John Cena....

by Guest Tue May 03, 2011 10:14 am

First topic message reminder :

Now, this is gonna be a mini rant, so Miky, you should probably shield your eyes.......

But, after Extreme Rules i've started to question; Is there anything they won't do to stop people booing Cena?

Having him announce the death of Bin Laden and then make a spectacle of it on RAW just smacks of trying to get him more over with the people. All this rubbish about hustle, loyalty and respect is just plain annoying now. Granted the OBL stuff is a big deal, but why him? Why not Vince? Or HHH? Just because he is Superman he gets rammed down our throats.

I respect his commitment to the business and what he does but i'm seriously bored of him now.

by theanimal316 Tue May 03, 2011 1:33 pm

Apologies for that mis info KB I am currently living in the US and only put on the news after the PPV and it seemed to be 'breaking news' at that time, my bad. The point still remains though. With his connection to the forces and winning the belt he should ave announced that. I also think he did it in a dignified way, without glorifying Bin Laden's death. The way Raw started with the Rock last night and pledging allegiance to the flag was going overboard.

by legendkillar Tue May 03, 2011 1:35 pm

The WWE needs a 1997 Stone Cold Steve Austin to feud with Cena

by Guest Tue May 03, 2011 1:38 pm

theanimal316 wrote:Apologies for that mis info KB I am currently living in the US and only put on the news after the PPV and it seemed to be 'breaking news' at that time, my bad. The point still remains though. With his connection to the forces and winning the belt he should ave announced that. I also think he did it in a dignified way, without glorifying Bin Laden's death. The way Raw started with the Rock last night and pledging allegiance to the flag was going overboard.

No worries mate.

I get what you're saying but to me it seemed over the top and pretty needless. If it was that big a deal then i would've had Vinnie Mac announce it to end the show with the roster on the stage.

Same with RAW last night, i don't agree with the pledge stuff either.

by Holymiky Tue May 03, 2011 1:41 pm

Why would i not wan't to see it? I said i would support him no matter what. I do see that his involvement in storylines usually see him becoming better off but during that storyline the person is usually put over a fair amount to me. See Batista. It's not Cena's fault he wanted to quit after it so he had to win really...The feud sort of came out of nowhere anyway to start with.

by David Tails Tue May 03, 2011 1:49 pm

Holymiky wrote:
King Beer wrote:
Holymiky wrote:
King Beer wrote:They had proper factiosn as well back then, something the WWE is lacking.

:cena:

I know i am a massive Cena fan right and it sounds bias but i do think alot of the IWC are unfair to him and i don't think i'm the only one who thinks this. Lately more than anything it's been raw critisism towards him but most of it isn't his fault but people blame him it seems.

Yeah i would enjoy him nonetheless but a character refresh could do wonders and i agree with that, Heel turn or not i would still support him as much as i do. I just can't see it happening and it's hard to turn him heel especially when all he stands for what be turned on it's head and it would be hard for anyone to believe, mainly kids, that he was a bad guy because they have been fed alot of information about him outside of the company. It would really have to be something phenomenal and out of this world that people believed he was the bad guy, forever how long he were going to be a heel for.

In the mean time...Hustle, Loyalty and Respect!

:cena:

Unfortunately you are blinded by the Cena 'persona'. You are one of these who believes it would be oh so difficult to turn him heel when actually it would be the easiest thing in the world to do.

I don't agree that it's Cena's fault that the company has become stale on a main event front but he's not completely innocent. He's had chances to elevate people, he could've stepped aside and let someone else run with the ball, he's the locker room leader and tight with Vince, he can easily make himself heard. But he chooses not to.

He's not Batman, he's not a real life superhero, he isn't going to save the world but for whatever reason he and the BoD seem to think that he's somehow helping people. That he's some sort of beacon to the unappreciated masses. He's not. He's a wrestler. A very average one.

My point is that it will be hard, i didn't say it was impossible hence the fact i said that the Nexus storyline could of been good. I'm not blinded to him at all, i like his character, i've always been interested in Cena's characters. He plays them well. I don't think Cena is to blame, if the WWE let him put someone over i think he would. I don't like it when my opinion seems to be brushed aside just because i am a fan and i would prefer someone to discuss it who wasn't a Cena fan because of how people think i'm blinded by it. I ALWAYS look into peoples opinions. See Miz. I've said it before, never used to like him he used to annoy me then he has started to impress me further and further and my mate likes him and i looked into it and gave him a chance especially after reading some peoples opinions of him on 606 and i do think he has improved alot.

Did you say that turning him with Nexus wouldn't have been a good idea because they weren't recognised enough names? Are you now retracting that statement and saying that it could have been done then?

Miky he is partly to blame. You cannot tell me that Cena has been the top man for so long and doesn't have enough pull in the dressing room to get stuff done. he had enough pull to try and get Evan Bourne a push. That should mean he has enough creative control and influence to pick and choose his opponents and outcomes.

by Holymiky Tue May 03, 2011 1:55 pm

I'm not retracting anything at all.

What i'm saying is that he could of turned heel with Nexus, pretty sure i have said that on the other 606 too, go figure DT.

I'm not saying as top guy he don't have pull in the dressing room but we would of heard about it by now if any major decisions were made to do with Cena, the IWC are just waiting to dish the dirt.

by Guest Tue May 03, 2011 1:55 pm

Holymiky wrote:Why would i not wan't to see it? I said i would support him no matter what. I do see that his involvement in storylines usually see him becoming better off but during that storyline the person is usually put over a fair amount to me. See Batista. It's not Cena's fault he wanted to quit after it so he had to win really...The feud sort of came out of nowhere anyway to start with.

What do you mean see Batista? Last time he feuded with Batista it was leading up to Batista leaving the WWE!?

As DT said, Cena can pick and choose. Rey Mysterio gets alot of stick, yet he handpicked Cody to feud with and allowed Rhodes to win at WM.

by Holymiky Tue May 03, 2011 1:57 pm

Batista was looking strong throughout the feud, yes granted Cena won the title at WM but Batista was leaving eventually anyway and it was a perfect one to let him leave.

by theundisputedY2D2 Tue May 03, 2011 2:00 pm

Paul Heyman tells a story about Terry Funk back in the old ECW where the Funker was looking around the locker room and saying to Paul "Let me work with that guy, I'll make him...........or him, oh boy I'll make him..........and him! Let me do something with him!"

Point being, as DT says Cena is in a position to at the very least say that he wants to work with someone in hopes of building them up, like Funk wanted to do back in ECW with various talents.

Not saying Cena should be offering to job to everyone left, right and centre but he's got enough political clout to be able to try and raise some other guys up to the main event level. He (supposedly) went to bat for Evan Bourne and there were other guys he was high on at that time (Danieslon, Kaval) but I haven't seen anything since Bourne's mini-push to suggest that Cena has the inclination to do something similar again.

by David Tails Tue May 03, 2011 2:02 pm

Holymiky wrote:
King Beer wrote:
Holymiky wrote: :cena:

I just think turning him Heel though would make people want to cheer him again, depending on how they did it and what sort of impact it would have on his character of course.

No, they would continue booing him, Miky. If they turn him heel he has to get rid of the 'Superman' gimmick and become a proper heel. The kids will boo him, the fans will boo him and everyone will be happy.

They missed the biggest thing going by not turning him heel with The Nexus.

Trouble is with Nexus they were all new people within the WWE pretty much wouldn't that have a drastic effect on how over Cena's Heel turn is meaning fans would be confused?

Miky, could you possibly drop the attitude?

"Go figure DT"

Is there any need for that? I made a relevant point. The above quote proves that you spoke negatively about turning him with Nexus. So when I ask if you want to retract it..I'm being serious.

You are forever claiming I troll your posts, yet you are the one that fires in with the attitude. Stop the kiddy Poopie and answer the points I'm putting to you.

by Holymiky Tue May 03, 2011 2:05 pm

I answered you and there is no attitude to drop.

I worry honestly if you think saying go figure is attitude.

by David Tails Tue May 03, 2011 2:09 pm

So the fact that you answer everyone elses questions without such retorts added in doesn't show a continued attitude towards me?

I would say it does.

So you don't think that speaking negatively about the potential Nexus turn then saying you said it would be a good idea is contradictory?

by Holymiky Tue May 03, 2011 2:11 pm

When did i say it was a bad idea?

I said trouble is, every option may have a flaw, it does not mean it's a bad idea. That's how i look at it anyway.

by legendkillar Tue May 03, 2011 2:11 pm

Cena has got the clout to push guys in the WWE if he wanted. Most famously Steve Austin in his day refused to put over Jeff Jarrett and Brock Lesnar and he could've.

It's not like the fans hate Cena for crying out loud. I would like to see Cena put the WWE product first before his status of 'top guy' and sometimes that may even mean taking a backseat to other guys and letting them run with the ball because I am sick of the whole John Cena 20th title reign for nothing.

by Guest Tue May 03, 2011 2:11 pm

Holymiky wrote:Batista was looking strong throughout the feud, yes granted Cena won the title at WM but Batista was leaving eventually anyway and it was a perfect one to let him leave.

I think that feud was only booked that way because Batista was leaving. It's a poor example.

by Holymiky Tue May 03, 2011 2:13 pm

King Beer wrote:
Holymiky wrote:Batista was looking strong throughout the feud, yes granted Cena won the title at WM but Batista was leaving eventually anyway and it was a perfect one to let him leave.

I think that feud was only booked that way because Batista was leaving. It's a poor example.

I don't think it is.

I think it's a fair example if of course you take out the fact Batista was leaving.

by Guest Tue May 03, 2011 2:14 pm

Holymiky wrote:
King Beer wrote:
Holymiky wrote:Batista was looking strong throughout the feud, yes granted Cena won the title at WM but Batista was leaving eventually anyway and it was a perfect one to let him leave.

I think that feud was only booked that way because Batista was leaving. It's a poor example.

I don't think it is.

I think it's a fair example if of course you take out the fact Batista was leaving.

But he was leaving, Miky. Hence the reason it's a poor example.

by Holymiky Tue May 03, 2011 2:17 pm

Surely fans can see that the other superstar still look strong even though they lose at the end, why else would they boo them?

by Guest Tue May 03, 2011 2:20 pm

Holymiky wrote:Surely fans can see that the other superstar still look strong even though they lose at the end, why else would they boo them?

What?!

What point are you trying to make, Miky? I'm confused?

by legendkillar Tue May 03, 2011 2:20 pm

Fans boo Cena because he is always at the top of the bill and his gimmick at the moment is far to weak to command that spot. When he lost to Miz at WM27, someone else should've been given the opportunity to step up to the plate. I don't agree with re-matches from WM to roll into the next PPV. Now we have Cena as champ and who will feud with him now that hasn't already been squashed by him

by Fernando Tue May 03, 2011 2:22 pm

when was the last time cena got beat cleanly in a ppv match?

anyone know ?

by Holymiky Tue May 03, 2011 2:25 pm

That Batista was booed cos of the "damage" he dealt to Cena during the feud. He was clearly a bad guy made to look unbeatable and of course due to Cena's Gimmick he beat Batista at Mania, but there was no other option anyway.

by theundisputedY2D2 Tue May 03, 2011 2:27 pm

fernando wrote:when was the last time cena got beat cleanly in a ppv match?

anyone know ?

Wrestlemania 24 maybe? That's the only one that immediately springs to mind.

by legendkillar Tue May 03, 2011 2:27 pm

The point the posters are trying to make is that Cena not having the WWE Title or being a heel is going to weaken his position with the fans. If anything it will make it stronger as he can develop his gimmick. It's not like that if he drops the title or turns heel that fans we commit mass suicide or lose the hope in fight between good and evil. It's entertainment for crying out loud. I would like a whole calendar year by where Cena is not top face or in a WWE title match. Not looking likely at the moment

by David Tails Tue May 03, 2011 2:28 pm

Didn't Batista lose to Cena in 3 or 4 consecutive PPV's prior to leaving? That isn't exactly "looking strong" to me.

by theanimal316 Tue May 03, 2011 2:30 pm

Was it against Batista Fernando at SS a few years back? I remember losses but no other clean ones.

Cena is no different than any other top guy of their time. Take HBK, the IWC darling. He famously refused to work witht he Rock, let alone put him voer. Yet he still gets so much love from the IWC. Granted he may have changed since he came back in 2002 but Rock is still bitter about that to this day. And I bet if Cena was asked to lose cleanly to the Miz or ADR, he would do it.

by Holymiky Tue May 03, 2011 2:31 pm

No i don't think so.

I can't remember the great details but i don't think he won any if not hardly any because of the constant "you have never beaten me, you won't beat me" stuff.

by Guest Tue May 03, 2011 2:35 pm

Holymiky wrote:No i don't think so.

I can't remember the great details but i don't think he won any if not hardly any because of the constant "you have never beaten me, you won't beat me" stuff.

Batista lost at WM26, Over the Limit and Extreme Rules.

by David Tails Tue May 03, 2011 2:40 pm

King Beer wrote:
Holymiky wrote:No i don't think so.

I can't remember the great details but i don't think he won any if not hardly any because of the constant "you have never beaten me, you won't beat me" stuff.

Batista lost at WM26, Over the Limit and Extreme Rules.

Right so he wasn't booked strong at all then. Well...I wouldn't take losing at those consecutive PPV's as strong.

by Guest Tue May 03, 2011 2:41 pm

David Tails wrote:
King Beer wrote:
Holymiky wrote:No i don't think so.

I can't remember the great details but i don't think he won any if not hardly any because of the constant "you have never beaten me, you won't beat me" stuff.

Batista lost at WM26, Over the Limit and Extreme Rules.

Right so he wasn't booked strong at all then. Well...I wouldn't take losing at those consecutive PPV's as strong.

Being duck taped to a ring post and dropped on a car is hardly strong.

by bernard black Tue May 03, 2011 2:56 pm

Batista went into the feud strong, but by the end of it he was coming off the back of 3 consecutive PPV humiliations and was having to be pushed to the ring in a wheelchair, Ric Flair-style. No way did Cena make him look strong, and it's horrible booking to crush a guy of Batista's size / aura like that - but that is the WWE way when you leave.

by Guest Tue May 03, 2011 3:06 pm

bernard black wrote:Batista went into the feud strong, but by the end of it he was coming off the back of 3 consecutive PPV humiliations and was having to be pushed to the ring in a wheelchair, Ric Flair-style. No way did Cena make him look strong, and it's horrible booking to crush a guy of Batista's size / aura like that - but that is the WWE way when you leave.

Completely agree. Batista was constantly billed as an 'Animal' and as you say, given his size he should've been made to look better. But he went out with a whimper.

by David Tails Tue May 03, 2011 3:10 pm

This is what makes you wonder about WWE. They generally do screw people over when they leave. Yet never leave it for if they come back. Or are we expected to forget the pathetic way that he left?

by Fernando Tue May 03, 2011 3:10 pm

anyone think they've penciled in mason ryan as batista to bargain his contract down?
just look at the way he destroyed kane and big show and his outfit rather similar.

by legendkillar Tue May 03, 2011 3:17 pm

He does look impressive Mason Ryan. Only a matter of time before he is squashed by Cena.

by Fernando Tue May 03, 2011 3:21 pm

if its true they offered him a new contract they could bargain him down with it with ryan, if you won't sign we'll market him instead cos he certainly has the look of batista

by theundisputedY2D2 Tue May 03, 2011 3:22 pm

They should have a match between Batista and Mason Ryan and just as they go to lock up, the lights go out, a bolt of lightning hits the ring and when the lights come back up Batista and Ryan have 'merged' to become one Super Animal!

Oh wait, they were gonna do that idea for something else weren't they?

Never mind.

by legendkillar Tue May 03, 2011 3:24 pm

Have Mason Ryan and Batista as a tag team and managed by Rico!!

by theanimal316 Tue May 03, 2011 3:30 pm

Mason Ryan makes Batista look like Bret Hart or Kurt Angle. Apart from being huge I don't see what else he brings...

by bernard black Tue May 03, 2011 3:41 pm

Surprised WWE haven't marketed Ryan as Batista's younger brother, they look that much alike. If they can get away with calling The Undertaker and Kane "brothers" it really wouldn't be that far-fetched, and if Batista does get revealed as the Mystery GM an obvious storyline could ensue where he does whatever it takes to either get his brother to the top or scupper his monster run. I don't think Ryan would be ready for that sort of push yet though.

by David Tails Tue May 03, 2011 3:45 pm

Brothers from another mother? You would have to account for the fact Ryan is clearly Welsh.

by bernard black Tue May 03, 2011 3:47 pm

David Tails wrote:Brothers from another mother? You would have to account for the fact Ryan is clearly Welsh.

God, I hope they don't ask him to put on a Layla-esque faux American accent.

by theundisputedY2D2 Tue May 03, 2011 3:47 pm

Batista could put on a Welsh accent, which he'd botch to sound Indian.

My God, that's it!

Indian Batista!

Why didn't we think of this before?

by JoshSansom Tue May 03, 2011 3:49 pm

Separated at birth maybe?
I can still see a Celtic Connection stable forming with Sheamus, McIntyre and Ryan at sometime in the future

by bernard black Tue May 03, 2011 3:51 pm

theundisputedY2D2 wrote:Batista could put on a Welsh accent, which he'd botch to sound Indian.

My God, that's it!

Indian Batista!

Why didn't we think of this before?

Haha, when the crowd get on his back his new catchphrase can be "kiss my chuddies, man!" (Goodness Gracious Me-style)

by theundisputedY2D2 Tue May 03, 2011 4:08 pm

by JoshSansom Tue May 03, 2011 5:00 pm

How long unit JR claims that Mason Ryan grew up on the "mean streets of Carmarthen" or something?!

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