England focus on the NZ in preparation for Wales....!

An insight into England preparation for thei Grand Slam finale in Cardiff.

By Robert Kitson for The Guardian

It may sound bizarre in the final week of a Six Nations campaign but England have been talking more about New Zealand than Wales this week. The thinking in the visitors' camp is simple: if England play the way they did against the All Blacks in December they will be almost guaranteed a grand slam. Spend too much time worrying about Wales's strengths and the psychology becomes very different.


Hence the positive noises emerging from Bagshot before England's players departed for Cardiff, several of them driving their own cars rather than catching the team bus. The English management reckon the more composed side under the screeching pressure will emerge on top and Stuart Lancaster, the head coach, opted for a deliberately soothing tone after confirming his starting XV. "This week is more about relaxing everyone, rather than ramping them up," he stressed, fully aware that a packed Millennium Stadium and a tantalising title decider will be motivation enough.

For the full article link below

http://m.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/mar/14/england-wales-six-nations

This week is more about relaxing everyone, rather than ramping them up

All very well in the build up...but when they walk on to that pitch i want them coming out like rampaging Rhinos....

PS...i wish we'd resign the NZ game to the history books. Yes it was a great notch on the board...but its gone...move on and focus on erm...Wales

Tell them not to forget to put a claim in for the £5.60 at the Bridge Toll. Wales are not New Zealand - The task ahead is qualitatively very very different. After winning 4/4 they have gone and changed their approach - Strange but it wreaks of a little self-doubt that's trying to be repaired after the Italy game. You have to ask yourself why it is that many of the english posters have become nervous over the past few days mirroring the english squad whilst a lot of the welsh seem relatively relaxed. IMO there is nothing between these 2 sides but talking to people this morning and reading the posts there seems to be more of a positive feel about the welsh set up than the english have of their own. All this of course might well count for nothing come Saturday. And if it doesn't can someone remind those english players to still put a claim in for the toll. If HERSH is at the game I will put a claim in for the Troll

GeordieFalcon wrote:

This week is more about relaxing everyone, rather than ramping them up

All very well in the build up...but when they walk on to that pitch i want them coming out like rampaging Rhinos....

PS...i wish we'd resign the NZ game to the history books. Yes it was a great notch on the board...but its gone...move on and focus on erm...Wales

S'ok apparently North wants a 'bloodbath':

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21795152

F'ck it. Let's just arm everyone do away with the ball. - North's bloodbath comments put Ashton's 'I want to hurt people' comment to shame in terms of thuggery. I'm sure he will be defended to the hilt with the Welshers though.

With attitudes and comments like this from sports 'role models' i'm sure it won't be too long until Rugby is ruined by wendyball tribal violence.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

This week is more about relaxing everyone, rather than ramping them up

All very well in the build up...but when they walk on to that pitch i want them coming out like rampaging Rhinos....

PS...i wish we'd resign the NZ game to the history books. Yes it was a great notch on the board...but its gone...move on and focus on erm...Wales

Lancaster seems see the win against the All Blacks as by far the greatest achievement of this squads career. The way England played was perfection, they made no mistakes.

Lancaster seems to enjoy the cerebral side of coaching, he talks about the players mental state a great deal, leaving the physical attributes to Farrell, Catt and Rowntree.

its not the game itself, but the way the Players played.

Sure it seemed like a perfect storm, but the decision making, composure under pressure and our attacking 'defence' really worked well and we played as if we had 500+ caps instead of the 200?

AlastairW wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

This week is more about relaxing everyone, rather than ramping them up

All very well in the build up...but when they walk on to that pitch i want them coming out like rampaging Rhinos....

PS...i wish we'd resign the NZ game to the history books. Yes it was a great notch on the board...but its gone...move on and focus on erm...Wales

S'ok apparently North wants a 'bloodbath':

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21795152

F'ck it. Let's just arm everyone do away with the ball. - North's bloodbath comments put Ashton's 'I want to hurt people' comment to shame in terms of thuggery. I'm sure he will be defended to the hilt with the Welshers though.

With attitudes and comments like this from sports 'role models' i'm sure it won't be too long until Rugby is ruined by wendyball tribal violence.

Here is what the BBC actually said.

"George North says Wales fans want victory amid a bloodbath in Saturday's Six Nations decider against England in Cardiff."

Lets not get too neurotic about North's figure of speech please, he's a young lad who has a very good disciplinary record so can we go a little easy just for the sake of staying on track here - Its such a good event that we're all excited about. Lets not digress in a toxic fashion please

maestegmafia wrote:

AlastairW wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

This week is more about relaxing everyone, rather than ramping them up

All very well in the build up...but when they walk on to that pitch i want them coming out like rampaging Rhinos....

PS...i wish we'd resign the NZ game to the history books. Yes it was a great notch on the board...but its gone...move on and focus on erm...Wales

S'ok apparently North wants a 'bloodbath':

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21795152

F'ck it. Let's just arm everyone do away with the ball. - North's bloodbath comments put Ashton's 'I want to hurt people' comment to shame in terms of thuggery. I'm sure he will be defended to the hilt with the Welshers though.

With attitudes and comments like this from sports 'role models' i'm sure it won't be too long until Rugby is ruined by wendyball tribal violence.

Here is what the BBC actually said.

"George North says Wales fans want victory amid a bloodbath in Saturday's Six Nations decider against England in Cardiff."

Direct quote was '...and whenever we play England there seems to be this long, long rivalry that everyone just wants a bloodbath, really.'

I'm all for huge physicality, but that's just thuggery. I'm hoping for a good, hard played physical game as much as anyone, but after Ashton's comment and the reaction that got from certain Welsh posters it's just hypocrisy and double standards to now defend comments like this.

RubyGuby wrote:Lets not get too neurotic about North's figure of speech please, he's a young lad who has a very good disciplinary record so can we go a little easy just for the sake of staying on track here - Its such a good event that we're all excited about. Lets not digress in a toxic fashion please

oh well, if he's young that's alright then .....

Sarcasm aside, it's not. He's a role model player in a national team and he needs more media coaching or he's just showing his true colours as a thug - as you say though Ruby, he's got a great disciplinary record and this seems quite out of character from interviews I've seen from him, but most of that is thinly veiled racism/hatred of the English, which comes off as a little sad. If he wants a bloodbath there are plenty of pubs all over the UK can accommodate on both Friday & Saturday nights.

AlastairW wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:Lets not get too neurotic about North's figure of speech please, he's a young lad who has a very good disciplinary record so can we go a little easy just for the sake of staying on track here - Its such a good event that we're all excited about. Lets not digress in a toxic fashion please

oh well, if he's young that's alright then .....

Sarcasm aside, it's not. He's a role model player in a national team and he needs more media coaching or he's just showing his true colours as a thug. If he wants a bloodbath there are plenty of pubs all over the UK can accommodate on both Friday & Saturday nights.

Even if we ignore the misquote, just for the sake of some mindless wummery, maybe he was just responding to Christopher Ashton's claim that he wanted to 'hurt people'.

Let the two of them sort it out between themselves I say?

damage_13 wrote:its not the game itself, but the way the Players played.

Sure it seemed like a perfect storm, but the decision making, composure under pressure and our attacking 'defence' really worked well and we played as if we had 500+ caps instead of the 200?

One of the man factors from the Kiwi victory that England should take to Cardiff was that they won by kicking their goals.

6 out of 6 kickable penalties compared to the Kiwis 0 from 2 kickable pens. There were only 27 pens awarded in that match. 13/14 split.

Far more pens are being awarded currently in this six nations.

Other than that the Kiwis, unusually failed to get to a lot of their tackles.

Feck me, have they let all the neurotics out for a day - Robshaw sais its going to me an arm wrestle, Cole sais its going to be brutal North sais its going to be a blood bath - Get over it for feck sake or are you one of the new breed of PC fans -

Alastair,I would suggest that you reread the article and you may see that you have misinterpreted the words.If you still hold your viewpoint have a word with an adult who could explain it to you.

AlastairW wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:Lets not get too neurotic about North's figure of speech please, he's a young lad who has a very good disciplinary record so can we go a little easy just for the sake of staying on track here - Its such a good event that we're all excited about. Lets not digress in a toxic fashion please

oh well, if he's young that's alright then .....

Sarcasm aside, it's not. He's a role model player in a national team and he needs more media coaching or he's just showing his true colours as a thug - as you say though Ruby, he's got a great disciplinary record and this seems quite out of character from interviews I've seen from him, but most of that is thinly veiled racism/hatred of the English, which comes off as a little sad. If he wants a bloodbath there are plenty of pubs all over the UK can accommodate on both Friday & Saturday nights.

Hey Alistair.

You should start your own thread with this.

Your using it to derail this thread which is not of the same topic.

RubyGuby wrote:Feck me, have they let all the neurotics out for a day - Robshaw sais its going to me an arm wrestle, Cole sais its going to be brutal North sais its going to be a blood bath - Get over it for feck sake or are you one of the new breed of PC fans -

Shouldn't have expected much else from any of the one-eyed Welshes. I actually agreed with you on most stuff you wrote, but you read what you want RG.

as you say though Ruby, he's got a great disciplinary record and this seems quite out of character from interviews I've seen from him, but most of that is thinly veiled racism/hatred of the English,

Well wasnt North born in Kings Lynn?

The pre match mind games have started, simple as that...enjoy it...

Don't worry Al "there'll always be an England" - You just need to stop falling for the media shoite

AlastairW wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

AlastairW wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

This week is more about relaxing everyone, rather than ramping them up

All very well in the build up...but when they walk on to that pitch i want them coming out like rampaging Rhinos....

PS...i wish we'd resign the NZ game to the history books. Yes it was a great notch on the board...but its gone...move on and focus on erm...Wales

S'ok apparently North wants a 'bloodbath':

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21795152

F'ck it. Let's just arm everyone do away with the ball. - North's bloodbath comments put Ashton's 'I want to hurt people' comment to shame in terms of thuggery. I'm sure he will be defended to the hilt with the Welshers though.

With attitudes and comments like this from sports 'role models' i'm sure it won't be too long until Rugby is ruined by wendyball tribal violence.

Here is what the BBC actually said.

"George North says Wales fans want victory amid a bloodbath in Saturday's Six Nations decider against England in Cardiff."

Direct quote was '...and whenever we play England there seems to be this long, long rivalry that everyone just wants a bloodbath, really.'

I'm all for huge physicality, but that's just thuggery. I'm hoping for a good, hard played physical game as much as anyone, but after Ashton's comment and the reaction that got from certain Welsh posters it's just hypocrisy and double standards to now defend comments like this.

Read it again and get its meaning. North is reflecting on what the Welsh fans want not what he sees happening on the field of play. Anyway the only blood bath we would have playing England is if there any blood capsules in the English mouths.

Forget the mind games, now I just want to see North and Ashton have a fight!

Anyways, we should stop derailing Maes's thread, like he says.

I think the only blood bath will occur if Ashton and Tuilangi start fighting again

RubyGuby wrote:I think the only blood bath will occur if Ashton and Tuilangi start fighting again

Doubt it. Tuilagi is a good player but punches like a girl and...

Stop derailing the thread!

GeordieFalcon wrote:

as you say though Ruby, he's got a great disciplinary record and this seems quite out of character from interviews I've seen from him, but most of that is thinly veiled racism/hatred of the English,

Well wasnt North born in Kings Lynn?

The pre match mind games have started, simple as that...enjoy it...

Yes he was your point being? He was in Hong Kong before he was out of nappies and in Wales by the time he was 3 where he remained. I suggest you ask him if you get the chance, in fact tweet him, he will reply. I know both him and his family, by the way did you see his ENGLISH father run on to the field to congratulate his Welsh playing son. Get over it, it is stale, North is as Welsh as they come and a fluent Welsh speaker to boot.

damage_13 wrote:its not the game itself, but the way the Players played.

Sure it seemed like a perfect storm, but the decision making, composure under pressure and our attacking 'defence' really worked well and we played as if we had 500+ caps instead of the 200?

Yes, it really was a remarkable performance. What was also apparent was that unusually the kiwis fell off tackles, dropped balls, missed kicks and struggled at the set piece.

The performance worked psychologically as well as physically.

RubyGuby wrote: Don't worry Al "there'll always be an England" - You just need to stop falling for the media shoite

.... yeah, maybe so

Back on topic. NZ game is only worth looking at in terms of a good past reference point of when this England team 'clicked', reading anything more into it a bit pointless. That match is done with months ago.

I think Wales are focussing on last years Twickenham match

I don't see anything wrong with looking back at past matches for inspiration.

The 03 RWC winners often go back to the 1997 26-26 draw with NZ as the match which they saw as the beginning of their journey... the match where they first realised what it took to be on an even keel with the best in the world. Guys like Richard Hill were vomiting at halftime due to the physical exertion.. they had never played with such intensity.

Back to the 2012 matchwhere they out-did themselves, they genuinely touched on their potential rather than just talking about it. They know if they play like that week in week out very few if any will be able to keep pace... and thats the challenge, consistency at the highest level...not just for 10mins or a half... for a full 80 mins every game.

You don't need to gain inspiration solely from victory. Performances and reactions are almost as important. Had Wales not reacted against Ireland in such a positive and channelled way they could have lost by 50 and it would have destroyed their season.

rainbow-warrior wrote:[Read it again and get its meaning. North is reflecting on what the Welsh fans want not what he sees happening on the field of play. Anyway the only blood bath we would have playing England is if there any blood capsules in the English mouths.

Who sir? me sir?

rainbow-warrior wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

as you say though Ruby, he's got a great disciplinary record and this seems quite out of character from interviews I've seen from him, but most of that is thinly veiled racism/hatred of the English,

Well wasnt North born in Kings Lynn?

The pre match mind games have started, simple as that...enjoy it...

Yes he was your point being? He was in Hong Kong before he was out of nappies and in Wales by the time he was 3 where he remained. I suggest you ask him if you get the chance, in fact tweet him, he will reply. I know both him and his family, by the way did you see his ENGLISH father run on to the field to congratulate his Welsh playing son. Get over it, it is stale, North is as Welsh as they come and a fluent Welsh speaker to boot.

Aw wind yer f*%king neck in man! Didnt i say hey its all mind games enjoy it.

New Zealand also played into England's hands by being lured into an arm-wrestle - machismo got the better of them.

England are always virtually impossible to outmuscle - too big and strong individually and (especially) collectively. Their team work is always exceptional.

Hopefully Wales will spend some time watching the Italy/England tapes, rather than the AB game.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

rainbow-warrior wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

as you say though Ruby, he's got a great disciplinary record and this seems quite out of character from interviews I've seen from him, but most of that is thinly veiled racism/hatred of the English,

Well wasnt North born in Kings Lynn?

The pre match mind games have started, simple as that...enjoy it...

Yes he was your point being? He was in Hong Kong before he was out of nappies and in Wales by the time he was 3 where he remained. I suggest you ask him if you get the chance, in fact tweet him, he will reply. I know both him and his family, by the way did you see his ENGLISH father run on to the field to congratulate his Welsh playing son. Get over it, it is stale, North is as Welsh as they come and a fluent Welsh speaker to boot.

Aw wind yer f*%king neck in man! Didnt i say hey its all mind games enjoy it.

Ohhhhhhhh rattle pram out hahahaha

Yes i have a major hangover so maybe a tad touchy....

Get over it Geordie, you'll have a bigger hangover on Sunday and after Newcastle banging one in late on last night you're on a roll. We all want to win on Sat end of - but its not fair on these players when they get misquoted etc (Ashton aside of course) - Good luck mate and go easy on the Mrs, she's a bag of nerves with the way you are

Ha ha...i know mate...shes coming to watch it with me on saturday...so i can have a bad head on Sunday with no complaints

Casartelli wrote:New Zealand also played into England's hands by being lured into an arm-wrestle - machismo got the better of them.

England are always virtually impossible to outmuscle - too big and strong individually and (especially) collectively. Their team work is always exceptional.

Hopefully Wales will spend some time watching the Italy/England tapes, rather than the AB game.

Not this team, and not this pack. Wales have an obviously bigger and more powerful team. In the pack we have exactly zero ball carriers of genuine note. A few can put in a bit of a shift, but no-one like Ian Evans for example. Our scrum this year is, at best, steady, but has also looked like it's creaking.

With the back-row SL has picked he's obviously looking for quick rucking and moving the point of attack quickly. The problem is, it only works if you can punch some holes first. Wales' defence, discipline, and fitness are a notch up. I actually think they're a harder team to go up the middle of than NZ, but I think if you can do that you have a better chance of beating them. I think England will lose this one.

Almost completely off topic but living as I did in Mumbles it was quite shocking the number of English father Welsh mother kids there were about. Generally the couples had met elsewhere and then came back to the mother's land to raise the kids.

lostinwales wrote:Almost completely off topic but living as I did in Mumbles it was quite shocking the number of English father Welsh mother kids there were about. Generally the couples had met elsewhere and then came back to the mother's land to raise the kids.

Well welsh women are exceptional and the Gower peninsula is one of britains treasures, it all makes good sense to me.

Where have you moved to?

Taffineastbourne wrote:Alastair,I would suggest that you reread the article and you may see that you have misinterpreted the words.If you still hold your viewpoint have a word with an adult who could explain it to you.

Poor taste in comment there Taffineastbourne. Please refrain from doing that again.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

This week is more about relaxing everyone, rather than ramping them up

All very well in the build up...but when they walk on to that pitch i want them coming out like rampaging Rhinos....

PS...i wish we'd resign the NZ game to the history books. Yes it was a great notch on the board...but its gone...move on and focus on erm...Wales

Why exactly, as a team they need to draw on experiences (which this young team don't have many off) to put them in a positive mindset.

Biltong wrote:

Taffineastbourne wrote:Alastair,I would suggest that you reread the article and you may see that you have misinterpreted the words.If you still hold your viewpoint have a word with an adult who could explain it to you.

Poor taste in comment there Taffineastbourne. Please refrain from doing that again.

Hi Bill

Alistair started his own thread on George North within this thread on rugby Psychology, can your clever bods move it somewhere else? It's all off topic and not very relevant.

maestegmafia wrote:

lostinwales wrote:Almost completely off topic but living as I did in Mumbles it was quite shocking the number of English father Welsh mother kids there were about. Generally the couples had met elsewhere and then came back to the mother's land to raise the kids.

Well welsh women are exceptional and the Gower peninsula is one of britains treasures, it all makes good sense to me.

Where have you moved to?

The land of my fathers (NW England) - (scarily so - my family dates back at least 400 years within 10 miles of where I live and I had no idea before moving there)

@maestegmafia and yes.. the NZ performance helped somewhat. Confidence, aggression, heads-up rugby, even when the All Blacks started running in tries.

Its the little things that annoy me over the last few matches, first pass results in a jumping catch at or above head height slowing any momentum, line is too flat, and players don't have confidence to fix the defence before the offload.

Still.. it'll be interesting to see the teams mindset in play during the first 15mins. I'm hoping we start like we did vs Italy, but actually look to finish rather than go through the motions unsupported.

AlastairW wrote:

rainbow-warrior wrote:[Read it again and get its meaning. North is reflecting on what the Welsh fans want not what he sees happening on the field of play. Anyway the only blood bath we would have playing England is if there any blood capsules in the English mouths.

Who sir? me sir?

Apart from the fact that Tom Williams isn't in the squad, I think you'll find that he played for Wales at U16 and U19...

Anyway, having had a very sensible "Excuses if Wales win the title" thread, this is now getting silly. The meeja have taken what North said out of context to make a more dramatic headline. That's what they do. Get over it.

And if you read it carefully, England have focused on making their preparation for the Wales game like the preparation for their most successful recent game, which also came at the end of a bruising campaign and a couple of unconvincing performances. They're not harking back to the game (which was, after all, almost as long ago as their last Grand Slam and RWC 2003) so much as the way they prepared for it and how they got into the right mental state. Given that much has been made of "Wales have nothing to lose, England have everything to lose", trying to get the players back to a mindset where they had nothing to lose is a sensible option.

lostinwales wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

lostinwales wrote:Almost completely off topic but living as I did in Mumbles it was quite shocking the number of English father Welsh mother kids there were about. Generally the couples had met elsewhere and then came back to the mother's land to raise the kids.

Well welsh women are exceptional and the Gower peninsula is one of britains treasures, it all makes good sense to me.

Where have you moved to?

The land of my fathers (NW England) - (scarily so - my family dates back at least 400 years within 10 miles of where I live and I had no idea before moving there)

Excellent, a beautiful part of the world as well. Lucky you.

What are your thoughts on Lancaster's idea of using the All Blacks game as a focus for the teams perpetration for Cardiff?

Lancaster is from up your way, Cumbrian I think?

maestegmafia wrote:

lostinwales wrote:Almost completely off topic but living as I did in Mumbles it was quite shocking the number of English father Welsh mother kids there were about. Generally the couples had met elsewhere and then came back to the mother's land to raise the kids.

Well welsh women are exceptional and the Gower peninsula is one of britains treasures, it all makes good sense to me.

Where have you moved to?

You can take the valleys out of the girl, but you can't take the girl out of the valleys, perhaps?

The Welsh team should steer clear of anyone coughing and spluttering in an English accent.Beware the norovirus,it is England's most effective weapon!

maestegmafia wrote:
One of the man factors from the Kiwi victory that England should take to Cardiff was that they won by kicking their goals.

6 out of 6 kickable penalties compared to the Kiwis 0 from 2 kickable pens. There were only 27 pens awarded in that match. 13/14 split.

It's not like New Zealand were kicking for the corner from the start though - very few of those penalties were in England's half (at least not until we were out of sight and New Zealand had to go for tries). I think the main factor in the win was that Wood, Youngs, Launchbury, Robshaw etc were hitting New Zealand behind the gainline and in both attack and defense were committing heavily to the breakdown. The second of those could be the key factor against you guys with Warburton and Tipuric around. Tom Youngs in particular needs a big shift at smashing those two away from the tackle area.

The key points about the NZ game for me were that we played smart and with intensity.

Our defense was excellent throughout and most important of all we found a way to get back on top when NZ turned on the afterburners.

So the preparation for Saturday is all about making sure the team keep their heads and dont panic when the Welsh get their big runners moving, which will happen at some point in the match. Its something that didnt happen against Italy - but I guess they knew that they had done enough by that point to win however unconvincingly.

I do believe we will play much more like we did against France than we did against Italy. I also believe that Wales will have to play a lot better than they have so far this 6N to win - but that they have shown that they can do in the past. Its a tough tough game to call.

Poorfour wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

lostinwales wrote:Almost completely off topic but living as I did in Mumbles it was quite shocking the number of English father Welsh mother kids there were about. Generally the couples had met elsewhere and then came back to the mother's land to raise the kids.

Well welsh women are exceptional and the Gower peninsula is one of britains treasures, it all makes good sense to me.

Where have you moved to?

You can take the valleys out of the girl, but you can't take the girl out of the valleys, perhaps?

It reminded me a bit more of one of those cults that send out nice young women to ensnare men in....

Casartelli wrote:New Zealand also played into England's hands by being lured into an arm-wrestle - machismo got the better of them.

England are always virtually impossible to outmuscle - too big and strong individually and (especially) collectively. Their team work is always exceptional.

Hopefully Wales will spend some time watching the Italy/England tapes, rather than the AB game.

Yes I agree hopefully Wales will spend all their time watching the England/Italy tapes. Of course don't take into account that the Youngs-Farrell combo will be back in place.

Personally if I was Welsh I would focus more on the England-France game because Farrell wasn't as assured that day. Use your extra flanker to wind up Farrell.

England should look at the NZ but also the Scotland game too. People forget that England played really well vs the Scots -scored 4 tries but could have been more in my opinion. If England play like they did in those two games they'll beat Wales. They played with structure,precision,good pressure etc.

Ultimately it's up to the forwards to give the backs a decent platform.