Was at a point when black people could not eat in certain restaurants or attend certain universities. Whilst I have little time for the nation of islam’s views or segregationist approach you can easily see why they would appeal to a black man who faced such obstacles and prejudice on a daily basis. Should also be noted whilst Ali is still a muslim his views and opinion have soften greatly as the situation has improved in the states and he has also matured and aged.

You can easily make a case asto why anyone joins extreme Islamic fundamentalistic groups. Look at the current time, Id say not being allowed to eat in the same restaurant as a white person probably pales into insignificance with the Wests constant fascination with invading and occupying Islamic states resulting in massive death tolls.

Can I just clarify I don't particularly agree with Ali's decision to join the NOI or indeed anyone who holds religious views, just trying to explain the appeal for someone like Ali at the time. Personally I think a lot of his views at the time were ridiculous and support my oft repeated view that the deification of the man is as ridiculous as it is puke inducing, but for me it does not in one iota diminish what he achieved as a soprtsman.

legendkillarV2 wrote:I went with Bradman. Hard to get head round his statistics.

Yet the votes went against Gretzky, who has just as good (if not better) stats.

The case being they are mentally ill Diggers.

Azzy Mahmood wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:I went with Bradman. Hard to get head round his statistics.

Yet the votes went against Gretzky, who has just as good (if not better) stats.

for the record I voted Gretsky in the previous round, but I'm sure someone (in a previous round) posted a statistical comparison of how far ahead of the next best Bradman, Gretsky, Federer, Nicklaus etc. were and Bradman came out quite comfortably on top, with Gretsky equally comfortable in second place

For this one I voted Bradman: Ali may be the bigger icon, but his pure statistics make Bradman the better sportsman IMO.

Azzy Mahmood wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:I went with Bradman. Hard to get head round his statistics.

Yet the votes went against Gretzky, who has just as good (if not better) stats.

In fairness I don't follow hockey and haven't seen his stats so I didn't want to cast my vote. However with Bradman I do follow cricket and seen some footage of him in action so I do have an idea and opinion of those statistics. I have heard of Gretzky, but shockingly never seen him in action

I can't comment on how the board view Gretzky and his achievements.

Not sure how Gretskys stats are better than bradmans tbh..

Ali Bumaye!

Union good to see you back. Long term or flying visit?

Passing through like a storm, mate, had to lend my support to the greatest.

Work is getting in the way at the moment, but I hope to be back soon.

Mad for Chelsea wrote:

Azzy Mahmood wrote:

legendkillarV2 wrote:I went with Bradman. Hard to get head round his statistics.

Yet the votes went against Gretzky, who has just as good (if not better) stats.

for the record I voted Gretsky in the previous round, but I'm sure someone (in a previous round) posted a statistical comparison of how far ahead of the next best Bradman, Gretsky, Federer, Nicklaus etc. were and Bradman came out quite comfortably on top, with Gretsky equally comfortable in second place

For this one I voted Bradman: Ali may be the bigger icon, but his pure statistics make Bradman the better sportsman IMO.

better sports man? surely that would be the quickest, fittest, strongest, best stamina, etc etc and we all know ali would win hands down in all those aspects

Whilst the other semi is a piece of cake for anyone who watched the 1970 World Cup, this one is exceptionally difficult.

Whilst Sobers was the greatest all round cricketer, Bradman was the greatest cricketer. By that, I mean Bradman was the master of his own cricketing speciality - batting. His supremacy was unrivalled then and remains so to this day. I cannot foresee it ever being surpassed.

I always viewed Ali as The Greatest - that after all was how millions knew him. However, so many knowledgeable boxing posters here do not judge him the greatest of his and their sport. Whilst such views cannot be ignored, can his impact outside the ring and enduring legacy still win this semi final for him?

As far as my vote goes, it would have done but for Ali's dreadful error in fighting on too long. The bravery, determination and skill shown then earns my respect and I have every sympathy for the harm done to him. However, such decision and his sad plight today tarnishes his sport. Much of the blame for that rests with his advisers but they were the advisers he freely chose.

At this stage of the competition, we have to judge all remaining candidates over the entirety of their careers. The mistaken decisions at the end of Ali's must be viewed with sorrow but cannot be ignored by me. I wish him well but vote for Bradman.

i went for ali, while being a cricket fan we all know its hardly the most taxing sports to play. fantastic technique with mental strength is what bradman had and are the key to any great batsman. ali had these also in abundance but with fantastic physical sporting attributes as well. boxing has to be one of the toughest sports out there and to be the greatest in the toughest division in its greatest era is really a stand out achievement.

i would also suggest that while people seem to be dismissing ali as the man on the streets vote there must be something in it that, ali is probably the most recognizable sports person ever, i doubt a fair few few on here would recognize bradman if shown his picture. transcending the whole of sport not just boxing is not something ali should be dismissed for but celebrated.

would also like to add that this p4p stuff with SRR isnt really relevant in this for me, its a totally made up thing in which nothing can be proven. if srr and ali met in the ring srr would get slaughtered. i dont see ambrose and walsh getting judged separately than wasim akram and imran. xavi still gets judges the same as yaya toure. out of all the major sports boxing is unique in the fact that they split it into weights due to safety issues. the fact still remains that ali is the best boxer to step through the ring, perhaps his achievements don't match up to srr but there hardly far behind

If Ali hadn't been such a loudmouth and the self-proclaimed 'greatest of all time' would we really be talking about him as much as we do? In any case, the most famous and iconic sportsman of all time wins this one easily. Bradman doesn't belong anywhere near a last four of the GOAT.

McLaren wrote:What do those voting for ali think about his conversion to a particularly hard line form of islam?

To be fair the 'Nation of Islam' has nothing to do with Islam except the name. It was a black nationalist/socio-political movement.

Looks like Bradman is heading for the cucumber sandwiches and devon slice.

Stella wrote:Talking about limitation.
How many people actually box? I only know one person who does.

and I know no-one who plays cricket - swings and roundabouts.

mystiroakey wrote:Not sure how Gretskys stats are better than bradmans tbh..

He has 50% more points than his closest rivals most of whom played more games than he did, more than comparable to Bradmans as well as doing it in a more physically demanding sport.

Imperial Ghosty wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:Not sure how Gretskys stats are better than bradmans tbh..

He has 50% more points than his closest rivals most of whom played more games than he did, more than comparable to Bradmans as well as doing it in a more physically demanding sport.

and against lots of different teams in a strong professional era (and he didn't have to stop for cucumber sandwiches)

super_realist wrote:

Imperial Ghosty wrote:

mystiroakey wrote:Not sure how Gretskys stats are better than bradmans tbh..

He has 50% more points than his closest rivals most of whom played more games than he did, more than comparable to Bradmans as well as doing it in a more physically demanding sport.

and against lots of different teams in a strong professional era (and he didn't have to stop for cucumber sandwiches)

Bradmans averge is almost 100% better,therefore gretskys is 'less' not 'more' than comparable